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Trump Says He Was Being Sarcastic About ISIS Founder Comment; Giuliani: Media Is Rigged Against Trump; Team USA Swim Team Dominates Rio Olympics. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired August 12, 2016 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:33:10] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right, so Donald Trump tweeted this morning watching NEW DAY. Said I'm being sarcastic about the founder thing. Don't you get it? The problem is, for the last couple of days he's been insisting he was not being sarcastic when he says President Obama and then-Secretary Hillary Clinton founded ISIS. What does that mean about whether or not we can take Trump at his word? That's a big question when it comes to being president.
Let's discuss with our panel. CNN political commentators Hilary Rosen and Margaret Hoover, and former New York lieutenant governor Betsy McCaughey. It's great to have you with us, Betsy.
BETSY MCCAUGHEY, PH.D (R), FORMER LT. GOV. NEW YORK, MEMBER, TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISORY TEAM: Thank you.
CUOMO: Hilary, always good to have you, also. It's a fix-it proposition --
MCCAUGHEY: Hey, Hilary.
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi.
CUOMO: You're an adviser to Donald Trump. I'm sure it's not a decision you made lightly. Why do you believe he should be believed?
MCCAUGHEY: Well, I'm very much behind Donald Trump because he has the best economic plan to restore growth in this country, and that's been my focus. On ISIS, I think there's too much parsing going on.
I'll give you an example. Yesterday, Mrs. Clinton gave a major economic speech in Michigan and she said we need more building going on, we need to be builders. She's absolutely right and there is a builder in the race, but it isn't Mrs. Clinton. She's the blabberer. She's the one who gives speeches for a living. The real builder in the race is Donald Trump and he knows how to create jobs.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Can he be trusted?
MCCAUGHEY: I can't believe that you're asking that about Donald Trump instead of Hillary Clinton, who's been under FBI investigation.
KEILAR: You know, I think a lot of people would agree with you on that question but it's a valid one.
MCCAUGHEY: Right.
KEILAR: She has major trust issues --
MCCAUGHEY: Major.
KEILAR: -- and I don't know of any other candidate who would have given her a run for her money on that --
CUOMO: Except for Trump.
KEILAR: -- compared to Donald Trump.
MCCAUGHEY: Well, but his isn't about his conduct. You're simply parsing his words and what I'm suggesting is Donald Trump saying Obama and Hillary created ISIS obviously was some sort of shorthand for a very complex history of the problems in the Middle East. And yet, yesterday, when Mrs. Clinton said we need builders and represented herself as a builder, no one questioned her when she clearly is not the builder in the race. She claimed that she's going to create --
[07:35:00] ROSEN: We need a president of the United States.
MCCAUGHEY: -- 10 million jobs.
CUOMO: All right, Betsy, let's listen to Hilary. Hilary, what do you want to say?
ROSEN: So when you're the President of the United States words matter. So you're in the national security meeting at 8:00 a.m. in the morning and all of a sudden your advisors come and go I don't understand, why are they bombing us. Well sir, Mr. President, yesterday you said you were going to bomb them. I was kidding, he says. You know, that just doesn't fly.
MCCAUGHEY: Oh, that's ridiculous.
ROSEN: You can't -- no, no, it is not ridiculous. You cannot make -- encourage Russians to invade American servers and then say the next day, just kidding. You cannot accuse the President of the United States --
MCCAUGHEY: But, let me -- let me point out --
ROSEN: Let me finish, I let you talk. You cannot accuse the President of the United States of founding a terrorist group when you, yourself, have been advocating the very same policies the president did, and then two days when you're finally sick of the media calling you on it, saying I was being sarcastic. This is not what presidential leadership is about. The first job of being president is being a thoughtful, responsible commander in chief.
MCCAUGHEY: Well, let me --
ROSEN: He is failing that test daily.
MCCAUGHEY: Let me point this out. Yesterday, Mrs. Clinton claimed that she would create 10 million jobs and it reminded me of a similar claim she made when she ran for the New York State Senate in the year 2000. I was there. She came to Upstate New York, a region beleaguered by job losses as you well know, Chris, and she claimed she would create 200,000 jobs. She ran a T.V. ad just before the election making that claim.
