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New Day

Donald Trump's Possible Vice Presidential Picks Examined; Interview with Former Trump Adviser Michael Caputo; President Meets with Law Enforcement and Civil Rights Leaders; Race and Policing Focus of Last Night's CNN Town Hall. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 14, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will not let the act of a coward break us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We call come together to say that we want peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has been a one way conversation about the police, but not including the police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not even close to being where we want to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it about black people that make us seem to police officers more dangerous?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Heavy questions and conversation going on in this country right now as we say good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Thursday, July 14, 6:00 in the east. No, it isn't. It is 8:00 in the east. This show is so long. So Poppy Harlow is joining me this morning. We do have a lot of news for you this morning.

America gets to meet Donald Trump's running mate tomorrow morning. Who is going to it be? Indiana governor, Mike Pence, some consider him the front runner. Other people say no, no, no, it's got to begin glitch. Other people say wait, what about Christi? He's the closest to him. It could be anyone's guess.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The big reveal, and it is a big one, coming just days before the kickoff of the Republican National Convention on Monday. We have just learned this morning who will speak at the RNC and, really interestingly, who won't. So let's begin our coverage this morning with Phil Mattingly live in Cleveland. Good morning. Who are the names?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. That long awaited list, at least partial list for next week's convention has been released this morning by the Republican National Committee. And it's a little bit of what you expect today, a very different, almost cross-section that goes beyond politics. Not your traditional convention, where it is just political leaders up and coming rising stars within the party. You have actors, you have athletes. Then you have few Republican party officials as well. But the big question as we look at this list is who might be one of the keynote speakers at the convention next week, as in, who is the vice-presidential nominee going to be?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, (R) FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: My hunch is he is flying to California thinking about, you know, Gingrich/Pence.

MATTINGLY: Former house speaker Newt predicting Trump's choice for vice president is between him and Indiana Governor Mike Pence.

GINGRICH: Do you really want a two pirate ticket, or do you want to pick a very solid guy?

MATTINGLY: Trump himself says he's whittled down the field.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm at three, potentially four, but in my own mind I probably am thinking about two.

MATTINGLY: Sources tell CNN that New Jersey Governor Chris Christie remains a finalist, with Trump looking for a fighter, even though he is now hinting at quite the opposite.

TRUMP: I'm not looking for an attack dog. Frankly, I'm looking for somebody that really understands what we're talking about because I would rather have the whole thing be on policy.

MATTINGLY: Trump's search for a V.P. entering a frenzied phase in the final round. It's playing out like a reality show in Indiana. First, meeting privately with Pence and the Trump children at the governor's mansion.

GOV. MIKE PENCE, (R) INDIANA: Nothing was offered, nothing was accepted.

MATTINGLY: And with Gingrich, who flew out on a private plane met by FOX News host Sean Hannity, to meet with Trump. Trump also speaking on the phone with his former rival, Christi, about the V.P. role. They are known to talk daily.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where you think you stand in the V.P. process?

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) NEW JERSEY: I can't, but it is good to see you.

MATTINGLY: A source familiar with the process telling CNN Trump's influential older children are worried their father will make a decision they don't like.

This, as Hillary Clinton intensifies her attacks against the New York billionaire, all ahead of his big announcement.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: His campaign is as divisive as any we have seen in our lifetimes.

MATTINGLY: Deriding the GOP for turning to Trump.

CLINTON: This man is the nominee of the party of Lincoln. We are watching it become the party of Trump. And that's not just a huge loss for our democracy. It is a threat to it.

MATTINGLY: The clock is also ticking on who will speak at next week's Republican Convention, the RNC releasing a list this morning. Interestingly, those speakers include begin given and Christie, but not Pence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Chris, I know I've been toying with your emotions. On the tea leave reading all morning based on who is on that list and who is not on the list, now Trump advisors warn don't read too much into it. There is a list that will change. It is a partial list right now. As an example, Tim Tebow, the former Heisman Trophy winner, a very popular athlete, is not on the RNC's official list, but a Trump advisor says he is scheduled to speak. Some of the other people that cross-section that are scheduled to speak, Governor Scott Walker, the very popular Republican governor of Wisconsin, Ted Cruz, the former intense opponent of Donald Trump, Antonio Sabato Jr., the actor and underwear model, Natalie Gulbis, a well-known professional golfer. So guys, you want to talk about an unconventional convention, this is certainly that based on the speakers we're seen.

