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Trump to Make V.P. Announcement Tomorrow; Clinton Campaign Releases New Attack Ad in Swing States; Thousands Mourn Fallen Dallas Police Officers; CNN Hosts Town Hall on Racial Divide. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 14, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm at three. Potentially four.

[05:58:28] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The vice-presidential spot, at this point, it's up to him.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Certainly, I'm one of the people who's sitting by the phone waiting.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: It's very humbling to be considered for a position of this magnitude.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I am confident that he will make America great again.

TRUMP: In my own mind, I probably am thinking about two.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will not let the act of a coward break us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Violence is not -- it will never be the answer to nothing. We want peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been a one-way conversation about the police, but not including the police.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not close to being where we want to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it about black people that make us seem to police officers to be more dangerous?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It's Thursday, July 14, 6 a.m. in the east. Alisyn is off. Poppy Harlow joins me this morning. We're going to be talking a lot about race today, but we do have this political intrigue.

The presumptive Republican nominee, he says he's going to announce his running mate tomorrow morning in New York. Donald Trump has done it again, dominating the news cycle. No one really asking who Hillary Clinton is going to pick as a running mate. But the intrigue for Trump has the media on edge.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: The pick will come just days before the start of the Republican convention in Cleveland. Details of who will speak there -- and who won't -- starting to emerge. And it's looking like, shall I say, anything but your average convention.

We've got it all covered for you. Let's begin with Phil Mattingly, live from Cleveland. First of all, Phil, everyone has been waiting and waiting and waiting to find. And now some details, according to "The New York Times" and you're talking to the campaign. What do we know?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the speaker list as it currently stands, which was promised a week ago yesterday, as you noted, is available in draft form. And this hasn't officially been released by the Trump campaign yet.

"The New York Times" got ahold of a draft last night. I've talked to a Trump adviser who confirmed the basic contents of it. And as you noted, it is going to be anything but your average campaign, not your traditional set of Republican speakers, not even your traditional set of Republican rising stars. That's exactly what Trump promised.

One thing he's promised that he hasn't delivered on yet, who his vice- presidential candidate will be. That is still up in the air, and sources say it might even still be up in the air in Trump's mind.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRICH: My hunch is he's flying to California thinking about, you know, Gingrich, Pence.

MATTINGLY: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich predicting Trump's choice for vice president is between him and Indiana Governor Mike Pence.

GINGRICH: Do you really want a two-pirate ticket ordo you want a very solid guy?

MATTINGLY: Trump himself says he's whittled down the field.

TRUMP: I'm at three, potentially four. In my own mind, I probably am thinking about two.

MATTINGLY: Sources tell CNN that New Jersey Governor Chris Christie remains a finalist with Trump looking for a fighter, even though he's now hinting at quite the opposite.

TRUMP: I'm not looking for an attack dog. Frankly, I'm looking for somebody that really understands what we're talking about, because I'd rather have the whole thing be on policy.

MATTINGLY: Trump's search for a V.P. entering a frenzied phase in the final round, and it's playing out like a reality show in Indiana. First, meeting privately with Pence and the Trump children at the governor's mansion.

PENCE: Nothing was offered; nothing was accepted.

MATTINGLY: Then with Gingrich, who flew out on a private plane owned by FOX News host Sean Hannity to meet with Trump. Trump also speaking on the phone with his former rival, Christie, about the V.P. role. They are known to talk daily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us where you think you stand in the veep process?

CHRISTIE: I can't, but it's good to see you.

MATTINGLY: A source familiar with the process telling CNN Trump's influential older children are worried their father will make a decision they don't like.

This as Hillary Clinton intensifies her attacks against the New York billionaire, all ahead of his big announcement.

CLINTON: His campaign is as divisive as any we have seen in our lifetime.

MATTINGLY: Deriding the GOP for turning to Trump.

CLINTON: This man is the nominee of the party of Lincoln. We are watching it become the party of Trump. And that's not just a huge loss for our democracy. It is a threat to it.

