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New Day
Trump's Shift on Immigration Drawing Criticism; Will Kellyanne Conway Help Trump With Female Voters?; Steve Forbes Talks Presidential Race. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired August 26, 2016 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:31:15] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton intensifying their attacks on each other, using the terms racism and bigot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE TRUMP: Well, she is a bigot because you look at what's happening to the inner cities. You look at what's happening to African-Americans and Hispanics in this country where she talks all the time. She's talking, look at the vets, where she said the vets are being treated, essentially, just fine. That's it's over-exaggerated, what's happening to the vets, not so long ago.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": How is she bigoted? Bigoted is having hatred toward a particular group.
TRUMP: Well, because she's selling them down the tubes because she's not doing anything for those communities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Let's bring in CNN political analyst and "USA Today" columnist, Kirsten Powers. Kirsten, great to see you.
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, COLUMNIST, "USA TODAY": Good to be here.
CAMEROTA: There are often racial undertones in any presidential campaign but now it is overt.
POWERS: Right.
CAMEROTA: I mean, it is front and center as of, basically, yesterday, both of them leveling these charges at each other. What do you think of Donald Trump's strategy of flipping the script and using the term bigot against Hillary Clinton after she had used it on him?
POWERS: Yes, I think he's overplaying his hand a little bit here because there are a lot of things you could say about Hillary Clinton and I don't think a lot of people think that she's a bigot. And so it seems like what they would be focusing on are the things that people already think, and we know what that is. It's that she's not trustworthy. So they should be hammering her on that issue but not trying to sell
people on some new issue which is that she's a bigot because I just don't think anyone believes that. And this is something that's going to gin up his base but it's not going to bring in any new voters.
CAMEROTA: Do you think that it is incumbent upon her to have to defend herself. Does she have to remind people of her record? Because he's now planted this seed does it behoove her to say Children's Defense Fund and talk about what she tried to do as a senator or should she just let it go?
POWERS: Look, she can talk about that, she has talked about it. I seriously doubt that this is something that is going to stick to her. And I think that her speech was a very smart tactic -- the speech that she gave tying him to the alt-right, which is the far right conservative white supremacist movement because it's basically --
What she's trying to do is she's trying to make it absolutely a non- starter for any sort of white suburban voter who's thinking about voting for him to make it just a social stigma, basically. To say this is just not somebody you can vote for because he's associated with people that you don't want to be associated with.
CAMEROTA: To that point, she has released a new campaign ad, just out, so let's watch a piece of it.
POWERS: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IMPERIAL WIZARD, REBEL BRIGADE, KNIGHTS OF THE KKK: The reason a lot of Klan members like Donald Trump is because a lot of what he believes, we believe in. Donald Trump would be best for the job.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For president?
IMPERIAL WIZARD, REBEL BRIGADE, KNIGHTS OF THE KKK: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am a farmer and white nationalist. Support Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Kirsten, is this fair? I mean, is Donald Trump responsible for the repugnant people who may or may not support him?
POWERS: So, here's the thing. Most people who support Donald Trump are not white supremacists but it is true that on white supremacists' sites they are overwhelming Donald Trump supporters. And he hasn't done anything to distance himself from them and --
CAMEROTA: Well, he has said I disavow David Duke. I disavow, I disavow, I disavow, was his quote.
POWERS: OK. Well, David Duke, but he hasn't disavowed these alt- right people and there are these white supremacists websites. They have spent a lot of time attacking journalists, for example, with anti-Semitic attacks.
And when he's been asked about it -- he was asked specifically about attacks made on some journalists at "The New York Times" and another journalist named Julia Ioffe, and he basically said I don't have a message for my fans. OK, so he's saying these people are his fans -- he's acknowledging that and these people making anti-Semitic attacks, and he's not willing to say anything critical about them.
So yes, I think it's absolutely fair. And let's remember that Steve Bannon, who he just hired to run his campaign, is somebody who has said Breitbart, which he ran, is an alt-right website.
CAMEROTA: So -- but if you can separate the alt-right because I think that Donald Trump would say that he welcomes right-wing support --
[07:35:00] POWERS: Right.
CAMEROTA: -- from the much more despicable, repugnant white supremacists --
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: I think that in the past 24 hours, when asked, he has said -- though I don't have it here and I wish I did -- that he doesn't need white supremacist support.
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: But you want him to say it more vocally.