[08:05:04] But as I noted, there could be more additions. Don't read too much into what this might mean for that V.P. pick, which obviously we'll find out officially tomorrow morning at 11:00.

CUOMO: Phil, this is the man of a face of anticipation that you see right now. You call out Antonio Sabato, Jr., and my eyebrows go up. Dana White form the UFC is going to be speaking at the Republican Convention. I can't wait to hear what he says.

So, for all the factors that distinguish these two, Clinton and Trump, in the polls, they are nodded up. A new CBS News/"New York Times" poll out this morning shows Clinton and Trump literally neck in neck heading into the national conventions.

Let's discuss the state of play, what's going to happen with this V.P. thing, what the convention means, what these polls mean with former Trump campaign advisor Michael Caputo. It's good to have you on the show, as always.

MICHAEL CAPUTO, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Good morning, Chris, how are you doing?

CUOMO: So can you give me some love on the V.P. situation? The idea of who it's going to be. Let's just start with the idea that Trump doesn't know yet. I don't buy that, Michael. What do you think the state of play is?

CAPUTO: Well, far be it from me to speak for Donald Trump on this. The only person who knows who the vice president is going to be is Donald Trump. I happen to think that if I'm reading the tea leaves, that I think it is Mike Pence. I think Mike Pence is the best thing for this ticket, because it is tough having two fire brands on the ticket, president and vice president, and that's what you have if you chose a Gingrich or a Christie.

CUOMO: Let me push back, but this is largely speculative, but you know the man very well. Why balance all of a sudden? That's not what Trump is. Trump is all in 150 miles an hour all the time. Why balance it? That's not who he is. Why not go with Christie, who he obviously trusts, he knows he has his back because even though he went after him during the primary, you know, he went and kissed the ring first after that process. And he is a tough guy, and that's what Trump likes. Why not him?

CAPUTO: And that's a good point. Also, this whole idea of the familiarity, which is so important to get along so well with your vice president, and Gingrich and Christie both he a long history with Mr. Trump. That's why this is still pretty much a toss-up. Pence is kind of straight out of central casting, if you would. He would certainly calm the rest of the Republicans who are still not on the Trump train. Who knows, he might even bring along his neighboring governor John Kasich into the convention, and that might change the speaking schedule, by the way, if Kasich comes along. They're both kind of close. And so Pence brings some things to the table that Gingrich and Christie don't.

But you're right, I'll tell you. He's may choose somebody who is a firebrand as well. We've heard him say he wants somebody who is ready to fight, and then he comes back and says actually he is not looking for a fighter. I think in the end, it is going to be Mike Pence.

CUOMO: I think he is stringing us out beautifully and dominating the news cycle with this. We don't even talk about who Clinton is getting and it distracts from many other issues that we were talking about.

CAPUTO: He is an expert.

CUOMO: Yes, he is doing great. Good for him. It's working.

So the convention, you kicked out a lot of the typical names here. Even Sarah Palin is not on the list. What is the theory of why you want this amalgamation of names and new features at the convention?

CAPUTO: Mr. Trump said from the very beginning that he wanted to have a very, very different convention. He has watched a few on television, and, by the way, probably the presidential candidate in the history of the United States who knows how to read a ratings book, and he knows what has not worked in the past. These conventions have been notoriously slipping in the ratings on television, and he is looking to capture some eyeballs, to capture some hearts and minds via the television set, and nobody really is as good at that as Mr. Trump is.

I think we had a little bit of a limited group of people to choose from, because we had some, as I said earlier, restive Republicans who aren't quite there yet left some open slots. But I think it is going to be more interesting, nontraditional. I think the delegates themselves will be very much on edge looking forward to seeing what each one of these kind of nontraditional speakers has to say. I think that will translate well into the TV audience, too.

CUOMO: All right, so the polls are knotted up, and now we're getting the state of definition through the conventions, and then we'll get to the final sprint. Clinton came out with a big ad that seems to be what's going to be her big hammer for right now. Let me play you the ad and I want to get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I love the old days. You know what they used to do to guys like that when they were in a place like this? They would be carried out on a stretcher, folks.

And you can tell them to go -- themselves.