MATTINGLY: The clock is also ticking on who will speak at next week's Republican convention. The Trump campaign is yet to publicly release a list of speakers, but we already know the party's past nominees and living former presidents will not be there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And guys, obviously, 2012 nominee Mitt Romney not going to be there. George W. Bush, the 43rd president, not going to be there. George H.W. Bush, the 41st president, not going to be there.

But we have seen in this draft list, which was confirmed by advisers to Trump, that there will be a number of celebrities, both sports and of film. You're thinking Tim Tebow. You're thinking a number of different people.

Trump promised a showbiz, very different convention. It appears that he's on his way to delivering that. Now aides advise this is all subject to change, but we do know it's going to be an interesting spectacle. One of the interesting elements, Mike Pence is actually listed to speak, which might tip the hand a little bit on who that V.P. pick will be. But guys, very up in the air right now as we all kind of await with baited breath what's going to happen tomorrow in New York -- Poppy and Chris. CUOMO: It's interesting, though, Phil. It's kind of a curveball.

Pence is scheduled to speak. does that mean he's the guy and they're giving him a slot? Or does it mean he's not the guy? Because right? Who knows, who knows?

All right. So it's Gingrich who's going to speak. Gingrich is the one with the slot. So we'll see. The same analysis. Different name.

All right. So let's discuss. We have Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich. We have CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis. And CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston.

Errol, do you feel had a little bit by this process of who Trump's V.P. is going to be? Sam Clovis, one of his top advisors, was on the show with us yesterday, as he often is. And he basically conceded that, yes, we got you going.

HARLOW: He threw it out there.

CUOMO: We extended this whole news cycle. Why not? Why get it done simply when we can just talk about this, which is all good for us?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure, it's all good for them. And frankly, I don't feel had, but I partly suspect that there's going to be some fifth candidate that nobody has mentioned who's going to be pulled out of a hat at the end of the process. That's not only possible, but I think it would actually sort of be to the advantage of the candidate.

[06:05:05] One thing about airing a lot of these names is we've got a lot of commentary over the last few days. So in addition to sort of building up the suspense, you get a lot of analysis. And people have really poked some holes in some of these candidates, as well as pointed out some of their strengths.

I mean, Chris Christie, for example, you know, we've covered so much about Bridgegate that people sort of write him off. You start to look at his -- his record really closely, even before he was a governor, and what he brings to the table, he actually is a very plausible choice.

CUOMO: Do you think it's him?

LOUIS: I think -- I think he's the dark-horse candidate that probably needs a little more attention, yes.

HARLOW: Jackie Kucinich, to you, you've said you think that he will choose, Trump will choose whomever his children like best. The issue is if Errol, that smile that I just saw from Errol that says he thinks it might be Christie. If it is Christie, he's got a problem with his kids on that one.

JACKIE KUCINICH, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "THE DAILY BEAST": He does. You're absolutely right. And I think that's why you heard Phil say there's a concern among the children that, you know, they're -- he's going to pick someone that he -- that they don't like.

But he does listen to them. I still -- I still think it might be Mike Pence. He has the broadest resume. He gives Trump things that Trump has said that he needs. You know, that foothold in Congress, someone who's an executive, someone who appeals to the conservative base.

The interesting thing is both of the governors that are in the mix are deeply unpopular in their own states, which you know, go into the negative column for them. So basically, I think we're all just stuck in this who wants to run with a billionaire reality show until Trump decides to make up his mind.

CUOMO: Although, to redeem a little bit of our credibility, Maeve, one of the reasons that this demands more attention is because Trump has been discussed in terms of what he isn't so often. You know, what his liabilities are and what the concerns are with him, the incompleteness of him. So that who he partners with may arguably be more important than a Hillary Clinton. Fair analysis?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Talking to delegates here in Cleveland over the last couple of days, there's, you know, a lot of anxiety about this pick. A lot of people really want someone like Mike Pence, who is a strong conservative and who would be a good balance, a very calm balance to Trump.

