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Ted Cruz Booed After Refusing to Endorse Trump; VP Nominee Overshadowed by Trump & Cruz. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 21, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to congratulate Donald Trump on winning the nomination.

[07:00:06] RAJU (voice-over): It was all downhill from there. Ted Cruz delivering a 25-minute speech that may follow him forever. Refusing to endorse Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention.

CRUZ: Stand and speak and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

RAJU: Cruz mentioning Trump's name just once during his primetime address, the crowd angrily interrupting the speech.

Then Trump suddenly appears in the stands, upstaging the GOP runner-up yet again. Trump later tweeting, "Wow, Ted Cruz got booed off the stage. Didn't honor the pledge. I saw his speech two hours early, but let him speak anyway. No big deal."

PAUL MANAFORT, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Donald Trump made the offer to him to speak without any conditions. He thought Senator Cruz might have been a little bit more politically smart.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), HEAD OF TRUMP TRANSITION TEAM: I think it was awful, and quite frankly, I think it was selfish. And he signed a pledge. And it's his job to keep his word.

RAJU: Cruz later not backing down.

CRUZ: I laid out a very simple standard. We need a president who will defend and be faithful to the Constitution. I hope very much that is who the next president will be.

RAJU: Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich trying to reframe Cruz's comments as party unity.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think you misunderstood one paragraph that Ted Cruz, who is a superb orator, said. Ted Cruz said, you can vote your conscience for anyone who will uphold the Constitution. In this election, there is only one candidate who will uphold the Constitution. The only possible candidate this fall is the Trump/Pence Republican ticket. RAJU: But angry delegates in the arena couldn't be subdued. Video

posted on Twitter shows security escorting Cruz's wife Heidi out of the arena while being heckled by Trump supporters.

But two of Trump's former rivals showing they can put the bitter campaign season behind them.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The time for fighting each other is over. It's time to come together.

WALKER: A vote for anyone other than Donald Trump in November is a vote for Hillary Clinton.

RAJU: Trump also getting more support from one of his kids.

ERIC TRUMP, SON OF ERIC TRUMP: It is such an honor to be here for a man I love so, so, so, so much.

RAJU: The Republican nominee listening in the audience as his son, Eric, praised him.

E. TRUMP: My father has revitalized rundown neighborhoods, shaped skylines across the country, and turned dreams into reality his entire career. It's what he does. It's who he is.

RAJU: And after days of denying Melania Trump's speech was plagiarized...

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: I can't move on, because you keep lying about it. Did a portion of the language of that speech come from Michelle Obama's speech, yes or no?

MANAFORT: As far as we're concerned, there are similar words that were used.

RAJU: On Wednesday, a Trump aide offered to resign over the firestorm, admitting that it was a mistake to lift passages of Melania's speech from Michelle Obama's 2008 address.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I thought it was terrific the way she came forward and just said, "Look, it was a mistake that I made," and she thought it was very unfair to Melania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU: Now, the backlash over Cruz's speech started immediately. Afterwards, Ted Cruz tried to meet with Sheldon Adelson, the billionaire Republican donor, and Adelson would not meet with him, actually rescinding an invitation to sit down with Ted Cruz.

Also, Republican supporters of Ted Cruz are saying maybe this could hurt him if he decides to run again for president in 2020 -- Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: What a wacky night. Ted Cruz invited to the convention, doesn't endorse, gets booed off the stage. Mike Pence, who was with Cruz, then takes to the stage to say why Trump is the right guy. That is the state of play.

Let's discuss where we go from here. Senior editor of "The Atlantic," Mr. David Frum; CNN political commentator and senior writer for "The Federalist," Mary Katharine Ham. We also have CNN political commentator and talk radio host for KABC, Mr. John Phillips.

The characterization is right. You know, John, that you know, we have this -- you know, Cruz comes out there, gets a big primetime chunk. Same kind of slot that Chris Christie got. No endorsement of Trump, says his name once. The impact?