And yet, over the eight years, as she sat in the Senate, none of these jobs materialized. And, in fact, manufacturing jobs Upstate, that beleaguered region, plunged 24 percent while Mrs. Clinton was in the Senate. So someone raised the issue how credible are Mrs. Clinton's economic claims? So far, they're absolutely untrue.
CUOMO: Well, it's a legitimate issue. We're just saying it's an issue that exists on both sides. Hoov, you've been listening, what do you think?
MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, I think the lieutenant governor is doing yeomen's work here putting good voice and good reason to Donald Trump's position. And this is -- the challenge in this new environment -- you actually have Trump supporters who are far more articulate at espousing his positions and putting the policy beef on the bone, so to speak.
And the challenge that they run up against is that they have a candidate who -- forget about what he knows about the issues or how extensive his policy depth is, he is reinforcing the narrative of opposition that he is completely erratic and that he has a failure to -- forget about having a core set of beliefs that he can stick with. How about just stick with a consistent line of reasoning, OK?
And the truth is that that is disconcerting to many Independent- leaning voters -- Republican voters who simply don't see the depth of knowledge or character for the person who is presenting themselves to be the next President of the United States, and it's deeply troubling.
KEILAR: But Margaret, what is it when you have someone -- the Star of David goes out, there's anti-Semitic reference to that, and it's no, it's a sheriff's star. She wants to get rid of the Second Amendment. Fact check -- no, she doesn't. We see this one after another. The founder of ISIS, even if it's a turn of phrase, it follows so many -- and he was given a dozen opportunities by Hugh Hewitt to clarify that, put some meat on the bones, add context, he didn't. What is -- just that simple --
HOOVER: Yes.
KEILAR: -- repeated act of saying this is true and no, it's not. What does that do?
HOOVER: Here's the problem. Hillary says words are important and yes, words are important. But you know what's even more important? Having a consistent core belief and the political courage to stand by it. So in the context of 2007 and the surge, and whether we were going to get out of Iraq expeditiously, or stay in.
George. W. Bush made an incredibly politically unpopular decision to double down in Iraq and institute a surge policy which ended up stabilizing the country, enforcing a kind of pluralism that Iraq hadn't seen before and hasn't seen since. It was a courageous thing to do. It proved successful in the eyes of history.
One must ask themselves, if we have seen the kind of behavior from Donald Trump that demonstrates he would have that kind of political courage under fire, let alone the ability to consistently stick with one argument or line of reasoning, that's, I think, what these debates are revealing. It's not just his failure to consistently be careful about his words. Does he have the ability to go even further and actually be a leader that can stand in tough times?
CUOMO: Betsy, this isn't new to you. You've heard --
ROSEN: And can there be a --
CUOMO: Hold on a second, Hilary. You hear from supporters all the time who are close to Trump. He's going to change, he's just doing this right now because it works for him right now but he's going to pivot --
[07:40:00] MCCAUGHEY: I do hear it often, Chris --
CUOMO: -- and it doesn't happen.
MCCAUGHEY: -- but I also, at the same time, hear very reckless rhetoric on the other side which concerns me greatly. For example, Hillary Clinton crisscrosses the country telling people that they are the victims of systemic racism.
In the speech, yesterday in Michigan, she constantly portrayed the Republicans as victimizing the poor. You heard it, the class rhetoric. These are tax cuts only for the rich when, in fact, the whole purpose of Trump's tax cuts is to renew economic opportunity and jobs. Who will benefit the most? Poor people who don't want to be poor forever. They want jobs for themselves and for their children.
And when you look at the record, under President Barack Obama, poverty has increased enormously. Fourteen and one-half percent of our population is now living in poverty. That's eight million more people than when he took office, and nine out of 10 African-American children are now getting food stamps. That's the Democrats.
KEILAR: I do want to, Betsy, give Hilary the final word here.