If you think about Newt Gingrich, who as Jackie mentioned, you know, the kids obviously have a very close relationship now, those two would just reinforce each other's worst instincts, potentially, on the campaign trail.

And there's a lot of people in the Republican Party that are worried about that, hoping that Trump will start to act more presidential, but I think both, because of the kids' influence, both Pence and Gingrich are still very much in the running. And seriously, from we've heard from Trump advisers is that Trump feels very tortured over this decision, you know, still thinking about Christie very much in the mix. So I think we'll see.

HARLOW: So why, Errol, was Gingrich in that FOX News interview last night issuing such effusive praise of Mike Pence? He could not have been nicer to the guy that he thinks is the only other one in contention.

LOUIS: You mean when Gingrich was talking about Gingrich and Pence, not himself in the third person?

HARLOW: You know what he said about Pence. He said Pence would bring to Trump what George H.W. Bush brought to Reagan.

LOUIS: He also mentioned that Pence was fourth in the House leadership, you know, as opposed to Gingrich, who was first.

HARLOW: Clearly.

LOUIS: The two of them frankly, even visually, present the same way. Gingrich, I think, sees himself as a better legislator than Pence so that he's got ideas and he's got a record and Pence has ideas and a record, but he just thinks his are superior. And I think that's a natural way to try and puff himself up.

On the other hand, there's a lot of baggage there. You know, I mean, he is a known quantity, but he takes us right back into the Clinton wars. And he didn't come out of it unscathed. In fact, lost the House leadership as a result of it. So I'm not so sure that that would be the smart political play.

CUOMO: Go ahead. Go ahead.

RESTON: Not just that, but there's this very long history of time in the public sector, and there apparently have been a lot of vetting things for the campaign to go through. So Gingrich could be a potentially dangerous choice if you think about re-litigating all of that history in addition to everything that Errol just said.

CUOMO: They've handled it pretty well with Trump, though. I mean, he has so many years of intrigue, to put it politely, in his own past.

KUCINICH: But his books aren't open, and they never will be in the Trump organization.

CUOMO: Well, that is true, because he won't show his tax return. But by the way, we do keep asking the campaign for the tax returns. They keep saying the audit is going on. A lot of people ask us that question.

The only thing I can say in this is I don't know who it's going to be. I do think he knows who it's going to be. And I think Chris Christie, this idea that the kids want him boxed out completely, is just not true. Jared Kushner is dealing with him on almost a daily basis, transition items. If they didn't want him around, he wouldn't be around that much.

Let me ask you something directly. But the conventions, what are we expecting? This one is expected to be -- they have to achieve different purposes, we keep being told. How so?

[06:10:07] KUCINICH: Well, this is about not only -- I mean, everyone knows who Donald Trump is, but this is about introducing Donald Trump as someone who could actually lead the nation. Because that's been sort of an open question in terms of -- he's been sort of all over the place.

So we're seeing -- and we're also seeing a piece of this is delegitimizing Hillary Clinton. I think that's why you see the Benghazi focus on the first night. So in -- this really is going to be a show. And it's one of the things that Trump's advisers are saying is that they're taking their time to roll out the list to build the suspense, which is great spin.

And you know, it's probably somewhere in the middle in terms of organization versus the greatest show on earth. But this is certainly the least predictable convention that I've covered. Usually the speeches are vetted three weeks ago, and we already know the list. HARLOW: So as the focus is on Donald Trump and the Republican

convention, Hillary Clinton's camp really wanting to make a splash today with an ad that they are releasing. We're going to play you the ad in full and then let's discuss it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were at a place like this? They'd be carried out on a stretcher, folks.

And you can tell them to go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) themselves.

I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's like incredible.

When Mexico sends its people, they're bringing drugs; they're bringing crime. They're rapists.

You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her, wherever.

