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Republican Convention Continues; Trump Becomes Official Nominee; Truth Behind Melania's Speech. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 20, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:07] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You know this story. Melania Trump gave a speech about her husband. It was well received. It was compelling. And parts of it were lifted from Michelle Obama's speech in 2008. This is a story that began here on NEW DAY yesterday, being taken to a new level by the campaign because they deny what I just told you. Let's see if this story can end here today as well.

To talk about that situation, and what's going on in the convention, and what is to come on the big night tonight with Governor Pence and then tomorrow with Donald Trump, we have the Trump campaign chairman, Mr. Paul Manafort.

Paul, thank you very much for coming back on the show to discuss this.

The first proposition I think to get out of the way is the simplest in many ways. The speech had portions of it that came from Michelle Obama's speech in 2008. It's as plain as day to look at them side by side. Can you acknowledge that and then move on?

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN CHAIRMAN: What I'm going to do, Chris, and you're right, for the final time, is to say that the speech that Melania Trump gave was a Trump - a speech that she felt was very personal to her. It was a speech that talked about her love of a country, how she immigrated here, the opportunities that America gave to her, how she came here and it talked about meeting a man named Donald Trump, who she fell in love with and raised a family with. And she wanted to talk to the American people about, you know, those - those personal feelings and thoughts.

The speech was very effective and it communicated those feelings. The controversy that you're talking about is not meaningful at all. She's not a candidate for office. She was expressing her personal feelings about her country and her husband and why he's best for the United States. And I agree with you, that's the final word.

CUOMO: Except, Paul, all of that can be true, except that you are denying by failing to acknowledge something that's also true, which is that some of those words came from Michelle Obama's speech in 2008. You have every kind of expert and anybody with eyes who sees that. You keep ignoring it. I don't understand why. I don't understand why you keep making this an issue.

MANAFORT: Because it's a speech that she gave talking about her feelings. She's not a candidate for office. I could get into all the reasons again. It doesn't make sense to go backwards. I think what we want to talk about today is that today the Republican Party has a nominee for president. A nominee who started a campaign about a year ago, everybody said was a long shot and then as it got - the chances got shorter and shorter and more likely, everybody kept saying why it wouldn't happen. And then last night, you know, at 7:17, Donald Trump became the nominee of the Republican Party, defying all the conventional wisdom, and put himself in a position to become the 45th president of the United States.

That's the story. He's the candidate running for president. It's his vision that the American people are going to be talking about. And we are all excited that in the last two nights, between Melania's speech and the speeches by Don, Jr. and Tiffany Trump yesterday, that the American people are beginning to get a glimpse beyond the campaign image of Donald Trump into the real man.

We're excited about it. The convention is working as far as we're concerned. And tonight we're especially excited that Governor Pence, the - Donald Trump's nominee for vice president, is going to get a chance to give - come on stage and present his credentials, which we think will even further embellish the chances of our party.

CUOMO: Paul, I understand all of that. The reason that this matters, though, is that, frankly, you're distracting from that storyline by refusing to acknowledge something that's true, and it plays into two issues. The first is, a big part of the case I'm hearing here at the convention for why Donald Trump needs to be president is that Hillary Clinton can't be trusted, that she doesn't level with the American people, which is another way of saying she lies. That is what this is going on right now with this issue that should be small about this speech.

[08:35:06] You don't like that you got caught with some of Michelle Obama's language in the speech. Who knows how it happened. You had a big group working with Melania don't want to acknowledge it because that's the way this campaign works.

That plays into the second problem, which is that when faced with something that you did wrong, you just deny it, no matter whether it's true or not. Whether it's the man who has a developmental disability who works for "The New York Times," and Donald Trump mocks him and then says, no, I didn't. Whether it's a star that represents the Star of David and you say, no, it's a sheriff's star.

There is a pattern, whether it's Baron, John Miller, that was really Donald Trump. There's a pattern of denying the obvious. What happens when you're running the government of the United States and you don't want to deal with what happens then. That's the concern. That's why I don't understand you won't just own this little thing and move on.

