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Clinton To Deliver Acceptance Speech Tonight; Top Democrats Unleash Blistering Attacks On Trump; Trump Challenges Russia To Hack Hillary Clinton's Email; Trump Campaign Will Not Release His Taxes; Donald Trump's Ghostwriter Speaks Out. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 28, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:32:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton will close out the Democratic National Convention tonight, here in Philadelphia. The acceptance speech will be a big deal but it was last night where the case was really made. All the big dogs of the Democratic Party were out there. The president, the vice president, maybe the next vice president. It was a big deal.

So, let's discuss whether the case was made and how this election goes going forward with someone who knows this deal well, 1988 Democratic nominee, governor of Massachusetts, Michael Dukakis. Gov, it's great to have you with us here.

MICHAEL DUKAKIS (D), FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR: Good to be with you.

CUOMO: So, you brought out your best last night here for the party. You had the vice president and the president making the case. You had Tim Kaine, his first appearance.

DUKAKIS: Well, I thought he was terrific, you know. I've known Tim --

CUOMO: You thought he was because he's getting some heat?

DUKAKIS: I don't know what he's getting about. I mean, there was humor there, a little different style. I liked the Spanish, needless to say.

CUOMO: Si se puede.

DUKAKIS: Si se puede.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Did you like his impression of Donald Trump?

DUKAKIS: Yes. (Laughing).

CUOMO: You don't want to talk about Trump, I know that. I know you don't like all the attention.

DUKAKIS: Actually, I will say this to you. I mean, I think we've got to start talking about Trump because the guy's getting away with murder. I mean, he's a screwball, you know. Every day is another --

CAMEROTA: And you don't think -- you don't think the people have been talking about Donald Trump enough in this campaign?

DUKAKIS: No, no, and a point of fact -- I mean, take for example the income tax returns. Look, this guy has got to produce his income tax returns.

CUOMO: He says he's under audit and no lawyer would let you put out tax returns when you're under audit.

DUKAKIS: That's absolute foolishness. He's running for the presidency of the United States and all he has to do is release them, and I think it's pretty obvious that there's something in there he doesn't want released. But I think we've got to insist on this kind of stuff because no presidential candidate I'm aware of in the last, what, 30 years has not done so.

CUOMO: But do you -- do you win because what does that go to? That goes to integrity, that goes to trust.

DUKAKIS: Yes, I got it.

CUOMO: Do you win that battle with Hillary Clinton against Donald Trump with everything she has hanging over her head?

DUKAKIS: Well, you know, it's very interesting. I mean, I've known -- Kitty and I have known Bill and Hillary Clinton since we both started as young governors. We're very close. If you remember, he nominated me in a rather long speech. He went on Johnny Carson a few months before he ran for the presidency and Carson said to him why are you running? He said because I want to finish my speech for Dukakis. (Laughter)

[07:35:00] But both are terrific people. Hillary is -- she's warm, she's funny. One of the things that happens to you in these presidential campaigns is that a narrative begins. I mean, I was the bloodless technocrat. Look, I've got my strengths and weaknesses but Greeks are not bloodless technocrats. That's not where we're coming from.

But it's interesting -- but, you know, she's a very good person and one of the things that I think we've got to do is to help people understand that.

CAMEROTA: So how does she do that tonight? How does she break away from that stereotype, fitting or unfitting, of who people have sort of categorized her as? What does she need to do?

DUKAKIS: Well, I think she's got to be personal in many ways and I think she will be, even as her husband was in talking about how they got together, you know. I remember once, somebody in one of my gubernatorial campaigns said Dukakis, we've got to give people a sense of where you came from. They think you're this guy that dropped out of the sky someplace, you know? And he put me in front of the house in Lowell, Massachusetts where my

dad and his family came when they got off the boat from Greece, and I just talked about what it was like to be the kid of a Greek immigrant who went on to become a doctor, of all things, back in the early 1900's. This 15-year-old who came over from Western Turkey, a Greek island, became a doctor. It made a difference and I think -- I think that's part of what we've got to do here.

