Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Funerals to Begin for Dallas Police Officers; 3 Arrested in 'Credible Threat' to Harm Officers; Trump Calls for Justice Ginsburg to Resign. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 13, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

[07:00:02] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Three of the city's finest will be laid to rest this morning.

CHIEF DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT: There's no greater love than these five men.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We cannot match their courage, but we can strive to match their devotion.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These slain officers were the best among us.

OBAMA: I believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The police are the best of our society.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Weapons of war have no place on the streets of America.

TRUMP: The greatest achievement of Hillary Clinton was getting out of this problem with e-mails. Houdini couldn't have gotten out.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She must become our next president.

TRUMP: You can either say governor or vice president.

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We'll see what happens. It's a little bit like "The Apprentice."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CUOMO: A little bit like "The Apprentice." Good morning, and welcome back to your NEW DAY. Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow and I are here for you. We are dealing with the hardest of moments in Dallas. The final farewell for fallen officers there. Three of the city's finest laid to rest this morning. President Obama appealing for unity as the national divide between black and blue appears to be widening.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All of this as we are learning authorities in Louisiana have foiled a credible plot to kill police officers. They took three people into custody. And the arrests come amid growing tension over deadly police shootings of two black men over the last week.

We begin our coverage this morning with our Sara Sidner. She's live for us in Dallas. Good morning, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy and Chris.

You know, this city is in mourning. And we heard yesterday from two presidents, President George W. Bush, and President Barack Obama. And both of them had a very clear message to the country. The country, they said, must unite.

Today there will be unity. It will be filled with sorrow and support for the families of the three officers who will be laid to rest today. Brent Thompson, who was with DART, the first Dallas area rapid transit officer to be killed in the line of duty, will be laid to rest today. Michael Smith with Dallas Police Department, and Lorne Ahrens. All of them laid to rest today as the city mourns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OBAMA: We are not as divided as we seem.

SIDNER (voice-over): President Obama urging the country to unite at a memorial service for the five police officers killed in Dallas.

OBAMA: I know how far we've come against impossible odds. Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime.

SIDNER: The president trying once again to console the nation.

OBAMA: My faith tells me that they did not die in vain. I believe our sorrow can make us a better country. I believe our righteous anger can be transformed into more justice and more peace.

SIDNER: For the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting, the president visibly frustrated by this reality.

OBAMA: I have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. I've hugged too many families who've lost a loved one to senseless violence.

SIDNER: President Obama acknowledging both the plight of police officers and the grievances of the community they serve.

OBAMA: Insisting we do better to root out racial bias is not an attack on cops, but an effort to live up to our highest ideals.

We cannot match the sacrifices made by officers Zamarripa and Ahrens, Krol, Smith, and Thompson, but surely we can try to match their sense of service.

SIDNER: Those five officers represented by these empty seats, draped in uniform, hats, and folded American flags.

BUSH: These slain officers were the best among us.

SIDNER: Calling Dallas home, former President George W. Bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all.

BUSH: We recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity.

SIDNER: The city's top cop, David Brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis. The chief honoring his fallen comrades.

BROWN: There's no greater love than this. That these five men gave their lives for all of us.

SIDNER: Reciting lyrics from Stevie Wonder's "Loving You Always."

BROWN: "Until the ocean covers every mountain, and I've got to say, always, I'll be loving you always."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[07:05:12] SIDNER: While there are protests that have been going on around the country, anti-police brutality protests, here there hasn't been any single major protest since Thursday, the fateful day that took the lives of five officers -- Poppy, Chris.

HARLOW: Sara, thank you so much. Live for us in Dallas this morning.

And with tension already high after the police shooting death of Alton Sterling last week in Baton Rouge, police there today announcing they have foiled a plot aimed at killing police officers. Our Polo Sandoval is live in Baton Rouge this morning with more.

What did they find?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, we know this case has very quickly evolved from a local pawnshop break-in to what authorities here on the ground consider a credible threat to police officers here in Baton Rouge.

I want to take you back to this past weekend when authorities say a group of individuals broke into that local pawnshop and made off, or believed to have made with at least eight handguns. Throughout the course of the investigation, they were able to recover most of the weapons and also able to arrest at least three individuals, one of which, 17-year-old Antonio Thomas, told investigators they planned to, quote, "look for bullets to kill police."

Investigators are still following up on that threat to see if they, in fact, did intend to do so. But what this is doing is obviously increasing this sense of awareness among law enforcement, particularly after Dallas. What it's also doing, Poppy, it's also explaining why we have seen such a significant police presence during the -- during the initial protests that have followed Alton Sterling's shooting.

