Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Gold Star Families Demand Apology From Donald Trump; Family Of Fallen Soldier In Feud With Trump Speaks Out; Donald Trump Stumbles On Ukraine Comments; Trump: "This Is About Radical Islamic Terrorism". Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 01, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I've now engaged and have opened myself up so that people will respond to my story. Whether it's right or wrong, they chose publicly to go out and tell their story and it's a very sad story, but they are one of 7,000 families. Unfortunately, 7,000 Gold Star families who have --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So, let's hear -- let's hear from those families. This morning, those families --

LEWANDOWSKI: -- been affected by this bad decision to go into war with Iraq and Afghanistan.

CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And you know what we should say to them is thank you for your sacrifice --

HARLOW: Hold on one moment.

QUINN: Even if they've attacked you, you say thank you for your sacrifice.

HARLOW: This morning, those Gold Star families are demanding an apology from Donald Trump. They've put out a long statement, here's part of it. They said, "This goes beyond politics. It is about a sense of decency. That kind of decency you mock as 'political correctness'. We feel we must speak out and demand you apologize to the Kahns, to all Gold Star families, and to all Americans for your offensive and, frankly, anti-American comments."

LEWANDOWSKI: He has called Capt. Kahn a hero.

HARLOW: Corey, should he walk this back?

LEWANDOWSKI: He's called him a hero.

HARLOW: Should he apologize?

LEWANDOWSKI: Apologize for saying he's a hero, absolutely not.

HARLOW: Right --

LEWANDOWSKI: He has said --

HARLOW: He's said many other things, as well, including just now on Twitter.

LEWANDOWSKI: He has said -- you need to reiterate the fact that Donald Trump has said that Capt. Kahn is a hero, first and foremost. He has said that publicly.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What about Gold Star families?

HARLOW: Right, they're all asking for an apology.

BERMAN: Listen, listen, listen, Corey. Listen to me.

LEWANDOWSKI: All Gold Star families --

BERMAN: Let me -- let me ask a question, let me ask a question.

LEWANDOWSKI: -- and families who made the sacrifice.

BERMAN: George W. Bush, when he was president, faced a lot of criticism from Gold Star families. And always, whenever he would respond he would say I understand the pain they're going through. I am not going to talk about them personally. Let me talk about the policies, OK?

QUINN: That's appropriate.

BERMAN: What Donald Trump did was objectively different. While he said Capt. Kahn was a hero, what he did there was he questioned why this woman was being silent. He did not honor her loss in that initial statement with George Stephanopoulos -- it's not in the transcript there. What he said is I wonder why he's (sic) silent. That is a choice -- that is a choice that he made. He did treat this differently than other politicians have in the past.

LEWANDOWSKI: But remember how this began. Mr. Kahn got up and said Donald Trump is a bad person who's never read the Constitution, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. That's how this began. Donald Trump's response was your son is a hero but you shouldn't have attacked me, and that's a fair point to make.

BERMAN: And then he said what about the wife?

LEWANDOWSKI: That's a fair point to make.

BERMAN: And then he said what about the wife, Corey.

LEWANDOWSKI: And the Kahn's have said I don't --

BERMAN: And then he said what about the wife? Answer me -- what did he say about the wife? What did he say about the wife?

LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what the Kahns have said. The Kahns have said we don't want to be on T.V. anymore. They were on CBS yesterday, they were on CNN today, they were on ABC yesterday. Look, they can be on T.V. all they want to be but when they have a response now that they don't appreciate, their answer is we want to be -- we don't want to be on T.V. anymore, we want to have this go away. QUINN: That's --

LEWANDOWSKI: They engaged in this discussion to begin with.

QUINN: But they said --

LEWANDOWSKI: Their son is a hero and every person --

QUINN: But, Poppy --

LEWANDOWSKI: -- who's ever died fighting for our country and their families are heroes. The difference is we've got 7,000 soldiers who died, $6 trillion wasted in wars overseas, that if Donald Trump was the president we would never have had and Capt. Kahn would be alive today.

HARLOW: But, Corey, Mike Pence, his running mate, came out with a statement to that effect that talks about policy, last night. Why wasn't that Donald Trump's response right away -- his policy? The policies I'm proposing will save more of these soldiers' lives.

LEWANDOWSKI: The Kahn family did not attack Gov. Pence, they attacked Donald Trump directly. Mr. Kahn --

HARLOW: They're running mates.