CUOMO: So she's got the problem of whatever -- dealing with the negative character aspects as people perceive them and that's very real. Then there's another challenge which you could argue is even harder. This is not your Democratic Party, with all due respect. The Democrats get very mad when I say this, but guys like you, my pop, this isn't your party. You guys fought for the middle-class all the time, that's what you did to your benefit and detriment, in elections.

That's not what this party has become. It's what it wants to be now because Trump is invigorating those people. How does she do that?

DUKAKIS: But that's a problem, Chris, that we've had for a long time. I mean, Ronald Reagan got 45 percent of the union vote, so this is not a new thing. I had a problem in one of my races that I lost, same thing. How do we do this? I think Bernie Sanders is absolutely correct. I'm a huge believer in precinct-based grassroots organizing.

Elizabeth Warren would never have been elected president -- the United States senator from Massachusetts without an extraordinary grassroots campaign. Twenty-five thousand people out knocking on doors and we've got to do that. I mean, this has got to be --

CUOMO: The party boxed Bernie out. You saw the WikiLeaks. I mean, you pick the insider. You pick the one who's friendly with the machine.

DUKAKIS: Look, I'm not going to apologize for that kind of thing. I mean, it's just -- it was inexcusable but I think he's been very good about this. And I think he's absolutely correct when he said yesterday this has got to be something that involves not only the presidency, but everything up and down the line, and I think we can do that.

I mean, we've got millions of folks out there. We need 200,000 precinct captains, that's what it takes. We've got 200,000 precincts in the country. Half a dozen block captains. They've got to be out there from now until the 8th of November knocking on doors, making the case to people on a person-to-person basis.

CAMEROTA: As a former presidential candidate, what's it been like for you to watch this one unfold?

DUKAKIS: Well, as I often say, I owe the country an apology, you know. If I'd beaten old man Bush you'd never heard of this kid and we wouldn't be in this mess, so I'm as much to blame as anybody. But it's great to be a part of it. I'm married to the best looking Medicare recipient in America who's about to be 80 and we're still going strong. I mean -- CUOMO: About to be 70 (sic) years old. That's very impressive. People will be very happy to hear that about Kitty.

DUKAKIS: And, you know, I'm teaching full-time. I love working with young people. I mean, there really is -- we're producing fabulous young people in this country and they want to do public service. It's really interesting. So it's a very full life and it's great to be here. I wish, maybe, I might have been here in another capacity, you know, but sometimes you lose.

CAMEROTA: Well, on that hopeful note, Michael Dukakis thanks so much --

DUKAKIS: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: -- for being here.

DUKAKIS: Great to see you.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you. We have a quick programming note for everyone. Tomorrow on NEW DAY, I will be speaking with the newly- minted Democratic vice presidential nominee, Sen. Tim Kaine, so stick around for that. Send me some questions if you have them to my Twitter account. Meanwhile --

CUOMO: So, this intrigue that's going on about what Donald Trump said to Russian hackers. His words are pretty clear. If you can -- if you hear us, Russia, try to get those deleted emails. Now he says he was being sarcastic. Should that be the end of it, next.

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[07:42:10]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I will tell you this. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. Let's see that happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump at the center of another firestorm for those comments that he had made yesterday, while this morning he has changed his tune.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: -- and when I'm being sarcastic with something --

BRIAN KILMEADE, HOST, "FOX & FRIENDS": Were you being sarcastic?

TRUMP: Of course, I'm being sarcastic, but you have 33,000 emails deleted, and the real problem is what was said on those emails from the Democratic National Committee. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, here to discuss this is our panel. CNN political commentator and vice chair of the New York State Democratic Party, Christine Quinn. And former lieutenant governor of South Carolina and Donald Trump Supporter, Andre Bauer. Thanks to both of you for being here.

