Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Rangel Talks Politics; Anthony Weiner Scandal; Kaepernick Sits During National Anthem. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired August 30, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's discuss all that's going on in the election with a Democratic congressman from New York who has endorsed Hillary Clinton, Charlie Rangel.

You have a head shake and a weird smile on your face when you hear about Trump trying to connect what's going on with Weiner to Clinton. Why is this a bad assault from him to say Huma gets the confidential information, she's got an unstable husband, you should have known better? Is that fair criticism?

REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Coming from Trump, fairness has nothing to do with the dialogue. As far as Weiner is concerned, since his child somehow was involved, it could be that we can now have him to realize he needs help. It takes a lot when someone that has an emotional problem to realize they have the problem. But love for his wife and the child, I think, could finally be that issue where outside interests would prove to him that he's jeopardizing his child's life.

CUOMO: All right, so let's put his life to the side. Let's focus on the campaign. The idea that Donald Trump - and you've heard this argument before, but it may be uniquely saleable in this election, African-Americans who live in the big cities in unacceptable economic and social situations, the Democrats have failed you. They have been in control, whether - at the state and local level in a lot of these states with these big cities. What do you have to lose? I'll fix the problems. Do you think it could resonate?

RANGEL: Not resonate, but I'm such an optimistic guy, I really believe that Trump is providing a service to this country. People talk about racism on the Republican and Democrat's administration, but this thing with slavery never goes away. And it goes beyond just black Americans because I don't really think that the framers of the Constitution were thinking about Mexicans and Latins and Muslims. And so every decade we really test this sacred document to see whether it can be the ideals of what was in the Constitution.

When you find a guy like Trump that doesn't play by the rules, that takes advantage of all of the people that have jumped over to be anti- Democratic, and he did it under Republican cover. The same way the Democrats had Dixiecrats (ph) and did it under Roosevelt. They didn't brag about it, but they knew they were lynching and killing people. They never said anything about it.

CUOMO: Do you think that's a fair analogy of Trump to those types of hateful people? Do you really think he's a bigot? RANGEL: I didn't say that Roosevelt was a bigot when he accepted the

Dixiecrats. I said America has been indifferent to this stigma attached to slavery. They never, even today, have ever dealt with it. We at - what I think - what Trump brings to it is that good Republicans and Americans now see that the Republican Party has been used. It has been used by bigots. It has been used by honest white folks who believe that blacks and immigrants have been responsible for them not succeeding. It's been used by a whole lot of people. And Trump now is alienating all of the people that would like to be Republicans, but now he's testing it. But, Chris, what he is doing that tests America is not playing by the rules.

CUOMO: How so? How is he not playing by the rules?

RANGEL: I was trying -

CUOMO: Because that's what he accuses Clinton of.

RANGEL: I was trying to talk to one of your staffers. There's a game - a fig game, the ultimate fighter that they -

CUOMO: Sure.

RANGEL: They put them in cages like wild animals. And they fight each other. And then you have what I love, boxing, which, of course, a lot of people believe it's -

CUOMO: The sweet science.

RANGEL: If you put in a professional boxer, like politicians are, against a guy that is used to fighting in a cage, without any respect for the truth, without any respect for the rules, it's testing the system. Whoever thought of this system never thought about someone like Trump. You - your probably are too young to remember a comedian called Professor Irwin Corey. You ask Corey anything, he'll give you the wildest answer, but he was funny. But he never, never, never answered the question. And no matter how good you think you are, you can't get Trump to give you any answer.

CUOMO: Well, we can try with all of them. It's always been a challenge.

RANGEL: But - but that's not true on any level of government, whether city council, the local school board. You ask a guy a question. You get an answer. You walk away and you agree or disagree. He challenges the truth. He challenges the system. And it's not Republican or Democrats. He's challenging our Constitution.

[08:35:16] CUOMO: Congressman Charlie Rangel, always appreciate your perspective. This election will certainly be a test of America on many levels. It's good to have you with us.

RANGEL: Good to be with you, Chris.