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That's right. Well, look, I'm an Angels fan. I grew up in California. I learned very early on that life is much easier if you're not a sore loser.

What you saw last night was a sore loser. When this campaign started, he was the guy that was embracing Donald Trump. He thought Donald Trump would play it out. And he wanted Donald Trump supporters in the Cruz camp. Things didn't work out that way. And I think he just can't accept the fact that Donald Trump would beat him in the primary.

[07:05:08] CAMEROTA: So let's talk about the fallout for Ted Cruz, or maybe it elevates him. I mean, there's a possibility that he stood on his principles and people will remember that four years. "The Boston Herald" has a cover this morning that says "Boos Cruz." Clever. So what do you think for him?

MARY KATHARINE HAM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think there are certainly people who look at this and go, "Just jump on board, man," but I think you're seeing this incredible discomfort across a spectrum here with Paul Ryan sort of in the middle figuring out this awkward marriage with Trump. Pence jumping on board. And Cruz just saying, nope.

I believe all three of those men actually have conservative values. Trump, I don't think, does. So they're figuring out how to deal with this. I think Cruz may pay a price with some of the people in that room. Of course the Trump supporters.

But there are conservatives out there who go, like, "Yes, this man is not acceptable to us, and he doesn't believe the things we believe."

And he said to those people, "I'm willing to wait for it. Look at me later."

CUOMO: You think there's any case to be made, David, that Cruz did Trump a favor by uniting the convention in passion of, "Hey, this is wrong, what you're doing. That means Trump is our guy." It's the only time we've ever seen them do that at the convention.

DAVID FRUM, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC': No, he didn't unite the convention, and it would be a disgrace and a scandal if this convention were united.

The only way to unite it is unite to behind a man who just that same night repudiated NATO, defended Erdogan's counter-coup in Turkey, broke faith with the whole American security structure since the end of World War II. It scalds me. It burns me that the Democratic nominee was able truthfully to issue a statement immediately after tonight's -- yesterday's performance to say Hillary Clinton will protect our allies. How shameful for the party of Ronald Reagan and Dwight Eisenhower that that can so powerfully and accurately be hurled at us.

CAMEROTA: And of course, you're referring to "The New York Times" interview that Donald Trump sat down for yesterday. Once again, eclipsing some of his own convention. Because there were so many headlines out of this, David, as you say, because he said that "I don't know if we're going to be able to support the allies at NATO. It depends on if they sort of pay their dues. Depends on how they feel about us." And that...

FRUM: He's counterprogramming his own convention, and he's counterprogramming it with dirt.

CUOMO: This is a big selling point for him, which is America is involved in all these treaties and things that may not put it first. That was the theme last night, putting America first again. And doesn't that play into it? He didn't say, "I won't stick with NATO." It was, "It's got to work for us."

FRUM: He just created ambiguity. Just remind -- our viewers will remember that when Ike -- Dwight -- sorry, Dean Acheson, who was secretary of state in the 1950s, gave a speech, creating some ambiguity about whether the United States would defend Korea. And that triggered aggressive -- the aggressive Soviet Union, the aggressive North Koreans to think, "Maybe we can get away with this." It is an invitation to war, to open any uncertainty about the validity of America's treaties.

If the next president -- let's hope it's not Donald Trump -- but if any president ever has some questions about whether NATO has outlived its usefulness, you do that from -- first you renegotiate NATO. Then you express the doubt. I mean, I hope that would never happen. But to actually express the doubt first at a time when Russia is on the rampage, that is so dangerous.

And it is right for Ted Cruz -- he didn't know that at the time he spoke, but he knew enough else to say, you know, this man cannot be conscientiously supported.

HAM: He's not a man who has thought through the foreign policy issues and come to these conclusions, which I would have more respect for. That's not what's going on.

And Obama had a bit of this. He was like, "I'm just going to be the man I am. It's going to change the world." But that's not how it works, as we've seen over the past eight years.