I want you to hear directly from the sheriff why they've increased the police presence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SID J. GAUTREAUX III, SHERIFF, EAST BATON ROUGE: What you saw in the response is because of the very real and viable threats against law enforcement. And all I can say beyond that is look what happened in Dallas. A very peaceful protest, and then some crazy madman did what he did. So I think the threat speaks for itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SANDOVAL: The sheriff there saying that Dallas is the obvious reminder of why they have to remain vigilant right now. And finally, Chris, we do to understand that they are following up on another threat, an unrelated one, in which an officer reported being followed by an individual.

But again, investigators haven't released a whole lot, but it gives you a sense of why people are on edge, several days after the shooting of Alton Sterling.

CUOMO: Scary any way you look at it, no matter what it reflects.

Polo Sandoval, we'll check back with you in a little bit.

Let's talk about the threats facing police with Commissioner Charles Ramsey. He has been the head of the police departments in both Philadelphia and D.C. And he's the past chairman of President Obama's Task Force on 21st Century Policing.

Chief, what do you think? Do you think that officers are under a unique and severe threat right now because of what's been going on?

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER CHAIRMAN, TASK FORCE ON 21ST CENTURY POLICY: Well, I think there a threat that's out there. And how serious it is, I don't think anybody really knows, but certainly, it's perceived as being very serious.

And in light of Dallas, obviously, we have to take these threats very seriously. You do have a lot of unstable people out there that will take advantage of a point in time when we do have this conflict, unfortunately, in some cities between police and community. And some harm could come to police officers, and some harm could also come to them. So it's just not a good time and a good situation.

CUOMO: How worried should we be about the conventions? You've said, "I don't think they're going to go without some incident taking place." I don't want to give more weight to your words that you intend. How do you see it? Well, I mean, I think we need to be concerned, and that's not to say

that anything is going to happen. Obviously, we're going to have protests. And that's good. That's fine. I mean, protests are healthy for this country.

My concern is always whether or not someone will take advantage of a situation like they did in Dallas to cause harm. Hopefully that does not happen. The secret service, the Cleveland Police Department, the Philadelphia Police Department, all those agencies involved are monitoring this very, very closely. And I'm sure they'll take whatever steps they need to take to avoid any kind of violence from taking place.

But you have to be concerned about it. But hopefully, they go off without a hitch.

CUOMO: Does open carry matter, or is the threat profile the same whether or not it's legal to carry the weapon or not?

RAMSEY: Well, open carry does cause confusion. I mean, you know, when people -- you don't know the intent of an individual.

CUOMO: Obviously, Ohio has open carry. That's why I'm asking, like Texas. So...

RAMSEY: Well, yes. And I mean, so if someone shows up at the convention or a protest, and they've got an AK-47 slung over their shoulder, they've got a .45 on their hip, yes, you're going to be concerned because you don't know the intention of that individual.

And it's not just the policemen that feel that. How do the other protesters feel? Because they don't know one another either for the most part. So yes, it's an issue.

[07:10:04] CUOMO: And when you look at where things stand today, there are big questions circling in the air about are we unified, are we not? Can you support the police and at the same time feel that the shootings of black men need to be investigated and that there's a problem there, as well? Can you balance these interests?

RAMSEY: Well, you have to balance the interests. Listen, you have to support police, because the majority of police do the job well. But we've got some police officers whose actions are inconsistent with department policy, inconsistent with the law, and we have to investigate those thoroughly and take the appropriate action.

And I think we've lost the trust, largely, to be able to do that. That's why I think independent investigations are so critically important if we do have these kinds of cases.

But we've got to be able to take a step back, take a deep breath, and bridge the gap and come together. We need one another. And so to continue down this path, which is right now, I think, very scary, because there are so many extremes on both sides. I mean, you can hear some of the protesters saying some very extreme things. You hear some cops saying some very extreme things. Most people are in the middle. That voice needs to be heard. That

way we can have some thoughtful discussion.

CUOMO: I hope you're right that most people are in the middle, because right now there don't seem to be a lot of open minds.

Let me ask you something. The president puts together this panel after the last rash of shootings that we went through, and you get all these recommendations. Very few municipalities have adopted them.

You were the head of that board. There are good ideas on there. They're not, you know, hugely burdensome ideas for forces to take on. How do you make more people take the good ideas?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, that's part of the challenge. We have 18,000 law enforcement agencies in the United States, at least approximately 18,000. I don't know if anybody knows the exact number, quite frankly. That's far too many. That's a problem in and of itself.

I would like to see a goal that in ten years maybe that number is cut in half. We need to look at more regionalization of departments, more standardization in terms of our training, our policies and procedures and the like, so that we can get everyone on the same page in terms of how they handle not just incidents of deadly force but anything that a police officer happens to get involved in.

I think there needs to be more consistency. So until we have that, it's not going to be as widespread as we'd like to see, but we've made an enormous amount of progress. Right now we've got 15 cities, large cities in the United States, that we're providing some additional support to in terms of helping them implement the task force recommendations.

