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3 Officers Killed, 3 Injured in Baton Rouge Attack; Trump Promises Strength and Toughness. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 18, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Monday, July 18, just about 5 a.m. local time here, 6 a.m. where Alisyn Camerota is in Cleveland at the site of the Republican National Convention. Of course, what happened here in Baton Rouge playing out in Cleveland, as well. And we'll be with Alisyn for that part of the story in just a moment.

[06:00:05] Here, the headline is as terrible as it is simple. Six officers were shot at by a murderer who took three police lives. The headline should be the names of those who lost their lives here, three officers. Montrell Jackson, 32 years old; Matthew Gerald, 41; and Brad Garafola. Their lives are gone. Their families will have to pay that price of loss.

There are also three officers who were injured. One, the name has not been released, but we understand his injuries are nonthreatening. Two others, Nicholas Tullier, 41, critical condition. Bruce Simmons is actually the officer nonlife-threatening. But there's an unnamed officer who is in critical condition in a local hospital. And he is continuing his fight.

The situation here began at 8:40 a.m. local time with a 911 call alerting authorities to a man walking down the street with a Long gun that turned out to be an AR semiautomatic rifle. And he was in black and a mask and ready to do battle. That's why he was here.

Boris Sanchez has the details of what brought these three officers down -- Boris.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

To give our viewers an idea, we're just down street from you, about a mile away from Baton Rouge police headquarters. This convenience store behind me is where all of this unfolded yesterday, where it started really, as police chased the suspect down through several businesses in this area, bravely going after him, even as he targeted them.

Right now, you see all these cameras here, but the scene has really cleared up. There's no yellow tape or any indication, really, that any of this happened less than 24 hours ago. We're told the investigation is still ongoing, though. Just yesterday officials interviewed two people for several hours in

relation to this case. There were no charges filed, and they were let go. That's in line with what sources are telling CNN. That the suspect was here in Baton Rouge with more than one person, but it's unclear just how much the people that he was with knew about this plot that he had hatched, a plot that has rattled this community and shaken law enforcement across the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Officer down! Shots fired! Officer down! Got a city offer down.

SANCHEZ (voice-over): Three officers ambushed and gunned down in Baton Rouge Sunday morning with three other officers wounded. At 8:40 a.m. officers spotting a man dressed in black, wearing a mask and holding an AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle near a convenience store. A law enforcement source says the killer, 29-year-old Gavin Eugene Long, a former Marine, was intentionally trying to lure in police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm hit. Left arm.

SANCHEZ: Two minutes later, gunshots rang out, the killer outgunning the officers at the scene. In the hail of bullets, three of them lost their lives: 41-year-old Matthew Gerald; 32-year-old Montrell Jackson; and 45-year-old Brad Garafola.

Police ending the rampage by shooting the gunman.

CHIEF CARL DABADIE JR., BATON ROUGE POLICE: Don't think that this can't happen in your country. We never would have thought that this was going to happen in Baton Rouge, but it has.

SANCHEZ: The attack coming just ten days after five officers were killed in the Dallas ambush by another former military veteran, 25- year-old Micah Johnson, gunning down officers protecting a peaceful protest to the police killings of Alton Sterling and Philando Castile.

COL. MIKE EDMONSON, LOUISIANA STATE POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: We want the prayers from around the country. You know, we're mourning just like Dallas. I mean, my two partners, my two brothers right here, I was in the hospital with them. I saw firsthand the grief on their face as they were trying to talk to the families. You know, this has got to stop.

SANCHEZ: Law enforcement sources tell CNN that the Baton Rouge killer rented a car from his hometown in Kansas City, stopping in Dallas, where he shot this video on his cell phone before carrying out the attack.

The five-year veteran was discharged as a sergeant and spent about six months in Iraq. He tweeted about the Dallas killer, calling him, quote, "one of us." And then a YouTube video urging viewers...

GAVIN EUGENE LONG, BATON ROUGE KILLER: You've got to fight back.