And Donald Trump thinks that he looks strong in his suit and that that will change the world. And that -- people don't just listen to that. You actually have to have something to back it up, and you have to have thought through those issues. And it does not feel like he has. PHILLIPS: If Ted Cruz doesn't like Donald Trump and is not going to endorse him as the nominee of the Republican Party, then he should have done what John Kasich did, which is just skip the convention. You don't go to someone's party and do what he did last night.

HAM: He shouldn't have been invited.

FRUM: It's not Donald Trump's party. It's Ted Cruz's party just as much. He was the runner-up. He had a slot. And if Donald Trump can't earn his endorsement. And if Trump, by the way, doesn't have the elementary political sense and decency to ask for the endorsement, which he never did. You don't get for what you don't ask for. Ted -- every -- I predict ten years from now, every delegate in that hall will say that they were one of the people cheering Ted Cruz, and not one of them will admit to being one of the people who booed him. Because he is right. And those are the most nobly-earned boos at a convention since 1964, when Nelson Rockefeller denounced the John Birch Society and got booed for it.

CUOMO: So, using the John Birch Society as an analogy, do you agree with David that this is a, "Where were you" moment for Republicans?

HAM: To me that's what it feels like. And I think there's a generational gap of sorts, too, where many young conservatives, no matter what our policy differences have been in the past, say, "This is not working for me."

[07:10:07] There's a -- I think there's a management issue here. And this is part of Donald Trump's pitch: "I manage things great." Well, he invited this guy who wasn't going to endorse him, and he gave him a primetime slot.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that he knew -- do you think that Donald Trump knew that Ted Cruz was going to go off the reservation?

He tweeted that he did. He said, "I read the speech two hours earlier, not a big problem." But do you think he really knew that?

HAM: I think he's not engaged with this stuff. I think -- I think he's not thinking any of this through. And he's like, "Well, let's have a show, and Ted will be there."

FRUM: There's a huge difference between Donald Trump having the speech and Donald Trump reading the speech. Those are not the same thing.

CUOMO: You think that's the explanation for the Melania situation also, which is that this was about sloppiness and then when they got caught it was, "Let's do what we do best and just deny it"? A management issue?

PHILLIPS: With Melania, the speech writers for the campaign wrote it. She didn't like it. She conspired with another person to write it at the 11th hour.

CUOMO: Sure. PHILLIPS: And I think mistakes were made.

CUOMO: Right. And then -- but -- and that all happens all the time. The question is, now what do you do? Right? You know, you just did something; you plagiarized. How do you handle it? Is that a metaphor for what we're seeing with these other issues, about how he deals with things?

FRUM: Yes, the Paul Manafort interview with you was a disaster. They shouldn't have done that. They should have owned up to it. It would have been a one-day story. And then you pivot; you move on to the next day of the convention. They blew that one. It was a mistake.

And now Paul Manafort is saying, "Hey, that story with 'The New York Times,' that's inauthentic. 'The Times' got it wrong." One good reason not to lie on TV on Tuesday is because you might want to be believed on Thursday.

CAMEROTA: And also because there are transcripts. There's videotape and a transcript. So after you claim...

FRUM: That's never stopped them.

CAMEROTA: That's right. But there are transcripts that we will read later in the program that are verbatim what he said. There's evidence of what he originally said. They never sort of calculate that into their denial.

HAM: No and this is the pattern. And it's something that every Republican in that room and every Republican politician is calculating before they jump on board the Trump train. It's like, this guy is going to swerve off the tracks.

CUOMO: And that's another thing here. Ultimately, the GOP wants to win, right? The only thing that they have no doubt about is that they don't want Hillary Clinton to be president.

Do you believe that Donald Trump can come in tonight and do something with his speech that shows, one, he's growing; and two, he's your guy?

HAM: I don't think he will show he's growing, but I think that, nonetheless, a lot of Republicans will probably go, "Well, he's likely the best choice."

