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What Is Fueling Chicago's Gun Violence Epidemic?; Colin Kaepernick Blasted For Sitting Out National Anthem; Pastor Who Posted Clinton Blackface Tweet Speaks Out. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:31:30] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There's still four months left in 2016, right, and already the city of Chicago has seen a rapid rise in crime year over year. August, the most violent month in the city's last 20-year recorded history.

The Illinois governor is now fighting to put an end to straw purchasing. That's where somebody can't get a gun themselves so they get somebody else to buy it for them. That's, of course, illegal. Now, the lawmakers in Illinois say that's the source of nearly 60 percent of guns in the city's violent neighborhoods. Is that the key to changing the violent dynamic in Chicago?

Let's discuss with somebody who knows, Garry McCarthy, Chicago's former police department superintendent. Thank you very much for joining us.

GARRY MCCARTHY, FORMER CHICAGO POLICE DEPARTMENT SUPERINTENDENT: Good morning, Chris, thanks.

CUOMO: So when we look at the situation in Chicago, not as many people or as many checklists of problems as you see in Los Angeles or in New York City, for example, but the homicide rate higher. Why? What's the difference?

MCCARTHY: I think the short answer is that we've gotten ourselves completely wrapped around the axel. You mentioned gun laws. Gun laws have been an issue in the state of Illinois for a long time. I talked about it from the day I got here.

You need to go to jail if you're in possession of an illegal firearm. Yet, in the state of Illinois, possession of an illegal firearm is not even considered a violent crime for sentencing purposes. So that's a common thread that's been happening here for a long time.

CUOMO: So let's talk about -- let's get a -- because you have some really -- you have some very provocative and, some would argue, controversial views about why Chicago continues to be violent. What do you believe the reason is that the numbers don't seem to go down, no matter what the politicians say they're doing?

MCCARTHY: Well, I think there's a lot of reason, but the short answer is the fact that the problem has been misdiagnosed and we're not taking the right medicine for what ails us. The Chicago Police Department, right now, is in turmoil. It's been in turmoil for the last nine months. The rules seem to have been bent or thrown out.

I want to make it clear that I don't think one of these young black men needed to die at the hands of police from anything that I've seen across the country over the recent past. However, there's been a common thread to that of noncompliance.

And that noncompliance, I think, is -- there's two things happenings. We have less aggressive police. That's reflected in the enforcement numbers. That's happening for a number of reasons. They probably don't even know what's expected of them right now.

[07:35:00] David Brown, my friend, the chief in Dallas, articulated this very eloquently after he had those officers murdered. I'm not sure they know what to do. There's a game of musical chairs, it's been called, that's going on over in CPD with so many movement -- so much movement, so many changes.

CUOMO: CPD meaning the Chicago Police Department. That there's been a lot of rotation.

MCCARTHY: Yes, sure.

CUOMO: You know, most people point to gangs. The difference between New York and Chicago, and even L.A. now, is gang interdiction. That you have this mob of thousands of violent people potentially fighting for turf, doing different things, getting into it online now to set up violence, and that's why Chicago is the homicide capital. Do you agree with that?

MCCARTHY: Absolutely. It's a huge factor here in Chicago. My experience in New York and Newark, New Jersey -- total different gang dynamic that's happening here. But the biggest thing that I see that's happening right now that people are not talking about is the issue of the legitimizing of noncompliance with the law. We have police officers getting punched in the face at protests and we can't get them prosecuted here.

There's been changes in policy that have it that officers are now getting prosecuted or charged administratively when there's a criminal proceeding still going on with Jason Van Dyke. That's going to harm that case. These are changes in policy.

The rules seem to have gone out the window and the legitimizing of that noncompliance is happening on a number of levels, from community leaders to elected officials, and I'll say right to the Department of Justice, who's telling us that we should be using population demographics to construct our crime strategies, not crime data. Not when, where, and who is committing crimes.

CUOMO: But why -- how does noncompliance -- how does noncompliance figure into your gang dynamic because my time spent out there, whether I was with brother Bill Daley 15 years ago or dealing with Diane Latiker and her Kids Off the Block thing. They talk about this gang is its own world. They don't respect the police. They're never going to be compliant that way.

MCCARTHY: No, you're absolutely correct. However, they're more emboldened now based upon the political climate in this country. There's more investigations into police departments across this country now than ever in the past, to my knowledge.