Governor, he was just being sarcastic, no big deal. Why is everybody freaking out that he invited Russia to hack into Hillary Clinton's emails?

ANDRE BAUER, FORMER LT. GOVERNOR, SOUTH CAROLINA, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think what he did was brilliant. He hijacked the Democratic campaign for a full news cycle. Twenty-five percent of their entire convention has now reminded people about the emails and the --

CAMEROTA: So that's what he was doing?

BAUER: I don't --

CAMEROTA: He was trying to throw that out there to try to detract some energy from the DNC?

BAUER: Well, I hadn't talked to him so I don't know, but just looking at it from somebody that has gotten more engaged this last couple of weeks in politics, to me it was -- strategically it was very good to divert what you're talking about.

Remind everybody about the whole -- so many people have a distaste in their mouth about this whole email and the way it was handled, and I think it sends a bad message. And, again, it's taken the discussion away from fixing problems which is what, as Americans, we need to talk about, whether it's Republican or Democrat.

CUOMO: Well, it depends, you know. Now, there's a statement against your interest because as the GOP you should like this conversation. But a lot of people in your party and a lot of Independents do, Christine, want to harp on the email situation. They see it as a baseline trust issue and for all the talk that we had last night and the grand themes and ideas, nobody tried to explain away the email controversy. So do you think Trump gets away with this?

CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No.

CUOMO: -- and it goes from controversy to non-troversy because he's talking about something, the emails, that people care about more than him saying silly things about what the Russians should do?

QUINN: Well, first of all, they're two different things, right? So, one, of the question of Hillary's emails. We're going to set that aside for a second, and no one's going to try to explain that on the podium at a convention. That's just not going to happen.

CAMEROTA: And the DNC. QUINN: Right, and the DNC emails, that's one thing. The second thing, and if this is best Donald Trump has to pivot to a topic, I really think it underscores what a mess his campaign is because we're not talking, really, about Hillary's emails and we shouldn't be today in relation to this because yesterday he called on a foreign government --

[07:45:00] CUOMO: He says he was being sarcastic.

QUINN: But you know what, I don't think he was. But let's say he was, for the benefit of the doubt. Is that appropriate, if you want to be President of the United States, to think talking about hacking, as it relates to Russia -- not one of our allies, not one of our allies that --

CUOMO: He talks the way regular people do and they don't take it as seriously.

QUINN: I don't think regular -- well, two things. One, I don't think regular people suggest over dinner conversation that Russia should hack into institutions' emails. Two, what you and I might say over a drink, it's just chit-chat, right? He wants to be the President of the United States. Every word he says matters.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUINN: Nonetheless, every word he says in relevance to Russia and relevance to Putin, a terrible dictator whose leadership he has heralded. He is not running to be regular Joe.

CAMEROTA: No.

QUINN: He's running to be president and he doesn't appreciate the seriousness of that.

BAUER: But one would argue, from the other side, her foundation got $145 million from Russia. I mean, you can start connecting the dots and say wait a minute, Trump didn't get a buyoff from Russia and her foundation did, $145 million.

QUINN: So yesterday, in that bizarre press conference, my friend Jonathan Capehart said he felt like the onion was running the press conference. But, in that, he said he'd had no business dealings with Russia, none at all. And then in the same press conference says he ran the Miss Universe contest there for a number of years, so which is it? He had a business there or he didn't have a business there? We might know if we saw his taxes. But, again, he just kind of mixed it up.

CUOMO: You bothered by the taxes? That's been brought up a lot here. Tim Kaine took a lot of time last night to unpack why he sees the refusal to disclose taxes as a metaphor for Trump not being trustworthy.

BAUER: I think it's interesting that last week Hillary was talking about it from the podium 203 times. Three days into this, Donald Trump's been talking about it 332 times and we still have a day left. Sixty-three percent more already they're talking about Trump here than they were --

CUOMO: What about the taxes?