LEWANDOWSKI: It doesn't matter. If I attack you or I attack Mr. Berman, they're two very separate things. When the Kahn family came out and said Donald Trump has never read the Constitution --

BERMAN: He did not say that. He said he questions Mr. Trump and he said have you ever read the Constitution?

LEWANDOWSKI: And I'll give you my copy. Look, he --

BERMAN: By the way -- by the way, this is something Donald Trump would say. He said he's, you know --

QUINN: Can I say something, please? Can I say something, please?

LEWANDOWSKI: He raised the issue by attacking the record.

HARLOW: Let -- go, Christine.

QUINN: First of all, this isn't about just the Kahn family. Mr. Kahn spoke and then Donald Trump attacked Mrs. Kahn, and whether she has the ability to speak, with a gross insensitivity. An inability to see the clear grief and anguish on that woman's face. I understand in politics, I've been a candidate of campaigns. When you get hit, you hit back.

But sometimes things are greater than a political campaign. And this family's loss, this family's feeling that their religion had been attacked, that they had to be up there. You know what the appropriate response is, attack or not, we're sorry for your loss and we thank you for raising such a wonderful child who would give his life to protect his men and women.

That's the only answer here because some things are actually greater than politics, and some things require people to just take it and move on because the other person's pain is more profound than theirs.

HARLOW: Corey, is this -- to Christine's point, is this a bridge too far? It is one thing to come out the way he did against John McCain and question his war hero status, and he hasn't apologized. John McCain is a politician and a war hero for this country. It's another thing when you're dealing with a Gold Star family, a family that is not a political family. Yes, they spoke on stage at the DNC, but a family who lost their son 12 years ago and their heart breaks every day, still.

LEWANDOWSKI: The become --

HARLOW: Is it a bridge too far?

LEWANDOWSKI: You become a political family when you stand in front of 20 million people --

HARLOW: Does that take away their --

LEWANDOWSKI: at a Democratic -- no, it doesn't take away their loss.

HARLOW: Does it take away their loss?

[07:35:00] LEWANDOWSKI: Of course, it doesn't take away their loss, but it also doesn't allow you the shield of saying I don't want to be in the national spotlight anymore. When you decide to step forward in front of 20 million people at a Democratic National Convention to tell the story of your family and personally attack, or at least allude to attack, the Republican GOP candidate for president, you no longer have the shield of saying I don't want to be in the spotlight and my family anymore.

HARLOW: What does it get Donald Trump? What does this get Donald Trump, this fight?

LEWANDOWSKI: Oh, he didn't start the fight.

HARLOW: But's he's engaged --

LEWANDOWSKI: This is -- but this is --

HARLOW: He's still engaging as of this morning.

LEWANDOWSKI: This is the typical media. When Donald Trump responds to somebody they say he's attacking. He's not, he's counterpunching --

BERMAN: You know, what's interesting here, though --

LEWANDOWSKI: -- and the difference is he did not start it.

BERMAN: -- is that, again, presidents often face criticism from parents and family members of those who serve. So Donald Trump wants to be commander in chief, Corey. What message does this send to the people in the military right now -- the families of those serving -- about how Donald Trump, as president, would react to their grief?

LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what it says.

QUINN: And they rarely attack the families. The presidents of both --

LEWANDOWSKI: Here's what it says.

QUINN: -- parties rarely ever, maybe never, attack the families because being a leader, being a commander in chief sometimes mean -- often means -- rising above.

LEWANDOWSKI: You know what it says?

QUINN: This whole thing makes me, I have to say, soul sick about the state of this country at this moment, that anyone would attack those families. It just makes me sick.

LEWANDOWSKI: You know what it says? If Donald Trump was the president, Capt. Kahn would be alive today because he never would have engaged in a war that didn't directly benefit this country. And he's been very clear --

BERMAN: He's been very clear that he supported that war in an interview with Howard Stern.

LEWANDOWSKI: He's been very clear about the fact that he said I don't support the war and I don't support Afghanistan.

BERMAN: Did he tell Howard Stern he supported the war?

LEWANDOWSKI: But -- well, he said, yes, maybe -- after -- but he was also very clear --

HARLOW: No, he said I would have done that.

LEWANDOWSKI: He's been on the record multiple, multiple, multiple times saying he was against the war, unlike Hillary Clinton who voted for the war, OK? The bottom line is this. If Donald Trump would have been the president these troops would have never gone because there was no vested interest for the United States to be there. Capt. Kahn would be alive today, as would 7,000 other U.S. soldiers, and we would have saved $6 trillion.