And at the end of the day this goes right to the Constitution of the United States and the founding principles of the social compact that you give up certain freedoms to live in a civilized society. And those freedoms that we're talking about are you can't pick up a gun and walk down the street illegally. And that's not being enforced here in Chicago.

It's not happening in the state of Illinois. But that's also reflective of other places across the country. This is not just a Chicago problem, it's a policing problem across the country. Less enforcement, more emboldened criminals, more crime.

CUOMO: And Garry, we saw that in this recent case with Dwyane Wade's cousin. One of the guys was on parole for a gun charge. Thank you for the perspective. Appreciate it here on NEW DAY. Be well.

MCCARTHY: Be well. Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Donald Trump and the White House weighing in on the 49ers' quarterback Colin Kaepernick's seated protest during the National Anthem. So will this affect some change? We have two former NFL stars to give us their perspective, next.

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[07:42:00] CUOMO: 49ers' quarterback Colin Kaepernick taking a stand by sitting. The quarterback's fellow players and coaches continue to weigh in on his decision to remain seated during the National Anthem at a preseason game. Kaepernick says he's protesting America's treatment of people of color. So what affect will this protest have? Will the team release him?

Here to discuss, former NFL wide receivers Donte Stallworth and Hines Ward. Hines, also a CNN sports contributor. Gentlemen, I can't think of better people to discuss this with than you two. Thank you for joining us.

There is somewhat of a distraction in this story. There is no question that Colin Kaepernick has the right to do this, certainly constitutionally. And within the NFL's own rules you are not compelled to stand for the National Anthem. The question is what it right to do it? Hines, your take?

HINES WARD, CNN SPORTS CONTRIBUTOR, FORMER NFL WIDE RECEIVER: On my take, I applaud him for his passion for the cause but I just think he's going about it the wrong way in the sense that you're making a protest but you're doing it at the will of the 49ers. You're bringing in the organization. You're bringing in your teammates. Now, not everybody on that team believes in the same protest as Colin Kaepernick, so that's where you kind of have a distraction because now it's all about Colin Kaepernick rather than the San Francisco 49ers.

CUOMO: Donte?

DONTE STALLWORTH, FORMER NFL WIDE RECEIVER: Well, I think that the -- his initial comments were reported on Friday night so we've had all of Saturday, we've have all of Sunday, we've had all of yesterday -- Monday -- to discuss whether he was right or wrong. Everyone has their own different takes. I think even, as Hines said, some of his teammates -- and from what I saw they've pretty much stood behind him.

But I think if we really want to have an honest discourse I think that we've had enough time to discuss whether he was right or wrong. Now I think it's time to move to phase two. Phase two, to me, would be talking about the substance of what he said. And when he was asked about -- when he was asked to expound on what he was discussing, I think the number one thing is that he made a plea for accountability.

And if you look at what the Justice Department had released over the past year or so, there have been a number of cities from Albuquerque to Baltimore to Ferguson that have -- that have had racial bias in their practices where the Justice Department called them deeply troubling.

And also, he was asked about the veterans. I don't think he intended -- I think people interpreted a different way that maybe he intended. Some people had their own interpretation of the military but he spoke highly of the military. He spoke highly of the military and he talked about the veterans, how he has a great respect. He's had family and friends.

But he talked about the issues when they come home, you know, the PTSD. Twelve percent of all homeless people are veterans and 20 percent -- or 20 veterans each day on average kill themselves. That's the issues that I think that we should move to. Whether it's a distraction or right or wrong, I think we've had enough time to talk about that. If we want to have a honest discussion --

CUOMO: Right.

STALLWORTH: -- we need to move forward at some point.

CUOMO: Hines?

[07:45:00] WARD: But here's the thing. The NFL season kicks off on the 15th anniversary of 9/11. Now talk about distraction. Now, the 49ers, they play the Rams on Monday night, September 12th, but the whole weekend is catered around the 15th anniversary of 9/11. Talk about distraction and the backlash that he's going to receive -- and not only from him, but the organization, if he doesn't stand up during the National Anthem when we're celebrating the 15th anniversary of 9/11.

CUOMO: You know, it comes down, Donte -- in terms of the scrutiny, it's how he's doing this.

STALLWORTH: Yes, right.

CUOMO: You know, you're talking to what he's talking about.

STALLWORTH: Right.