SANCHEZ: Tensions high in Baton Rouge since Alton Sterling's death nearly two weeks ago, Sterling's aunt pleading for peace.

VEDA WASHINGTON-ABUSALEH, ALTON STERLING'S AUNT: These people call these families, they tell them that their daddies and their mama's not coming home no more. I know how they feel, because I got the same phone call. Stop this killing. Stop this killing.

SANCHEZ: One of the slain Baton Rouge officers posting this plea on Facebook after the Dallas ambush. Quote, "Please don't let hate infect your heart." Montrell Jackson wrote, "If you see me or need a hug or want to say a prayer, I got you."

[06:05:05] President Obama yet again forced to address a mass killing.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need to temper our words and open our hearts, all of us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Until we come together and this madness continues, we will surely perish as a people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: Chris, we're also getting an update on that deputy in critical condition, Nicholas Tullier, a 41-year-old, who spent 18 years serving on the East Baton Rouge sheriff's office, we're told he's now clinging to life. He's fighting for his life right now.

Officials yesterday asking the community to send their thoughts and prayers to his family and the families of all the officers affected in this attack, Chris.

CUOMO: Absolutely. Boris, thank you. We'll check back with you in a little bit.

There's another officer, a third, who is in critical condition -- condition, as well. We have not gotten his name yet. When we do, we'll release it to you, as well.

And I do direct you to that Facebook entry from Montrell Jackson. Such a study in contrasts. As a police officer and as an African- American, he experienced these issues that we're talking about in this country, but he came to such a different conclusion than the murderer. He saw all the problems, but he also saw something else in humanity, which is hope to be better. That is not the conclusion that the murderer came to, who is now dead, as well.

Let's talk about what Baton Rouge means here in this community and around the country. We have Representative Garrett Graves. He is the congressman in this district here. And I want to bring back David Klinger, former police officer and professor who studies these issues of policing and the author of "Into the Kill Zone," which represents a lot of that reporting that you've done on it.

Gentlemen, thank you both.

REP. GARRETT GRAVES (R), LOUISIANA: Thank you.

CUOMO: Congressman, I haven't met you before, and I'm sorry that it's on this occasion.

GRAVES: Thank you.

CUOMO: What is the message to the community about how you come together after something that's so divisive?

GRAVES: You know, look, we can't allow the Alton Sterling shooting or these -- the shooting of the officers to pass without us extracting lessons learned here. To make sure that we do establish more robust dialogue among our community members, that we do talk about lessons learned, that we do talk about how to bridge the divide and address some of the underlying problems.

I think that the Alton Sterling shooting, to a large degree, served as a catalyst for some of these frustrations that were sort of under the radar to come out and manifest. But importantly, you know, the shooter in this case, it was very clear to us early on, this is not our community. This does not -- this doesn't represent us.

CUOMO: He's not even from here.

GRAVES: No, and very early on yesterday when we found out about this, we began saying that. This guy is not from here. This is not homegrown. It ended up being that he is from out of town.

You saw a marked shift in the reaction of the community last weekend when folks began coming in from out of town and began trying to change the narrative. The protests went from over by the shooting miles away, they brought it here to the police, trying to force confrontation. And it's just not the type of peaceful protest we were having prior.

CUOMO: So you wind up having a situation where the president comes out and says, "Killing of police officers is wrong, full stop." Now, there is a difference in these two types of deaths. When a cop kills a citizen, a use of force may be excessive, has to be investigated.

David, you don't need that when you have cops murdered. There is no need for an investigation. It's an absolute wrong. Except, people keep looking as if there's some kind of equation between these two.

DAVID KLINGER, AUTHOR, "INTO THE KILL ZONE": There's absolutely not.

CUOMO: And so how do you deal with that?

KLINGER: Well, first of all, in terms of the investigation, there has to be a thorough investigation of the murder, because there may be accomplices. There might be some...

CUOMO: True, other connections. We know that investigation is ongoing.

But in terms of whether it was a rightful, justified use of force, there's no question when a cop is killed.

KLINGER: Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's very important that people understand that, when a police officer uses deadly force, that that is investigated very thoroughly so that people have confidence.