CUOMO: Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Chris.

Are Anthony Weiner's issues with texting explicit photos to women an addiction? Dr. Drew Pinsky gives us the answer, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Disgraced former Congressman Anthony Weiner embroiled in another sexting scandal. His wife, top Clinton aide Huma Abedin, announcing that they are separating after "The New York Post" published racy photos Weiner sent another woman while his son slept in the bed next to him. Is this a sexual addiction or something else? Joining us now is Dr. Drew. Pinsky. He's the host of HLN's "Dr. Drew." He is an addiction specialist. We should note that Dr. Drew has not treated Anthony Weiner.

Dr. Drew, thanks so much for being here.

How do you categorize this seeming compulsion that we see with Anthony Weiner?

[08:40:06] DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, HLN'S "DR. DREW": Right. I guess the best way to approach this is to decide what an addition is. An addiction is a progressive behavior or relationship with a substance that affects work or school, relationships, finance, health or legal status. Certainly he's got relationship, work, legal problems as a result of a behavior that progresses and persists in spite of a desire to stop. That is - whether you conceive of it as a disease or a syndrome, it's a behavior that has consequences that cannot stop.

CAMEROTA: But the reason -

PINSKY: Now, when somebody's in that condition - go ahead.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, Dr. Drew, the reason that this, I think, gets complicated and confuses people is because your phone is not a substance. How can he be physically addicted to this behavior?

PINSKY: Right. Right. It activates the same part of the nervous system that's associated with the addictive process. It's called the medial forebrain bundle. The biology's all worked out. But it's more complicated, you're right, because often times behind this are much more significant emotional issues like trauma. And, in fact, for somebody to get well, for these behaviors to stop, they need to have various kinds of therapeutic interventions, including CBT, trauma therapies, 12 step. I mean at least in Anthony Weiner's case, if he ever decides to get involved with 12-step, people will be welcoming him. But the - and he may have been doing it, by the way, Alisyn. We don't know what has been going on here. This - it's not ever a direct road to complete abstinence.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PINSKY: People slip and slide a little bit with this stuff and this may be just a backslide in his case. And it's a tragedy. Think about the pain this family's going to be in. We have Huma and her - the consequences for her, this child. When his defenses drop, it's going to be shattering. It is really a sad story.

CAMEROTA: This is a sad story. And it's also fascinating because it's so self-destructive. And you get to watch the self-destruction play out in real time. I mean it runs his family. It ruins his career. And yet he can't stop. He was interviewed about this, Dr. Drew, and he vowed that this would be behind him. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY WEINER (D), FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Maybe it would be maybe an easier answer to say, well, I've got some addiction or I was, you know, abused as a child or something else. It's none of those things. It was simply a blind spot.

BRIAN LEHRER, "THE BRIAN LEHRER SHOW": And you're how confident that it won't happen again?

WEINER: It is behind me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, that was in 2013. He called it a blind spot. He dismissed the idea that it was an addiction.

PINSKY: Right.

CAMEROTA: What do you hear there?

PINSKY: I hear denial. And these kinds of behaviors fall into two broad categories. One is sort of the grandiose narcissist that feels entitled to all this and he seems to sort of fit in that - in that category, versus the shame based compulsions that feel worse and worse and don't like what they're doing. And the more they do it, the worse they feel, the more they do it.

In his case, all that defensiveness needs to come down. And when it does, he's going to see what the consequence has been and he will be needing to do whatever is required to get better and hold these behaviors in check. It's not something you can do alone.

And, again, I want to emphasize, he should have our compassion. We shouldn't be sitting in judgment of this guy. This is a story of a family, a young child, that potentially is going to be investigated by child services.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PINSKY: A - potentially a divorce, a career that's affected, all because of behavior that we all look at and can't understand how it could possibly go on. That's when you know you have somebody who is - got - let's conceive of it at least as an addiction.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

PINSKY: Something that you would like to stop and you can't. That, to me, is all I need if the consequences are mounting. CAMEROTA: Yes, look, we're talking about it because it's fascinating and because we do know people, obviously in everyone's life that have addictions. And this sure does seem like it. Also in that the behavior seems to be escalating.