Many Republicans, though, will say, "I don't think we can trust him to make those good decisions that Pence is saying he will make." And there's good reason to wonder whether you can trust him, as we've seen throughout the week.

CAMEROTA: What do you expect, John, tonight?

PHILLIPS: Americans don't feel safe. They don't feel safe from terrorists. They don't feel safe from people killing police officers. They don't feel safe economically.

Donald Trump needs to go out there and make the case that he's the best person in position to keep this country safe. Americans don't feel safe, and ripping up the NATO treaty, the foundation of American national security since the end of World War II, is not making anybody safer. And the nominee of this party just did that. It's a scandal.

CAMEROTA: On that note...

CUOMO: Awed silence comes across the panel as David Frum drops the hammer.

CAMEROTA: And the Mike. Panel, thank you very much. Always great to get your insights and to have you here.

So it was a challenging night for Donald Trump's newly-minted running mate, Mike Pence. It was supposed to be his moment in the spotlight. But as you've heard, it was overshadowed by Ted Cruz.

Now Trump himself is contradicting his VP on foreign policy, as we've been talking about here.

CNN's Phil Mattingly is live in the convention hall with more on Trump's vision -- Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

It was supposed to be Mike Pence's moment, his night, his opportunity not only to introduce himself to the country but also offer a hand to conservatives that have been very wary of a Trump candidacy up to this point. Instead, he was overshadowed, and as you noted, Alisyn, it wasn't just by Ted Cruz; it was by his own running mate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Donald Trump undermining his running mate, Mike Pence, on the biggest night of his career. Pence detailing his approach to foreign policy to an enthusiastic audience at the Republican National Convention.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We cannot have four more years apologizing to our enemies and abandoning our friends. Donald Trump will rebuild our military and stand with our allies.

MATTINGLY: But that's not what Donald Trump is saying in a new interview. "The New York Times" reporting that Trump has questioned whether he would automatically defend NATO members.

When specifically asked about Russia's aggression towards the Baltic states, Trump says he would only come to their aid if they, quote, "have fulfilled their obligations to us."

This contradiction the second major policy discrepancy on display this week between the Republican nominee and his newly-minted running mate.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: That was a war that we shouldn't have been in because Iraq did not knock down -- excuse me...

LESLIE STAHL, "60 Minutes": Your running mate voted for it. TRUMP: Iraq did not knock down -- I don't care.

[07:15:05] MATTINGLY: Despite these differences, the Indiana governor and former congressman making the case for a Trump presidency last night.

PENCE: Donald Trump gets it. He's the genuine article. He's a doer in a game usually reserved for talkers.

MATTINGLY: Declaring that the GOP ticket is an agent of change.

PENCE: Hillary Clinton wants a better title, and I would, too, if I was already America's secretary of the status quo.

MATTINGLY: A star turn for Midwestern Mike, a staunch social conservative Tea Party supporter and devout evangelical who actually endorsed Ted Cruz before Indiana's primary.

Pence catapulting onto the national stage last year after signing a religious freedom law, criticized for discriminating against gays and lesbians.

PENCE: This isn't about disputes between individuals. It's about government overreach, and I'm proud that Indiana stepped forward.

MATTINGLY: Trump applauding Pence's speech on Twitter. The GOP ticket still getting to know each other. Trump awkwardly air kissing his running mate after his big speech. Their unity not quite the photo op moment of past Republican tickets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Guys, I can tell you, just in the couple hours that we've been on air, the backlash to that Donald Trump "New York Times" interview is only starting to grow.

One former Bush administration national security official just texted me one word, "Breathtaking." One of the Baltic states' presidents, the Estonian president, Toomas Ilves, tweeting out that they fulfilled their obligations to the collective defense treaty when the U.S. went into Afghanistan.

And now the NATO chief himself, in an interview with BuzzFeed, putting out a statement saying, quote, "Solidarity among allies is a key value for NATO. This is good for European security and good for U.S. security. We defend one another."

