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Trump: NATO Countries Were Not Paying Their Fair Share; Democratic National Convention Begins On Monday; North Miami Police Shoot Unarmed Man Lying On Ground. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 22, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Panel, thank you very much for being with us here on NEW DAY. Are Donald Trump and his running mate at odds on foreign policy? One of Trump's policy advisers says not exactly. He's going to join us to explain what that means.

[07:30:17] (COMMERCIAL BREAK0

[07:33:10]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Donald Trump attempting to clarify his vision for protecting allies after startling statements in a "New York Times" interview. Here is what Trump said in his speech last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Recently, I have said that NATO was obsolete because it did not properly cover terror. And also, that many of the member countries were not paying their fair share. Shortly thereafter, it was announced that NATO will be setting up a new program in order to combat terrorism. A true step in the right direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: So, is Trump in favor of NATO, not in favor of NATO, is it qualified? Does he agree with Mike Pence, who came out and said we have to be better to our allies? Let's discuss with someone who knows, Peter Navarro, a Trump policy adviser. He is an economist and business professor at the University of California, Irvine. Professor, good to have you with us.

PETER NAVARRO, TRUMP POLICY ADVISER, ECONOMIST, BUSINESS PROFESSOR, UC, IRVINE: So pleased to see you. So we have a wonderful breakdown of the whole session.

CUOMO: They're breaking it down. If you hear any noises don't be upset, it's just the construction sounds.

NAVARRO: It was a great night last night.

CUOMO: So, it was a big night for Donald Trump.

NAVARRO: It was. CUOMO: He wanted to clarify that because he did not like what came out of "The New York Times". At first, the campaign was saying it was inaccurate, then they just said well, it's just wrong and we want to clarify. Is --

NAVARRO: Let's clarify, let's do it.

CUOMO: So, let's do it.

NAVARRO: Yes, let's do it.

CUOMO: NATO -- what he said -- what he said was, just so we can set the premise of the suggestion and then you deal with it, please, which is it seemed like he was saying it's a pay for play. That unless you pay us what we think you should pay we will not stand up for you if Russia comes. Forget about Article 5. What do you say?

[07:35:00] NAVARRO: There's an essential truth that Donald Trump has stated and it's not just about NATO, it's about our Asian alliances. We've been living in a world since World War II were America has been paying a disproportionate share of the burden of the defense umbrella for the rest of the world. And we're now in a world which is increasingly more dangerous and America can no longer afford to do that.

And the problem with free riding in the alliances, whether it's in Europe or in Asia, is it weakens the alliance because we don't have enough funds to do what we need to do, but it also weakens the commitment of the allies to the alliance. So, NATO is -- I don't know -- broken would be too strong, but NATO needs to be strengthened and it needs to be strengthened from the inside by members pitching together, carrying their weight, and we've got the same problem in Asia.

So, he's hit an essential truth and, you know, look, it's the art of the deal here, right? What he puts on the table is hey, you're not paying enough and you're not taking care of terrorism. OK, then things get put in motion and things get done, as he said last night in his speech. Germany has come forward saying we're going to put our two percent in, and Germany's trying to signal to Italy and all the other free riders there --

CUOMO: Right.

NAVARRO: -- you need to do it, too.

CUOMO: But, Germany -- that's a discussion for a different day, but Germany's not your problem when it comes to NATO.

NAVARRO: Exactly, but they're trying to lead because Trump's leading. If Trump hadn't said anything Germany wouldn't have stepped up to that plate.

CUOMO: Well, this discussion has been going on for a long time.

NAVARRO: A long time, but Obama's been saying the same thing.

CUOMO: So, to be fair, I don't know. Donald Trump likes to suggest that NATO changed because they heard what he said, but that's politics. Here's my question.

NAVARRO: Causality to your correlation. You be -- you be the judge, all right?

CUOMO: That's just for the voters.

NAVARRO: It's for the voters.

CUOMO: So, there --

NAVARRO: No, what the voters saw last night, I think, was the deal being sealed last night. And I want to say one thing, is that --

CUOMO: But, I want -- I want to qualify that word --

NAVARRO: Yes, sure.

CUOMO: -- because it think it's an important part of your clarification. Should you deal with an existential situation in terms of if it's a business negotiation? Should your commitment to fight against Russia, for instance, be a qualified commitment? Does it smack of what happened back with Korea when a little bit of a suggestion -- well, maybe the U.S. is committed to NATO, maybe it isn't -- wound up giving confidence to an oppressor?