I've been to numerous meetings and other task force members have, as well, talking to chiefs, talking to sheriffs, talking to community folks about the task force report and helping them implement the recommendations. So a lot of progress has been made, but a lot more needs to be made.

CUOMO: Charles Ramsey, thank you very much for your perspective.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Tonight, the big questions are in the air, as I just said, and they need to be talked about. We have a special two- hour town hall, "Black, White & Blue: America 2016," on the tensions between police and minority communities. Don Lemon is going to moderate, 10 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN -- Poppy.

HARLOW: Also, Donald Trump tangling with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He's calling for her to resign this morning. In a tweet overnight, he's calling her a disgrace after she labeled him a faker in a CNN interview. Our Sara Murray is live this morning in Indianapolis with more.

This is a first. That's for sure. SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It is certainly unusual,

Poppy, but Donald Trump has had a number of unusual political foes since he jumped into this campaign arena. He's fought with most of the leadership of the Republican Party. He fought with the pope. And now he's on to a Supreme Court justice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): Donald Trump intensifying his battle with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Trump now calling on Ginsburg to step down, tweeting early this morning that Justice Ginsburg "embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot -- resign."

In an interview with CNN, Justice Ginsburg blasted Trump as a "faker" who "really has an ego."

House Speaker Paul Ryan addressing the controversy in a CNN town hall last night.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. That shows bias to me.

MURRAY: Meanwhile, Trump playing to the hometown crowd last night, coyly hinting Indiana Governor Mike Pence might get the V.P. nod.

TRUMP: I don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president. Who the hell knows?

MURRAY: As Trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick is coming this week. And Pence is aiming to prove his prowess on the campaign trail.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.

[06:15:02] MURRAY: The vice-presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail, a string of shootings claiming police and civilians alike.

CLINTON: These tragedies tear at our soul.

MURRAY: Clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias.

CLINTON: Get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. The tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents.

MURRAY: While Trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of police.

TRUMP: The hostility against our police has to end.

MURRAY: Trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter, who killed five police officers in Dallas.

TRUMP: The other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. Marches all over the United States and tough marches, anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, in spite of that last Trump comment that's already drawing some blowback, because it appears entirely unsupported by facts, there are still plenty of reasons for the Trump campaign to wake up in good spirits this morning.

For one, a new round of swing state polls shows Trump and Clinton are essentially tied in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

And secondly, Trump continues to whip up speculation about the veepstakes. He made an unplanned overnight here in Indianapolis yesterday evening. His campaign says he's still expected to head to California later today for fundraisers. We're standing by to see whether that is, in fact, the case.

Back to you guys.

CUOMO: I've got to tell you, these tight polls that are out now showing the battleground states up for grabs, that's going to add to Trump's momentum, as well. So who is out of the line -- out of line in the war of words between Donald Trump and Justice Ginsburg? And what will their public feud mean for the campaign? We're going to discuss Trump v. Ginsburg next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back to NEW DAY. Donald Trump has a new rival in Washington: Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. He's calling for her to resign this morning after she called him a, quote, "faker" in a CNN interview. Let's discuss all of this supreme showdown with Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich; and CNN political analyst and editor in chief of "The Daily Beast," John Avlon.

I should note, John is Jackie's boss. And so -- but feel free to fight in this.

CUOMO: So let's see if Jackie disagrees with him once.

HARLOW: Let's begin.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": I think John can attest.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, no problem with disagreements here among fellow beasts. HARLOW: Let's -- let me start with you, John, just about the

political implications of what Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out and said in this fascinating interview with CNN, saying he's a faker, he has a big ego, he has, you know, essentially no filter.

Paul Ryan condemned it last night in the town hall here on CNN. Do you think there's any real political implication, though?

AVLON: Long-term political implication, probably not. But look, I mean, all those things may be true, and it's also true that it's totally inappropriate for a Supreme Court justice to say. There is a reason that justices are supposed to stay out of partisan politics.

And it's troubling enough when the wife of, for example, Clarence Thomas gets involved in partisan politics as a Tea Party activist. But for a sitting justice to weigh in like a commentator in this presidential campaign is totally inappropriate. It's beneath the court. It's beneath Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

CUOMO: Jackie, look, we know that the idea that Supreme Court justices are apolitical is a farce. All right. We go through it every time there's a confirmation process where we allow these men and women to go up before Congress and just really, you know, give only their best selves. We just know it's not the truth.

However, this is -- we've never seen this in our lifetime. People don't do this when they're on the court. And it's hard to justify on any level. People may agree with what she said, if they're Clinton supporters, but they can't see this as the right thing to do. Can you take the other side of that proposition, or is that just the truth?