And one of the things that we need to do better in American law enforcement is make sure that we give all the information that we can about an investigation as it proceeds.

But as you noted, murder of a police officer has absolutely nothing to do with use of force. There should never be any tit-for-tat. There's a -- there's a system in place in the United States for investigating the use of deadly force by the police. And if a police officer, such as the gentleman -- and I use that term loosely -- in South Carolina who gunned down that suspect who was jogging away, there needs to be an investigation. There needs to be a prosecution. He has his day in court.

That's the way that we do it in the United States. And if people think they can take the law into their own hands, we are in for a very, very rough ride.

CUOMO: Now, the murderer here of these police was not from here. He was from Kansas City. The cops tracked him, taking a rental car to the site of Dallas, making these videos, doing all the other things that he did.

But you do have issues in your community with policing that go far beyond what happened with Alton Sterling. Obviously, his death is something that is going to be a flashpoint. But there are issues. So where is the leadership perspective on this? What do you do to get better?

GRAVES: Look, there were two things that I think, when you look at the Alton Sterling video, you walk away with. No. 1, if he would have complied, this wouldn't have happened.

No. 2, if the officers Taser, if their use of nonlethal weapons had actually subdued the suspect, it wouldn't have happened.

One of the things that we did, we got together with the Democrat congressman who represents this area, represents New Orleans, introduced legislation providing additional research and development funds for nonlethal technologies for law enforcement, giving them additional tools.

Again, if the Taser had worked, I think that this would have been a very different situation.

The other thing that's important, though, is what do we do to help provide better leadership in the community for simple compliance with the officers? What is the source of this distrust, this frustration among law enforcement and some members of our community that -- that forced this narrative, resulted in this noncompliance with the officer's direction?

CUOMO: Couple questions. After an incident like this, they're going to say they need more force. They need to have AR weapons. They can't be outgunned by one maniac every time. And there's also going to be, on the flipside, saying you also need different levels of accountability. The body cameras, where are the body cameras? Where are the dashboard cameras? Where is that ability to see? Do you think that's just as important?

GRAVES: Well, look, in this case, we have body cameras. We have dash cameras -- that the officers are wearing. And so that's something that we have adjusted to in this community. But...

CUOMO: We know that that's an open question in the case with Alton Sterling, right, about where the body cameras were and that they were -- they didn't malfunction simultaneously right at the moment where you needed them most.

KLINGER: But here's the thing. If you're in a physical altercation with someone, that body cam, wherever it is mounted, is going to get shifted. And so my understanding is that that's what happened, is the body cam basically didn't malfunction as much as it got moved away. But there's still going to be an audio recording.

And if you listen very carefully to the audio recording that was on the one cell phone that basically was taken closer to where the shooting went down, you hear the officers giving orders. You hear the officer say, "He's going for a gun." And so there's a lot of information that we have. There's more that we can have.

But one of the things that really drove me nuts was someone immediately saying, multiple people, it's got to be a cover-up, because the body cams aren't going to malfunction. They didn't malfunction, from my understanding. They simply got knocked askew.

CUOMO: But you get what the frustration is?

KLINGER: Absolutely.

CUOMO: One other question I want both of you to take very quickly for time purposes, is that there is a call to have independent review of these cases when they have come up. And not just by the attorney general of the state but by an -- you know, some outside entity so there's no issue of compromise of conflict. Do you buy into that idea?

GRAVES: Look, in this case, absolutely. You have a situation like this that has -- draws as much emotion, absolutely. I think it's the right thing to do. And I understand the Baton Rouge Police Department, like many of the area police departments, is working in agreement with the Department of Justice to do just that.

KLINGER: My attitude is I want to have the best investigators investigate officer-involved shootings. And if the best investigators are the detectives who work for a particular police agency, then they should go ahead and do it.

But there are around the country a variety of different mechanisms where you'll have teams that will come in from the outside to various smaller agencies to do the investigation. No problem with that as long as these people who are doing the investigations are true experts. CUOMO: David Klinger, thank you both. Representative Graves, thank

you very much. Let us know how we can help this community heal.

