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Ted Cruz Booed After Refusing To Endorse Trump; Are Trump & Pence on the Same Page?; Trump to NYT: Backing NATO Allies Not Guaranteed. Aired 5-5:30a ET

Aired July 21, 2016 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: America is crying out for something new.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Stand and speak and vote your conscience.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: To paraphrase Ted Cruz, if you want to protect the Constitution of the United States, the only possible candidate this fall is Trump-Pence ticket.

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R) FLORIDA: Democrats have not led us to a cross roads. They have led us to a cliff.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: Hillary, enough is enough. America deserves better.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Never have I been more proud to be a Trump.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. You are watching NEW DAY. We are live from the Republican National Convention in Cleveland.

Another exciting night. Up first, what was Ted Cruz thinking last night? Cruz refused to endorse Trump, instead telling Americans to vote their conscience. That suggestion was met with thunderous booing from the crowd.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The drama set up the highlights for Trump because he had a couple.

[05:00:02] Another son stepped up for him and delivered, as did the V.P. nominee, Governor Mike Pence.

So, now, it comes down to the man himself. And we hear Trump has something special in store for tonight. We have every angle covered the way only CNN can.

Let's begin with CNN senior political reporter Manu Raju live inside the convention hall -- Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: It was tense inside this conventional hall when Ted Cruz refused to endorse Donald Trump. As Ted Cruz was delivering the speech, the Republican delegates were growing increasingly anxious. And when he decided not to endorse Donald Trump, things got ugly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: I want to congratulate Donald Trump on winning the nomination.

RAJU (voice-over): It was all downhill from there. Ted Cruz delivering a 25-minute speech that may follow him forever, refusing to endorse Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention.

CRUZ: Stand and speak and vote your conscience, vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

RAJU: Cruz mentioning Trump's name just once during his primetime addressed. The crowd angrily interrupting the speech. Then Trump suddenly appears in the stands up staging the GOP runner up yet again.

Trump later tweeting, "Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage. Didn't honor the pledge. I saw his speech two hours early. But let him speak anyway. No big deal."

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Donald Trump made the offer to speak without any condition. He thought Senator Cruz might be little bit more politically smart.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I think it was awful and quite frankly, I think it was selfish. And he signed a pledge. It's his job to keep his word.

RAJU: Cruz later not backing down.

CRUZ: I laid out a very simple standard. We need a president to defend the liberty and be faithful to the Constitution. I hope very much that is who the next president will be.

RAJU: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich trying to reframe Cruz's comments as party unity.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I think you misunderstood one paragraph that Ted Cruz, a superb orator. Ted Cruz said, you can vote you conscience for anyone who will uphold the Constitution. In this election, there is one candidate who will uphold the Constitution. The only possible candidate this fall is the Trump/Pence Republican ticket.

RAJU: But angry delegates in the arena couldn't be subdued. Video posted on Twitter shows security escorting Cruz's wife Heidi out of the arena while being heckled by Trump supporters.

But two of Trump's former rivals showing they can put the bitter campaign season behind them.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: The time for fighting each other is over. It is time to come together.

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: A vote for anyone other than Donald Trump in November is a vote for Hillary Clinton.

RAJU: Trump also getting more support from one of his kids.

ERIC TRUMP, SON OF DONALD TRUMP: It is an honor to be here for a man I love so, so, so, so much.

RAJU: The Republican nominee listening in the audience as his son Eric praised him.

E. TRUMP: My father has revitalized rundown neighborhoods and shaped skylines across the country and turned dreams into reality his entire career. It's what he does. It's who he is.

RAJU: And after days of denying, Melania Trump's speech is plagiarized --

CUOMO: I can't move on because you keep lying about it. Did a portion of the speech come from Michelle Obama's speech? Yes or not?

MANAFORT: As far as we're concerned, there were similar words that were used.

RAJU: On Wednesday, a Trump aide offered to resign over the firestorm, admitting that it was a mistake to lift passages of Melania speech from Michelle Obama's 2008 address.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTAIL NOMINEE: I thought it was terrific to come forward and saying it was a mistake. She thought it was unfair to Melania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Now, the blowback over Cruz's speech was swift and fierce.