CAMEROTA: What about the taxes?

BAUER: It was a nice try. We've been up all night long.

CAMEROTA: The math confused us for a minute.

CUOMO: She's very smart and I only look as dumb as I come off.

BAUER: I don't think the American public is real concerned about Donald Trump. If he's not paying this taxes, they're concerned.

CAMEROTA: How do we know?

QUINN: We don't know.

BAUER: Well --

QUINN: We don't know. And you know what?

CUOMO: Andre, would you disclose your taxes if you were running for that office?

BAUER: Yes.

QUINN: And not disclosing them -- and I don't know that there's something bad in there.

BAUER: But I don't know the legal ramifications of --

CUOMO: They're zero.

BAUER: You know, I don't know --

CUOMO: Even if he's under audit, there are zero legal ramification to putting them out.

QUINN: You can --

CUOMO: He says your lawyers will tell you not to do it. He told me that in person. Maybe that would be legal advice because a lawyer is trying to protect you, but that's what they do.

BAUER: But, Chris, there's --

CUOMO: But there's no legal -- there's no legal fallout if he puts them out.

BAUER: Certainly. There's no upside. Remember Romney -- we went through this with Romney --

CAMEROTA: Transparency. BAUER: -- and Romney did give it out and then, immediately, he didn't give enough to charity. She didn't pay this --

CAMEROTA: Well, that's the point, that's the point.

BAUER: He just kept taking the hit.

CUOMO: Shady Hillary. You want to be transparent.

QUINN: The upside is one, transparency for Americans and every other candidate has done this. Why is he the exception? Why can he makes jokes about almost treasonous behavior and not provide his taxes? People have a right to know what's in there, which may be nothing, but the longer he doesn't disclose, the more we're finding problems that may or may not exist.

CAMEROTA: OK, Governor, Christine, thank you very much for the debate. Well, he helped Donald Trump write "The Art of the Deal". You've probably heard about this. This ghostwriter is now speaking out. Why does he say the idea of president Trump scares him so much? Tony Schwartz is going to join us live, next.

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[07:52:50]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Take it from the guy who co-wrote Donald Trump's autobiography. Here's what he said about Trump. "Lying is second nature to him." So do you believe him?

DNC DELEGATES: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Well, let's talk to him and you can find out why Tony Schwartz, the ghostwriter of Donald Trump's bestseller, "The Art of the Deal", is now saying negative things about Donald Trump. He made headlines last week when he broke his silence, revealing his blistering account of the billionaire he shadowed for 18 months. Schwartz says he helped create what he calls "the myth" of Trump. He now says he regrets it. Joins us now.

Why the regret? This man is known as a showman. He's had tremendous success. That book was just a part of it. Why such regret now, Mr. Schwartz?

TONY SCHWARTZ, CO-AUTHOR, "THE ART OF THE DEAL": Because he's running for President of the United States and you don't want someone with the attention span of 9-year-old with ADHD and a remarkable lack of knowledge about the key issues facing us, and an inability, in my mind, based on my experience, to reflect and to compose himself.

You saw it yesterday when he came out with the comments he did about Russia. He is not a person who thinks through what he says. He reacts impulsively. He was feeling small and diminished by the fact that so much attention was being focused on the Democrats and he just couldn't stand it. That's my experience. When the attention and the spotlight is not on Donald Trump, he will do anything to get it back.

CUOMO: Well, then how do you account for his success? People find him very compelling. Even the media is forced to admit that he has had an ability to see a feeling, a mood, a trend in this country, especially culturally, that resonated in a way that took out a field of the GOP's best, some 16 large.

[07:55:00] SCHWARTZ: Yes. Listen, I'm not a -- I'm not a pundit. I'm a person who watches a man and the way he behaves, and I'm looking at his character. And what I think Trump did -- that I observed him doing -- was he used his force of personality, his insistence that any given thing he says is true. His ability to repeat and repeat and repeat, to tap into people's sense of frustration.

