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Hillary Clinton Responds to Donald Trump's Possible Shift of Immigration Policy; Interview with Trump Campaign Manager Kellyanne Conway. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired August 25, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Looking forward to that. Also Hillary Clinton making a lot of headlines this morning. She's responding to Donald Trump's seeming flip flop on immigration in a new CNN exclusive interview. She also responded to questions about her e-mails, questions about the Clinton Foundation, and questions about Donald Trump calling her a bigot. We begin this morning in Tampa, Florida, where we find Sara Murray. Good morning, Sara.

SARA MURRAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. Well, it looks like Donald Trump may be embracing this general election pivot. He has certainly been watering down language when it comes to his previously hardline immigration policies, all of this as he is trying to win over a larger share of minority voters. But Hillary Clinton is watching this all play out, saying wait a second. She wants to stop Donald Trump to be able to pull this off, and that why she is devoting her day to painting Trump as an extremist right wing candidate.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They'll pay back taxes. They have to pay taxes. There is no amnesty. There is no amnesty.

(APPLAUSE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

TRUMP: But we work with them.

MURRAY: Donald Trump suggesting a major reversal on the hardline immigration proposal he has touted since the start of his campaign.

TRUMP: Everybody agrees we get the bad ones out. But when I go through and meet thousands and thousands of people on the subject, and I've had very strong people come up to me, really great, great people come up to me, and they've said Mr. Trump, I love you. But to take a person that's been here for 15 or 20 years and throw them and the family out, it is so tough, Mr. Trump. I have it all the time. It is a very, very hard thing.

MURRAY: Backtracking on his tough talk of using a deportation force to roundup and deport 11 million undocumented immigrants.

TRUMP: I would get people out and I would have an expedited way of getting them back into the country, so they can be legal. They're illegal immigrants. They got to go out. At some point, we're going to try to get them back, the good ones.

MURRAY: Now he appears to be considering deporting those with criminal records, while allowing other immigrants who pay back taxes to stay in the country, remarkably similar to what his opponents pushed during the primary.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, (R) FLORIDA: I don't think you can round up and deport 12 million people.

JEB BUSH, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You pay taxes. You don't receive federal government assistance. You earn legal status, not citizenship.

MURRAY: Plans that Trump criticized back when he was fighting to win the Republican nomination.

TRUMP: They're weak people. Marco Rubio is in favor of amnesty.

MURRAY: Trump's minority outreach inspiring him to lob one of his sharpest attacks against his opponent.

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as votes, not as human beings worthy of a better future.

MURRAY: As Clinton turns the line of attack around on Trump in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper, a preview of the Trump takedown that she is set to delivered in Reno today.

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He is taking a hate movement mainstream. He has brought it into his campaign. You know, someone who has questioned the citizenship of the first African- American president, who has courted white supremacists, who has been sued for housing discrimination against communities of color, is someone who is, you know, very much pedaling bigotry and prejudice and paranoia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MURRAY: Now, we'll hear from both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton at their respective campaign events today, but to get a better sense of what exactly is changing with Donald Trump when it comes to immigration, whether it is truly a change in policy or just a change in tone, we have to look ahead to next week. That's when we're expecting him to deliver an immigration address in Arizona on Wednesday. Poppy?

HARLOW: We'll be listening closely. Thank you so much, Sara Murray, live for us in Tampa this morning.

Hillary Clinton also making big headlines this morning, responding to Trump's immigration shift, also in her interview with Anderson Cooper responding to a whole lot more. This is her first national news interview in about a month. And she took on a number of topics, including the e-mail saga that has been dogging her campaign. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: According to "The New York Times" report, you told FBI investigators that former secretary of state Colin Powell advised you to use a personal e-mail account. His response this past weekend was reportedly, quote, "Her people are trying to pin it on me," and that, quote, "The truth is she was using a private email server for a year before I sent her a memo telling her what I did. He is talking about the private e-mail account." Did you say that to FBI investigators? And is Secretary Powell right? Were you using the server prior to your conversation with him?