BERMAN: All right, guys, you know what? We've got -- unfortunately --

HARLOW: We'll leave it there.

BERMAN: -- we've got to take a break. Christine Quinn, Corey Lewandowski, appreciate you being with us today.

HARLOW: Thank you. BERMAN: Next, we're going to speak to a general about this discussion and also the new statements that Donald Trump is making about Vladimir Putin and Russia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHIZR KAHN, FATHER OF FALLEN MUSLIM-AMERICAN SOLDIER: This is a proof of his ignorance and arrogance. And I again and again ask his advisers to get him in a room, close the door, and set him right if he needs -- if he wants to be the candidate of this wonderful Republican Party.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right, you just heard the emotional interview here on NEW DAY from the family members of a fallen Muslim soldier. They are calling for lawmakers to support Donald Trump, fellow Republicans, to call him out after he's criticized their family.

Joining me now to discuss, CNN military analyst, former Army commander, Gen. Mark Hertling. And CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jeffrey Lord. Thank you both for being here.

General Hertling, you were listening. Both of you were listening to that entire interview that John did with the parents and then the exchange following it with our political commentators. General Hertling, your thoughts? Your reaction to what you heard from this family.

MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes, well Poppy, CNN asks me often to comment on military activities and terrorist actions and the kinds of things that are going on in the battlefield. They often don't ask me to comment on the leadership aspects of our commanders in the field. And if Mr. Trump is asking to be commander in chief he needs to be evaluated on those measures, too.

There is, obviously, a character and a humility and empathy and an integrity issue surrounding this particular situation. And having dealt with hundreds, literally hundreds of Gold Star families, Gold Star mothers in particular, and understanding their pain, I will tell you that this has been devastating to the Kahn family, to be sure. But I think it's affected many, many other Gold Star families who have seen a lack of understanding by a potential commander in chief.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord is a Trump supporter. To what Gen. Hertling just said, and we just read the letter from the Gold Star families demanding an apology from Donald Trump, your response?

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, this is politics. I mean, I hate to say this and let me make very clear, Capt. Kahn obviously, obviously was an American hero. But to perfectly candid, anytime anybody -- anybody, the Kahns or anyone else -- stands in front of a Democratic or Republican National Convention and delivers a political attack against the candidate they are opening themselves up to disagreements and that's what happened. It's nothing more than that.

HARLOW: The question -- the question, Jeffrey -- well, it is more than that because this is --

LORD: No, Poppy, I'm afraid not.

HARLOW: -- a fallen American soldier --

HERTLING: It is definitely more than that, Jeffrey.

HARLOW: -- and it more than that in terms of how --

HERTLING: It's more than politics, it is leadership.

HARLOW: -- it has affected these other families.

LORD: Leadership -- leadership, General --

HARLOW: Over 470,000 Gold Star families in this country right now --

LORD: Who don't --

HARLOW: -- and I don't know their loss. Many of us don't know their loss so it's more than politics, isn't it, Jeffrey Lord?

LORD: No, Poppy. Poppy, when anybody -- anybody -- Gold Star or not, gets up and attacks a presidential candidate at a national convention that is politics. Mr. Kahn, and I listened to him this morning, is giving Donald Trump political lectures. I have my copy of the Constitution, too. He is well within his rights to do so. Donald Trump is well within his rights to respond.

You don't get to do this and then say oh no, you can't attack me, I'm off limits. I'm sorry, you're very presence there signifies otherwise. You are in a leadership position when you are making an attack on a presidential candidate at a national convention.

HARLOW: At what point, Jeffrey --

LORD: That's just a fact.

HARLOW: At what point, Jeffrey Lord, is it a bridge too far? The feud is continuing on Twitter this morning. We just had a tweet from Donald Trump saying, again, he's being viciously attacked.

LORD: The best way to do this is to just stop doing it.

HARLOW: What does it get him?

LORD: Why him? Why is Mr. Kahn on CNN, why is he on CBS, why is he on ABC? I mean, he is the one who is continuing this. Stop, stop.

HARLOW: General Hertling? LORD: If he doesn't want to be in the spotlight, stop.