This is something, Chris, that isn't going away any time soon. And once again, it just underscores the point, we're now on the fourth day of the convention. This is the fourth day where we're not talking about whatever the message was the Trump campaign wanted to get across the night before.

CUOMO: Well, this is a tough spot. Not everything is about money. You've got these NATO heads coming out now to talk about the situation. Trump is going to have to deal with it. No question that this convention is what Donald Trump wanted. He's

now the nominee. But it's not how he wanted it. And it all comes down to tonight. Can he deliver? What will he say? How will he say it? We're going to have somebody with some insight next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:21:28] CRUZ: If you love our country and love your children as much as I know that you do, stand and speak and vote your conscience. Vote for candidates up and down the ticket who you trust to defend our freedom and to be faithful to the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. That was Ted Cruz stealing the spotlight last night at Donald Trump's convention. The Texas senator refusing to endorse the Republican nominee. Delegates then heckling and booing Cruz.

Let's discuss all of this and so much more with Congressman Chris Collins. He's the co-chair of the Trump campaign's House leadership committee. He was the first member of Congress to endorse Donald Trump.

Congressman, thanks so much for being here.

REP. CHRIS COLLINS (R), CO-CHAIR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN'S HOUSE LEADERSHIP COMMITTEE: Alisyn, it's great to be here with you.

CAMEROTA: Hope you helped yourself to some coffee and breakfast at the CNN grill.

COLLINS: I certainly did.

CAMEROTA: What did you think of what Ted Cruz did last night?

COLLINS: First of all, it made him a small person. And it's typical Ted Cruz; it's all about him. And I'd like to maybe remind Ted: America did vote their conscience. They didn't vote for him.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that Donald Trump knew that Ted Cruz was going to go rogue in that way?

COLLINS: No, I mean, this is -- this speaks to Donald Trump's character. He was very magnanimous. He reached out to the person who came in second in the primary and gave him an opportunity on the national stage to be a true Republican. And at least say the words, "We have to defeat Hillary Clinton. I am voting for Donald Trump."

All of the others who may have been a little bit slow to jump on the Trump train, but in the name of party unity and defeating Hillary, every single one of them have come out, maybe with the exception of Jeb Bush, and said, "We're going to vote for Donald Trump. Of course we are. And not Ted Cruz." CAMEROTA: But did Donald Trump know that Ted Cruz wasn't going to say

that he endorsed him?

COLLINS: No, no. Every other speaker, myself included, had to, you know, submit our -- our...

CAMEROTA: Speech.

COLLINS: ... speech, and somebody would come back. In my case, they changed two words. Said, could you flip these two words around?

But Ted Cruz wouldn't submit his. So no, they had no idea what was going to happen.

CAMEROTA: Is that right? Because...

COLLINS: That is just plain -- this is just plain rude, but it's Ted Cruz. He's all about himself. That's why he's got, quote, "no friends," in Washington, D.C., except a few Tea Party extremists.

He made himself a small man. He reduced his stature across the country. The Cruz delegates were booing him. The Cruz delegates were booing Ted Cruz last night.

CAMEROTA: Why is that? I mean, wouldn't they be happy that he was standing on his principles?

COLLINS: It's called party unity, defeat Hillary Clinton, and Ted Cruz put himself above that.

CAMEROTA: So you don't think that Ted Cruz submitted his speech two hours beforehand? That's what Donald Trump had tweeted out and said, "Yes, I got a copy of his speech. Not a big deal."

COLLINS: I think at some point he submitted it, and they had to put it in the teleprompter. So whether that was an hour before, whatever it was, it wasn't enough time to really...

CAMEROTA: Read it.

COLLINS: ... do anything about it.

CAMEROTA: And you don't think that Donald Trump...

COLLINS: Well, I don't know. Maybe -- it was in the teleprompter. So certainly, they got it ahead of time, but not much ahead of time. And they didn't approve it or not approve it. It was submitted.