CLINTON: Well, look, I have the utmost respect for Secretary Powell, and he was incredibly gracious and helpful after I was nominated and before I took the job. I appreciated the time he took when I was preparing to become secretary, and I valued his advice. I'm not going to re-litigate in public my private conversations with him.

[08:05:02] I've been asked many, many questions in the past year about e-mails, and what I've learned is that when I try to explain what happened, it can sound like I'm trying to excuse what I did. And there are no excuses. I want people to know that the decision to have a single e-mail account was mine. I take responsibility for it. I've apologized for it. I would certainly do differently if I could. But obviously I'm grateful the Justice Department concluded there was no basis to pursue this matter further, and I believe the public will be and is considering my full record and experience as they consider their choice for president.

COOPER: Donald Trump is indicating he would allow some illegal immigrants to remain in the country. Early on during the primaries, you well know, he talked about 11 million undocumented immigrants, they all have to get out. The good ones can come back in, in his words. He has now told FOX News he would work with people if they paid back taxes. He said that's not amnesty. They wouldn't get a path to citizenship. What do you make what appears to be quite a big shift by him on this if this is in fact his policy moving forward?

CLINTON: Well, you know, my understanding is that the comment you just referred to was the third different position he took yesterday on immigration yesterday. Somebody has told him, I guess the latest people that he is consulting, how damaging his statements have been, how terrible his deportation plan is, how offensive his views on immigrants has been from the very first day of his campaign.

So he is trying to do, you know, kind of a shuffle here. But I think we need to look at the entire context. We need to believe him when he bullies and threatens to throw out every immigrant in the country, and certainly changes his position three times in one day. It sends a message that it is just a desperate effort to try to land somewhere that isn't as, you know, devastating to his campaign as his comments and his positions have been up until now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that's Hillary Clinton. Let's now hear from the other side of this campaign, Donald Trump's side. Donald Trump's campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway joins us. Good to see you, Kellyanne.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: Thank you, Chris.

CUOMO: So let's start with you personally. You had to make a tough choice here. We see it sometimes in politics. Not at this level, though. You were with Ted Cruz. You had to shift over and start working for Donald Trump. How much of a problem was it for you personally, because you had been tough on Trump? You had called him out for a lot of things that his critics call him out for. Now you're working for him. Why was the shift OK in your opinion?

CONWAY: I've known Donald Trump for a long time. I respect his business record. I respect the fact that even before he promoted me to this position he has been promoting and advancing women in the Trump Corporation for decades, people of color, people from very different countries across the world, both genders, obviously, all walks of life. That's very compelling to me, because I like to assess people by what they do, not by what they say. And it's particularly important in politics where everybody has a lot to say, and they're never really held accountable.

So I respect Senator Cruz and a lot of his leadership, and was happy to run one of the super PACs affiliated with him, but it was a good transition for me because I'm supporting the Republican nominee for president. I think Hillary Clinton's policies would not be good for this country.

And I'm very respectful of what Donald Trump has built. Usually politicians like Hillary Clinton, they erect campaigns. Donald Trump has built a movement. People feel they're part of that movement. I've been to these rallies, Chris. You see people standing in the rain sometimes for three hours just to say I was there when he was there. And I went to listen to him.

And I actually think people have way too dismissive of what this has meant to the American people, in other words, those who want to attack Donald Trump should be studying his voters and what motivates them. And as a pollster, I have of course traffic in consumers and voters and what motivates them and animates them. And I like Rudy Giuliani because he says every day when he is out in a rally he has never seen anything like it.

CUOMO: It's true. We're certainly living through a unique period in our politics.

We ask everybody who winds up at the top of the Trump campaign this question. When you were running against him, you said, hey, I would like to see his taxes. He wants to talk about transparency, that's fine. Let us see his taxes. Now you're at the head of the campaign. Do you think you can move him on his position of showing his taxes, because thus far we get a blanket no.