KUCINICH: I mean, this is -- their job is to stay out -- stay above the fray on things like this. So that's why it's so shocking that she came forward and said this.

But you know, Joan Biskupic, who was interviewing Ruth Bader Ginsburg, notes she's someone who's does biographies for all of the justices. And she knows that she's known, Ruth Bader Ginsburg is known as a very blunt person who speaks her mind. And, you know, maybe she went a little too far here, or maybe a lot too far when weighing in on the presidential election.

AVLON: But I think it's an example of how this election is making us all a little crazy. We're not being our best selves. There's an absence of statesmanship across the board.

HARLOW: No, I think that's a really important point. This is perhaps a pre-eminent example of it.

AVLON: I think it is a pre-eminent example when you go to basic constitutional principles like separation of powers. I mean, the other thing we saw yesterday is a bunch of eminent historians like David McCullough and Ken Burns come down off their mountaintop to say, you know what? Seen with the eyes of history, this election is a departure from the normal and condemning Donald Trump in very uncommon terms. CUOMO: Look, there is no rule. OK? Poppy was mentioning this

earlier. There's no rule. There's no right; there's no wrong in terms of here's the code of conduct. But they don't do this for a reason.

AVLON: A really good reason.

CUOMO: And I think that -- now here's -- what's your take on this? Who's more wrong? Right? Donald Trump is -- has a hair trigger in response to all critics. If they hit him with attack, he hits them back with a spike. You know, that's how he is.

But who's more wrong here? His reaction, which is pretty much par for the course, or her as a Supreme Court justice going down to the level of political commentary?

AVLON: First of all, I want to congratulate you for coming up with the ultimate drinking game for this election. Who's more wrong?

CUOMO: It's become my life, John. It's become my life.

AVLON: And in this case, I will go with Ruth Bader Ginsburg is more wrong, because she's a Supreme Court justice, and Donald Trump is Trump. You know, he is the caricature of himself who just sort of spews without filter. A Supreme Court justice is supposed to be the opposite of that. So in the game of who's more wrong, I'm going RBG.

[07:25:17] HARLOW: All right. Let's talk veepstakes. Jackie Kucinich, to you -- to you, when we look at the three men, it's looking like Gingrich, Christie, or Pence. Pence is the safe choice. And yes, Trump stayed in Indiana last night. You choose why. But he's the safe choice. And that seems so anti-Trump. But you still think it's going to be Pence?

KUCINICH: Until you crawl inside Donald Trump's head, I don't think you can say for sure who this is actually going to be. I don't think that he knows at this point.

HARLOW: Really?

CUOMO: He said that. He said that on the podium. Remember, he said he'll be your V.P., he'll be your governor. Who knows?

HARLOW: Who knows?

KUCINICH: She really thinks he does.

AVLON: That was just a creepy "Being John Malkovich" image, by the way, crawling into Donald Trump's head. Yes, I mean, Jackie, thinks it's Mike Pence. And there's a wisdom to that, in terms of uniting the party. And you get someone who's a former radio show host.

KUCINICH: But also...

AVLON: Yes...

KUCINICH: He was in Congress.

AVLON: Someone who's in Congress, someone who connects with the base.

Look, Christie and Gingrich are much tighter with Donald Trump personally. And that kind of loyalty and chemistry probably matters more.

KUCINICH: He has better chemistry with Trump.

CUOMO: Here's a bold suggestion. You know how we know that this -- if Trump wanted any of these guys, you know how you'd know? Because he would have picked them already. You know, this is not a man who allows a deliberate process to play out and "Let me hear from everybody. Let me calculate it."

HARLOW: There are a few that no one knows about?

CUOMO: You know, if he had a guy that he wanted, he would have picked him already.

AVLON: He may have already picked in private a long time ago. This is reality TV show rollout, folks. Don't, you know...

CUOMO: You think he's playing us?

AVLON: Oh, I think Donald Trump's entire campaign is a reality TV show punking the American people.

CUOMO: But that -- putting that brazen criticism to the side for a second, this process could be playing out. He could have a lot of different minds. They could be testing; they could be polling.

AVLON: It is entirely possible that one wing of the Trump campaign is doing that. Jackie, what's your wisdom?

KUCINICH: You know, I think there's been a lot of trial balloons akin to, you know, someone walking outside and releasing a bunch of balloons. I mean, we were talking about Michael Flynn last weekend. But he came out and said he was pro-choice. So, you know, that -- he was taken off the -- off the table. So really, until you know what Donald Trump is thinking, we don't know for sure who the veep is.

HARLOW: All right. Jackie, John, thank you both.

To this now. So why is Donald Trump waging a war with a Supreme Court justice? She actually started the fight, as Chris rightly pointed out. We'll ask his campaign about the feud with the justice next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)