NAVARRO: I'm well aware of that statement. I'm well aware of that statement by the Secretary of State. I know what you're getting at, but what Donald Trump's going to be a bit louder, I might add, is Ronald Reagan. The whole notion of peace through strength, walk softly, carry a big stick.

That's what he's trying to do and he's trying to wake up America and he's trying to wake up to the world that the way we're moving is not working. NATO is having trouble because they're not committed to defending. They don't know what to do about terrorism. They don't know what to do about Russia. And part of it is all this free riding that's going on.

So I think what happened last night -- there was a couple of things that happened last night. I think Donald Trump reassured the American people about where he's going with his policies. It was a very policy-oriented speech.

But to me, the whole story of the convention was Ivanka and Don, Jr. and the rest of the kids getting out there and letting us know who the man was. The Tom Barrick speech was wonderful. And this is what I think we need. We need to know as much about who Donald Trump is, about what he stands for.

CUOMO: Isn't that why a discussion of what his predisposition is towards the allies matters? Mike Pence says our commitment to our allies is going to improve -- no qualification. That's why it was suggested as a contrast because there -- any way you want to explain it, it is a qualification coming out of Trump's mouth.

NAVARRO: And a contradiction, and I thought the press reported it. I'm not going to say no, that's a false narrative because Donald Trump is committed. He understands that the alliances have to be strong, not just military and strategically, but economically. And because -- the whole thing about the Donald Trump policy is it's intricately tied to the economy.

You can't have a strong military, you can't have strong alliances without a strong economy. So he can rebuild the economy, he can double our growth rate, generate tax revenues, then we can build the ships we need to defend ourselves in the Pacific. Then we can build the aircraft we need for NATO, but we're not doing that right now.

So we need to understand that America of today is very different from the 50's and the 60's, when we were in NATO and we could carry that ball for everybody else. We can't do that anymore, it won't work that way. And if we don't pitch in, it's not going to work. So strength through peace, economically and military, strong alliances, Europe, Asia, let's get it done.

CUOMO: But Reagan's obvious commitment to being there for the world is what gave him such a projection of strength. Professor Navarro --

NAVARRO: It's a pleasure to meet you.

CUOMO: Yes, thank you for coming on and making the case.

NAVARRO: Yes, yes, enjoy Philly and it should be fun. It would be hard to top Cleveland for the weather, at least.

[07:40:00] CUOMO: It was -- it was great.

NAVARRO: Great city here.

CUOMO: It was great and thank you for helping our show.

NAVARRO: All right, my pleasure.

CUOMO: See you again.

NAVARRO: Yes.

CUOMO: All right, so we're going to get more reaction to Trump's big speech coming up. One of the questions, is the message of a nation in crisis with problems only he can fix going to broaden his appeal? We break it down, next.

[07:40:25] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:43:50] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Donald Trump says the country is in crisis. His hour and 15 minute acceptance speech painted a dark vision for America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: Our convention occurs at a moment of crisis for our nation. The attacks on our police and the terrorism of our cities threaten our very way of life. Many have witnessed this violence personally. Some have even been its victims. I have a message for all of you. The crime and violence that, today, afflicts our nation will soon, and I mean very soon, come to an end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now to discuss is CNN political commentator, Carl Bernstein, the author of the definitive biography of Hillary Clinton, called --

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, AUTHOR, "A WOMAN IN CHARGE: THE LIFE OF HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON": "A Woman in Charge: The Life of Hillary Rodham Clinton".

CAMEROTA: OK, great. What were your impressions, Carl, last night, of Donald Trump's speech?

BERNSTEIN: I think both the speech and the convention were probably very effective for Donald Trump. It was a terrifying speech, a dark vision of America. And what we have seen in this convention in that speech is a mythical America that does not really exist --

[07:45:00] CAMEROTA: Meaning?

BERNSTEIN: -- and -- let me just say -- and a mythical Donald Trump who does not really exist -- the master builder. Very much at odds with the pictures we've seen of Trump as somebody who fleeces people in Trump University, et cetera. So, the Democrats and Hillary Clinton now have a terrible task at dismantling this mythology that this convention and speech have created, and she's a weak messenger.