CONWAY: Now that I'm at the head of the campaign, Chris, I confer with the lawyers and the accountants who have given him the advice to not release his taxes while he's under audit. And I have to defer to that authority. I'm a fully recovered attorney, 12 step program and everything. I didn't know much about tax law even when I was. And I'm certainly not an accountant. So I have to defer to them now that I'm inside and I understand what their concerns are.

[08:10:00] But I think also the question that most voters have to ask themselves, Chris, is what will my tax be under President Trump, under President Clinton? He went out about 10 days ago now and gave a speech on middle class tax reform. You can go and look at it. You can see what would be his investments in infrastructure. What would be your tax bill? I think people can --

CUOMO: I get that, yes, I don't know how strong a legal case is for why he doesn't have to put it up, but that's up to him and his attorney. He could put out his rate, he could put out what he gave, these flash points for people and he'd still be safe on any reckoning of an audit. Do you think would he do that?

CONWAY: I'm not sure. I would have to ask them. But I'll tell you, if he never says another word on this campaign trail, literally, he will have said a million more things about a million more issues than Hillary Clinton, his opponent.

I'm just amazed that somebody who has been in public life and political life for decades is so thin with her record. Is so -- is telling Anderson Cooper last night, well, people can look at my record. How? She doesn't do what he does. In the last week, this man has gone out and talked to communities of color about issues. He has talked about law enforcement, how to defeat radical Islamic terrorism, how to reform the tax system and make every day more affordable for Americans who feel it is increasingly not so. He has talked about immigration.

So these voters have what they deserve and they expect from him as a candidate, which is he is actually taking the case to the people. Hillary Clinton is going to give a speech today about him and his campaign. At least I'm proud that our campaign is talking to people about the issues they tell CNN and other pollsters they want discussed.

CUOMO: Let's talk about what the campaign is saying on immigration. I see the Conway effect. There is a shift in his talk about immigration, no more round them all up, I'm going to put out an agency to go and find them, the way he was bashing Ted Cruz, bashing Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio for their positions, which sound a lot like what he was saying last night. Why is he changing his position, and what are you trying to achieve?

CONWAY: Donald Trump is against amnesty and I'm against amnesty.

CUOMO: Steve King, who we both know well, would call what he said last night amnesty. Working with undocumented people in any way would be considered amnesty. That's what Trump was saying all along. Now he is saying something different. Why?

CONWAY: Let me tell you what his plan is, because this helps the voters understand where Donald Trump is on immigration. It is this week what it has always been. No amnesty. No sanctuary cities so innocent victims like Kate Steinle who was murdered right in front of her father in San Francisco over a year ago, Chris, by a man who had been deported five times, that should outrage everyone in this country regardless of their political affiliation.

Hillary Clinton is for sanctuary cities, she is for catch and release, she's for open borders. She is actually considerably to the left of President Obama on the issue of immigration. And the only way that the voters are going to know that is if we tell them because she won't. She is hiding from that. No amnesty from him. No open borders. Secure the border, build the wall, have Mexico pay for it, no sanctuary cities, get these businesses to register for e-verify, make them more accountable. You can't just look at somebody's document and look the other way.

CUOMO: That's no different than what Cruz, Rubio, and Bush wanted to do.

CONWAY: No, no, it is different.

CUOMO: How?

CONWAY: Rubio's plan was much more -- this man is not for amnesty.

CUOMO: Neither is Rubio.

CONWAY: Well --

CUOMO: What they said was work with them. You can't deport everybody. You can't break up these families. Donald Trump said exactly that last night.

CONWAY: Senator Rubio is a particularly different case because he led the gang of eight with Chuck Schumer and I think Dick Durbin. The gang of eight, their plan was amnesty. Their plan was and is, if they had their way, and I think it hurt him to try to work with these Democrats who want open borders and it hurt him.

So what voters need to see is what Donald Trump is saying his immigration plan is. But let me just make very clear, because Senator Sessions has been traveling with Mr. Trump, he's got Steven Miller with him every day who worked for Senator Sessions, these are immigration experts. I've been here all week. And I think they are trying to find a way to explain, well, for Donald Trump to articulate to Americans a very complex issue and how he feels about it.