CUOMO: You know, you don't need to be a quarterback in the NFL to understand that we have issues going on with policing in this country. Right, wrong, is about noncompliance, is it about excessive force? These are real dialogues that are going on. It's how he did it. Your feeling about it is what?

STALLWORTH: You know what? Personally, I think he obviously has the right. I don't -- honestly, I'vequarreled over this for a long time. I don't know if I agree with it or disagree with it but I do believe that at the end of the day, when is there a good time to speak out on these issues?

You know, again, you had Jim Brown come out and say that he didn't agree with the way he did it, but if you listen to the substance of what he said he's actually talking about -- he's actually making valid points and he's --

HINES: Well, but no one -- but no one is saying that he's doing it wrong. There's just other ways that he can go about doing it. Start a foundation, donate all your money for the cause. Do it on your own time, don't do it on the team's time -- the organization's time -- the league of the NFL.

STALLWORTH: But also, too, I think -- I think that when you -- when you look at these issues with social injustice and social inequality, you know -- Martin Luther King was -- when he said America was the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, he got a lot of -- obviously, he got a lot of backlash for that. Muhammad Ali, when he did not want to step forward to the draft he got a lot of backlash for that.

So I don't think there's -- I mean, there's really not a convenient time. Whether we agree with it or not, I mean -- honestly, I'm not sure if I fully agree with it but he has a right to say that.

CUOMO: Sure.

STALLWORTH: And I think there is no -- when you have these issues it's never a convenient time for people to speak out on it. It's always going to be wait, we shouldn't speak on -- we shouldn't speak on gun violence --

CUOMO: Right.

STALLWORTH: -- the day after a number of kids are murdered in Connecticut, over there, at a Newtown school. I mean, when is there a right time to talk about these issues?

CUOMO: Right, but, you know, it's interesting. One of the things I think deserves some discussion is these parallels, as you mentioned, the Jim Brown or Muhammad Ali. And, you know, Hines, do you think that Kaepernick belongs in the same conversation with those guys?

WARD: No.

CUOMO: I mean, they were coming out of a period in time where turmoil was in the streets every day and they took principle stands, not just on the field, but off the field as private citizens, that brought tremendous heat on them that is absolutely not even close to what Kaepernick's dealing with.

WARD: Correct. I mean, I look at what LeBron James and Dwyane Wade -- those guys made a stance at the ESPYs. They didn't do it on the basketball court where they're affecting the other guys because everybody probably has a different opinion about it. So I just look at it in football.

STALLWORTH: Yes.

WARD: Donte, you know, it is a total team sport. It's not about I, it's not about what I believe in doesn't matter. It's about the 52 other guys that I line up with each and every day and our focus is to win a Super Bowl. So I think by Kaepernick taking this protest, you're taking away from the team and the goals of trying to do that to achieve what? I really don't understand. It's just bad timing in the process of kind of how he's going about doing it.

And like I said, football is no different than like Muhammad Ali. He's a boxer so he's fighting for himself. It's just about Muhammed Ali. It's not about the 52 other guys that I have to go out there and help win to try to win the Super Bowl.

CUOMO: Donte, Hines, thank you so much for the perspective on this. I appreciate it. The conversation will continue and the underlying issues certainly deserve the conversation. You're both right about that. Take care.

HINES: Thank you.

CUOMO: So, what do you think? Tweet us @NewDay. Post your comment on facebook.com/NewDay -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, a pastor and a Trump surrogate apologizing for a tweet with an image of Hillary Clinton in blackface. Up next, we will speak live with that man, pastor Mark Burns, about his tweet and how he feels about it this morning.

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PASTOR MARK BURNS, THE HARVEST PRAISE & WORSHIP CENTER, TRUMP SURROGATE: The tweet was not designed to anger or stir up the pot like it did. It was designed to bring how I feel the very real reality as to why the Democratic Party, and how I view it and have interpreted it, have been pandering and using black people just for their votes.

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CAMEROTA: That was prominent Donald Trump surrogate, pastor Mark Burns, apologizing last night after posting a cartoon of Hillary Clinton in blackface. The tweet read, "Black Americans thank you for your votes and letting me use you again. See you again in four years."

And joining us now is CEO of the NOW Network, pastor Mark Burns. Pastor, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY.

BURNS: Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: In your apology that you tweeted out last night at about 10:00, you said I had no intention of stirring the pot, but tweeting out someone in blackface is obviously an incendiary symbol. What were you trying to do?