You see this guy, "I don't know what I said. I don't remember." He's going like, "I don't remember."

GRAPHIC: Our children are watching. What example will we set for them?

CLINTON: Our children and grandchildren will look back at this time, at the choices we are about to make, the goals we will strive for, the principles we will live by, and we need to make sure that they can be proud of us.

I'm Hillary Clinton, and I approved this message.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW: Just released today. Errol, I thought of 2008 and the 3 a.m. phone call ad from the Clinton camp as sort of who's better prepared. Sort of in that same vein. What do you make of this?

LOUIS: It's in the same vein. But you know, in some ways, it strikes me as overkill. You know, we're all parents. Parents don't need to be reminded that the kids are important and what they hear and what they see and what they're thinking about is also important. So it strikes me -- just on first impression, my first time seeing it, as sort of overkill.

Right. I mean, and frankly, there are clips that I think would have been a little more jarring to make the point that they were making. And then also it is striking and somewhat risky to sort of take your opponent and put them in the ad in that way. And that's just normally not something that you would do.

CUOMO: Interesting. No mention of Muslims as one of the points of potential... LOUIS: Much more incendiary stuff out there.

CUOMO: ... things you wouldn't want to see.

And also, you've got to remember, kids aren't voting. Adults are voting. And there are a lot of things about Clinton that peeve a lot of people on the same level of, is this a good example. So we've got to see how it plays.

All right. So we've been talking about the conventions. Our thanks to Errol, to Jackie and Maeve for helping set the table for what's going on. And we will be there for you live all week in Cleveland starting 5 a.m., yes, an hour early. That's how excited we are. Monday morning for the Republican National Convention.

Please be sure to join the best political team in the business for CNN's primetime coverage, which will begin at 4 p.m. Eastern every day.

HARLOW: Thousands of mourners attending the first funerals for the Dallas police officers killed in that sniper attack one week ago today. The victims remembered as loving fathers, selfless protectors of their community.

This comes as President Obama sat down at the White House yesterday with law enforcement officers and Black Lives Matter activists, looking for a way to try to come together.

Our Sara Sidner this morning is live in Dallas with more. Sara, we spoke yesterday ahead of the funerals, the anticipation. What was it like?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's talk about the fact that the family of Michael Smith actually ended up mourning privately. They wanted to have their time to say good-bye on a private level.

But then you had hundreds of people coming out for two other police officers who lost their lives back on Thursday. Police officer Lorne Ahrens' family saw the support from the community, as did Dallas area rapid transit officer Brent Thompson.

We heard a moving speech from his wife, knowing that his wife is also a fellow officer. The two were married less than a month ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY THOMPSON, WIFE OF BRENT THOMPSON: Though I'm heartbroken and hurt, I'm going to put on my badge and my uniform and return to the street, along with all of my brothers and sisters in blue. To the coward that tried to break me and my brothers and sisters, know your hate made us stronger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:14] SIDNER: now, after taking a part in a moving memorial that honored all five of the officers, President Obama returning home. He then had a four-hour meeting with officers and members of Black Lives Matter and other activist groups, ting to figure out how to bridge the gap between race and policing -- Chris.

CUOMO: The question has become so painfully obvious. The solution still seemingly in rare supply. There are more meetings. There's talking. There's dialogue. What's next?

Thank you very much for the reporting. We'll check back in a little bit.

There is no question that race relations in the U.S. seem to be sinking to their lowest level in decades. The raw anger and emotion out there was revealed last night for all to see in a riveting CNN town hall. Can we heal this divided nation? We learned some things last night. We'll tell you to them [SIC] next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Race relations in this country right now at the lowest level since 1992. That this morning from a new "New York Times"/CBS poll.

[06:20:17] Consider this. The last time that Americans thought that race relations were this bad, people were rioting in the streets of Los Angeles after a jury acquitted officers in the beating of Rodney King.

So with tensions so high across this country, CNN hosted a very powerful town hall last night on the racial divide and on how to come together. The emotions of the last week run deep and very raw. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'd want peace. He'd want good to come out of all of this.