GRAVES: Thank you.

CUOMO: Appreciate it.

All right. Do we have Alisyn Camerota in Cleveland?

CAMEROTA: Yes, you do.

CUOMO: All right. That is good news.

CAMEROTA: I have actually made it back.

CUOMO: I see you. I hear you. It is good to have you. Obviously, what's happening here is going...

CAMEROTA: Despite the technical gremlins.

CUOMO: ... to reverberate to where you area. I know. I knew you'd make it through. I knew you'd figure it out.

CAMEROTA: It already is. I plugged whatever was unplugged back in. But Chris, we'll be back with you.

There's a lot of excitement here in Cleveland. And of course, there's anxiety, as well, as the Republican National Convention gets off to a start because of those police killings that Chris has been covering.

So the Cleveland police union, they saw a situation that worried them. And they asked the governor for a temporary suspension of Ohio's open carry gun laws. But that's not what happened.

CNN's Ryan Young is live in downtown Cleveland along the protest route. Tell us what has happened, Ryan.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Alisyn. We're getting hit hard by rain at this point.

Behind us was a sign that showed basically the barricade where marchers could show up. And this is where they can march toward downtown Cleveland, about a mile away.

You talk about that open carry. The governor here says he couldn't suspend it. That's not his powers as governor. So there was something he could not do in terms of suspending that open carry law. Which, you know, officers are worried about it. You see two officers behind us who are watching this route. We saw a protest just yesterday as people were marching up and down the street. You could understand, with this current climate, officers are worried about the idea of people walking with guns, but that is the law here in this state, and that they're going to have to deal with that.

We saw officers surrounding these people yesterday. They talked about the idea of all the measures the put in place to keep people safe over the next few days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[06:15:07] CHIEF CALVIN WILLIAMS, CLEVELAND POLICE: Of course, there was some anxiety to make sure that the things we put in place were actually going to work the way we planned them. We always know, with an operation this big, that there are going to be some adjustments. And our plan is made so that we can adjust on the fly. And we've made some tweaks here and there. I'm sure throughout the week we'll make adjustments also.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG (voice-over): There's always an adjustment, including weather. You have rain here. Will protesters show up in force like we saw yesterday? Will they show up today with the weather the way it is? But you know the city of Cleveland has been provided about $49 million to pay for overtime and all the extra officers that are coming this way.

As someone who's covered not only a Super Bowl but NCAA basketball, I can tell you the increased security is something I've never seen before. When you're going through Cleveland, all the fences, it's something that is quite different. They seem to be ready for whatever is coming next -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Ryan, be careful out there, and I'm going to get you an umbrella, even though it's a prohibited item. Thanks so much for that reporting.

Well, the GOP convention gets under way in just a few hours, officially from now. There's a new CNN/ORC poll. It reveals that most Republican voters believe the party will eventually unite behind Donald Trump. Sixteen percent say the party is united right now. Fifty-two percent say it will happen; 28 percent say it will not happen.

Well, Donald Trump's wife, Melania, she will headline the first night of this convention in primetime tonight.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is live inside the Quicken Loans arena with a preview.

Hi, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn.

Well, you talk to Republican officials in the lead-up to this four-day GOP experience, and there are a lot of goals. Unity, as you just noted, is top on the list, showcasing Donald Trump and his brand-new running mate, Mike Pence, also up there. But one of the key components of the next four days, especially today in Cleveland, security and the need for it, both at home and abroad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Our world is spinning out of control. Our country's spinning out of control. That's what I think about. And I'll stop that.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump pledging strength ahead of the first day of the Republican National Convention.

TRUMP: Obama's weak. Hillary's weak. And part of it is that, a big part of it. We need law and order.

MATTINGLY: Weeks of national and international turmoil heavily impacting today's events, coincidentally themed, "Make America safe again." Trump slamming President Obama's response to Sunday's killing of three officers in Baton Rouge, saying the president doesn't have a clue. Tweeting that the country is, quote, "a divided crime scene, and it will only get worse." As all eyes are on the presumptive GOP nominee to see if he's ready to pivot to a more presidential tone.