MANAFORT: Well, Chris - well, Chris, I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder because the pattern that I see is a pattern of the media not being prepared to look at what's really going on in America, not look at what's really happening in the Trump campaign. Look at what really is being tapped into and looking at why it's working, not why it's failing, why it's working because, you know, over the last 10 months, as you all have been pointing out things which aren't true, to say that this is going to be a problem for the Trump campaign, you've been wrong consistently.

The American people disagree with your perceptions of all the things you've just said.

CUOMO: But there's two different things.

MANAFORT: No, it isn't, it's the same thing.

CUOMO: There - they are two different things.

MANAFORT: Because you're looking at things that don't exist. You're looking at things that don't exist and you're not focusing on the broader message that does exist in which the American people are responding to. And last night Donald Trump, contrary to everything you've said, was nominated president of the United States.

CUOMO: But - but, Paul, that is demonstrably untrue. But that's untrue. That's untrue and I don't know where you were at the beginning of this campaign, but I would have loved to talk to you then and say, do you think Donald Trump's going to be the nominee.

MANAFORT: I'd love to do that.

CUOMO: I don't think it makes you crazy or jaundiced to have been surprised about it. And there's also no question that you deserve a lot of credit for getting him where he was last night and you know I've said that openly and often.

MANAFORT: No.

CUOMO: But I've got to - I've got to go back to this other point, though, Paul. I just have to. The idea that we're ignoring something that doesn't matter flies in the face of what we're about. This is about the truth. It's about the truth. And that's all it's about. The language came from Michelle Obama's speech.

MANAFORT: And the truth - and the truth - the truth is the words that - the truth is the feelings that were expressed by Melania Trump that night, which you don't want to focus on. It was the message that she was communicating. That's the truth. And that message reflected her - her - her heart.

CUOMO: Of course I want to focus on it. We say she gave a good speech. We say it was compelling. The words were the same that Michelle Obama -

MANAFORT: Well, then move on. Then move on.

CUOMO: But I can't move on because you keep lying about it, so I can't move on from it, because I have to talk about what is true.

MANAFORT: Chris, I'm not lying about anything. I'm not lying about anything, Chris. CUOMO: Did the language - did a portion of the language of that speech come from Michelle Obama's speech, yes or no?

MANAFORT: As far as we're concerned, there are similar words that were used. We've - we've said that. But the feelings of those words and the commonalty of those words do not create a situation which we feel we have to agree with you. You want to have that opinion, fine. You want to talk about it for the next six months, I'm not going to be here because I've got other things I've got to talk about.

CUOMO: It's not an opinion. That's the problem.

MANAFORT: OK, well, that's an opinion and -

CUOMO: No. Hey, listen, Paul, I'm not here to beat you over the head with it. I thought you were going to come on to own something that small and move on to all these other great things that you have to discuss about what's going on at this convention.

MANAFORT: I - I came on to talk about tonight - I came on - I came on to talk about what's going on in this convention and the fact that Donald Trump was nominated yesterday against all conventional wisdom to be the president of the United States. And the party is united. And as we move forward tonight, we're going to have a vice presidential nominee.

I came on to talk about things that the American people care about the excited that the party here is feeling for the convention. And I hope that you eventually can start focusing on those things too.

CUOMO: We've been talking about it - we've been talking about it all morning long. There's no question that what you're trying to do here is working to a large degree. I'm just giving an obvious suggestion, which is, when I'm on that convention floor at night - as you know, we're there every night - people are saying, Hillary Clinton, I can't trust her. I think she lies. Donald Trump won't lie to us. That's what this situation goes to. And, as you know, people are wondering why the campaign handled it this way.

MANAFORT: So, go - then move on.

CUOMO: Well, but I'm just saying, you make it impossible to move on when you won't acknowledge what we know to be true. That's all. And I don't know why you're blaming us for that. That just doesn't seem very fair.

MANAFORT: Because you've spent seven minutes talking about something that's not relevant to anybody but you in the media, not to the American people, that's why.