POWERS: That's the first time I've heard him say anything, even remotely, to suggest that he doesn't want their support. And he has -- and the other thing is Julia Ioffe, who is one of the journalists who was attacked when Melania was asked about it, basically suggested that she had invited it on herself.
We're talking about people sending pictures of Julia Ioffe with her face put on concentration camp victims. I mean, these are really despicable, sickening images and they refuse to condemn them.
CAMEROTA: We do have that sound now of Donald Trump denouncing it. Let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADAM SEXTON, ANCHOR/POLITICAL REPORTER, "WMUR", MANCHESTER, NEW HAMPSHIRE: She's trying to turn this around on your now, saying you're bringing a hate movement mainstream. Do you want white supremacists to vote for you?
TRUMP: No, I don't at all, not at all. And I will tell you, this is not about hate, this is about love. We love our country. We want our country to come back. We want our country to be strong again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: What do you think of that response?
POWERS: That was a good response. It's a new response. I suspect Kellyanne Conway is behind it. This has not been the tone that he has used. So in the past when he's been asked, he has not offered those kind of condemnations.
CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Kellyanne Conway.
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: She is well-respected. She's a political hand that's been around for a long time and she is the first female campaign manager for a GOP nominee.
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Do you think that those things will help sway female voters towards Donald Trump?
POWERS: She has her work cut out for her, let's put it that way. Let's just start with the fact that it's already difficult for a Republican to win women voters. They vote -- they overwhelming lean Democratic. They vote for Democrats.
We already are seeing the gender gap -- the last time a Republican won women was George -- the first George Bush. He won them by one point. So it's been a long time since Republicans have won women voters, so let's just start there.
Then we know that Donald Trump has a very high disapproval rating among women, somewhere between 60 and 70 percent. I don't know what Kellyanne can do in this short time to change that. And especially, like I said, when you look at the speech that Hillary Clinton is giving and this attack that she's making on him. I think that's something that's going to resonate with women voters, as well.
So you have the first woman candidate running against somebody who is largely seen by women as being pretty macho, pretty chauvinistic. She's going to have to somehow turn that around. I don't know how she does it.
CAMEROTA: Kirsten Powers, always great to get your analysis --
POWERS: Great to be here.
CAMEROTA: -- here on NEW DAY. Thanks so much. Let's get over to Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: And, in truth, Kellyanne and the campaign embracing a lot of what Trump continues to do, and part of that is this shift on immigration. There's no question he's been putting out mixed messages about this. The question is why? What is the plan to expand the base? The media mogul and former Republican presidential candidate, Steve Forbes, is going to weigh in live, next.
[07:38:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK) [07:41:20] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: If you haven't committed a crime and you've been her for 15 years and you have a family here, you have a job here, will you be deported?
TRUMP: We're going to see what happens once we strengthen up our border but there is a very good chance the answer could be yes. We're going to see what happens. Before I do anything I want to get rid of the bad ones, and there are a lot of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: In the primary, Donald Trump would have called that answer weak, not energetic. But now he's saying look, I'm not supporting a path to legalization for any immigrant here illegally unless they leave the country first. And I will work with people who are here illegally. Certainly, it's a shift on the stance. The question is why, what could this do, how can this be seen as a positive?
Let's discuss with somebody who understand the issues very well. The chairman and editor-in-chief of "FORBES MEDIA", former Republican presidential candidate endorsing Donald Trump, Steve Forbes. Pleasure to have you here, as always.
STEVE FORBES, CHAIRMAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "FORBES MEDIA", FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: There is no real good use of time in debating whether or not there is a shift. The question is why shift and what you believe the positive impact can be? What's your take?
FORBES: Well, what he's trying to do is to give doubters out there to say I can take a chance on this guy. He's not going to send people in boxcars, he's not an extremist. We don't want another term of a Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.
The economy is not doing well, the world's falling apart, so we can take a chance him. If it doesn't work we can throw him out. But that's what he's got to do, pivot back to third term. If it's about his temperament, he loses. If it's about third term, he wins.
CUOMO: So, if Steve Forbes were running against him and, frankly, the guys he ran against in the primary -- if he -- if they were against him now they'd say are you kidding me? You're the guy who said put them in boxcars. You're the guy who says I'm going to put in a force to round them up and get rid of them. It's how he distinguished himself. He tooted it like a trumpet every time, now this. Why take a chance on someone who you don't know which position he's going to take?