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: It's not a change of -- a pivot. What it is, is a showing of the rest of the person. That hasn't been done in this campaign. The Donald Trump that I see on a daily basis is more than just a Donald Trump sitting out there in campaign rallies.

MATTINGLY: The campaign touting a different type of convention, one featuring fewer politicians and more voices with a personal connection to Trump.

MANAFORT: Oftentimes, other than the wife of the candidate, you don't see any glimpse into the personal life of the person being nominated for president. This convention is going to show Donald Trump from the viewpoint of his children.

MATTINGLY: Trump bucking tradition, even expected to introduce his own wife, Melania, before her primetime speech tonight.

TRUMP: The next vice president of the United States, Governor Mike Pence.

MATTINGLY: Indiana governor and Trump V.P. pick Mike Pence expected to speak on Wednesday. He and Trump giving a preview of their chemistry, acknowledging their differences in an interview with "60 Minutes."

LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES": What about the negative side? He apologized for being a negative...

TRUMP: We're different people. I understand that. I'll give you an example. Hillary Clinton is a liar. Hillary Clinton -- that was just proven last week.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's negative.

TRUMP: You better believe it. Hillary Clinton is a crook.

STAHL: That's negative. TRUMP: I call her Crooked Hillary. She's Crooked Hillary. He will

-- I didn't ask him to do it, but I don't think he should do it, because it's different for him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Alisyn, that dynamic between Mike Pence and Donald Trump, two very different individuals when it comes to how they carry themselves. Something to keep a close eye on throughout this week. Obviously, Mike Pence speaking Wednesday night.

But a lot of the Republicans are not speaking. Hillary Clinton's campaign wasting no time attacking them on just that, putting out their own schedule agenda over the course of the next four days with all of the top-tier Republicans, including people like Mitt Romney and George W. Bush, who are not speaking, with their names struck out -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Phil. Our panel is looking forward to talking about that "60 Minutes" interview that you just played a clip of because Donald Trump and Mike Pence did sit down for their first big TV interview together ahead of this convention.

[06:20:09] How did it go? Our panel is going to weigh in on that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Murder of police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge changing the tone of this convention here in Cleveland. Trump now casting himself as the law and order candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We need toughness. We need strength. Obama's weak. Hillary's weak. And part of it is that, a big part of it. We need law and order. We need strong borders. Our world is spinning out of control. Our country's spinning out of control. That's what I think about. And I'll stop that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So how will what happened in Baton Rouge and Dallas impact the convention? Let's discuss it with our political panel. We want to bring back CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory; CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner News, Errol Louis; and CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston. Thank you so much for being here.

Errol, I feel like I gave you short shrift last time, so what do you -- how do you think the tragedies in Baton Rouge and Dallas will change what we're going to see this week?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There will be some fairly small, I think, acts of recognition. You know, moments of silence and that sort of a thing. Beyond that, though, I think you've already started to see it. When I

got in last night, just kind of dining in the area and so forth, a row of cops came by. And they sort of got an innovation from people who were here drinking. And I think there Is a real feeling here, not even a partisan feeling so much, it's just as Americans that people really respect law enforcement, that it's an institution, broadly speaking, that still has support from the public. You know, more so here at this time than any other time, in fact, because of the tragedies that we've seen.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But is it a moment of unity or division? I mean, Donald Trump describing America as a divided crime scene suggests that he's going to use that personal characteristic of strength that he's trying to project. He's going to become the country's strong man that can fix this. And direct all that anger at institutions, weak leaders, as he says, who can't seem to solve this problem. I think he hopes to benefit from some of those who look at what's happened in America and see all this violence and this tension and see a need for change.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, have either of them talked about specifics in terms of what they'd do to try to mend this rift?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EXECUTIVE EDITOR: No. Look, Donald Trump just says he's going to fix it, and we are to believe that, in just a few words it will all be absolved when he becomes president and things will be great.