ROSEN: Well, here's the point. I think that Hillary Clinton would welcome a conversation on the issues. I think she welcomes that in the debate. But you cannot have a policy discussion with Donald Trump the way that Betsy was just trying to have. What you have is a series of throwdowns and a series of attacks. And so Hillary Clinton, yesterday, laid out an economic plan. How she was going to support investment and infrastructure. How she was going to focus on middle- class jobs rather than the tax cuts that Betsy's talking about, which will create trickle down and we know don't work.
CUOMO: Well, so let's do this, Hilary. ROSEN: It's let's have this conversation on this issues.
CUOMO: So let's do this.
ROSEN: Hillary Clinton wants the conversation on the issues.
CUOMO: Well --
ROSEN: Donald Trump wants to be wild and insulting.
CUOMO: Clinton is invited on the show, Trump's invited on the show to talk about what matters. And when they won't, we can, so Betsy, you're always invited back.
MCCAUGHEY: Thank you.
CUOMO: Margaret, as well. Hilary, as well. It's an important conversation.
MCCAUGHEY: Yes, it's an important conversation.
CUOMO: The election matters. Thank you for being here.
MCCAUGHEY: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, so Donald Trump -- one of the things that he likes to say when he gets into situations like this is, this is about you, the media. You're twisting my words. You're nitpicking me because you don't want me to win. Will attacking the press pay off in the long run? We'll discuss, next.
[07:42:30] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:46:00] KEILAR: Donald Trump is lashing out at the media again in a new tweet saying that we don't get sarcasm, after coming under fire for falsely claiming that President Obama is the founder of ISIS. Here to discuss we have Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and the host of "RELIABLE SOURCES". And we also have author and CNN media analyst Bill Carter. So, Bill, you look at this tweet. I mean, it seems like --
BILL CARTER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Yes.
KEILAR: He talked to Hugh Hewitt.
CARTER: Yes.
KEILAR: He talked in interviews. He followed up in an event, publicly, where he seemed to be saying founder of ISIS --
CARTER: Double down, triple down.
KEILAR: -- co-founder -- Hugh Hewitt trying to kind of say --
CARTER: He gave him every opportunity.
KEILAR: -- is what you're really trying to say -- he opens the door --
CARTER: Yes.
KEILAR: -- doesn't walk through it and now it's sarcasm.
CARTER: Right. Well, that seems to be now the operative move if it's not going well. I mean, he's tried that before, saying oh, I was only kidding, it was sarcasm. And really it's because people get on him for it and eventually he seems to realize maybe that was a mistake, I've got to back off. Somebody's maybe in his ear saying it's not playing -- it's not playing well. But it sounds silly, in a way, after you've done it three or four times and been given an opportunity to say I was only kidding, then to say it, just seems like you really aren't committed to it.
KEILAR: What do you think?
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT, HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Yes, the press sometimes does play into Donald Trump's hands by blowing something out of proportion, by making it seem like it was over the top, and by seeming like the media is out to get him. He can take advantage of those opportunities. But we are talking about something really fundamental here. We're talking about the world's most dangerous terrorist group and it wouldn't seem appropriate to be sarcastic about something like that.
CARTER: Yes.
STELTER: If he is going to just say he's joking -- I mean, this is the kind of thing you do with your wife, right? This is what I do with my wife. If I say something that's inappropriate that offends her, I say I was just kidding, honey.
CARTER: I was only kidding.
STELTER: I'm just kidding, honey.
CARTER: That's right.
STELTER: We all kind of know how this works, right?
CARTER: Yes.
STELTER: We're all in this joke. But we're talking about something really serious and I'm glad the press is holding him to account on something so serious.
CARTER: Right, you have to think to yourself, if you're president and you do that you can't the next day, after the market has dropped 500 points or something, say that was actually a joke, don't take that seriously.
STELTER: Well, all of this, he is going to say, is liberal media bias. And every time he attacks the media he's giving himself a vaccine, right? He's vaccinating himself against media scrutiny. KEILAR: But is he, because I -- and yes, he may be, but I also -- I have always thought candidates, Democratic or Republican -- when I hear them start to turn on the press I don't think it's generally coming from a place of strength.
