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Christie "Prosecutes" Clinton In Mock Trial; Clinton To Announce VP Pick Late This Week; Trump's Children Get Personal About Their Dad; Trump Campaign Denies Wrongdoing In Melania's Speech; RNC Speakers Barely Address Economy Theme. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: We cannot make the chief law enforcement officer of the United States someone who has risked America's secrets and lied to the American people about it day, after day, after day. We didn't disqualify Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States, the facts of her life and career disqualify her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That was New Jersey governor, Chris Christie, blasting Hillary Clinton. We heard that a lot last night. That was his speech at the Republican Convention. Attacks on Clinton emerging as the common theme, though. She's mentioned more by speakers than even the nominee, Donald Trump, was.

So, joining me now is Democratic senator from Ohio, Sherrod Brown. He's endorsed Hillary Clinton and is on her short list for vice president. Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D), OHIO: Welcome to my city.

CAMEROTA: Your city's fabulous.

BROWN: I live six miles from here. The suit I'm wearing was made by union workers five miles from here, so --

CAMEROTA: Is that right?

BROWN: I'm thrilled you're in Cleveland, thank you.

CAMEROTA: I'm enjoying some good Cleveland food every night.

BROWN: This is a great city. It's coming back, it's doing well. Still lots of problems, of course, but having the convention here is a big, big deal for us. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: That's great. So what is it like to have the convention here and to hear all of Donald Trump's supporters? Basically, last night there were chants, in the convention hall, from his delegates and supporters of "lock her up, lock her up", referring to the candidate that you support, Hillary Clinton.

BROWN: Oh, it's -- I mean, I just watch -- watching the show, a couple of guests ago, talk about Lucifer and the -- I made a promise, as I said to you. I made a promise a week ago that I will not criticize the Republicans -- the Republican Party or Donald Trump while they're in Cleveland at this convention because I -- I mean, I'm not a host for this, per se, but it's in my city and I'm proud of that.

CAMEROTA: That's awfully gracious of you. I mean --

BROWN: But, I -- well, I -- gracious or not, I just think that I want to celebrate that they're here. There's plenty of time -- and I expect colleagues, of course, other Democrats to be critical but --

CAMEROTA: But as a supporter don't you need to speak out when you hear people saying things that you think are below the belt. I mean, I know that you want to extend the welcome mat to people in Cleveland, but isn't it incumbent upon you to say -- to correct them if you think that there's a --

BROWN: Sure, and I will defend -- I think that Hillary Clinton is -- when -- during the Ohio primary when I was with Bill Clinton in Akron, Ohio and Hillary was somewhere else in the state, and I introduced Bill but I said no offense, Mr. President, but Hillary Clinton's the most qualified person to run for president in my lifetime. And he agreed and applauded and the audience did, too.

So, there's no question how qualified she is, I'm just not going to make the contrast with Trump this week. But, how qualified she is -- this is convention rhetoric, red meat rhetoric. The people you hear this year have the same angry look on their face as they did four years ago talking about Barack Obama, just different words. Many of the same people, much of the same tone, the same anger -- a lot of anger on the stage and that's too bad but there will be time to answer all that.

CAMEROTA: Well, there are some things that Gov. Chris Christie raised that maybe now is the time to answer. One of the things that he talked about was that as Secretary of State he doesn't believe that Hillary Clinton prepared adequately for life after Gaddafi in Libya and that some of the chaos that we've seen there and the violence should have been thought out.

BROWN: So, let's debate those issue without name calling. I mean, look at -- look at the debates -- the tone of the Democratic debates versus the Republican debates leading up to this. And I think you can have these debates about Benghazi, although the committee that analyzed this, spending millions of taxpayer dollars, you know -- you saw -- you saw Hillary stand up to those committees.

CAMEROTA: Sure, not just the Benghazi but, I mean, Libya.

BROWN: No, not just Benghazi, but Libya, and yes --

CAMEROTA: You know, I mean -- BROWN: We can debate those but let's look at her record as Secretary of State. She built the foundation for the Iran agreement, which any fair-minded people say will keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of the Iranians. Will keep that -- will stop that nuclear program for a much longer period of time. It was a terrific victory for Israel, for the Middle East, for our safety.Let's debate her as Secretary of State, but let's not call her names and have people shout out things that just aren't appropriate.