FORBES: Well, this is where he's got to really pivot to the economy, especially on the issue of taxes.
CUOMO: But, Steve, you can't pivot away from -- this has to be dealt with on its own, not -- FORBES: Yes, but what -- the whole --
CUOMO: -- by talking about something else.
FORBES: The whole thing on the immigration thing. First of all, even though he said he was going to deport 11 million, I and others said it's not never going to happen.
CUOMO: But he said it and he said I didn't mean it --
FORBES: But he said --
CUOMO: -- and anyone who doesn't agree is weak.
FORBES: Well, and they didn't find a way to counter it. If they had -- they shrunk away from the issue and that's the whole thing in the 16 versus him. They let him define the terms of debate and they never took him on, and so he won. He won the nomination.
The thing is now on immigration. I don't think even his hardcore supporters, like Steve King in Iowa, really believed he was going to deport 11 million. He was making a statement. We're going to be tough, we're not going to have amnesty cities, we are going to beef up the border patrols. We're not going to -- we're going to cut down on the people coming into this country. People here in this country just are sick and tired of the feeling that everything is falling out of control.
CUOMO: Right, but what they don't like --
FORBES: And the thing with that immigration issue was he said we're going to enforce the law. We are going to get people who feel powerless in control again and you're going to have a better economic future.
CUOMO: Right, but the first part of that -- and we will shift to the economy -- but the first part of that, it was I'm not like everybody else, I'm Donald Trump. I'm no politician, I'll never change. This is who I am. And now he's doing just that.
Jeb Bush came out this morning. We don't have to spend the time listening to him but he said -- not that it's a waste of time but just in the conservation of time -- he said I find what he's doing abhorrent. He's being a politician just like every other politician would. He's shifting when it's convenient. Fair criticism?
[07:45:00] FORBES: He can -- he knew -- I suppose Trump knew he was going to be criticized on that, some of us would say. He's showing growth, so it depends on how you --
CUOMO: Nice to have friends.
FORBES: Yes.
CUOMO: All right, so -- FORBES: But the key thing is he wants to show doubters he's not going to be crazy next to the nuclear button. And that's what she's trying to do -- say this guy doesn't have the temperament for the office. He's trying to say we can't have four more years of what we have experienced in the last decade.
CUOMO: And the gamble is will they see the inconsistency as an unfitness, as well. We'll see how it plays out. On the economy --
FORBES: Growth, growth.
CUOMO: It's growth versus inconsistency, we'll see. So, "The Wall Street Journal" comes out with a piece where they poll these White House economists. And even the Republican ones -- not one of over a dozen said that they're for Trump's plan or for him personally. Is that relevant?
FORBES: Well, it's relevant about what the economics profession has descended into. There's also a piece in the "Journal" today about the Federal Reserve and this is a guy who was very close to the Federal Reserve. They've made massive mistakes. Their whole model of the economy -- the whole economics model of the economy is wrong. The idea that you can manipulate interest rates and control this --
CUOMO: But they operate -- just for those who don't know, they operate separate from the Executive. It's not like the president tells them what to do.
FORBES: No. Well, I think you're going to see a major change in the Federal Reserve. It should be an issue because they've made major, major mistakes, especially access of credit to small and new businesses, which have been starved for credit. It's one reason why we have these poor labor markets.
And so, these economists who take the -- who have this distorted view of the economy, who believe that raising taxes and government spending stimulates the economy --
CUOMO: These were Republicans.
FORBES: Yes, but they take a static view. They assume when they say oh, we'll have these big deficits they assume that when you lower tax rates and simplify the tax code you don't get much feedback. And so we've been fighting these people. We call them, among my people, is root canal conservatives.
CUOMO: But Trump did not adopt the Forbes tax model in his plan and that's why a lot of economists who are Forbesian, to coin a term, say we don't like it. That's he going to -- he may lose us jobs. How many, we don't know, but most people put the estimate over a million --
FORBES: But --
CUOMO: -- and that it's going to hurt the tax structure of the country, not help, because it's not Forbesian enough. So why are you behind it?
FORBES: Well, halfway is better than no way. And what she wants to do in terms of raising the capital gains tax -- take it back to where it was in the 1970's, which destroyed the whole venture capital industry. We didn't have it in the 70's. Forty-five percent capital gains tax rate is absurd.