Afterwards, Ted Cruz went to go visit the billionaire donor Sheldon Adelson upstairs in the convention hall. But Adelson would not see Ted Cruz, furious over Cruz's refusal to endorse Donald Trump -- Chris and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Manu, you have given us a lot to work with. Thank you for that report.

Let's discuss it now with our panel. CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis, and CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory.

Great to have all of you here this morning.

What was Ted Cruz thinking? DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: That he wants to run for 2020

and that he is making a calculation that he can be the defender of conservatism in the Republican Party, and that he's taking a stand.

[05:05:05] I mean, don't forget, this is a primary fight that included Donald Trump accusing his father being part of the JFK assassination, of being critical of his wife in a very ugly and personal way.

I think Ted Cruz using the language of the never Trump movement was going to go out and deliberately sabotage the convention. I mean, the most important part of the week is party unity, and he snubbed him. I mean, he completely snubbed them. This was an -- we always say these are scripted. That was an unscripted show last night.

To Trump's credit, if he saw the remarks and said let him speak anyway. Then, that went forward. But it just showed you the discord.

The only real party unity at this convention is when people have literally called for imprisoning Hillary Clinton. That's the most unity you got.

CUOMO: I guess you could spin it, Errol. David is right. But you could spin it that Cruz did Trump a favor, because that was the first time we have seen the floor united in mutual outrage that wasn't about Hillary Clinton. It was about Cruz. And people were booing and saying Trump's our guy, Trump's our guy, Trump's our guy.

In fact, we heard it more audibly last night in the reaction to Cruz than we've heard it before. So, net-net. Is it a positive?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it certainly establishes that the Republican Party is now the party of Trump, that not just this convention, but I think the party in general. I mean, he won fair and square. And some people wanted to contain people didn't know for him in the primary. You know, somehow trying to spin it as if this was a mandate to transform the entire party.

I think Trump really has not just bragging rights, but he has the party, as the representatives here, the elected representatives and delegates here at the convention, they want him. They want him, period. Full stop. Nothing else to it.

We said all along and I think we've all realize over the last year that there was a parallel primary going on. There was a primary for leadership of the conservative movement. Ted Cruz is clearly indicating that is the job he wants. That's the role he wants to claim and that's the basis on which he is going to deliver what is in effect, maybe he's right, the first speech of the 2020 campaign.

CAMEROTA: Yes. But, Maeve, the crowd practically had pitchforks. Is that the right way to launch the 2020 campaign, I mean, to alienate everybody in the room?

MAEVE RESTON, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I thought it was a really, really bold move that might end up working for Ted Cruz in the long run. I mean, it was strange talking to delegates at the rules committee and all these sort of meetings, there were a lot of people who supported Cruz who felt strongly he needed to stand by his principles and knock it out there and endorse Trump. And there are a lot of people around the country that feel that way.

So, he wasn't playing to the room. He knew what was going to happen. He kept going through the boos. I, in the end, think he will have a backlash for a while. But if this election goes in a bad direction for Donald Trump and he goes down in flames, Ted Cruz was going to be able to hold on to that.

GREGORY: I just think, one other point about it. This is risky. There's no question about it. The Trump supporters, if he were to win, or even if he loses, they're going to be around. They're going to be a potent political force.

But I've been talking to Republicans, elected Republicans who are here, who are walking around going, oh, my gosh. This is an ugly convention. I don't know what I'm going to do. I talked to one Midwestern Republican who said this is a moral moment of leadership.

And I think there are going to be conservatives who say, where were you when Donald Trump happened? Ted Cruz has his answer. Some of the others have their answer. We'll see how it plays out. It's ugly for now.

You are right. It is Donald Trump's party, but this was not what they wanted.

LOUIS: When you talk to a lot of these folks who are soldiers, though, they will take you back to George W. Bush, and they will say, look, we took grief for the Iraq war. We talk a lot of grief for a lot of the missteps of the Bush administration. It's part of the name, you know? It's part of having a big tent.