I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and I shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters, OK. It's like incredible.

When Mexico sends its people, they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crimes, they're rapists.

[08:10:03] You could see there was blood coming out of her eyes, blood coming out of her wherever.

You see this guy, "oh, I don't know what I said. I don't remember." He is going "I don't remember."

CLINTON: Our children and grandchildren will look back at this time, at the choices we are about to make, the goals we will strive for, the principles we will live by, and we need to make sure that they can be proud of us.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: I'm Hillary Clinton and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Are you going to vote for Clinton now?

CAPUTO: No way, absolutely not. But this is going to be an intense ad war, isn't it? It really is.

CUOMO: What do you make of that message? What do you think its plus and minus is?

CAPUTO: I'll tell you what. I think it is an effective ad. I think they've been running, one of those super PACs has been running that showed Mr. Trump apparently mocking a reporter, they are really damaging. And the Trump group, whether it is the super PACs or the campaign or whatever, they need to get on the air and they need to get on the air soon because these ads are hitting Donald Trump below the water line.

I do think that in the end, how she closes that ads going to hurt her, because in the end, people are going to make a choice. She's right. They're going to make a choice between change or eight more years of Barack Obama. And I think that's become fairly clear.

CUOMO: I wonder, is that the proposition change or not. I don't know I'm hearing that as much as I'm hearing this is almost a Hobson's choice for people. People keep talking about this choice in the negative, that it is who is less bad that they're going to choose. It's almost like a war attrition at this point. When you look at the negatives, they're both over 60 percent in terms of people you don't trust. I mean, how do you strategize in a situation like that?

CAPUTO: I think it's difficult, especially since we're now seeing a whole new group of voters that have never come out to vote before. I mean, at the Trump rallies, if you had done some serious deep diving into the demographics there, you would probably have found about half of them as registered Republicans, the other half Democrats and independents, and there is really no polling firm out there that is really measuring that right now.

For those of us who have had the pleasures of trailer park living, what we're looking at here is a really, really different choice. We're looking for leaders. And it's not always, when you're looking for leaders, that you're looking for someone that is milquetoast or someone who is easily affable or easy to get along with. Donald Trump is a man that is running at a very, very difficult time in this country. He's offending some delicate sensibilities. But in the end, I think that he is going to be victorious.

CUOMO: And it will all come down to something that is very boring, but as you know, all important, getting them to actually vote, getting them to the polls and following through.

CAPUTO: That's true.

CUOMO: Mr. Caputo, as always, appreciate the insight.

CAPUTO: Thanks, Chris, have a great day.

CUOMO: You, too, sir.

So Cleveland is going to be a big deal. And this is going to be the moment. We're going to have to see whether Trump can really get this party behind him and get going the way he needs to for final sprint. We will be there every day, and we will there early. We're going to start the show an hour early, 5:00 a.m. eastern all week at the Republican National Convention. Please, be sure to join, without question, the best political team in the business for CNN's primetime coverage that's going to begin at 4:00 p.m. eastern.

HARLOW: Meantime, in Dallas, a sea of blue, thousands turned out for those first funerals of the five fallen police officers. This as President Obama met for hours yesterday at the White House with law enforcement officials, civil rights leaders and Black Lives Matters activists, all talking about the racial divide and, more importantly, how to come together. Sara Sidner is live for us this morning in Dallas. What was it like there yesterday?

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The show of support was absolutely amazing. We know that Officer Michael Smith had a private funeral, but he will have a public one today, and we're expecting the same number of people to show up to honor him. But what was really extremely, extremely touching was the wife of the DART officer Brent Thompson. She spoke. They had just been married just a couple of weeks ago, and she talked about that being the happiest day of her life, and that it was all take away in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY THOMPSON, WIFE OF BRENT THOMPSON: Though I'm heartbroken and hurt, I'm going to put on my badge and my uniform and return to the street along with all of my brothers and sisters in blue. To the coward that tried to break me and my brothers and sisters, you know your hate made us stronger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIDNER: We also heard very wonderful words for Lorne Ahrens. He was the gentle giant. He was six-five, 300 pounds. But he used to volunteer at his children's school in is uniform.