But I assure you, nothing has changed in terms of the policies. I also think that we should all give him credit when it comes to 11 or 12 million illegal immigrants, A, you enforce the laws. You wouldn't believe, Chris, how much would change quickly if you actually enforce the laws that are not being enforced. Number two, he wants to find a quote, these are his words, quote, "fair and humane way of dealing with them," and quote, "he doesn't want to cause people harm." That's leadership. That's presidential. CUOMO: It's also new for him, which is why people are pointing out

the contrast. Something that is not new is something else he said last night. He came right out of the box, I think reading off the teleprompter, you tell me if I'm wrong about that, and called Hillary Clinton a bigot. Do you really believe Hillary Clinton is a bigot? Does Donald Trump even believe that? Why did you have him say it?

CONWAY: Have you seen -- first of all, he uses his own words. And have you seen what he is called, have you heard what he is called in a given day including here on CNN? We have become so inured that it is acceptable somehow to just hurl --

[08:15:11] CUOMO: When people call him a bigot, I'll say why do you call him that? What is it about it that you think is ...

CONWAY: I've never heard a good answer yet. I've never heard a nonpartisan ...

CUOMO: Then they shouldn't call him that. But that doesn't erase what he says.

CONWAY: But somehow it's OK to do that. It's breaking news.

CUOMO: If you're called a bigot it doesn't mean awesome, does that mean it's OK to call her one? He called her a bigot, full stop.

CONWAY: When it's OK to do is to show how repressive her policies and policies that does like her.

CUOMO: Absolutely, make the policy case of course.

CONWAY: ... many mayors and many Democratic mayors and that's what he's been doing for a week now. And, you know, for a long time, he was criticized for not speaking to communities of colors. So the moment he did it, it was like, "Well, I don't like the words you used. Or who is in the ...

CUOMO: Well, he is speaking about them, not to them. He hasn't gone there yet.

CONWAY: That's will, he will. And when I leave here today we're going to meet at 10:00, we're having a meeting with African-American and Hispanic leaders. I was in the Hispanic round table last Saturday when Mr. Trump met with them here in New York. And we had a very productive conversation. So much has been talked about with immigration that was probably 15 percent of the conversation.

I was sitting right there, Chris. They talked about access to capital for small business formation and expansion. These Hispanic leaders told Mr. Trump, reminded him how important home ownership is to the Hispanic community. And what a very relatively low default rate Hispanics have with those home loans.

CUOMO: No question about it.

CONWAY: It's part of the American dream. CUOMO: Yeah.

CONWAY: The multi generational families, how religious many of them are, evangelical and catholic. They talked about national security, they talked about the fact that so many of them come from countries where religious liberty was not appreciated and practiced and protect.

CUOMO: So why doesn't he hammer those issues and leave the angry talk to the side? No reason to call her bigot, make those policy ...

CONWAY: Well, when she gives her speech today. Let's tally it up. Call me later and let's tally up what she calls him. And let's see what CNN says qualifies as breaking news. It's going to say most of today, Clinton "Trump is a racist and pedals in hate." Why in the world this woman not taking this opportunity to tell us what she would do about Obamacare ...

CUOMO: Does that make calling her the same thing OK? It doesn't sound -- I mean look, I get politics. You take the shots that you can get away with. But I'm saying I thought the shift on him was going to be he is going to talk about these things you're talking about that matter, the Hispanic community. He's going to bang policy because he's better at making things happen than she is because of his business acumen. And he's going to leave the hot talk to the side as much as he can. That's why I'm asking, because he didn't.

CONWAY: Listen, he gives several speeches in a week. He gave more speeches in the last 10 days, rallies, policy than she has done in the entire campaign. So if we're going to pick on one word and one speech and not just see the totality of what he's talking about and smoke her out, where in the world are your policies, where are your speeches, Secretary Clinton, on the next chapters of Obamacare, on taking these millions of people out of poverty? Are we blind, Chris? Do we not see our fellow Americans in need?

