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President Obama and Former President George W. Bush Speak in Dallas; Investigators in Baton Rouge Discover Possible Plot against Police; Trump Calls for Justice Ginsburg to Resign. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 13, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, July 13th, 8:00 in the east. Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow and I are here for you. And we are talking about Dallas this morning because it is in a state of mourning. Three of the city's finest are going to be buried. Thousands are expected to honor these fallen heroes. President Obama consoling mourners and challenge the shaken nation to find the character to unite.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: This as chilling new details emerge about a plot to kill police officers in Louisiana. Three people now in custody as tension grows over the deadly police shootings of two black men in just the last week. We begin our coverage, though, this morning with our Sara Sidner live in Dallas the morning of these three funerals for the fallen officers. Good morning, Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. Let's start with the names of those officers who will be laid to rest today. It is Brent Thompson, he was the DART officer who was shot and killed right outside at El Centro College. He is the first officer to lose his life in the line of duty from DART. And then you have Dallas police officer Michael Smith and Dallas police officer Lorne Ahrens. They will be laid to rest.

We should also mention this memorial really brought together two presidents, vice presidents, senator, and the message was overwhelming -- we have to come together.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not as divided as we seem.

SIDNER: President Obama urging the country to unite at a memorial service for the five police officers killed in Dallas.

OBAMA: I know how far we've come against impossible odds. Race relations have improved dramatically in my lifetime.

SIDNER: The president trying once again to console the nation.

OBAMA: My faith tells me that they did not die in vain. I believe our sorrow can make us a better country. I believe our righteous anger can be transformed in the more justice and more peace.

SIDNER: For the 11th time in his presidency, he addressed a city reeling from another mass shooting, the president visibly frustrated by this reality.

OBAMA: I have spoken at too many memorials during the course of this presidency. I've hugged too many families who have lost a loved one to senseless violence.

SIDNER: President Obama acknowledging both the plight of police officers and are the grievances of the community they serve.

OBAMA: Insisting we do better to root out racial biases is not an attack on cops but an effort to live up to our highest ideas. We cannot match the sacrifices made by Officers Zamarripa, Ahrens, Krol, Smith, and Thompson. But surely we can try to match their sense of service.

SIDNER: Those five officers represented by these empty seats, draped in uniform, hats, and folded American flags.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: These slain officers were the best among us.

SIDNER: Calling Dallas home, former president George W. Bush offering his condolences and reminding the country of the force that unites us all.

BUSH: We recognize that we are brothers and sisters sharing the same brief moment on earth and owing each other the loyalty of our shared humanity.

(APPLAUSE)

SIDNER: The city's top cop, David Brown, receiving a standing ovation for his leadership in this crisis, the chief honoring his fallen comrades.

DAVID BROWN, DALLAS POLICE CHIEF: There's no greater love than this, that these five men gave their lives for all of us.

SIDNER: Reciting lyrics from Stevie Wonder's "I'll be Loving you Always."

BROWN: Until the ocean covers every mountain and valley, and I've got to say, always, I'll be loving you always.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: And if you have any doubt of about how people feel about the Dallas police here, this memorial, you could basically see the cars there underneath, there are two Dallas police cars, they are completely covered with flowers and balloons. And every day the crowds get larger and larger here. Poppy?

HARLOW: They do. Sara, thank you so much. Well, at the same time as we will mourn these police officers,

tensions are running high after the police shooting death of Alton Sterling in Louisiana and police in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, have foiled the plot was aimed at killing more police. Our Polo Sandoval is live in Baton Rouge with the details. What did they find, Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Poppy, as if law enforcement didn't have enough to worry about, now there is this, what investigators are following up on and considering a credible threat to law enforcement here in Baton Rouge. You have to go back to the weekend to understand what investigators are following up on.

[08:05:00] There was a pawn shop that was broken into, about eight guns that were stolen. Throughout the course of the investigation, officers were able to arrest at least three individuals and actually recover most of those weapons.

But what's disturbing here is one of the suspects, 17-year-old Antonio Thomas who is currently in custody, told investigators, quote, "We planned to look for bullets to kill police." Investigators are also trying to find out if there's possibly a fourth individual involved in what is being considered as this plot.

But there's also another threat to tell you about, something that we're working to find out more about. A police officer here in Baton Rouge reported being followed on at least one occasion. So that's also concerning to officials here on the ground, but what this is doing, Chris, it's ultimately increasing the police presence and explains why we have seen such a significant police presence as some of the protests have happened. Since Alton Sterling was shot and killed at this very parking lot last week, obviously people here on the ground, especially authorities, well aware of what happened in Dallas seven days ago.