CUOMO: The truth is irrelevant to anybody but us?

MANAFORT: Look - I mean, look, you can keep talking about it. The truth is, look, I'm telling you the truth. I'm not a liar, contrary to what you just said.

CUOMO: All right. No, no, no, I'm not calling you a liar. I'm talking about this one specific thing. I'm not making a character assessment.

MANAFORT: You did call me a liar.

CUOMO: That's not my place. I'm saying that you're lying about this - the words not having come from Michelle Obama's speech because, as we both know, they did. But let's - let's leave the issue where it is. Both of us have been very clear about it. People can decide.

MANAFORT: That's a good idea.

CUOMO: I guess. But looking at tonight, there's no question it matters.

MANAFORT: I agree. I think you -

CUOMO: We're here to cover it. What are we going to hear from Mike Pence tonight that you believe cements the case, until we get to Donald Trump, because in many ways Mike Pence is the last big speaker before the big man himself tomorrow night.

[08:40:09] MANAFORT: Well, actually, he's the last big speaker. But the first one tonight that I think I'd like to call your attention to is Eric Trump, who's going to give a very poignant presentation of growing up with his father and what it's meant to him and the kind of figure he has been in his son's life. I think you'll find that speech very, very moving.

Then Governor Pence is going to talk about - really be introduced to the American people. A lot of people don't know him yet. He's been - even though he's had an active career in Congress and as governor in Indiana. Tonight, he gets to be front stage in front of millions of people and talk about his record in Washington, his record in Indiana, and, more importantly, why he believes that Donald Trump should be the next president of the United States.

We feel at the end of tonight, the American people, and certainly Republicans, are going to be very comforted by the fact that he was chosen by Mr. Trump, and we'll seen again an example of the decision- making process that Mr. Trump goes through when he - when he - when he made this vice presidential choice. It was the most important decision he could make up and to this point in time. And the process he undertook and the candidate that he selected are testament to the kind of things he'll be doing as president of the United States.

CUOMO: No question that this decision really had an impact within the party.

A couple of surprises that maybe you want to help us out this morning. One, do you think Ted Cruz is going to use the language, I endorse Donald Trump, and do you think we'll see Mr. Trump again tonight in some shape or form?

MANAFORT: I think that Senator Cruz - no, I have not seen his speech, so I can't tell you what he's going to say. I think he'll be talking to the same kinds of issues that - that he talked about in the primaries and also are consistent with what Mr. Trump is talking about. I think you'll see at the end of his speech tonight that Senator Cruz will be part of the - of the campaign going forward. In what capacity, I'm not certain. But his words will - no doubt that he wants Donald Trump to be the next president of the United States.

CUOMO: Paul Manafort, thank you very much for coming back on NEW DAY to address what happened with the speech and what the convention's going to be for you tonight and tomorrow. Appreciate it.

MANAFORT: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Paul.

All right, let's take a quick break here. When we come back, there's no question that Republicans are trying to present a unified front at the convention, and there is no question that how this has been handled, this Melania Trump speech situation, by the campaign has impacted what's going on at the convention. So when we come back, we'll discuss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump is officially the GOP nominee for president. We don't have to say "presumptive" any more. But does that mean the party is now unifying behind him? Well, many Republicans say they are still not on board. Here to discuss is Wyoming Senator John Barrasso, who is the chairman of the GOP Platform Committee. He has endorsed Donald Trump.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R), WYOMING: Thank you, Alisyn. Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: Great to see you.

BARRASSO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: So, a lot of excitement, obviously, here in Cleveland.

BARRASSO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: But in terms of party unity, last night when Senator Mitch McConnell walked on stage, the crowd booed him. That doesn't sound like party unity.

[08:45:07] BARRASSO: Well, we're united in getting a Republican president into office who can focus on the things that the American people and CNN's search engine this morning is saying people are concerned about, jobs, the economy, national security. That's what this election is really about. And we are unified, our platform's unified on that, our policies are unified on that. That's what the American people care about.