They think he is going to be, those who currently support time, their savior. There is no one, no one, that Donald Trump cares about less than the people who are not making it in this world. Those people -- those people don't yet realize it -- he considers to be losers. And the minute -- because he has to be the winner and others have to be a loser. The minute that that gets clear -- the minute that he gets their votes is the last time he will pay attention to them.

CUOMO: So, what do you make of what we hear about character accounts that are contrary to that? What his kids say about him, what people who say he's reached out and been charitable to them say about him.

SCHWARTZ: Look, here's --

CUOMO: Is this a split personality that you think you detect?

SCHWARTZ: No, not at all. That is -- what do you expect his children to say? There's only one way to get Trump's attention and his -- and his interest and that is to revere him. That's the set-up that he created with his children and, of course, every child needs to have a father who loves them, so that's what he did. There is no second Donald Trump. The inner-Trump is the outer-Trump. He, himself, has said I'm the exact same person that I was when I was eight years old. I believe him. That's my experience of him.

CUOMO: Are you -- you know, what are we talking about here, though? We're not trying to elect him priest in chief, these are politicians. They do persuasion. They often don't follow through on promises. That's why there's so much negativity toward the political culture and, frankly, why Donald Trump is seen as a refreshing change by those who support him. What are they missing?

SCHWARTZ: Chris, you're setting up, as I've heard you in last ten minutes, a false equivalency. This is the problem I think in the media, is that they're treating Trump as if he's a legitimate candidate for President of the United States.

There is no way he is, no more than my 2-year-old grandson would be a legitimate candidate for president. And if the media treated my 2- year-old grandson as someone who could be president that would be scary.

But when they treat Trump, who has no attention span, who has only a profound self-interest, who has no experience, and only has his inflated confidence as a qualification, it's terrifying -- it's terrifying.

CUOMO: But, Mr. Schwartz, let's look at the two men on the screen right now. You got paid to advance, what you say, is a myth about him, lionizing him. I am blacklisted by Trump and the Trump campaign because of taking him to task and testing him over issues. He is the presumptive, now -- the real nominee of the GOP. He got more votes than anybody in GOP modern history. You can't just take it all away from him, especially when you tried to create it, right?

SCHWARTZ: Yes, well listen, I tried to write a book when I was 35 years old about a guy who was small real estate developer with an instinct for promotion. In a million years I never imagined he would be somebody who would run for president and, at that time, I don't think he did.

It's a mistake I made. I did something that I deeply hope that young people in my position would not do, which is I did it for the money. It was a mistake. I have regretted it for 30 years. In my journal, during the time I was writing the book, I wrote my regrets. I feel -- I feel that the fact that I did it is irrelevant to whether or not he is qualified to be president.

The reason I'm with you is to be able to warn the American people that this man is not the man -- those who are in support of him -- is not the man they think he is. He's their enemy because he is the one percent. He's the one millionth of one percent. He's the person who wants to get all of their money in order that they -- as a -- and as a consequence, leave them without the very power they're so angry they don't have.

CUOMO: I understand your motivation and that's why we brought you on the show because I appreciate your perspective. But what I'm trying to get out of you, though, if somebody's listening to you and they want to support Trump you need to convince them that he is different, in the ways that you're describing, than Hillary Clinton and that other politicians are?

Because these traits that you are ascribing to Trump often get put on politicians. So what do you think you know about him, especially from some long ago -- maybe he's changed, maybe he's different -- that people need to pay attention to now?

SCHWARTZ: He -- as I've said before and as Tim Kaine quoted me saying last night, he is an -- he is an unrepentant liar. He says things that aren't true. That's what I -- that's what I experienced him as. I invented the phrase, in order to help him kind of cover over the fact that he lied, "truthful hyperbole" -- "truthful hyperbole".

CUOMO: You created that? Oh, that was a good one.