CUOMO: And the threat is very well, Polo, because it doesn't have to be the brightest light that decides to act on it. It could be someone who is deranged or just a dumb kid. And that's why officers are on edge.

Let's bring in the deputy chief of police, of the Dallas police department and the chair of the National Black Police Association Malik Aziz, and representative from Texas, Democratic Congressman Marc Veasey. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me, especially on this all- important day. I want to play a little bit of what the chief said yesterday, because it really resonated all over the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Until the trees and seas, up, up, and fly away I'll be loving you. Until the day that eight times eight times eight times eight is four, I'll be loving you, until the day that is the day that are no more, I'll be loving you, until the day the earth starts turning right to left, I'll be loving you.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Malik, I keep hearing from people that that was a demonstration of why the chief is beloved so much and it is such an example of how he loves and how he feels about his officers, quoting the lyrics from Stevie Wonder. We also heard him a couple of days ago referring to the early commercials and beginning of the show for "Superman." What are we seeing about how this man acts?

MALIK AZIZ, DEPUTY CHIEF, DALLAS POLICE: Well, I would say, you know, I've said this before, the leadership of the mayor, Mike Rawlings, and the leadership of Chief David Brown during this time of crisis here, he's risen to the occasion to provide support for the 3,500 officers and being an example of what a police chief is supposed to be around the world. He's done that during this crisis, and he's shown what he could be and what he could do.

I think over the last three or four days, you've seen him hold press conferences, you've seen him in briefing, you've seen him, because this is a man who knows tragedy. Where his own -- his words resonate because he experienced tragedy when his own son killed a friend of mine, Craig Shaw, a fellow BPA member. So when he was telling the family, I will love you always, I could imagine that's what he was going through during his tragedy when his own son would kill a police officer.

So I think that right there is given him inner resolve and inner strength to try to find something to say to the families and the world would lose, who could lose such great men. Five great men fell in this city and four fell under his watch, which no police chief wants.

So I'll say this, you can't ever go wrong with Stevie Wonder. So he's a little unconventional, but when you say Stevie Wonder and you realize that he can give, he can quote the lyrics of Stevie Wonder and give an arousing speech, I never thought Stevie Wonder lyrics could be such a thing. But when he said "love always," that's what he was trying to tell a family what it comes down to. He just couldn't say I love you. He had to say it with Stevie Wonder lyrics to tell a family I love you and I love you always because I've experienced the same thing here, in a very different way of tragedy, but nonetheless, a very different -- I mean, a tragedy nonetheless.

CUOMO: Doesn't matter how you say it --

AZIZ: Let me ask this --

CUOMO: Go ahead.

AZIZ: Let me ask this, Chris. You know, yesterday, it was one of those days with a beautiful ceremony. And, you know, seeing former president George Bush talk about, you know, people using the worst example of people, but the best example and best intentions among themselves to the mayor of, you know, bringing the city in unity, to Chief Spiller who didn't say a word, but his presence was felt, DART police Chief Spiller, he presence was felt. It was felt at the vigil the night before.

And then the president, you know, in a balanced way, in a very balanced way, he tried to bring families who were in mourning and the world who was watching who had taken sides and not to politicize anything, but to extend the hand and saying unify, because at the very end, they held hands on stage.

[08:10:06] And it was beautiful to see the demographics, holding the hand of world leaders for the greatest country on earth, holding hands and showing that what we could be and how we could be and what was supposed to be. And we could have our differences, but one thing about it, we should end with I still love you, brother, that's how it should work.

CUOMO: Always, always. Congressman Veasey, tough task for President Obama, and one that he has had to undertake too many tis before. This is the 11th city he's visited this way. He took the trip to Dallas with the president, what can you tell us about his state of mind on the trip over?

REP. MARC VEASEY, (D) TEXAS: Well, I can tell you that me personally, I thought that it was one of the best speeches he ever gave. I really like the fact that he talked about how we're going to come together, but we have to acknowledge some of the past problems that we've had in this country in order to be able to do that.

And, you know, we talked to the president a little bit on the plane, and you could tell that he, you know, was bothered and moved by what happened in Dallas. But I just thought that it was really, as a lifelong north Texas resident, I was moved, and it was just one of the best jobs that the president has ever done in my opinion.