CAMEROTA: But in terms of the vision, that you say, of America that doesn't exist it's not as bleak?

BERNSTEIN: Not as bleak, it's not existentially correct. It's not borne out by either facts -- we are not a nation in which thousands and thousands of citizens are murdering each other daily. We are not under siege from terrorists at home every other day on a scale, as implied in this speech. This was a speech intended to instill fear and terrify people and create a vision of America, such as Rudy Giuliani did in his speech, that simply is at odds with fact, and at the same time plays into the real fears.

One of the things Trump has done so effectively is to identify why and which institutions in this country are not working and that the elites, indeed, have not served the people of this country. It all fits together well as a package and Hillary Clinton is a really weakened messenger to deconstruct this mythology. So, she's got her hands full at this convention.

CUOMO: So you think -- I mean, I that what you're going to see in the electorate, writ large, is that they agree that the country has more negatives than positives going on right now. The question comes down, therefore, if that's the premise, to who is the better change agent? What do you think Donald Trump did for himself in making the case that he is better than she? BERNSTEIN: Well, I think this is the other amazing thing about this speech that is unprecedented. It was the speech of a maximum demagogic leader. I, I, I will do this, do this, do this. Go back to the Nixon speech. The Nixon speech in '68, at least, is about we, as a people, and some hope and some optimism.

CUOMO: Well, Trump started by saying we, as Americans.

BERNSTEIN: No, no. This whole speech was about I will do this. This was a speech that could have been delivered by Juan Peron. There has been no speech in American presidential candidacy history at a convention like this one, not even the Nixon speech. This was the speech of a maximum strongman leader totally unprecedented in our history in terms of a break with democratic traditions.

Where is the democratic way he is going to bring about these changes that he's talking about? I'm going to eliminate crime, I'm going to do this and that, but it is working. It has worked both in the primaries and now, I think, even that instant poll -- and I don't give polls, especially instant polls, all that much credibility -- but I think that we know which states are targeted. What part of the country is targeted?

Where the disaffected people in this country are and their disaffection is real and justified. And Trump has plugged into that and Hillary Clinton, because of the way she has been incased in this distrust picture of her as a liar, particularly Comey baking her as a --

CUOMO: Fair picture?

BERNSTEIN: She has lied on the server. Her behavior was reckless, indefensible. She's encased in that picture that Comey painted of her and she has to break out of it somehow. The Democrats have to break out and take on -- listen, look at who Donald Trump is in terms of his own business. The master builder that Ivanka was citing.

CAMEROTA: But he has built skyscrapers. Much of the New York skyline is, you know, festooned, with the Trump name.

BERNSTEIN: He's also -- he's also got 3,500 lawsuits that he's instituted. He's also known by those who deal with him as a sleazy business person. Look at Trump University, and that is going -- look at the stories that are done by "The Wall Street Journal", "The Washington Post", "The New York Times" about his business practices. His taxes -- he won't release his tax returns and, yet, Hillary Clinton is not credible on that issue unless she releases her speeches.

CAMEROTA: Yes. So very quickly, next week, what does Hillary Clinton do to break that mold that you're talking about?

BERNSTEIN: I don't know, except to say the Democratic Party has an alternative that we believe in a real existing America of hope, of our people doing things together in a democratic process, and that we will build together. We do need -- and he -- look, he's right about infrastructure.

It's very carefully constructed, this speech, and I think it was very effective -- the whole convention, in terms of giving America a look at a Donald Trump with this veneer that we've never seen before, and now the Democrats and Hillary Clinton have to strip the veneer. It's going to be a long, difficult process.

[07:50:00] CAMEROTA: Carl Bernstein, always great to have you on NEW DAY.

BERNSTEIN: Good to be here.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here. So, we are learning more about this police shooting of an unarmed black behavioral therapist. This happened in Miami. (Video playing) You can see here the video. That's his autistic patient sitting there next to him. This man survived but, of course, he wants answers as to why he was shot. His attorney joins us next.

[07:50:35] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:54:05] CAMEROTA: There are many unanswered questions this morning after police shot an unarmed behavioral therapist in North Miami as he tried to calm down an autistic patient who ran away from his group home.