And I have to give Donald Trump enormous credit in this way. Republican presidential nominees have not. Have not done enough to reach out to communities of color. Have not done enough to go and literally hear from the people themselves, and we plan to do that.

Keep your eye on it, watch for it. We plan to do that. Take our case right to the people. I see the new NBC poll where he is at 8 percent among African-Americans. I'm glad it's above Mitt Romney's 6 percent. But I want it to be 20 percent. I want it to be 30 percent. We need to ...

CUOMO: That would be huge. That would be a game changer for the party.

CONWAY: We need to earn those votes. But look more importantly that earning people's votes is earning their trust and lending an ear, hearing their concerns. And I have to tell you and completely non- partisan lens as an American, I don't like the failing from many schools in some of our communities. I don't like the fact that we had millions more on poverty. We cannot abide as a country the fact that millions still don't have health care, even after Obamacare. And we deserve to know from Secretary Clinton, where are you on these issues? We're taking our case right to the voters, and she's going to talk about a website today. She's going to talk about Donald Trump.

I'm glad we're back in her head. That was goal number one. I'm glad we're obviously there. Her spokesman, Brian Fallon said this morning, "Hey, if you don't like her, don't vote for her." Wow, he just basically told the majority of Americans that say they don't like her and they don't trust her that they don't have to vote for her.

He basically did my job by 8:00 this morning. So I think they're flip- flopping a little bit over there. They're sort of figuring out. And I think they made a huge mistake two, three weeks ago, when our campaign was not doing as well as it is now, they made a huge mistake by not giving these policy speeches, by not going to visiting the troops abroad. She could have put him away and failed to do it.

CUOMO: So we'll see what happens, next.

Kellyanne Conway, great to have you on NEW DAY, as always. Poppy?

HARLOW: All right, Chris, thank you so much. Kellyanne, thank you.

You just heard from Donald Trump's campaign manager on his immigration stance and Hillary Clinton. And a whole lot more. She just said she could have put her -- she could have put him away a few weeks ago. Why didn't she?

[08:19:54] We'll discuss it. Debate it with our panel, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, welcome back to NEW DAY.

We just heard Chris's interview with Trump's new campaign manager Kellyanne Conway. They talked about a lot of things. She talked about a double standard for Clinton versus Trump. She talked about his shift on immigration, a lot to get through.

Let's discuss it with our CNN Political Commentator and Trump supporter, John Phillips, also with us CNN Political Commentator and Former Executive Director of the Congressional Black Caucus, Angela Rye, and with us CNN Political Commentator and Republican Strategist, Ana Navarro. Thank you guys for being here.

Ana, let me begin with you. Let me begin with you on immigration. If you are Jeb Bush, if you are Marco Rubio this morning and you are sitting at home and you are watching what Trump said about immigration and working with them and clearly a flip-flop in changing his stance, two fold question to you. Was this his plan all along, knowing the path to 70 million plus votes in a general is much different in the path of 13 million or so in a primary? And does it help win back folks like you, saying, "All right, I've learned some things, and we're going to soften up this stance?"

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, I hope Jeb Bush is at the gym and I hope Marco Rubio is campaigning. He's got a primary race in a less than a week in Florida.

I think, let me start with your last question. Does it help win over people like me? First of all, let me just say, I don't speak for all Hispanics. I don't speak for all Republicans. I speak for myself. And I think there's a lot of other Hispanics will feel the same way I do.

[08:25:03] We are not going to forget the things that Donald Trump ...

HARLOW: Yeah, just to be clear here, Ana, what I actually meant, and I should have been more clear. What I meant to you, does it help win over people in the Republican Party who were -- who have not been on the Trump train?

NAVARRO: Here's what I think was happening. Here is what I, you know, first of all, I heard Kellyanne Conway today. And she's such a class act, she probably the first person running that campaign who actually seems normal, who knows what she is doing. She, you know, she's the first one that I would leave my puppy with and think and hope that would still be alive when I came back.