CUOMO: Congressman, how did you feel about the president including not just the incident in Dallas, but also what had happened in Louisiana and Minnesota as part of his comments?

VEASEY: I thought it was part of the healing process for our country. I thought that was very timely and very appropriate, and I think that the country needed to hear that.

CUOMO: Malik, what do you think about that? Members of the law enforcement community are saying, what happened in Dallas has nothing to do with what happened in Louisiana, with what happened in Minnesota. Why combine the occasions?

AZIZ: Well, in a way it doesn't have anything to do, five of my brothers fell the other night just a few blocks away from here, and it's very painful for us still and we have a painful three or four days ahead. So, yes, at the same time, it didn't have anything to do. We didn't bring that to our city. A madman killer did.

But the world is looking. The nation is experienced in these type of things. And so this is the reason, this is the reason why we're so polarized. This is the reason for the marches. This is the reason for Black Lives Matter, the reason for killing an unarmed black man.

And we have to have the compassion as law enforcement officers to understand that side. I don't have to agree with you, but I do have to understand, and I can say for even the Castile family or the Sterling family, do you think they love their children less? My mother lost a son and my brother, he wasn't much of anything during those years, but I can tell you, she cried for days. And did she cry over a guy that wasn't contributing to society as much as he should? Yes, she did. So a mother and a father's pain is experienced, and we should understand that pain because we know pain all too well.

So we don't have to agree with what got us here. What we have to agree on we can go forward with love, we can go forward with Dallas, we can go forward with themes that bring us together in unity with police officers who we need, with community members who we need.

So I wasn't bothered by it. I know people who were, but I wasn't bothered by it. I'm not bothered by showing love and compassion to my fellow man and at the same time holding them accountable for their actions. So I have no issue with playing it out. We'll play it out in the coming days. We have a lot of work to do.

So we should say it. And this is the hard conversation, and in hard conversations with, we often disagree. We should never disagree violently, but we're going to disagree, and we should understand that, but we still need to sit at the table.

And I think our leader, our president, but when you have gone to the top, that's my president. I don't care what party he comes from, it's my president. So he came, he took his time out to come here from running the best nation in the world to extend his sympathies to a family and embrace them, and then he also said let's come together. He talked about doing an injustice to the past, dishonoring the memories of or Martin Luther King and Malcolm X or Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas. We have come a long way from slavery, and we're here now. We have a long way to go. So we should understand that. If we're not going to sit down as honorable or respectable men and women, we're going to go to our corners and come out for a boxing match, that's not an honorable way for us to do things.

I implore the president to still call for a national conversation on race and police brutality. I request that the Congress call on it, be men and women and stand up and let's have a tough conversation in Washington and every city across this nation.

CUOMO: Malik Aziz, thank you very much, Congressman Veasey, thank you for your perspective as well. Malik Aziz is saying what many of you are saying, which is we have to have this conversation. And even though it's hard, that's why we have it, because it is hard, and we're having it tonight. For a special two-hour town hall, "Black, White, and Blue America 2016," about the tensions between police and minorities which are all too real in this country today.

[08:15:06] Don Lemon is going to moderate, it starts at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

Pop?

HARLOW: All right. A supreme showdown between Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Donald Trump is escalating. Trump has labeled the Supreme Court justice a disgrace. He's calling on her to resign this morning. This is after she called him a, quote, "faker" and a lot more in a CNN interview.

CNN's Sara Murray is live in Indianapolis with more.

Wow, this is a first.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wow is right, Poppy. It's very unusual to see a Supreme Court justice doing this, and she did it not just in one interview with CNN, but in multiple interviews with different news outlets. And as usual, Donald Trump, he hit back. He has not had any odd political foes this cycle from the leaders of his own party to the pope and now to a Supreme Court justice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY (voice-over): Donald Trump intensifying his battle with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Trump now calling on Ginsburg to step down, tweeting early this morning that Justice Ginsburg "embarrassed all by making very dumb political statements about me. Her mind is shot -- resign."

In an interview with CNN, Justice Ginsburg blasted Trump as a "faker" who "really has an ego."

House Speaker Paul Ryan addressing the controversy in a CNN town hall last night.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think it's out of place for an appointed branch of government. That shows bias to me.

MURRAY: Meanwhile, Trump playing to the hometown crowd last night, coyly hinting Indiana Governor Mike Pence might get the V.P. nod.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't know whether he's going to be your governor or your vice president. Who the hell knows?