CAMEROTA: But does that booing last night representing that there still is an establishment wing and then there's the Trump wing and that those two never the (INAUDIBLE) shall yet meet? BARRASSO: You know, we used to have a sports announcer in Wyoming and he called it "good natured booing." We are united in terms of making sure Donald Trump is elected. We need a Republican in the White House. The Supreme Court, we're looking at three or four Supreme Court nominees to be brought out by the next president. We're united in working to make sure Donald Trump becomes the next president so we can put in place the kind of policies that will get the country moving again in the positive direction we need. You know, two-thirds of Americans said the country's heading in the wrong direction. We need a fundamental shift in the direction of the country.

CAMEROTA: All right, then let me bounce this article that is in Politico this morning off of you. They say that there is a shadow convention happening outside of the cameras, not in the convention center. That somewhere else in sort of dark rooms, back rooms, and hotel suites about what happens in Donald Trump loses, and how to preserve congressional and senatorial seats and the party. Do you know anything?

BARRASSO: Well, I haven't seen what - as you referred to as a shadow - I was here for three days as chairman of the platform committee, last week here since Sunday. We are focused on maintaining the Senate, maintaining the House, so we are a majority party that can put on the president's desk legislation that Donald Trump will sign, but we know Hillary Clinton would veto in terms of got government regulations, in terms of taxes. All the things sorts of things that make it easier to create jobs in America. We know Donald Trump will sign those, and Hillary Clinton will not. Because national security isn't just about borders. You know, it's about economic security, energy security. That's what people are concerned about at home. That's what I hear about in Wyoming every weekend and all across the country.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the party platform that you are spearheading. How much of a role has Donald Trump had in crafting that platform?

BARRASSO: Surprisingly, very little in terms of trying to influence. I met with him twice leading up to the platform committee meeting. He said, let the people come together and make the platform. We have 112 members of the platform committee, two from every state and the territories. We have 112 people. We did it on C-SPAN, open to the public. The Democrat platform has been written behind closed doors by just 15 people with heavy liberal, liberal influence, by Bernie Sanders, that gets away from right to work, it raises taxes, it makes it harder to use American red, white and blue energy and is really, I mean, it's amazing how little it focuses on economic growth, which people care about. It focuses on economic redistribution.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about this.

BARRASSO: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Interesting that you raise Bernie Sanders because there is reporting from CNN that at Trump's urging, the GOP formally endorsed breaking up America's big banks, and that was something that the Republicans had not previously wanted to put in the platform. BARRASSO: Well, there are a couple of articles written about that. The

platform was crafted by 112 people who were there. There were lots of amendments, hundreds of amendments to the platform. And there is, obviously, a populist tone to the platform, which reflects who's happened over the last four years and certainly the last couple of years.

CAMEROTA: So you came around to the populist tone from a different position?

BARRASSO: The platform committee of 112 people, two from each state, came forth with - I mean basically the delegates worked their will without the influence of Donald Trump trying to steer the committee one way or the other. This represents the views and the values of the party. Now, nobody agrees with every specific plank of the platform. Presidential candidates from both parties over the years, you know, never adopt fully the platform. But this is a conservative platform. It represents focusing on the issues that people are concerned about. The - this really is focused on jobs, the economy, and security for the nation.

CAMEROTA: And we'll hear more about that tonight.

BARRASSO: We will.

CAMEROTA: Senator John Barrasso, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY. Great to see you.

BARRASSO: Thanks, Alisyn. Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: All right, moments ago you heard the Trump campaign manager, Paul Manafort, right here and he was continuing to deny any wrongdoing in Melania Trump's speech. So what does his predecessor think about this? We're going to hear from Corey Lewandowski, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:07] CUOMO: Moments ago, Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, was on NEW DAY again, and once again says there was no plagiarism presents in Melania Trump's speech. He also said a lot more. Let's discuss.