HARLOW (voice-over): Two families impacted by last week's violence coming together, stressing the need for unity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking another person's life, it won't make the other person's life come back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Violence is never going to be the answer to nothing. And I think we all come together to say that we want peace. We want peace for both families.

HARLOW: Activists and law enforcement all joining a candid conversation about whether policing in America is inherently biased against blacks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have spoken to police officers who have told me that they believe that black people are genetically predisposed to be criminals, and it is their obligation to control these people by whatever means are necessary.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The history of African-Americans in this country started with slavery. Then it moved to black coats, to segregation. Who was it who was enforcing those racist policies? It was the white police officer. So that narrative exists in the community based on the history, and it's factual.

HARLOW: Questions over how to comply with police dominating the CNN town hall, many fearful and distrusting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instructing our young people day in and day out that there's something in their behavior that brings on the abuse is tantamount to telling women that there's something that we do that caused street harassment and rape. We have to change that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We should not have a racial divide in this country anymore, but we do. So I say to him, you do put your wheel. You do be careful. Maybe you do still have to be extra careful because you're black.

CHARLES BLOW, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Can we just take a moment as America and register how profound and immoral it is to say, this is the only thing that will keep you safe, is that if you pack this tool box and you take it with you everywhere you go and this is not the way that everybody has to behave. It is only the way that you have to behave. And it is not your fault, and you have not done anything wrong. But it is because you are who you are, and they do not see you as the person that I love, but they see you as a person that they should fear.

HARLOW: A heart-wrenching moment as one mother shares her fear for her son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every moment he's not with me I fear for his life. I keep hearing you tell me to tell my son what to do. My 14- year-old is sitting right there, so you tell him he needs to be more respectful. You tell him he needs to be more compliant to your rules and your laws. Because I've told him, and obviously, it doesn't matter, because you're telling me I'm not telling him enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then this officer comforts her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry that we have not fulfilled our civil duty and our responsibility to you and this community and your children, and I'm sorry. And I just want to take a moment and say to you, I'm sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: There's a lot of emotion last night. There are also a lot of ideas on the table. There's going to be a lot of controversy coming out of it.

Let's discuss some of this. We have CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill. He's the author of "Nobody: Casualties of America's War on the Poor." And Joe Giacalone. He's a former NYPD sergeant, professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

So we're trying to make progress for these conversations. One of the things I keep bringing up is we know what the problem is. What are the solutions? How, how, how?

We saw a little taste of how actually at the Espys last night. A little odd for people to hear, "Espys, what?" This is cultural. You know, sports, entertainment, big part of our culture. Look what happened last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARMELO ANTHONY, NBA PLAYER: The events of the past week have put a spotlight on the injustice, distrust, and anger that plague so many of us. The system is broken. The problems are not new. The violence is not new. And the racial divide definitely is not new.

DWAYNE WADE, NBA PLAYER: As athletes, it's on us to challenge each other to do even more than what we already do in our own communities. And the conversation cannot -- it cannot stop if our schedules get busy again.

[06:25:07] LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: Let's use this moment as a call to action for all professional athletes to educate ourselves. Explore these issues. Speak up. Use our influence and renounce all violence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, some will say, Joe, this is sports. There's no place for this. You know, this is a distraction. I've never believed that. I also believe some of the greatest minority athletes were guys who were bigger than just their sport. You think this is help? You think it's incendiary?

JOE GIACALONE, PROFESSOR, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: No, absolutely. I think it's absolutely helpful. You have people that everyone looks up to. And it breaks racial divides, too. Blacks, whites, Asians. You look up to these guys. Whatever. And we watch them. We have to understand that they come from a position where they can reach masses unlike a lot of other people in the community.