She wants every -- she wants to have a soda tax, she wants to have a stock transaction tax, she wants income tax raises. These would just slam the economy. And so compared to her, he's sterling. And he wants to have --
CUOMO: A lot of economists rate her as better than his in terms of what it would do for job development.
FORBES: And look what they've done in the last 15 years -- disaster. So see what the whole approach has given us. That's why we need a new approach. And by the way, in terms of economists, you have a dozen, I can find a dozen. Art Laffer, Steve Moore, and others -- Larry Kudlow. I've worked on the Trump plan and think there's a lot of good there in it -- reducing tax rates, simplifying it. I'd like a flat tax but this is better than what we have now, far better.
CUOMO: A little question for you at home. Who is the president who said what I want is an economist with one hand? So he can't say on the other hand.
FORBES: Harry Truman.
CUOMO: There it is. Steve Forbes, thank you very much.
FORBES: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: Always appreciate your perspective -- Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. As you know, in the Olympics there's basketball's dream team, there's gymnastics "Final Five" and, of course, U.S. rowing's "Elite 8". Eight came up gold in Rio. These women are so powerful that just five of them add up to eight. We'll explain, next.
[07:48:45] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:52:40] CAMEROTA: The U.S. swimmers were not the only ones making a splash in Rio. The U.S. women's rowing team brought home its third consecutive Olympic gold medal and its 11th consecutive win in an international competition. They have not lost since 2006.
CUOMO: Amazing, amazing. We have five members of that phenomenal team with us right now. We've got Katelin Snyder, Amanda Elmore, Kerry Simmonds, Amanda Polk, and Emily Regan here with us.
CAMEROTA: Great to see you guys.
CUOMO: Congratulations. Thank you for representing the country so well. What do you think -- now, let me ask you something. Is it wrong? Katelin, were you the coxswain?
KATELIN SNYDER, U.S. WOMEN'S ROWING OLYMPIC TEAM: I was.
CUOMO: All right. I don't know how I knew that.
(Laughter)
CUOMO: What do you think made this crew special?
SNYDER: Oh my gosh. I mean, there are a lot of things. I think the biggest thing is just the amount of trust that we had in each other. And I don't think there was ever any moment in practice or in the race where I doubted anybody in the boat, their effort or their focus. And so, we were just able to go to the line, just kind of let everything go and put complete faith in the boat and in the rhythm, and it was awesome.
CAMEROTA: But wasn't there a moment during the race that you didn't know you were going to win? You weren't in the winning position the whole time, you were in third for some of that. Right, Amanda?
AMANDA ELMORE, U.S. WOMEN'S ROWING OLYMPIC TEAM: Yes. I mean, we got through the halfway point at the 1,000-meter mark and Katelin said we're a few seats down on Canada. But I think -- I looked over at that point -- that was the only time I looked over -- and --
CUOMO: Are you supposed to look over?
ELMORE: No, you're not supposed to but --
CUOMO: Aren't you told to never look over?
ELMORE: Right, but sometimes it's hard not to. And I just -- even though we were down I never thought we would lose, I just knew it would be hard. And we went really hard and pulled ahead.
AMANDA POLK, U.S. WOMEN'S ROWING OLYMPIC TEAM: It was amazing. I remember that feeling, also. And typically, you would think we weren't used to being down, especially by the 1,000, but there was no doubt or no feeling of wavering like oh, we don't have this. There was just calm, almost confident -- just a very electric feeling. You could feel like -- as soon as Katelin made another call and she actually --
CAMEROTA: Yes, what did she say? Didn't Katelin say something --
POLK: She did.
CAMEROTA: -- that supercharged the --
CUOMO: She said speed up, speed up.
(Crosstalk)
CAMEROTA: What did she say? KERRY SIMMONDS, U.S. WOMEN'S ROWING OLYMPIC TEAM: I mean, the call I think most of us remember at this point about -- just after halfway point -- was "we are the U.S. women's eight" and I think the next stroke was just probably a little sloppy but it was just power, yes.
CUOMO: Now, just so you know what, we're probably ahead of the audience. Give us a little setup of who's in the boat, where's the coxswain, why does the coxswain get a name and everybody else is done by number? Just let us know what the boat is.
EMILY REGAN, U.S. WOMEN'S ROWING OLYMPIC TEAM: OK, so when we're in the boat we have the bow and the stern. And for people who don't know --
CUOMO: The front and the back.