We'll bring in a good panel for this. We have Jennifer Granholm, the former governor of Michigan and senior adviser to Correct the Record. She obviously supports Hillary Clinton. CNN political commentator Corey Lewandowski. You know him, former Trump campaign manager, still receiving severance from the Trump campaign. And he is the chair of the New Hampshire delegation here at the Republican Convention. We also have our brother, CNN political analyst David Gregory, host of "The David Gregory" podcast.

Corey Lewandowski, OK, you have come at me plenty in the course of this campaign. Tell me what we are doing wrong in this situation, and why it's OK for the Trump campaign to deny what is obvious to my 10- year-old. COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think what the

Trump campaign wants to talk about is the success of this convention. The fact that Donald Trump today is no longer the presumptive Republican nominee, he is the Republican nominee.

CUOMO: Beautiful.

LEWANDOWSKI: That is -

CUOMO: Spin is great and that's the truth. However, you keep saying that this isn't plagiarized. Nobody thought it was a big deal. Nobody. I think I even got scolded for saying it wasn't a big enough deal when it first started. But he won't admit it. The campaign won't admit it. That keeps it going. Why is that not understood?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think, I - really what I think this comes down to is making sure that the people who saw Melania Trump understand that her words were her words. And she wrote the broad strokes of this speech, and she delivered them so eloquently and so gracefully, and it was a great opportunity for her to be introduced to the American people.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: And what I have said is that the people who finalized and put those minor details into the speech -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: Should be held accountable.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's not Melania Trump.

CAMEROTA: Right.

LEWANDOWSKI: And all I think we need to understand now is that the speech is done. It's time to move on from that and talk about Donald Trump as the Republican nominee for president of the United States.

CAMEROTA: Not so fast. Paul Manafort was just on NEW DAY moments ago, and he has a different take, I think, than you do, which is basically it didn't happen. So listen to his interview with Chris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANAFORT: The truth is the words - the truth is the feelings that were expressed by Melania Trump that night, which you don't want to focus on. It was the message that she was communicating. That's the truth. And that message reflected her words, her heart.

CUOMO: Of course I want to focus on it. We say she gave a good speech. We say it was compelling.

MANAFORT: Well, then move on. Then move on. CUOMO: The words were the same that Michelle Obama - but I can't move

on because you keep lying about it, so I can't move on from it because I have to talk about what is true.

MANAFORT: Chris, I'm not lying about anything. I'm not lying about anything, Chris.

CUOMO: Did the language - did a portion of the language of that speech come from Michelle Obama's speech, yes or no?

[08:55:00] MANAFORT: As far as we're concerned, there are similar words that were used. We've said that. But the feelings of those words and the commonality of those words, they're not create - a situation which we feel we have to agree with you. You want to have that opinion, fine. You want to talk about it for the next six months, I'm not going to be here because I've got other things I've got to talk about.

CUOMO: It's not an opinion. That's the problem.

MANAFORT: OK, well, that's an opinion and -

CUOMO: No, but, hey, listen, Paul, I'm not here to beat you over the head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. I don't know where to begin, governor. The similarity of those words and the commonality of those words may have been there, but that's your opinion.

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, SENIOR ADVISER, CORRECT THE RECORD: Yes, it's a -

CUOMO: It sounds like is is, not to rub any salt into the old Clinton wounds, but it does.

GRANHOLM: Yes, exactly. It's a - it's an insult to people who - everyday people who are watching this, who see these two side by side.

I mean, Corey, I appreciate what you were saying because what you said basically was, yes, somebody has to take responsibility for this. Somebody has to stand up. So there's an admission there, which we all see.

Chris, your point I think is really valid because it is a proxy for the whole campaign when they deny this. When they essentially lie about what happened. And the proxy, again, which is evident last night in all these speeches, where there were all of these misstatements, lies, whatever, by - as confirmed by fact checkers, et cetera, that kind of thread does not work for them when they're trying to prosecute a case like this against Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: Well, and - but - and, look, and this is the part of the conversation then you don't like, governor, because, David, that is their case and it's an effective case. Did Hillary Clinton commit a felony with the e-mail? No. But did she lie, yes. There are lies, demonstrable lies, authorization, where it was, how many devices. So that's their case. It's a good case. But isn't it hurt when they're playing the same game. And I keep pointing at you because you're still getting severance, and as long as you are, I'm going to keep pointing. So, you know, is there some there there in what I'm saying?