Hillary Clinton, in many ways, hasn't given any specifics either, other than talking about healing and unifying. What is going to be interesting over the next couple weeks, is will we see specifics in some of these speeches? I suspect no. I think we'll just have these broad themes and these declarations. But you will see two diametrically-opposed views about how to deal with the situation currently.

CAMEROTA: We also saw two contrasting views on lots of different positions last night on "60 Minutes." We saw Donald Trump sit down for the first time with Mike Pence, his running mate, for a big national interview. And these guys do not agree on everything. Some people on social media described it as somewhat awkward.

What did you take away from that interview, Errol?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, to the extent that the Republicans want to try and portray both a unified party and something resembling a big tent, a place where people of different contrasting views can all be at home and all get behind the ticket, that's what they were sort of trying to portray.

It was awkward, because it is awkward. This is a bit of a shotgun marriage. This is unity at the last minute, only because they've got to do that, because we're -- you know, we're closing in on a hundred days until the election. So I think that's really what you saw. I mean, the awkwardness is real. And it's not just personal. I mean, this is a party that's still trying to make up its mind.

GREGORY: It's really all about unity. I mean, he picked Pence, because he wants to unify the party of the Republican convention. He's got work to do.

CAMEROTA: Meaning the conservative wing.

GREGORY: The conservative wing of the party. And he also -- if Pence is to have a kind of temporizing influence on Donald Trump, that "60 Minutes" interview showed Pence getting totally run over by Donald Trump, when he said, "No, I don't speak from my heart. I speak from my head, too. It's an important difference."

There's not a lot of personal chemistry that one can discern. That doesn't have to be the most important thing, but that can get worse the less time they spend together over time.

It is quite clear that Pence is not going to be a big influencer or big adviser to him on issues because we know Trump relies on himself as a top adviser.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at a moment from last night. This is where the issue of the Iraq war came up. And Donald Trump has said over and over, "I was always against the Iraq war. It was a terrible vote. You know, nobody should have voted for it." But Mike Pence voted for it. So watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: That was a war that we shouldn't have entered, because Iraq did not knock down...

STAHL: Your running mate voted for it.

TRUMP: I don't care.

STAHL: What do you mean you don't care that he voted?

TRUMP: It's a long time ago. And he voted that way. And they were also misled. A lot of information was given to people. I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning.

STAHL: But you've used that vote of Hillary's that was the same at governor Pence as the example of her bad judgment.

TRUMP: Frankly, I'm one of the few that was right on Iraq. He's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.

STAHL: But she's not? OK.

TRUMP: No, she's not. She's not.

STAHL: Got it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Mark.

PRESTON: Awesome. Flat-out awesome. And here's the reason why. He's entitled to make a mistake, but Hillary Clinton's not entitled to make a mistake.

What Mike Pence did on the Iraq War was basically really -- really towed the line or really talked about what Republicans believed in when it comes to national defense and national security.

Donald Trump is not one of those types of Republicans. While -- while Mike Pence is somebody who is very traditional in all his Republican positions, Donald Trump is not. It really goes to show why he picked Mike Pence, to show that there was a huge weakness, an acknowledgment in the Trump campaign that he didn't have the support of conservatives that he needs heading into November.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, what's in it for Mike Pence?

LOUIS: Oh, well, a chance to become president. I think, what, 16 vice presidents have become present, even though a losing campaign sets him up nicely to be at the front of the line for 2020.

So politically, it makes sense. I've also got to just point out, Donald Trump insists, insists, insists that he was against the war. Nobody has found any evidence of that. No audio recordings, no written statements, nothing. It really didn't happen.

GREGORY: Pence wanted to run for president this go around, couldn't get off the launching pad. This gives him a better shot.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much.

Coming up in our next hour, Iowa Senator Joni Ernst will be here live. She'll be one of the key speakers at the convention tonight. We'll get a preview from her. And NEW DAY will be live, starting at 5 a.m. Eastern all the week here from the Republican National Convention.