CUOMO: (INAUDIBLE) Donald Trump -- you know, that was a big part of insurgency. And to be fair to the analysis, Cruz is now back where he started in one way. He came into this highly unpopular, tea party guy, fringe element, heavy on obstructionism, short on progress, and that's where he is now.

GREGORY: But he is actually closer to Trump supporters than some of these other mainstream candidates. It's just Trump became a more potent vehicle and voice for a lot of these voters who felt so disaffected. But, you know, Cruz was certainly in the league. He just didn't win in the end for lots of voters.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, did you think Trump really knew what Newt Gingrich was going to say, not Newt Gingrich.

CUOMO: Cruz.

CAMEROTA: What Cruz said, or did Cruz so rogue?

RESTON: Well, first of all, do we know whether or not Trump read the speech two hours before?

CAMEROTA: That's what he tweeted, but we don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

RESTON: He has a lot going on. It was clear he was not going to get the endorsement. They had the meeting on Capitol Hill.

[05:10:02] They spoke on the Monday before the convention. Made it clear there wasn't going to be an endorsement there.

So, I think when you read the speech on the page, it just didn't come across the same way that it did when Cruz delivered it and the way that he delivered that line of, you know, vote your conscience, which is such a buzz word for all of the people who have been trying to kind of upstage Trump at this convention. It just -- you know, came across probably in a way that Donald Trump was not expecting. Even if he knew, it was going to be cold to him.

GREGORY: Did you notice when he also says, that we need leaders to cast aside anger for love. I mean, that was Ted Cruz speaking. Sounding a lot more like George W. Bush in 2000. Again, striking a note of the type of candidacy he hopes for in 20.

By the way, there are a lot of Republicans paving the way for 2020. Sheldon Adelson, who is referred to here, he is here meeting with people who want his money down the line.

RESTON: John Kasich.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: How about what happened at the Adelson suite, bumping cross out?

GREGORY: Yes.

CUOMO: I think that was as telling as anything in terms of where this leaves Cruz, because you don't go anywhere without the money, you can talk about populism.

RESTON: He is not all about the money.

GREGORY: But Cruz is playing a longer game and he was speaking to conservatives out there who loved what he did as well as meeting the enmity of the crowd.

CAMEROTA: How about Newt Gingrich having to clean up on aisle nine?

(CROSSTALK)

LOUIS: Professor Gingrich to the rescue, right? A guy who fancies himself as smarter than most of the rest of the candidates. It was a clever way to try to rescue it, but that, in fact, is the phase that if he just inserted it into his speech, Ted Cruz might have been able to thread the needle. Do all of the things we're talking about. You know, sort of put his flag in the ground for 2020, appeal to the placate the thousands of people led by the New York delegation, who were ready to really -- some of the things that were said, we can't talk about on the air.

A lot of folks were really, really angry.

CUOMO: That is a high bar we have for things in this campaign that we might have been able to repeat.

What did, Maeve, about the way Trump played it?

RESTON: I think that moment of him coming into the room to upstage Cruz at the end, with the thumb's up and wave, was just -- there just was so much in that moment between him and Cruz. Really it brought the room to its feet. The whips on the floor were working the boos, obviously, to whip up the even crowd more.

So, it was again Trump winning the moment after Cruz had really given it to him.

GREGORY: I disagree a little bit. You don't win the moment when this is a made-for-television event when you have to upstage the guy, the chief rival not endorsing you. This was such disunity in the party, and not what they planned for. Again, spontaneity in otherwise planned events.

CAMEROTA: Indeed. Panel, thank you. Stick around. We have much more to talk about.

CUOMO: Now, we are talking about Cruz, but we're not supposed to be. We're supposed to talk about vice presidential nominee Mike Pence. This was his big introduction on the national stage.

Donald Trump's running mate was clearly overshadowed by Cruz and contradicted by Trump himself. And that's an important story.

So, for that, let's go to CNN's Phil Mattingly live inside the convention hall. Tell us about it.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, this was supposed to be Mike Pence's big moment. It was also a big moment for the Trump campaign. Mike Pence supposed to work to bridge that gap with conservatives that was uncovered so blatantly last night, if you will.