DAVID GREGORY, HOST, "THE DAVID GREGORY SHOW" PODCAST: Bottom line is that Paul Manafort, who is a proxy for Donald Trump, is not leveling with you, has not leveled with you in two interviews on two successive mornings, and they're not leveling with the American people. And Donald Trump's big calling card at this convention is, he tells the truth, he tells it like it is, he's not politically correct, and Hillary Clinton lies.

Well, the Trump campaign does not level with the American people on small matters that have come up, whether he's made fun of people, whether there's plagiarism. Plagiarism is a big deal if you're a journalist or if you're a college student, by the way, and you use words that are not your own. It may not have a huge political impact, but leveling with the American people is important and they're not doing it here. And they refuse to answer the question.

You spent time with Manafort where he just didn't answer the question. He wants to focus on what he wants to focus on. Corey is making the same points because he's, you know, he's got a point of view about all of this. That's all fine.

Bottom line is, is Donald Trump leveling with the American people? That's the test. And the people who are watching this convention, who are making a decision with whether Donald Trump is qualified to be president, he has the temperament to be president, and how he's going to handle these kinds of situations if he's commander in chief of the United States military and president of the United states -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GREGORY: You make judgments based on these moments.

CAMEROTA: Corey, explain how this works inside the campaign. When something comes up that's uncomfortable, it seems as though the campaign deny, deny, deny. It seems like that's the MO in the campaign. Why not just acknowledge it? Why didn't they do that from the get go?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think what you have is you've got, you know, Melania Trump, who came up with the thoughts of what she wanted to convey to the American people, and then she had a small team of different writers who probably assembled some different words and brought them forth to her and she read those and she felt comfortable with them is my - is my opinion.

CAMEROTA: Great.

LEWANDOWSKI: And then what happened was - and, look, just what Reince Priebus said, he said it yesterday, someone should be fired is what Reince Priebus said. The chairman of the GOP, who has been a staunch advocate for Donald Trump, came out and made that claim first yesterday morning and -

CAMEROTA: Perfect. So then why does the campaign always deny? What's going on inside the campaign that they deny things?

LEWANDOWSKI: I think it's not a matter of denying, but what - what this is about now is moving forward, OK. This is not going to make a difference. This is not going to change what people are going to vote for. And, look, I think Melania Trump is going to make an amazing first lady. She's going to do an amazing job. And for - for the narrative to perpetuate, I think is - is unfortunate to her because this is not her responsibility. It's not what she did.

CAMEROTA: Sure. We've moved on to why the campaign denies it. Instead of just coming forward and saying, whoopsy, daisy, OK, we'll - we'll change.

GREGORY: But can I just (INAUDIBLE) - part of what's happening here is sloppiness in the campaign, Corey. Now, this campaign was an insurgent campaign for a long time. It spent a lot of time trashing the Republican National Committee, not wanting to work with the committee, having to make amends, and then moved all of a sudden where here you're going to get the nomination and now there's sloppiness in terms of campaign 101, making sure that the spouse gives a clean speech. And that's the kind of thing that raises questions.

GRANHOLM: Which is - which is another proxy for how you're going to govern. Not just on the lie part, but on the organization. How do you amass a massive organization like a government when you can't even run your campaign.

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, look, the difference is that, you know, Hillary Clinton was inside the government and took advantage of the rules of the government and is not being prosecuted because there are two sets of rules, one for the rich and powerful and one for everyone else. That's not what would happen in a Trump administration.

CAMEROTA: We're going to give you the last word. Thank you very much.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

CUOMO: That's a heck of a (INAUDIBLE) as long as you don't mess it up with how you run the campaign.

CAMEROTA: We'll see you all - we'll see you all tomorrow.

NEWSROOM with Carol Costello starts right now.