MURRAY: As Trump tries out potential running mates on the road, he still insists the pick is coming this week. And Pence is aiming to prove his prowess on the campaign trail.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: I think it would be extremely careless to elect Hillary Clinton as the next president of the United States.

MURRAY: The vice-presidential intrigue coming as both presidential candidates grapple with more somber issues on the trail, a string of shootings claiming police and civilians alike.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: These tragedies tear at our soul.

MURRAY: Clinton responding with a call for national guidelines for police use of force and training about implicit bias.

CLINTON: Get law enforcement the support they need while also stopping the tragedy. The tragedy of black men and women and black children being killed in police incidents. MURRAY: While Trump says he stands unequivocally on the side of

police.

TRUMP: The hostility against our police has to end.

MURRAY: Trump even claiming, without offering any evidence, that protesters in 11 cities marched in solidarity with the shooter, who killed five police officers in Dallas.

TRUMP: The other night you had 11, think of it, 11 cities potentially in a blow-up stage. Marches all over the United States and tough marches, anger, hatred, started by a maniac that some people asked for a moment of silence for him, for the killer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, even though Trump is facing backlash today for that last comment, his team haze still some reasons to be in good spirits this morning. A new set of Quinnipiac's swing state poll showed Donald Trump as essentially tied with Clinton in Florida, in Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

And on top of that, they will have the veep stakes speculation continuing to whirl today, that's after Donald Trump decided he would spend the night in Indianapolis. He's supposed to be headed to California later today, but we will see, Chris.

CUOMO: Trump doing a good job of getting free media out of his V.P. stakes thing. But we'll keep following it because it matters.

Sara Murray, thank you very much.

We also have breaking news coming out of Great Britain, David Cameron about to leave 10 Downing Street for the last time as prime minister. In just hours, he's going to head to Buckingham Palace to hand the queen a formal letter of resignation. In his speech to Parliament, he encouraged the country to stay as close to the E.U. as possible.

Now, his successor, Theresa May is going to meet with the queen today and be invited to form a new government as she officially becomes the U.K.'s second female prime minister.

HARLOW: More on Donald Trump and Ruth Bader Ginsburg going toe to toe. Did the Supreme Court justice cross a line and just how much so?

Also, veep stakes, who will be Trump's number two? Our all-star political panel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:23:11] HARLOW: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Big, big, big questions on the campaign this morning. Donald Trump also taking on a Supreme Court justice. She actually started the fight, the back and forth. This as the political world watches and waits for veep stakes. Who will be Trump's vice presidential pick? Let's talk about all of this with former communications director for

Jeb Bush's presidential campaign and communications advisor for the anti-Trump super PAC, Tim Miller, CNN political commentator and Donald Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord, and CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist, and senior advisor for pro-Hillary Clinton super PAC, Paul Begala.

I'm exhausted getting through your introductions, gentlemen.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So are we.

TIM MILLER, COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR FOR THE ANTI-TRUMP SUPER PAC: Sorry about that, Poppy.

HARLOW: It's OK. I'm glad you're with us this morning.

Our Jim Acosta just out with some reporting about veep stakes, saying, don't count Chris Christie out yet, a source very close to the V.P. selection process says, Trump wants a fighter and Christie fits the bill.

To you, Paul, what do you make of that?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, Jim's a great reporter, I'm sure that's right. Christie would do a lot for Trump. He would be doubling down, right? I mean, Christie like Trump I kind of a tough guy, bombastic, Northeasterner, and so, double down on the Trump brand. And there's some merit in that.

I wonder somebody far distant from it, Chris Christie when he was a prosecutor, prosecuted the family of Trump's son-in-law. And that kind of could make for some weird politics. I have no idea how that plays out.

HARLOW: Well, isn't it more than that? Isn't it the more than weird politics? I mean, he prosecuted Charles Kushner. Charles Kushner spent two years in jail after a plea. This was very, very personal for Jared, and Jared and Ivanka are parts of the Trump camp. Isn't it more than just weird politics?

BEGALA: Well, they seem to be indispensable. I have to say.

[08:25:01] I don't actually know either of them personally. They seem to be enormously gifted people and, you know, Mr. Trump needs them. He can't do without his daughter and son-in-law.

HARLOW: Right.

BEGALA: So, I don't know. I just think that's interesting to throw out there. And Christie has got an enormous amount of talent. He's a very abled politician. He didn't do very well in the campaign, but he's a very talented guy, and I think he might be the sort of attack dog that Trump wants.