CAMEROTA: Is no one going to call Donald Trump any names next week in Philadelphia?

BROWN: Of course they are, of course they are. But, I, again, will make the contrast between her qualifications and his. But, you know, he went through a whole primary where they called each other names and attacked each other's families, and that seems to be --

Again, I'm drawing a line here because I don't want to be particularly critical this week when they're in my city, but that led to this kind of speech at the convention. I mean, when somebody that was a presidential candidate talking about Lucifer, and just being on this show.

And I hear that rhetoric far too much and I know we'll hear it into November and it will be an angry campaign. But I wish we could talk about her record as Secretary of State compared to his business record. And talk to her employees and talk to some of his employees. I think those contrasts will be made and I think that Hillary Clinton lives on those.

CAMEROTA: We have learned that, as early as Friday, Hillary Clinton may be announcing her vice presidential pick. What have you heard?

BROWN: I've read those reports, the same ones you have, and I heard she's going to Florida and make the announcement with the vice president. I have no idea and I don't -- I don't -- I don't talk about this. I've not talked about this from the beginning.

CAMEROTA: I know you haven't, but are you interested in the job?

BROWN: I'm not talking about vice president no matter how you ask it, but Iappreciate your style and appreciate your persistence.

CAMEROTA: I hope you appreciate this next question on the same topic because we've heard that it has come down to two candidates. That's it's between Virginia senator, Tim Kaine and agriculture secretary, Tom Vilsack. Who would you like to see her pick?

BROWN: I knew they -- nice try. First of all, we have heard, you have heard it from --

CAMEROTA: Our reporting. Our CNN reporting has it.

BROWN: I've watched --

CAMEROTA: This is more than idle gossip. BROWN: OK.

CAMEROTA: This is CNN reporting.

BROWN: There is a chance that might be right, there is a chance it isn't. I don't know. I really don't know and I don't think that -- I know you don't know, I know I don't know. And I'm assuming that Tim Kaine and Sec. Vilsack don't know that either, but I don't know. I'm not avoiding, I just think it's proper -- it's improper for me to talk about it. And I know I'm saying I'm not going to criticize Republicans this week. I'm also not going to talk about the vice president. But have me back on Friday or Saturday and I will answer all your questions directly.

CAMEROTA: You've limited me to just talking Cleveland restaurants --

BROWN: OK, we can do that.

CAMEROTA: -- which is fantastic.

BROWN: We can talk -- here's what we can talk about. The last time a Republican convention was in my state was in this city in 1936 and the Republicans nominated Alf Landon, and he carried Maine and Vermont. I'm not predicting that their nominee this year will do that badly, but the outcome's going to be similar.

CAMEROTA: Senator Sherrod Brown, thanks so much --

BROWN: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: -- for being on NEW DAY. Great to have you here.

Well, Donald Trump's children were, of course, in the national spotlight last night. Did they do a good job of humanizing their father in their speeches? We'll look at their role in his campaign, coming up.

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[07:41:45] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Two of Donald Trump's children getting personal and very effective on stage about their dad last night. Did they humanize him with voters? How much does that matter?

Joining us now is CNN political commentator, Carl Bernstein. Carl, many topics deserve your perspective this morning but let's start with this. What is the perceived value and what do you believe will be the practical effect of what we heard from Donald, Jr. and Tiffany?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they were very helpful and I think you have to put them in the context of the whole convention. The case that Donald, Jr. made for his father being a builder is part of the narrative that they're trying to create at this convention.

But let's look at really what's happening here and that is, indeed, to say that Hillary Clinton is the issue in this election as far as the Republican Party is concerned, and that they have a candidate with a different vision. And I suggested yesterday that this election is really the Gettysburg of the culture wars of the last 30 years. And whoever wins this election, the culture wars are going to move or be decided in a definitive way.

CAMEROTA: What does that mean?