REGAN: Yes. So the bow is the part that leads the boat and it's moving forward first, and the stern is the back of the boat. So Katelin sits in the stern and I actually sat in the bow, so I was the first one across the finish line.
(Laughter)
CUOMO: So technically you won.
(Crosstalk)
REGAN: So going down the boat it's like -- we call it bow seat, which is also one seat, through eight seat, and then Katelin's the ninth seat. And each person sort of has a different role but everything comes together to make it work. So, Amanda Elmore was our stroke seat and she's in charge of setting the rhythm and making sure it's consistent and that we're basically like a freight train rhythm going down the course.
And then the person who follows her is seven seat and that was El Logan and she is the only girl who's been in the boat for all three Olympic gold medals over the last three cycles. And she backs up the rhythm. And then in the middle of the boat it's the powerhouse.
CUOMO: It's kind of like when we dance at the parties.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
REGAN: Yes.
CAMEROTA: You --
CUOMO: I try to set a pace and then you back up the rhythm so people can still dance.
CAMEROTA: I do that.
(Crosstalk)
CUOMO: So they can ignore me and go with the backup, everything's OK. (Crosstalk)
CAMEROTA: I got it. Now I understand. Thank you.
REGAN: And so everybody is helping set up the rhythm, but especially our stroke seat and our seven seat. They lead the starboard on the port side, so each person has an oar going out one side of the boat. And then in the middle of the boat that's four, five, six -- three, four, five, and six. I know what I'm talking about, I swear. They're the powerhouse and they're like really so strong and they just kind of power the boat down the course. And then in the bow pair, which is where Kerry and I sat, we kind of helped set up the boat --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just go along for the ride.
REGAN: -- and, yes, help also kind of try and get back the rhythm.
(Crosstalk)
CAMEROTA: Right, so it's a team effort, basically.
REGAN: It is. And so everybody -- you try and find the best lineup to make the boat move the fastest.
CAMEROTA: And it worked beautifully. And so, Katelin, when you said this is the U.S. women's eight, what were you -- I mean, duh -- so what were you --
SNYDER: So guys, just so you know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said it with conviction.
CAMEROTA: So why was that such a sort of call to arms?
SNYDER: Yes. I mean, I think, like I said before, just because we have so much trust and faith in each other. It was just, I think, a little bit of a reminder that the race is bigger than us, as individuals.
CAMEROTA: But it's a storied team.
SNYDER: It's a storied team, it's a storied boat. And we are doing it for the girl in front of you, the girl behind you, and the girls that are at home in Princeton, not even in Rio. And I think that for us, something that makes us greater than the sum of our parts is that we really do believe that rowing, and especially being in the eight, is more than just you as an individual.
CAMEROTA: That's beautiful. Well, it's so great to meet you guys. Thanks so much for the win. Congratulations on all of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Just a wonderful thing for Team USA.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy to represent. CAMEROTA: All right, we're following a lot of news in the 2016 race for the White House so let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: She lies and she paints decent Americans, you, as racists.
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trump is trying to rebrand himself, but don't be fooled.
TRUMP: And we're going to deport many people. Many, many people.
CLINTON: His real message seems to be make America hate again.
TRUMP: Well, I don't think it's a softening, it's a hardening.
CLINTON: A man with a long history of racial discrimination should never run our government or command our military.
BERMAN: Ryan Lochte hoped an apology would be enough. It was not.
CUOMO: Ryan Lochte now facing charges in Brazil. If convicted, he could face between one to six months in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone, welcome to your new day. It's Friday, August 26th, 8:00 in the East.
Donald Trump delivering mixed messages on immigration. The Republican candidate shifting, yet again, telling CNN he has hardened his stance on undocumented immigrants just one day after he said he was softening it.
CUOMO: So what's the net effect? Well, the campaign is now all in insults, all the time, literally. You have two candidates for president debating who is really a bigot. Who wins, how do you not lose in all this? Let's go first to CNN's Jason Carroll. He's in Manchester, New Hampshire. Good morning, my friend.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Chris. You know, Donald Trump may be very clear when it comes to where he stands on the issue of race but his critics say not so much when it comes to where he stands on the issue of illegal immigration. He tried to clear that up when he spoke to CNN's Anderson Cooper last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: There is no path to legalization --
COOPER: I'm talking about taxes --
TRUMP: -- unless people leave the country. Well, when they come back in, if they come back in, then they can start paying taxes.