HERTLING: Well, I think what you're seeing is Mr. Trump is continuing it, too, with continuing to text. And I agree with Jeffrey that certainly Mr. Kahn entered the political arena. But when you're talking about a potential commander in chief they have to show some leadership traits and not react as Mr. Trump has reacted on multiple occasions to these kind of things.

And truthfully, from what I can see, there is -- again, I go back to the word trust, Poppy. There is a generation of trust between a leader and the led, and that's a critical aspect of any candidate -- any -- someone running for office. They have to generate that trust. And what we're seeing is a continued drumbeat against that generation of trust with the American people and with those that support the military.

There is a continual emphasis on insulting people, draining (ph) people, having everyone from Mr. Kahn to Sen. McCain to me, personally, to others who have said here's what the military can do, here's what they should do, and here's the kind of trust that we impart in our political leaders that you have to establish that civil military relationship. That, obviously, is not in place right now and Mr. Trump doesn't understand it.

HARLOW: All right, I want to -- I want to move forward with something very, very important developing over the weekend and this interview that Donald Trump gave to George Stephanopoulos on ABC. And they spoke about a lot of issues, including Russia and Ukraine. Let's play a segment of that interview when he is asked about Russia's role in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's not going into Ukraine, OK, just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right? You can mark it down, you can put it down, you can take it any way you want.

GEORGE STEPHANOPLOUS, ABC HOST, "THIS WEEK": Well, he's already there, isn't he?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And, Gen. Hertling, to you. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of the geopolitical situation --

HERTLING: Yes, that --

HARLOW: -- basically not acknowledging the annexation of Crimea. Does that concern you?

HERTLING: Well, beyond that, Poppy, I'd also say it is certainly a misunderstanding and it gets back to that leadership element of intellect. He not only doesn't understand the fact that Russia has already annexed Crimea, but that he has many thousands of troops in the Donbass region of Eastern Ukraine.

And, in fact, the Minsk accord is still continuing to be fraught with failure and up to this point there have been over 10,000 lives lost in the Eastern Ukraine between the Russian little green men and the Ukrainian forces. And, in fact, U.S. military forces are in Western Ukraine helping the Ukrainian military defend themselves and defend the sovereignty of that state. So, yes, it's definitely a misunderstanding of what's going on inUkraine.

HARLOW: So, Jeffrey Lord, your reaction as well when you look at the bigger context of this and that is that at the RNC the Republican Party platform for the United States towards Ukraine changed significantly.

And it has been widely reported, including by Josh Rogin in "The Washington Post" that the Trump campaign is the one that pushed that changed -- the change that took away the United States pushing for arming of Ukrainians against Russia. So it looks like a more pro- Russian stance now, that's the bigger context of this.

LORD: Well, the bigger context, Poppy, is why did this happen in the first place? I mean, this is the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton had been running American foreign policy. How did we get to that stage? I mean, that's the thing that seems to get lost here. These things are not happening in a vacuum. American foreign policy has been set by President Obama for eight years and by Hillary Clinton for four, and this was the result.

Let's recall the Russian reset button. I mean, she's presided over one disaster after another and now we're supposed to think that she's competent to be President of the United States.

HARLOW: But Jeffrey Lord, did it concern to -- did it concern you to hear what Trump said to George Stephanopoulos, saying he's not there?

LORD: No, no, no, what concerns me is Benghazi and leaving State Department employees behind to die. That concerns me.

HARLOW: Jeffrey Lord, Gen. Hertling, thank you both. We appreciate it. Ahead, the parents of the fallen U.S. Army captain, Humayun Kahn, saying their peace live right here on NEW DAY. The question is will it lead to an apology from Donald Trump? We will speak with Connecticut's first Muslim mayor whonow focuses on fighting Islamophobia, straight ahead.

[07:51:40]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GHAZALA KAHN, MOTHER OF FALLEN MUSLIM-AMERICAN SOLDIER: I can say that my religion or my family or my culture never stopped me saying whatever I want to say. And my husband is very supportive of me in these things that I have all the rights as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter. I have done very well saying my mind out but that time was different.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The parents of fallen U.S. Army Capt. Humayun Kahn speaking to NEW DAY just moments ago. Here now to discuss that interview, and really the national debate taking place right now, Saud Anwar. He was the first Muslim mayor in Connecticut when he was elected in 2013. He's now a councilman in South Windsor and co-chair of the American Muslim Peace Initiative.