BERNSTEIN: Meaning that at Gettysburg we had a divided country, we had a civil war. We have a civil war going on in this country in terms --

CUOMO: What do you mean by infinitive, then?

BERNSTEIN: In that whoever wins this election. This culture war's been going on for 30 years. There is going to be a decision in this election that moves the country for years, and years, and years to come. And I think that that is part of what we're seeing in the way that the Republicans are going about it and Trump. He's a new kind of general in the culture wars.

CAMEROTA: But, just dig a little deeper on that for us. So, if Donald Trump wins then what does the culture of America look like through your lens?

BERNSTEIN: I think that -- well, there's no way to predict what the culture will look like except that the rules of engagement are going to be changed totally. He would be a new kind of president, not necessarily a capable or competent one, and that's her issue. That's the Democrats' response and we're going to see it at their convention every bit as tough going back at Donald Trump and his lying, which is pathological in many regards, as what they accuse her of.

So, we're in a scorched earth war and that's what we're seeing. And I think that this convention has been surprisingly effective in terms of fighting that war, including the kids, the way that the Trump people want it fought.

CUOMO: The idea of how this --

BERNSTEIN: So far.

CUOMO: Right. This is their --

BERNSTEIN: And people like -- people like Ben Carson, with that bizarre performance, can send it over the other edge.

CUOMO: Well, you know, it's interesting you say that because, you know, Ihave questions about what Dr. Carson does and its value for the audience. There's no question he was effective within a segment of his party, but I'd also figure it out.

BERNSTEIN: I don't even think he was terribly effective within his own party. I think a lot of people blanch -- and incidentally, somebody at CNN, I hope, will do a piece on her thesis. It's available to read. Let's move on from it. It's not the way he characterizes, it's very mixed. Also -- CUOMO: Also, Hillary -- the book is in there.

BERNSTEIN: I wrote "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton".

CUOMO: Right.

BERNSTEIN: The standard biography of Hillary Clinton. One of the absolute pillars of her life, and she's kept it under the radar, is religion. Always has been. Carries a bible with her, underlines it, looks for parables. The notion of Lucifer is so preposterous in what he was saying, let's not even go there.

CUOMO: But, preposterous doesn't make it ineffective.

BERNSTEIN: No, that's what I'm saying.

CUOMO: What we're hearing on the convention floor is she knowingly sent classified information to people who were unsecure.

BERNSTEIN: Look --

CUOMO: That's not true according to the FBI director, but it's true inside.

BERNSTEIN: What she did is indefensible. What she did, and Comey made it very clear, and one of the things that's happened that --

CUOMO: But not illegal.

BERNSTEIN: Not illegal in terms of bringing a case before a grand jury or into a courtroom. Whether it's illegal or not, he did not quite say. What she did is indefensible, it was reckless, she has lied about it, and that is why, especially after Comey, she is now baked in this perception among too many people in this country for her comfort as a liar, as distrusted. And so, we now have --

CUOMO: Over 50 percent.

BERNSTEIN: And we now have an election between these two people who are disdained by most Americans. We've never had a situation like this before and that's why we're in this scorched earth civil war, Gettysburg, whatever the analogy is. We're in a place we've never been before but what happens at the end of it is going to change our country irrevocably.

CAMEROTA: And that's why it was so interesting to hear from Donald Trump's children last night, particularly Tiffany, who you don't hear from as much because she did give a new light -- cast her father in a new light as sort of sensitive father that we haven't heard from. But, are they good enough witnesses?

BERNSTEIN: Well, first of all, I think Donald Trump, Jr. was very effective in a counter-narrative about the life of his father to what we've heard about him being a crooked businessman, and we're going to hear a lot more about that. Let's look at that question. He has a record of fraudulent dealings. He won't release his taxes -- unheard of for a presidential candidate.

And the terrible thing is Hillary Clinton can't effectively go after him on his taxes because she won't release her damn speeches that she was paid for in the Goldman Sachs instances. It is a terrible bind, she is. Her people know this election is up for grabs. Some of them are horrified, and what they're horrified at, particularly, old friends and supporters of Hillary Clinton who believe in her, is that she has made it possible, perhaps, for Donald Trump to become the president of the United States.