CARTER: It's true. Usually you're in trouble when you attack the press. Usually it's because the stories are negative and it's too harsh. The thing about Trump is, it's ironic. He played the press so effectively and the big criticism during the primary was there's too much attention on Trump. There's too many minutes. All the people counting the minutes. Well, he keeps doing things to generate those minutes. Every time he gives a speech there's some provocative thing he says and that keeps the cycle going.
KEILAR: It seems like the press was chasing him before and now it seems to be a little bit more of a two-way street.
STELTER: Interesting.
KEILAR: I do want to play something that former mayor of New York City, Rudy Giuliani, said about how the press treats Donald Trump. Here's what he said on NEW DAY.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULILIANI, FORMER MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: You don't give him a fair shot. You take his words and you parse them and you take them apart. I was on the plane with him when they called him and they said to him they're accusing you of saying that -- kill Hillary Clinton. He said what, I didn't say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: The comments having to do with --
CARTER: His Second Amendment people.
KEILAR: -- his Second Amendment people, maybe you can do something about it. Is he getting a fair shot from the media, do you think?
CARTER: I think he's getting a legitimately critical shot. I mean, yes, he's being criticized but some of the things he says are extremely outrageous. If you make that comment about the Second Amendment it's going to get reaction. If Hillary Clinton comes out and says something like that she would be really scrutinized and slammed for it. He just seems to do it because he does more off the cuff talking. He's not strictly limiting himself to his comments and it's opening the door to this.
Yes, I think there -- you've done this, Brian. You know the press is now saying we have to really look at this guy seriously. There's a lot going on with this candidate we've never seen before. It's a real challenge for the media, I think.
[07:50:00] STELTER: Yes, to try to treat this candidate like normal would actually fail the audience because he is abnormal. In some ways, that's wonderful.
KEILAR: And what do you mean? Explain that.
STELTER: He is a fascinating character.
KEILAR: Explain that.
STELTER: Meaning -- well, he's not a politician. He comes from a different world. He has different standards for what he will say and what he won't say. He engages with his audience. He uses entertainment values in a way other candidates don't.
CARTER: And that's really effective for him --
STELTER: And that's just the beginning.
CARTER: -- in many ways. You know --
STELTER: It's not a professional campaign the way Clinton has --
CARTER: Yes.
STELTER: -- with hundreds of staffers.
CARTER: No.
STELTER: He's trying to build it up --
CARTER: It's unconventional.
STELTER: -- but there's lots of things that are different about this campaign. And that's why sometimes the coverage doesn't seem fair because if you're talking about 50 percent for Hillary and 50 percent for Donald, that's not the way this campaign can be covered because he's so unusual.
KEILAR: Really great point. Bill, Brian, thank you so much to both of you. Really appreciate it -- Chris.
CUOMO: So, if the election is all about what's wrong with America, the Olympics are about all that's right with America. Team USA is dominating the pool in Rio. Michael Phelps, and now Simone Manuel, making history last night of the best kind. We have a former Olympian with her take about what's been happening in the pool. U.S. swimming gold medalist Dara Torres joins us live, next. Hey, champ.
[07:51:10] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:55:00] CUOMO: So much winning you could almost get sick of it, nah. Team USA dominating the waters in Rio, breaking record after record. Last night, you had Michael Phelps and now Simone Manuel making history in the pool, adding to the U.S. lead in the Olympic medal count.
Let's get some perspective. Twelve-time Olympic medalist Dara Torres, a champ in her own right, joining us. It's great to have you with us. Thank you for how you've represented the country. What do you see in the achievements of Phelps, the team overall, and now Simone Manuel?
DARA TORRES, U.S. GOLD MEDALIST IN SWIMMING: Well, you say 12-time Olympic medalist but, yet, that's nothing compared to Phelps. And now Ledecky is coming along too, grabbing all those gold medals. You know, Team USA is doing an awesome job. Michael Phelps, he's won 10 races so far in seven days. He's on fire. Katie Ledecky has the 800 free tonight.