Councilman, thank you very much for being with us. I want to address one of the criticisms we've heard from Donald Trump on this, right away, if we can. He essentially says that the Kahns, by speaking at the Democratic Convention, became a part of the political process. As part of the political process, it is now within bounds for Donald Trump to talk about them the way he is. Your thoughts?

SAUD ANWAR (D), COUNCILMAN, SOUTH WINDSOR, CT: Thank you for having me. Actually, as a father of two sons, I want to just share that I cannot even imagine what the Kahn family has gone through and all the thousands of families that have suffered with the loss of their child. So, our heart is with everyone who has been impacted.

Now, again, the reason they spoke at the Democratic National Convention is because Trump has been attacking the American-Muslim community from day one. And his trying to put a negative stereotype attacking this community, it is important for the community to stand up and share with the world that look, we are as patriotic as anyone else is. And I think that's what the purpose of the Kahn family was to actually stand up in defense of the American values and in defense of the American Constitution.

BERMAN: He says -- Donald Trump says this story is not about Mr. Kahn. This is in a tweet he put out during our interview, in fact. "This story is not about Mr. Kahn who is all over the place doing interviews, but rather RADICAL ISLAMIC TERRORISM and the U.S. Get smart!" he says. So, Donald Trump says the issue is terrorism.

ANWAR: So, here's the challenge. Again, the problem is Donald Trump doesn't get it. As soon as he does not understand something or he actually does not like something, he becomes accusatory, he becomes defensive. And I think that shows his temperament that he actually lacks the ingredients to lead the country, and as a president you have to be the commander in chief. And a commander in chief should not have a temperament like this.

Keep in mind, what he's doing is he's actually alienating on all minority communities in America. Now, think about this. About 30 percent of our military is minority and if you look at the Hispanics in the military they're about 40 percent. If you look at the women it comes down to about more than 45-46 percent of our military is of minority groups.

And if the commander in chief or potential future commander in chief is alienating all of them, I think he's not a good candidate to be the commander in chief of our country and I think that's the part -- now, he actually tries to use the faith of the evil individuals who have been trying to use the faith of Islam to attack us and attack the world in so many ways to try and justify to marginalize it to our community. I think there are serious issues with his understanding and his capacity to lead at this time.

[07:55:00] BERMAN: It's interesting, this has started a discussion over the last four days. You know, we saw the Kahns this morning talking about their faith, also talking about their loss. Over the last four days I've heard more back and forth over this issue than I've heard ever.

ANWAR: I agree with you because, frankly, this is actually the things that we need to identify because we have, as Americans, very important decisions to make in the next few months. And it's important that we actually make the right choice at this point because we cannot have an individual who is so full of hatred, who has lack of decision-making, and actually is not the right capacity to make decisions.

BERMAN: He says -- he says, by the way, he would not say he's not full of hatred. He says, again, this is an issue of standing up to what he calls radical Islamic terrorism.

ANWAR: Right, but -- so standing up to radical Islamic terrorism is different from attacking all Muslims. I mean, how does he make that judgment? Does this mean that if there's a terror -- aChristian faith individual or a Jewish faith individual anywhere in the world who does something wrong that we're going to attack the entire faith community? That is the leap that he actually makes, which is actually contrary to all reality and all data.

BERMAN: Saud Anwar, councilman, thank you very much for being with us. Appreciate it.

ANWAR: Thank you for having me, John.

BERMAN: All right, quite a morning on NEW DAY. This debate playing out right here on our air -- Donald Trump, the parents of an American soldier killed 12 years ago. This escalating feud continues after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

K. KAHN: You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

TRUMP: I've made a lot of sacrifices. I work very, very hard.

K. KAHN: Enough is enough.

TRUMP: Look at his wife. Maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say.

G. KAHN: My religion or my family never stopped me saying whatever I want to say.

K. KAHN: That is, again, his ignorance of the First Amendment. I have exactly same rights as he does. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Trump poses a serious threat to our democracy.

K. KAHN: We are as concerned as Donald Trump is about the safety of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone, welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, August 1st, 8:00 here in the East.

Up first, the Muslim-American parents of a fallen U.S. soldier speaking out right here on NEW DAY about their very public battle with Donald Trump. The feud could become a major turning point in the race for the White House.

BERMAN: A show of solidarity. Eleven other Gold Star families are now questioning Donald Trump, calling his comments anti-American. Even high-ranking members of the Republican Party now denouncing Trump. Will he apologize?