CAMEROTA: Carl Bernstein, always great to get your perspective on all of this. Thanks so much for being here.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

CAMEROTA: All right, the Trump campaign says the controversy over Melania Trump's speech is much ado about nothing. Are they right? We'll get perspective from a former speechwriter for George W. Bush, next.

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[07:52:00] CUOMO: So, first, let's just deal with what's true when it comes to this Melania Trump speech situation. If you put her speech segments next to Michelle Obama's, they're the same or substantially the same in several instances.

CAMEROTA: Partly.

CUOMO: Yes, portions.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

CUOMO: Substantially similar. What we're hearing from the Trump campaign, consistently since yesterday, again right now this morning, is that's not true. They are Melania's words, they are Melania's thoughts, and it is the media and Hillary Clinton who's trying to convince you otherwise. Does this matter? Is this going to resonate somehow? Let's talk to people who can take this question on in interesting ways.

We have senior editor for "The Atlantic" and former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, Mr. David Frum. And, senior editor for "National Review" and columnist for "Bloomberg View", Ramesh Ponnuru. They have a little phonetic there for you for your name. Isn't that nice, Ramesh?

RAMESH PONNURU, SENIOR EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW", COLUMNIST, "BLOOMBERG VIEW": Very nice.

CUOMO: So, Mr. Frum, as a speechwriter what is the sin here, if any, and what do you make of how the Trump campaign handled it?

DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": There are two sins. The first sin is plagiarism is stealing. You're taking something that somebody else did and presenting it as your own when you don't own it. You acquire ownership through your own creativity. The speechwriting process, where you write words for someone else -- that's with a contract. There's an understanding. One person agrees to have words written for another. That's not stealing, that's commerce (ph). So, this is stealing.

It also -- but in this case it's worse than a sin, it's a blunder because those words condemn Melania out of her own mouth. Once you know where they're from you suddenly realize how not true they are when they describe Donald Trump. His word is his bond, no. He keeps his promises, no. He treats people with dignity and respect, no. He values hard work -- well, after the plagiarism we can say obviously not true of that either.

CAMEROTA: Ramesh? Tempest in a teapot or is there something to this?

PONNURU: Well, they've made it into a tempest, themselves, by their ridiculous insistence that the sky is green in response to this controversy. So last night, Donald Trump, Jr. says we don't want Hillary Clinton responding to the 3:00 a.m. phone call about an international emergency. This campaign cannot handle a minor plagiarism controversy without rendering itself ridiculous.

CAMEROTA: What should they have done?

PONNURU: They should have just said we made a mistake and we will try to avoid it in the future -- done.

CUOMO: What are they betting on? Paul Manafort may be many things. One of them is not dumb or inexperienced in the ways of how to deal with scandal.

FRUM: Right.

CUOMO: But, what he's betting on here is, hmm, people don't like you. The people who are going to vote for me don't like you and don't trust you, Cuomo. So if you say that I did something wrong there's a chance I'm going to get past it. And, the people I want to vote for me say maybe they are lying about this little thing. Hillary Clinton lies about big things. We still win.

FRUM: He's betting that if he lies enough, and enough, and enough, you'll get tired of pointing out that he's lying. Anyway, by the time you get tired of telling him that he's lying, he'll be lying about something else.

[07:55:00] CUOMO: Except, I will tell you, the response that we've had to this situation is, in major part, one, you're right. Two, so what? She is much worse. Why don't you go after her for her lying instead of this penny ante lying that you're going after?

FRUM: But, you know, there comes a point where after there's enough incompetence, after there's enough lying, and after there's enough proof of really disturbing behaviors over a whole lifetime by Donald Trump, you begin to ask, is she worse?

CAMEROTA: Ramesh? PONNURU: And that's the response from Trump supporters. The problem is he needs to grow his support. It's not enough not to lose supporters because of this controversy, he needs to be broadcasting a message this week that is gaining him new supporters instead of talking about this totally self-inflicted wound.