But the great thing -- I mean, you talk about Simone Manuel -- it has been 32 years since an American has won the 100 freestyle. That was back in 1984, my first Olympic Games. And, you know, you see the veterans but also a lot of first-time Olympians and it's been wonderful. Also swimming against Michael Phelps tonight is Tom Shields, who is a teammate of mine on Team Kellogg's. You know, it's just -- it's wonderful. There's so many new athletes here.
KEILAR: I want to ask you about this rivalry between Ryan Lochte and Michael Phelps, and this being the Games where we will last see this. I mean, arguably, they are two athletes -- and I think we actually have a graphic to sort of show over the ages just how they've gone back and forth between gold and silver. You know, arguably, Ryan Lochte would have been one of the, you know -- perhaps a world champion if Michael Phelps had not been in front of him. But they've really drafted off of each other throughout their careers.
TORRES: Yes, Michael, this is his fourth Olympic win in the 200IM, something that I think Ryan was trying to dethrone him on. I spoke to Ryan at Olympic Trials and he mentioned to me -- I said hey, is this is, are you done? And he said you know, Dara, I just need a break. So I didn't get a yes or no but I think with Michael, this is it for him and what a way to go on top.
CUOMO: You know, we talk about rivalries. You hear about them in sports all the time. In tennis, we talk about them -- great matchups, one-on-one. This one doesn't get talked about that way and is it because that they're actually friends and it kind of takes the poison out of the matchup?
TORRES: Yes, you know, I don't think they're friends in the pool. But, it's funny, at Olympic Trials when they were walking out to one of their events, and I think it was the 200IM finals -- they were walking out and Michael was in front and Ryan accidentally gave him a flat tire on his shoe. And he looked back and was like dude, what are you doing and I started laughing. I said you know that they're really good friends but the minute they get on the blocks they're rivals.
KEILAR: And so, as you watched this performance last night I just don't think we can understate how significant -- we pay a lot of attention to Michael Phelps but Simone Manuel really -- what a performance. So much history made last night.
TORRES: I couldn't believe it. I was hoping that she would medal and then when I was watching the race -- and I was actually calling the race for radio and they're like OK, don't get too excited, don't be too bias, and I couldn't. I was just so excited that she won. And then all of a sudden I blurted out oh, I'm so happy that Simone won. I'm like oh my gosh, did I just say that? But it was so thrilling to watch her. The first African-American -- I mean, it was an absolute thrill.
KEILAR: How -- and you said you were just hoping she would medal, so how unexpected was that?
TORRES: I think it was pretty unexpected because she'd never gone sub-53 before and I knew it was going to take a 52 to win this event. And like I said, it's been 32 years since an American has won. And Abby Weitzeil, from the U.S., was actually the favorite coming into this event.
CUOMO: How much of medaling in the Olympics is about rising to the occasion? Whether it's Lilly King and now Manuel -- people who like are at the best in the biggest moments. How big a part of being a medalist is that?
TORRES: You know, it's amazing how these first-time Olympians have really risen to the occasion. I know when I swam in my first Olympics Games I was 17 years old and I was scared to death. I was nervous, I didn't know what to expect, and that's why I'm excited to be able to mentor some of these athletes on Team Kellogg's.
But, you know, they rise up to the occasion, they know what to do. They got here because they were the best of the best in the Olympic Trials. And so it's always interesting to see how they would do once they get her but it doesn't seem like it's been a problem so far.
KEILAR: Dara Torres, thank you so much for joining us from Rio.
TORRES: Thanks, guys.
KEILAR: We really appreciate it. It's just amazing to watch someone have --
TORRES: Thank you.
KEILAR: -- really, the performance of their career, as she said, with Simone Manuel going under 53 seconds for the first time in the 50 Olympics.
CUOMO: So young, in awe of the experience, in awe of your competitors, and then yet, finding it in yourself to be as good and better, not easy, not easy.
A lot of news this morning. What do you say, let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton -- these are the founders of ISIS.
NOBLES: Republican Party chairman trying to get him to tone down his rhetoric.
TRUMP: Thirty-three thousand emails deleted, discarded. No good, folks.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Mr. Trump may talk a big game on trade but his approach is based on fear, not strength.