BURNS: Well, you know, again, as I said in my -- in my apology, that I prayed that those who I offended really receive it as a sincere apology because it was never my intention to hurt anyone or to offend anyone. But the message is very clear in what I was trying to say. Obviously, my message, I stand by it, but the methodology, I do not.

The message is simply this. I believe that the Democrat Party has been using the black vote -- that black voting bloc and because the Democrat Party already knows that they own that voting bloc. The promises that have been made to the African-American community are not being carried out.

[07:55:00] When we look at many of our urban communities in our country and we look at the high crime rate --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: -- of the high unemployment rate. And we also know that most of these urban centers are led by Democratic -- a Democratic rule -- A Democratic Party rule.

CAMEROTA: Sure. So, I mean, and these are the same points that Donald Trump -- sorry to interrupt, Pastor, but these are the same points that Donald Trump has been making. But did you not understand how inflammatory and offensive the image of Hillary Clinton in blackface would be in order to make that point?

BURNS: Well, as I said, I really think, in hindsight, my methodology, if I could do it all over again -- there are so many different creative ways of getting my message out there to the public to say hey, listen, African-Americans, we need to make the Democratic Party work for our vote.

We don't need to just vote for them en masse when the net worth of black families in this country is between $5,000 to $7,000, but the net worth of a white family in American is between $93,000 to $100,000. That even now, in many schools in our country, urban minority children

are doomed to fail on the day that they enter the public school system because many of our schools in these communities are underperforming.

CAMEROTA: yes.

BURNS: And yet, our society is allowing them to stand a vicious cycle by the time they get into middle school and right before they are entering the high school they're dropping out --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: -- and enter into a lifetime of crime. Now, that's not every black --

CAMEROTA: Sure.

BURNS: -- every African-American situation, but it is -- it represents a large portion of us.

CAMEROTA: Yes, and that's the message, obviously, that you want to drive home to people. What did Donald Trump say to you about that tweet that you sent out?

BURNS: Well, I haven't spoken directly to Mr. Trump. Obviously, it was never my intention to -- you know, this campaign needed to be more so about the policies of the candidates and I'm supporting those policies.

For me, the last thing I wanted to do was to draw attention away from Mr. Trump's policy and our historic up and coming event this Saturday at the Impact Network in Detroit, Michigan, where Mr. Trump will be there at Great Faith Ministries, along with the pastor, Apostle Wayne T. Jackson. And will do an interview answering questions that are of value within the African-American community --

CAMEROTA: Sure.

BURNS: on the Impact Television Network.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: So, for me, the worst thing that I wanted to do was take attention away from that.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: Mr. Trump is reaching out to the African-American community because he cares for all Americans --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: -- and he wants all Americans to prosper. And that includes the African-American community whom I believe, based off of my controversial tweet, that the African-American vote has been taken advantage of by the Democratic Party. CAMEROTA: And Pastor, I know that you say that you want to just deal with the issues and substance yet, here again, here is another example. You retweeted this photograph. This is allegedly -- it claims to be of Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton in blackface. This is not true. This has been disproven and debunked time and again. This has surfaced in previous presidential races, so why share it?

BURNS: Well, obviously, you know, I think in reference to that particular post, of course, I didn't have the correct information knowing that it wasn't Bill Clinton and Iapologize for that, as well, for posting incorrect information.

Again, I think that's what the true message of grace is. That once you discover new information you are quickly to change your opinion and get back on the right path. And that's what I'm doing right now to the whole world, is to say listen, in my sincere heart of hearts, my job as a -- as a pastor is to draw people together, not push them away.

And once I began to discover how it was pulling people apart, it is completely contrary to the message of unity that I've been declaring around the world, speaking at Mr. Trump's rallies around this country.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: Is that we, as Americans -- we should be focusing more on the colors that unite us and not those colors that divide us --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: -- while not ignoring the issues that we do face. But we need to begin to see each other just as Americans and really, really stop focusing on the things that divide us. And that message was a divisive message. And once I discovered how divisive it was --

This is not the campaign talking. This is not someone yelling in my ear saying you need to take that down or -- this is Mark Burns all by himself who truly loves people --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BURNS: -- and I love this country. And I believe in Donald Trump for president.

CAMEROTA: And, Pastor, I mean, this is the illustration, just exactly what you're experiencing, that voters in this country are so vexed by, which is everybody says they want to mend the country, they want to deal with substance, they want to deal with issues, they want to heal people.