[08:15:01] We also know that President Obama was here for the public memorial for all five of them. And then he returned to Washington try to get some work done between the racial divide, the officers and the African-American community. We know he spent four hours talking to law enforcement as well as activists, including Black Lives Matter activists, trying to come to some sort of terms to try to move this forward and find some solutions. Chris.

CUOMO: Sara, the question is simple -- how do we remove the divide? The answer, very complex. CNN hosting a town hall on the racial divide in America last night. At the same time, President Obama was hosting a forum between activists and police.

We're joined by two people who were at that meeting. What happened, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, no question, tension is high right now and the debate about policing in America is certainly front and center. So in the midst of all of this, CNN hosted a very, very emotional, passionate town hall last night that featured all perspectives in the racial debate, victims' families sharing their pain and their common hopes.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLOS ZAMARRIPA, BROTHER OF FALLEN DALLAS OFFICER PATRICK ZAMARRIPA: He would want peace. He'd want good to come out of all of this. HARLOW (voice-over): Two families, impacted by last week's violence,

coming together, stressing the need for unity.

ENRIQUE ZAMARRIPA: This has to stop.

[08:20:01] If I take another person's life, it won't make the other person's life come back.

QUINYETTA MCMILLON, MOTHER OF ALTON STERLING'S SON: Violence to violence is not going to ever going to be the answer to nothing. And I think we all come together to say that we want peace. We want peace for both families.

HARLOW: Activists and law enforcement, all joining a candid conversation about whether policing in America is inherently biased against blacks.

COL. K.L. WILLIAMS, KINLOCH, MISSOURI POLICE CHIEF: I have spoken to police officers who have told me that they believe that black people are genetically predisposed to be criminals, and it is their obligation to control these people by whatever means are necessary.

GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER SUPERINTENDENT, CHICAGO POLICE DEPT.: The history of African-Americans in this country started with slavery, then it moves to black codes, to segregation, and who was it who was enforcing those racist policies? It was the white police officer. So that narrative exists in the community based on the history and it's factual.

HARLOW: Questions on how to comply with police dominating the CNN town hall, many fearful and distrusting.

MONIFA BADELE, SENIOR CAMPAIGN DIRECTOR, MOMSRISING.ORG: Instructing people day in and day out that there's something in their behavior that brings on the abuse is tantamount to telling women that there's something that we do that causes street harassment and rape. We have to change the culture.

MARK O'MARA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We should not have a racial divide in this country anymore, but we do. So, I say if you're him, you do put your hands on the wheel. You do be careful, and maybe you do still have to be extra careful because you're black.

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can we just take a moment, as America, and register how profound and immoral it is to say this is the only thing that will keep you safe, is that if you pack this tool box, and you take it with you everywhere you go. And this is not the way that everybody has to behave; it is only the way that you have to behave. And that it's not your fault, and you have not done anything wrong, but it is because you are who you are, and they do not see you as the person that I love, but they see you as a person that they should fear.

HARLOW: A heartwrenching moment, as one mother shares her fear for her son. SHARAY SANTORA, MOTHER: Every moment he's not with me, I fear for his

life. I keep hearing you tell me to tell my son what to do. My 14- year-old is sitting right there, so you tell him he needs to be more respectful. You tell him he needs to be more compliant to your rules and your laws. Because I've told him and obviously it doesn't matter because you're telling me I'm not telling him enough.

HARLOW: Then this officer comforts her.

DIMITRI ROBERTS, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER: I'm sorry that we have not fulfilled our civil duty and our responsibility to you and this community and your children. And I'm sorry, and I just want to take a moment and say to you, I'm sorry.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARLOW (on camera): So this town hall came on the heels of a really big meeting yesterday at the White House, a meeting where activists from Black Lives Matter came together with lawmakers and law enforcement officers and President Obama hosted all of it. The goal, try to come up with some actual concrete solutions.

So what is going on? What is plaguing this country? Let's talk to two men who were there in the room for the nearly four hour meeting, Chief Terrence Cunningham, he's the president of the International Association of Chiefs of Police, and Rashad Robinson, he's the executive director of Color of Change.

Rashad, let me begin with you, because you -- you let out a big sigh as you watched that mother speak in the piece. What's going through your head watching that.