Instead, it showed again that there is a rift between Donald Trump and his running mate, and that rift was driven by Donald Trump's own words.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump contradicting his running mate Mike Pence just hours before the biggest moment of his career.

(CROWD CHANTING)

MATTINGLY: Pence detailing his approach to foreign policy to enthusiastic audience, at the Republican National Convention.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We cannot have four more years of apologizing to our enemies and abandoning our friends. Donald Trump will rebuild our military and stand with our allies.

MATTINGLY: But that's not what Trump is saying in a new interview. "The New York Times" reporting that Trump is questioning whether he would automatically defend NATO members. When specifically ask about Russia's aggression towards the Baltic States, Trump says he would come to their aid if they, quote, "have fulfilled their obligations to us". This contradiction is the second major policy discrepancy on display this week between the Republican nominee and his newly minted running mate.

[05:15:00] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: That was a war that we shouldn't have entered because Iraq did not knock down -- excuse me.

INTERVIEWER: Your running mate voted for it.

TRUMP: I don't care.

MATTINGLY: Despite these differences, the Indiana governor and former congressman making the case for a Trump presidency last night.

PENCE: Donald Trump gets it. He is the genuine article. He is a doer in a game usually reserve for talkers.

MATTINGLY: Declaring that the GOP ticket is an agent of change.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton wants a better title, and I would do, if I was already America's secretary of the status quo.

MATTINGLY: A star turn for Midwestern Mike, a staunch social conservative, Tea Party supporter and devout evangelical who actually endorsed Ted Cruz before Indiana's primary. Pence catapulting on to the national stage last year after signing a religious freedom law, criticized for discriminating against gays and lesbians.

PENCE: This isn't about disputes between individuals. It's about government overreach. And I'm proud that Indiana stepped forward.

MATTINGLY: Donald Trump applauding Pence's speech on Twitter. The GOP ticket still getting to know each other. Trump awkwardly air kissing his running mate after his big speech. Their unity not quite the photo-op moment of past Republican tickets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: So, guys, still getting there on a few things. It is worth noting. The speech from Mike Pence was very well-received inside the arena. I've been talking to a couple of delegates who are here who were very happy, most notably because there are conservatives that are very weary of Donald Trump. Mike Pence is basically on the ticket to help fill the gap. The speech last night, a number of people say, including Trump adviser say did exactly that.

The problem, of course, is, it's overshadowed by a couple of other things -- Alisyn.

CUOMO: OK. Phil, thanks so much for all of that.

Well, Donald Trump sparks another firestorm. In a new interview, Trump laying out his foreign policy vision and it is in sharp contrast with his own party and his own V.P. So, we're going to take a closer look at the issue and the possible fallout, next on NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:21:10] CUOMO: So, Donald Trump making headlines before hitting the stage tonight. In an interview with "The New York Times", Trump said as president he would not necessarily rush to help NATO allies. The story posting minutes after his vice presidential nominee, Governor Mike Pence of Indiana, promised stronger relations with allies like the NATO members.

Let's bring back CNN national political reporter Maeve Reston, CNN political commentator and political anchor of Time Warner Cable News, Errol Louis, and CNN political analyst and host of "The David Gregory Show" podcast, David Gregory himself.

All right. So, we have an except here of "The New York Times." Just give you the relevant language, OK? Put it up on the screen.

Mr. Trump said if Russia attacked them, he would decide whether to come to their aid open only after reviewing whether those nations, quote, "have fulfilled their obligations to us," unquote. "He added, 'If they fulfill their obligations to us, the answer is yes'."

So, is that good enough? In context of this, what Mike Pence said himself. Let's play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: We cannot have four more years apologizing to our enemies and abandoning our friends. America needs to be strong for the world to be safe. And on the world stage, Donald Trump will lead from strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: David?

GREGORY: What's problematic about this is Donald Trump praised Vladimir Putin who is an autocrat, who is a dictator, who has invaded countries and who has acted like a czar with expanding and returning the Russian empire.