CUOMO: If it mattered that much, Christie, wouldn't be as close to Trump as he already is. So I think that they've kind of baked that in already.

Jeffrey, I've never known Donald Trump to make decisions by committee, I have never known Donald Trump to not know his own mind. Is all this just all a clever way of stringing out free media attention for a decision he already has made?

LORD: I absolutely have no idea, Chris. I mean, it's possible he's made the decision already. It's possible he's still deciding. He is a showman and frankly he would not be the only presidential nominee who string things out to the very last to get maximum attention.

This is a fairly standard thing for presidential nominees. Jimmy Carter did it as I recall, Ronald Reagan burst into the convention hall, breaking all sorts of rules, informal rules about a presidential nominee and announced George Bush in 1980. So he is, I'm sure playing it for all it's worth, and he should.

HARLOW: Tim Miller, to you, when you look at the options on the table right now, Pence seems like a safe choice, right? He's got that political experience. Newt Gingrich and Christie Trump said he has good chemistry with, but you've got, you know, pretty much all of them who disagreed with Trump on a lot of policy issues, including free trade.

Where do you go from here?

MILLER: It's not a good sign when Trump feels like he needs to shore up his conservative base with somebody like Mike Pence, because they don't trust him. But what the reality is the Trump veep stakes is Trump is Trump, and Trump is erratic and as Chris said, he's going to make decisions for himself.

So, I don't know that his vice president really matters that much. Trump is not the kind of person to rely on a vice president.

I'd say quickly on Chris Christie, one big issue with picking Chris Christie is in the primary, Trump said multiple times, Chris Christie knew about bridgegate, which if true, is a crime. And so, that would basically be Trump saying either I was full of it back then or I don't care that Chris Christie committed a crime.

HARLOW: Chris Christie also called Trump unfit to be president. I mean, there's a lot of back an forth there.

CUOMO: Look, that's the nature of the game, that's one of the reasons that people don't have faith in politics --

MILLER: You don't call people a criminal, though, Chris. That's not the nature of the game.

CUOMO: But that's what this election has become. The rules are gone, and that's why people have --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: What's the question you asked before, who's less wrong? CUOMO: Who is more wrong?

HARLOW: This is the question of the day.

CUOMO: Who is more wrong?

LORD: I can't wait to play that cranking game with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Jeffrey, I'll drink to anything at this point.

Let me ask you this -- the idea of asking for Ginsburg to resign, is this the right way to handle the situation? I don't think anybody can argue that a Supreme Court justice should not weigh in on the election. There's no official rulebook, but they don't do it for a reason. Do you like Trump's response?

LORD: Sure, I do. You know, I'll tell you what, when you read this article she gave an interview in, that's not the only really out of the park political thing that she said. She said how she wanted to, if it were up to her, she'd get Citizen's United overturned. She went on and chastised the U.S. Senate for not confirming Merrick Garland to the Supreme Court.

I mean, what she's saying basically is she's a politician, which, of course, has been the big criticism and that's one of Donald Trump's criticisms of the court. That they're not in the legalities or the constitutional, they're into politics. So, she has played right into this. And he's hit it out of the park. Yes, he ought to make it a big issue.

MILLER: Chris, Jeffrey made a career here on your network on defending all of Donald Trump's dumb political statements, and so now, Judge Ginsburg says one dumb thing and she has to resign.

HARLOW: Wait, wait, wait, Paul, jump in here, not apples to apples at all. You're talking about the Supreme Court justice.

MILLER: Trump is running for president.

BEGALA: The late Senator Pat Moynihan came up with a concept in crime actually called defining deviancy downward. We accept it, worse and worse and worse behavior as the norm. That's what Donald Trump has done. He has defined civility downwards.

Of course, Justice Ginsburg was out of line. Of course she was. Supreme Court justices, they're supposed to do what the late Justice Scalia did, and the late Chief Justice Rehnquist did, which is don't say anything in public, and then steal the election in private from the guy who got more votes.

Which is more partisan? I happen to be more offended by what Rehnquist and Scalia did, but I think what the justice did was wrong. Donald Trump played into this. He told the Senate there were 12 articles in the Constitution. There's only seven, Don.

CUOMO: Gentlemen, gentlemen -- (CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I know, it's time to go. Fellas, thank you very much. Appreciate it as always.

All right. So, let's take a little break here.