(Video playing) Here's the video. You can see these tense moments, before the shooting, that were caught in tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KINSEY, SHOOTING VICTIM: All he has is a toy truck, a toy truck. I am a behavioral therapist at a group home. That's all he has.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That therapist, Charles Kinsey, did survive and the police union says the shooting was an accident, but Kinsey says their explanation does not add up. So let's bring in his attorney, Hilton Napoleon, who joins us, along with Kinsey's employer, Clinton Bower. Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us this morning. There are so many questions about what happened here.

Mr. Bower, let me start with you. You are Charles Kinsley's employer, so you know what the situation was surrounding that moment there that we see on the street. What led up to that?

[07:55:00] CLINTON BOWER, PRESIDENT & CEO MACTOWN, INC., CHARLES KINSEY'S EMPLOYER: Apparently, the autistic individual that we care for had eloped from the group home and he was trying -- Charles was trying to return him to the group home. My understanding is Charles was trying to get him out of the street because there was traffic on the road, on 14th Avenue. After that, you know, obviously none of us really know what happened. CAMEROTA: Mr. Napoleon, we see the video there. He's subdued. He's on the ground on his back in a prone position. His arms are up. How can police justify that the next thing they did was shoot him?

HILTON NAPOLEON, II, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, REPRESENTING CHARLES KINSEY: There is no justification and the reality of it is that the reason why we're here and the reason why people across the world are really upset about this is because, as Americans, we believe that if you do everything that the police tell you to do that you will walk away unharmed. And that was not the case here and that's why people are outraged.

And, you know, we really need to look at the way that policing in America is approached today because this should not happen in our country. That was a man who was at work, who was caring for another individual while he's laying on the ground. He's still concerned, if you listen to the video, about his client and he still ends up getting shot. So, I don't understand, just like the rest of America, how someone could possibly try to justify this. They would be much better off saying sorry to my client --

BOWER: Absolutely.

NAPOLEON: -- and trying to acknowledge the fact that something went terribly wrong. And there is no justification for this. I have law enforcement in my family and none of them have come to me and said any type of reason that they could give for this tragic incident.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Napoleon, do you -- do you know the account that your client, Charles Kinsey, has given? He says that he asked the police officer, after this, why did you shoot me? And the police officer said "I don't know". That was verbatim. What more can you tell us about that exchange?

NAPOLEON: Well, I can tell you a couple of things. Number one, excuse me, that's exactly what happened. But, number two, other officers who were on scene asked the shooting officer the exact same question and he gave the exact same answer, which was "I don't' know". So, these later attempts to try to put a story together in an attempt to justify it -- I mean, it's just not what the American people want to hear.

I understand advocate -- in being an advocate for your client, and that's what the PBA is. But, as an advocate, they would have been a lot better off just not saying anything instead of trying to justify what happened in this case.

CAMEROTA: You know, we saw this two weeks ago with that terribly tragic case of Philando Castile, who was also complying. He was driving, he was pulled over for a broken taillight. The police asked him for his license. He told them -- he volunteered that he had a legal gun on him and they shot him. So, in other words, we have seen this now twice -- comply, comply, comply. They're trying to comply and they're shot anyway.

Mr. Bower, can you tell us about your employee, Charles Kinsey? What's he like? What's his manner like?

BOWER: Well, Mr. Kinsey's a hero today. Mr. Kinsey saved the life of that disabled individual. And, as Mr. Napoleon said, the PBA is now trying to say they intended to shoot my client and they accidentally shot my employee. I mean, to me, that's just outrageous.

But, Charles is a highly-trained behavior professional that's worked for me for over a year. This individual that he was caring for is a person with some significant behavioral issues and Charles was specifically chosen to work with this individual as his one-on-one staff because he's that much of a skilled employee.

He's received extensive crisis intervention training. Unfortunately, our police department doesn't seem to receive that same training. But, Charles is a hero to us here at MACtown and to all the community here in Miami.

CAMEROTA: Clint Bower, Hilton Napoleon, thank you for being here. Obviously, there are many questions and we know that you will stay on it, as will we, to get answers. Thank you, gentlemen.

NAPOLEON: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We have much more coverage of the Republican Convention ahead, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANKA TRUMP, DONALD TRUMP'S DAUGHTER: As president, my father will fight for you all the way, every time.

D. TRUMP: The situation is worse than it has ever been before.

RNC DELEGATES (Chanting): USA, USA, USA.

D. TRUMP: Violence in our streets, chaos in our communities.