And I think that Kellyanne realized that when you were having focus groups, and remember, her background is a pollster, a very good one. When you were having focus groups, a lot of the focus groups were saying, "Donald Trump is a racist." And that was a full stop when it came to Donald Trump.

A lot of people may not like Hillary Clinton. A lot of people may not like Donald Trump. But when you have the word racist in there, it becomes a full stop where you don't hear anybody else.

So at this point, Kellyanne has got to shift that imagine, that perception of Donald Trump as a racist, because it just paralyzes anything else any other progress that Donald Trump can make with people that may be on the fence that may not like either of them and have to make a choice between the two of them.

And so Angela, you just heard and all our viewers heard Chris press her on the use -- of Trump's use of the word "Bigot." I mean, she said, you know, use as his own word, so it wasn't clear if that is in the teleprompter or not. But the point is she said, there's a total double standard, have you heard what Hillary Clinton says about Donald Trump. She even talked about the media. Have you heard what the media says about Donald Trump? And she says there's a total double standard here and you should not be focusing on one word. You should look at the totally of his remarks, and his actions. Any weight that you give that, Angela?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, actually not at all. I think that the media, I think Hillary Clinton, I think Clinton supporters, I think Bernie supporters, I think people independents and those who haven't decided whether they're going to engage in this election at all yet by voting. Have it right when they say that Donald Trump is a bigot. He very well could be racist. And if he is not a racist, he plays with -- he plays with fire. Meaning he is going -- he is -- he is -- he is literally attacking -- tacking on to his campaign, principles and buzz words and dog whistles that racists love to hear.

The fact he was on with Jake Tapper and could act like he didn't know who David Duke was. Or he doesn't know about those other groups.

HARLOW: He later said he couldn't hear and he came out and he disavows.

RYE: I'm just saying. I was getting there. I just hadn't finished my thoughts. So the only thing I was going to say is while he said later, "OK, I rebuke him," he didn't actually say disavow, he said, "I rebuke him." He still struggled with it. And for those of us who have painful memories, whether we heard about it in history books, saw it movies, watched it in eyes price or has first hand experience with racism with death threats from white nationalists, it is troubling.

And at the very least, Kellyanne could acknowledge and his supporters can acknowledge that his playing with this fire is troubling, that is what makes Donald Trump a bigot.

HARLOW: So John, as a Trump supporter, you just heard what Angela said. It is troubling. Here is why, she thinks that he is that, your response as a Trump supporter?

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Donald Trump gets called a bigot every single Tuesday by Hillary Clinton and her supporters. So using this kind of language is something that's not unique to this campaign. It has been going on for quite some time. The temperature in the room is very high.

But I want to get back to the immigration thing here for a second and touch on what Ana said. Today was supposed to be the day that Hillary Clinton gave this speech where she attacks him essentially for being a John Bircher in Nevada. That was supposed to be the story line today. By coming out and moving on immigration or evolving on immigration or however you want to call it. That kind of muddies the water in what's going on.

I know a lot of John Birchers, that movement started here in California. One thing they're not is ideologically flexible, so you can't call him a flip-flopper and a John Bircher in the same day, and have either flip. They're mutually exclusive.

HARLOW: All right, let's take a listen to something that Kellyanne said right at the end of the interview with Chris.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONWAY: And I think they made a huge mistake two, three weeks ago when our campaign wasn't doing as well as it is now, they made a huge mistake by not giving these policy speeches, by not going to visit the troops abroad. She could have put him away and failed to do it.

CUOMO: So let's see what happens next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Do you agree, Ana, that she could have put him away when the campaign wasn't going so well a few weeks ago?

NAVARRO: You know, I don't think anybody can put anybody away at this point.

Look, 2016 is the year of the crazy, the year of the unpredictable, the year where things can change on a dime. We have seen that.

Both of these people, both of these candidates have got to run hard till the very end. There is no such thing as putting somebody away, one of these candidates away in August. It's just -- it would be an irresponsible way to run a campaign.