He has praised him as a strong man. When Brexit happened, that was a victory for Putin because it undermined Europe. The party platform here does not provide arms to Ukrainian rebels, another great thing for Vladimir Putin.

And now, what is he saying to Putin? The nominee is saying if he were to attack NATO, which is a huge red line in terms of concern about Europe, we'll see if we back them depending upon they have stepped up and shown their alliance. That's not how our alliance has worked. That's not how America's position of responsibility and influence has worked in Europe.

I think it's going to have a lot of Republicans very worried, including his running mate, based on what he just said.

CAMEROTA: Errol, this is vintage -- or Maeve, this is vintage Trump. Everything is a negotiation for him. And so, particularly a financial negotiation. I think he's referring, in terms of the conditions, they need to pave their way before we decide to help the allies.

LOUIS: That's right. He says that often throughout the campaign. They are treating us like babies and they are getting away with murder. They have to put their share. Now, this is going to cause him problems when he has to stand across the debate stage from the former secretary of state. When it has been pointed out and anybody above a certain age understands that, you know, NATO was sort of an existential pact with nations afraid of possible incursion by the Old Soviet Union.

I mean, the entire defense doctrine, the entire economies of so many nations were built around this notion that we could lose it all. And the stakes were so much higher than did Belgium pay their fair share of the mutual defense tax.

So, Donald Trump is out of step with where the mainstream of, you know, bipartisan administrations have stood for the last 70 years. If he wants to take that to the debate stage against Hillary Clinton, I think he is handing her good $ attack points.

[05:25:03] RESTON: And I think that that is why, obviously, we saw her campaign jump on this quickly.

This kind of rhetoric from Donald Trump just plays directly into the argument that she is making. She would be the steady, reliable hand here. That he doesn't have as much of a grasp of world affairs. I do think this kind of -- you know, she talked about him praising Putin in his statement. I think this kind of rhetoric is what makes the voters in the middle like a little bit jittery and nervous.

CUOMO: But there is one element we have to had to this. It seems Donald Trump is for getting that NATO is Europe, OK? I mean, 28- member states. It really encompasses everything there. So, yes, she could have high ground and say you just don't get it. You don't understand.

He will tell you what I do understand. You were there for the status quo that exists right now, people not paying their fair share.

What's going on in Ukraine? She wasn't secretary anymore. She set it up. What you did with the Russian reset. So, you are responsible for all the problems we have. That is powerful medicine.

So, that's going to balance it out when they are on the debate stage. GREGORY: But Vladimir Putin has been exploiting two administrations

now. It seems to be tight with President Bush and yet he still invaded two of the former Soviet republic and couldn't be stopped --

CUOMO: People have a short memo, David. They only know what he's doing right now.

GREGORY: Yes, fair enough. But the point is that some of the argument about the Obama administration is we have failed to show up for our allies in the Middle East here. If you're going to start abandoning allies in Europe. And, by the way, if Donald Trump doesn't want to commit U.S. forces anymore, and wants to be more inward- looking.

You know, NATO pledged if Russia were to invade a NATO country, NATO has to provide troops as they did in Afghanistan, we have to be able to rely on that as an American government.

CAMEROTA: Errol, is it a problem that he doesn't seem to be working in concert with his vice president?

LOUIS: Well, it's a problem for the vice president. It has been a problem for anybody who has had to support statements they don't see coming. Changes or variations on themes he never set down on paper and really fully developed. It is impossible to keep up with the guy.

So, you know, yes, it is a problem for Mike Pence. It makes the ticket that much weaker. It makes it that much harder to pull into some of the swing voters. And again, lots of people are tuning in to this for the first time. We have been talking about this for a year. But, you know, when 10 million people tune in each night of the convention, it will grow to an estimated 140 million people voting in November, they are getting their first look and it is a confused first look.

CUOMO: Panel, thank you very much. Great to see you.

So, what is it like growing up Trump? CNN's Gloria Borger goes one- on-one with Ivanka Trump with her big speech tonight. What kind of father was Donald Trump? Ivanka Trump in her own words, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)