CAMEROTA: OK, so to that end what do you think about when they have the bullhorn at the convention and the messages that they've been putting out? They don't want to put out the Melania plagiarism. They don't want to talk about that, we've been talking about that. But how about what they are talking about at the convention?

PONNURU: Well, they have wandered all over their themes, so there was almost no discussion of jobs last night, and that was a night that was supposed to be dedicated to jobs. You did, I think, have some effective speeches. I do think that Donald Trump, Jr. actually gave the more coherent and conservative speech than I've ever heard his father give, and set a higher bar for Trump, himself, to clear.

But at the end of the day it's a depressed convention. This isn't -- I have been to every convention on both sides from '96 onward. I have never seen less enthusiasm for the nominee than I've seen in that hall.

CAMEROTA: But, how do you say that because when we see the chanting and people worked up to a lather. People crying when they hear stories and people cheering. How do you -- where do you see lack of enthusiasm?

PONNURU: I see people leaving the hall early. I just -- it is -- you know, you always have people in the hall who are into the speech or excited to be there. It's just less this time.

CUOMO: But there's something else, as well. David, there -- I'm with the -- at a major state last night -- head of the delegation. I said so, how are you getting -- his state certainly has a lot of Republicans who aren't embracing Trump. How are you getting them there? One quick little phrase, he says -- she's worse, she's worse.

FRUM: Yes.

CUOMO: And that's what we're hearing echoed again and again in this convention. Why isn't that enough, given the climate in America right now?

FRUM: Here's why it isn't enough from just my crude political point of view, because Hillary Clinton has room to become, from a Republican point of view, less worse. She is going to have a convention next week. It's going to be run properly. The app will work, it won't be a disaster. There will be a schedule. It will be competent. If there's trouble it will be dealt with in a professional way.

And then she will have, night after night, a couple of nights to walk down her left and then two bigger nights to speak to maybe not that Trump supporter, but his wife and his children, and to say to them this man -- this Donald Trump represents something that, yes, if you're really locked into the Republican world you have to swallow it.

CUOMO: But she's just as upside down, positive to negative, as he is. And what can she do to make the email go away or the Benghazi go away?

FRUM: She doesn't have to do -- make -- only Republican partisans care about those things. Here's the one sentence that can turn this election around for her. I think taxes are high enough, maybe even too high.

CAMEROTA: Bam. There you go. Gentlemen, thank you.

CUOMO: Why is there no bam whenever I say anything?

CAMEROTA: That was theirs. Thank you guys.

CUOMO: The truth hurts.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to both of you.

CUOMO: Beaten again, and it wasn't even you this time. All right, we have a lot more convention coverage coming. Let's get right to it. Wow, my nose bleeding?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: Four years of Hillary Clinton will bring all the failures of the Obama years with less charm and more lies.

LESLIE RUTLEDGE, ARKANSAS ATTORNEY GENERAL: Deception and dishonesty are all second nature to Hillary.

RNC CROWD (Chanting): Lock her up, lock her up.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R), KENTUCKY: Hillary Clinton will say anything, do anything, and be anything to get elected president.

TIFFANY TRUMP, DAUGHTER OF DONALD TRUMP: Donald Trump has never done anything halfway.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESUMPTIVE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE: We are going to make America great again.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: The Clinton years are way over. Two thousand sixteen is the year America moves on.

DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF DONALD TRUMP: A president will unleash the greatness in our nation. That president can only be my father, Donald Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, July 20th, 8:00 in the East, and Chris and I are live here in Cleveland at the Republican National Convention. All sorts of excitement and all sorts of news being made here. You know, these things used to be snoozefests.

CUOMO: Who said?

CAMEROTA: Well, Ted Koppel.

CUOMO: Oh.

CAMEROTA: About 20 years ago he stopped going to it.

CUOMO: Good enough.

CAMEROTA: I mean, there were newscasters who stopped going to the conventions, so there were no news being made. Not so.

CUOMO: There was no CNN Grill then, either, kid.

CAMEROTA: Indeed. So, Donald Trump doing last night what many thought months ago that he would never be able to do. Thirteen months after launching his improbable bid, Trump has clinched the Republican nomination officially.