RASHAD ROBINSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COLOR OF CHANGE: Well, watching that is so much of the stories I hear every single day from our members. It's the stories within my own family, the stories within black communities . What more can we do? What more can we do to keep our community safe? But more importantly, what does our civil society, what does our elected leaders, what are law enforcement going to do to shift the burden from black communities, of what we have to do to tell our children, what we have to do to tell our young people, and people of all ages in black communities, to stay safe? How do we shift the burden from what individuals have to do to the system?

HARLOW: At the same time, we heard what the Dallas Police Chief, David Brown, this week -- you are asking too much of us.

So let me bring you in here as well, Chief Cunningham. Respond to Rashad, and also I'd like your response to one of our guests earlier in the program, the former superintendent of the Chicago police who said to Chris basically you're having a conversation about us, not with us.

CHIEF TERRENCE M. CUNNINGHAM, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CHIEFS OF POLICE: I agree with that. A couple of comments that I would like to start off with. First of all, I think what we're seeing here is a perfect storm. I think you're seeing this culmination of this feeling of loss of dignity on the part of the minority community, but I don't think that's just because of law enforcement.

[08:25:01] I think it is because of the failure of the social system around us. So I think it is not just law enforcement's issue to deal with. I do think the community needs to be involved in this.

Part of the conversation that we heard yesterday, it's really important that the police department reflect the community that they serve. Now, if we talk about that, clearly in communities across America right now, there is implicit bias. And we know that. So there are going to be implicit biases in some of the police officers in the communities that we serve. We as police executives, we need to root out those implicit biases and we need to make sure that we hold those people accountable.

HARLOW: One of the things Van Jones said last week on CNN that struck me so much, is he said we need to start on the front end. We don't need to just deal with, you know, bad individuals on the back end. We need to deal with it on the front end, whether it's training of police officers, whether it's working with community organizers. That just stood out to me.

But take me into the room, because we weren't there. Take me into the room with President Obama, what was said, what struck you most.

ROBINSON: You know, what struck me most, first of all, is how much time the president spent. I was in the last meeting with the president around civil rights and criminal justice issues in February, and we were there for a couple of hours, and even that seemed like a long time. But it was clear that the president really wanted us to concentrate on solutions.

I agree with the chief that many different people came from different walks of life and I think that folks are interested in looking at what we can do. Solutions were put on the table around data and around how we can think about federal resources. One of the things Color of Change, my organization, is doing is really looking at how we can hold police departments accountable through federal funds, both incentivizing good behavior but pulling back money when things are not done right.

But at the end of the day, what we actually need with all of these policies is accountability. So even if we're doing things on the front end, even if we're trying to ask for more training or mental health, if there is not accountability mechanisms, it won't work.

HARLOW: So let's talk about accountability. And you know, Comey, head of the FBI said it is, quote, "ridiculous and embarrassing that there is not better data on police-involved shootings". Chief, do you agree?

CUNNINGHAM: Yes, Poppy, I said that the other day. I said it is an embarrassment that we don't have that data. That that data is being collected by the media, not by the police agencies.

First of all, that's our data, we shouldn't be embarrassed by it. We should collect that data, we should take a deep cut into that data and see what it tells us. We should be able to frame our policies, be able to frame, you know, our discussions around how we police in the communities around the nation based on that data. So we should be collecting that and we've been working on that. The International Police Chiefs Association has been working with the FCI (ph) and all of our stakeholders to try and collect that data into a platform that we can use.

HARLOW: Before I let you go, what struck you most about the room yesterday with the president?

CUNNINGHAM: Two things. First of all, no matter what your politics are, you cannot question the president's commitment to this issue, number one. He spent two hours with us on Monday, and then he spent four hours with us again yesterday. So you cannot question his commitment. The second piece is we absolutely have to tamp down this rhetoric, this inciteful rhetoric that's out there that, you know, whether it's the hyperbole, the sound bites, we've got to stop that, OK. This is really about trying to find solutions to these problems.

HARLOW: Yes, let's get it done. Chief, thank you so much for your service and thanks for talking to us this morning. Rashad, thank you as well. We really appreciate it.

Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Poppy, great conversation. So important to keep it going.

The other big story this morning is what's going to happen in the election with the vice-presidential selection for the presumptive Republican nominee, Donald Trump. Newt Gingrich, he says he's in the running along with Indiana governor, Mike Pence. He sees it one or the other. Who has a better shot? Up next, we're going to talk to a senator who is no stranger to veepstakes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)