CAMEROTA: OK. I want to ask you about interviews that Donald Trump gave to "The New York Times" in which he talked about his foreign policy. And he talked about how he might be reluctant to support some NATO allies if they didn't sort of carry their weight, you know, pay their fair share. And that has concerned some foreign policy analysts.

COLLINS: What do we have here? America first. Drowning in debt, $20 trillion in debt. And Donald Trump is right in saying we're going to have a conversation here.

Ultimately, the allies are going to get it. They need to contribute their fair share. We're drowning in debt. They've taken us for granted. Our allies have taken us for granted.

And so this is a fair conversation. And I think at the end of it, they're going to acknowledge they've been taking America for granted. Donald Trump says America first. Let's have this discussion.

CAMEROTA: Here's what Hillary Clinton's campaign put out as a result of that "New York Times" interview and Donald Trump's foreign policy vision. "Ronald Reagan would be ashamed. Harry Truman would be ashamed. Republicans, Democrats and independents who helped build NATO, the most successful military alliance in history, would all come to the same conclusion. Donald Trump is temperamentally unfit and fundamentally ill-prepared to be our commander in chief."

People say it's dangerous to suggest that you wouldn't be there for NATO allies.

COLLINS: America first. And let's remember, this is Secretary Clinton, along with the Obama administration, that have turned their back on Israel. They've turned their back on Great Britain. Obama went to Great Britain and told them how to vote on the remain versus Brexit. You know what they said to Barack Obama? That probably turned that vote into the Brexit vote that it did.

No, we didn't have $20 trillion in debt then. We weren't drowning in debt. We weren't in the financial condition, as people have said, the greatest threat to our national defense is our national debt. Those times are very different.

All Donald Trump is saying is, "I'm putting America first. I'm putting our children and grandchildren first, and saying we've got to deal with our national debt. We need to have a conversation that others are contributing their fair share for their national defense."

So at the end of the day, Alisyn, I believe certainly we're going to be standing with our allies, but we're going to put America first. And they're going to pay their fair share. There's nothing wrong with that.

CAMEROTA: What are we going to hear tonight from Donald Trump?

COLLINS: Well, it's going to be a very long speech.

CAMEROTA: How long?

COLLINS: I'm guessing as much as 45 minutes. But certainly, I'm not privy to that. But he has said it's going to be a long speech.

CAMEROTA: OK.

COLLINS: And I think he's going to take us "A" to "Z" through the campaign. He's going to take us a to z why we should defeat Hillary Clinton, and he is a true conservative. Mike Pence certainly is, his selection, plus his Supreme Court choices prove he is a true conservative.

I think we're going to hear a lot about our national debt, and how he's putting that in context of America first, as he then goes to other -- other discussions, including NATO.

So I think he's going to be reaching out from "A" to "Z" to the entire country. His kids have already reached out to all the moms across America to say -- not that they're saying, "Look at us," but all the moms and dads across America are just wowed by the four of his five. I wish they'd put Barron on. If they'd put Barron on...

CAMEROTA: Yes, where's Barron?

COLLINS: ... and he just said -- if he had just said, "Vote for my dad," that election would have been over.

CAMEROTA: Is that right? OK. And no smoke machine tonight?

COLLINS: Well, there was a smoke backdrop last time. But what a grand entrance. Coupled with yesterday, I know people were saying, "Here comes the 757. Now he's on the helicopter, the Trump helicopter." A grand entrance. And very presidential. And you know, that's a very good things visually.

So this has been a great convention. I think starting the family first. And family have been -- that's never happened before.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COLLINS: Every single night. And tonight Ivanka is coming on.

CAMEROTA: Yes. We'll be watching with great interest what Ivanka has to say.

COLLINS: I already know, she's going to blow everyone away.

CAMEROTA: yes, there you go. Congressman, thanks so much for being here.

COLLINS: Alisyn, very good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: All right. The speakers at the GOP convention have been pretty diverse last night. But on the floor, it's a very different picture among delegates. Is the GOP doing enough to be inclusive? We discuss that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)