CUOMO: And very often they come out of socioeconomic situations where a lot of these problems and issues that we're talking about play out, right, Marc?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. That's why they have such credibility with their audience. That's why they can feel this on a visceral level. When they see Trayvon Martin or when they see Sandra Bland, they say this could have been me. This could have been my mother. This could have been, you know, my own experience. This could be my children.

And so it makes it more compelling to them. And I applaud them for taking the time to do this.

CUOMO: All right. So last night I thought it was very helpful, because it allowed for a lot of the emotion and the venting about the fear, and the danger, and frustration you see in the African-American community. There were points of pushback, though, that didn't come up as much,

and that's OK. Because everything is a step, right? It's not a criticism.

So here's what I keep hearing back. Let's try and unpack these. One, this does not happen as often as you and the media want to make it sound like. We're talking about a small fraction of under 3 percent of all interactions that police have. Tens and tens of thousands of actions, depending on how you want to calculate it. And only this little itty bitty slice winds up being and even claims of excessive force. Is that a legitimate point of pushback?

HILL: It's worth analysis. One is that it's similar to sexual violence. Most don't go reported -- most don't get reported.

Second thing is 3 percent is still a very, very, very large number. If you think out of every 100 interactions with police, that's a big deal.

The other thing is that black people are disproportionately policed. And these police incidents happen disproportionately in black neighborhoods. So even at 3 percent is a lot in black neighborhoods, disproportionate. So all this stuff matters.

CUOMO: Agree, disagree?

GIACALONE: No, I agree. I mean, there were some things brought up last night that, you know, things have to be addressed. The stop and frisk issue. I mean, when you overuse it as a tool and you're using it in communities that are black, white, Hispanic, whatever, and you're using it as a numbers game, you're going to end up getting people disproportionately stopped that shouldn't have been stopped in the first place.

CUOMO: And I'll tell you one thing that the situation in Minnesota did pick out. Revenue generating through stops is something that exists without regard to color in a lot of communities. Cops often make money from municipalities over stopping people. This guy was stopped dozens of times, paid thousands of dollars in fines on petty ante stuff. That's an example. Forget about the use of force.

GIACALONE: It's immoral.

CUOMO: Right. And that's something that can affect you as much as it can affect me. People will get you with the cell phones and everything else. So there are a lot of issues that deal with the system that don't have to do with race.

Second point of pushback: the reason there are more interactions is because the black population is accountable for much of the crime, much more than the white population. Is that true, and does that help explain why there's so much interaction?

HILL: Well, I think that's a great question. Let's look at drugs, for example. Because lots of people point to violent crime first. Violent crimes aren't the biggest reason people are incarcerated. So if people are getting locked up for drugs, cocaine use. Cocain use among white people and black people is essentially the same. Type of cocaine is different, but cocaine use is the same among black populations and the white populations. Black people get arrested for it more. We get longer sentences for it more, historically and currently.

And so the question then becomes, are black people really bad in not getting caught, or is it something structural that allows them to get caught up in this web more easily?

CUOMO: So the number isn't impressive to you. You know, the statistics are like -- whether it's New York City or any other big city, they'll say close to 80 percent of all the violent crime comes out of that African-American community. That's why the cops are dealing with them most, accept that reality.

HILL: If we're going to talk about crime, yes there, is a higher amount of violent crime in certain areas. And I think there are a range of factors that we can attribute to that. Doesn't mean for those conservatives out there that I never talk about responsibility. There's a piece of responsibility there. We shouldn't shoot each other. I'm not disputing that.

But there are other factors we know that reduce violent crime, like investing in communities, like afterschool programs, like higher education, like housing, like health care, et cetera, et cetera. And if we don't invest in those things and we only police people, then we also end up there. There's a whole systemic change that we need that does include personal responsibility that can't be exhausted at the level of personal responsibility.

CUOMO: And the last issue that is going to take more time to unpack, but just a quick taste on it, Joe, the idea of there does need to be a culture shift and not just on the police side. People are rude. They're disrespectful. Young people, especially from minority populations, cops will tell you feel it's OK to --