PINSKY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: So his wife is now operating at this sort of upper echelon of the country and this time his child was in one of the photos. What do you see with that kind of escalation?

PINSKY: Well, it, again, if you were going to conceptualize this as addiction, addiction is a progressive process. And even Representative Rangel said a few minutes ago, eventually you get to the point where it gets through to. You have enough consequences that the - the defensive walls come crumbling down and people become willing. They sort of run the white flag up and are willing to make a change. Unfortunately, the carnage that they create sometimes can never be repaired. And, again, it is deeply saddening to watch this happen in real time.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Drew, always great to talk to you about all of this. Thanks so much for being on NEW DAY.

PINSKY: Thanks, Alisyn. You bet.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: Colin Kaepernick made a decision to sit for the national anthem and he's created a lot of controversy for himself, his team, the organization. Was this the right way to make a point? We have D.L. Hughley with us to go through some big topics surrounding the campaign, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:48:22] CUOMO: All right, you know what happened. Colin Kaepernick, the quarterback for the 49ers, stayed on the bench when the national anthem was playing and he did it on purpose and he said he's going to continue to do it. Why? Because he says he has problems with how this country is treating people of color.

Radio talk show host and bestselling author D.L. Hughley joins us now to weigh in on this and other issues affecting this election. Thank you for being with us.

D.L. HUGHLEY, COMEDIAN, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Chris. How you doing?

CUOMO: Better than I deserve.

So here's the debate. Nobody is saying that Kaepernick does not have the right to make this statement. It's whether or not he did it in the right way.

HUGHLEY: Sure. Well, I think - I think it's ironic because Kaepernick is being silent to protest the treatment of people of color in this country and America is being silent while people are being - of color are being mistreated. So there's nothing more American than silence. And I think ultimately the question has never been how black people feel about America. It has and always will be about how America feels about us. Just like the things that we see that are insulting. Like you'll see people come out and say - they'll say that they are opposed to what Kaepernick is doing. None of those people come out and say anything when people are being brutalized. Not one thing. And I think that ultimately football is an escape and black people oftentimes don't get an escape from reality. Reality confronts us all the time. There's no Sunday off where we get to pretend like things aren't the same. Standing for the pledge of allegiance or the national anthem is a distraction. We get to pretend like we're all together and oftentimes we live in two different Americas.

[08:50:04] CUOMO: But the question still remains about how do you address that? He's being compared to Jim Brown within his own sport, to Muhammed Ali. Is that a fair comparison? These are men who took their position and status but they made private citizen statements. Jim Brown held a press conference early on that he organized. Muhammad Ali changed his name, you know, surrendered himself to his fate.

HUGHLEY: I don't - I don't think that's true. I think Muhammad Ali was - I think that Muhammad Ali was a vociferous opponent. I think he was very loud. And I think that people - it's ironic that people - and I think -

CUOMO: But he didn't do it during a fight is what I'm saying.

HUGHLEY: To me -

CUOMO: D.L., he didn't do it during a fight. Jim Brown didn't do it during a game and bring in his whole team. Ali didn't, you know, bring it in on his opponent and the organizers of the fight. He did it as a private citizen.

HUGHLEY: He is a private citizen. And I think that what he's doing is brave and I think that what he's doing is necessary. I think that he's a mirror. I think that people are seeing things they don't like. They want him to shut up and play. His contract, he's paid for his athleticism, he's paid for his ability to throw the ball, he's not paid for his silence. He can say what he wants to say and I think that what he's saying is resonating. People don't like what he's saying because they know it's inherently true.

CUOMO: So -

HUGHLEY: Colin Kaepernick is saying what a lot of people can't.

CUOMO: So let's talk about what he's talking about, the substance.

HUGHLEY: Sure.

CUOMO: We look at Chicago.

HUGHLEY: Sure. CUOMO: We see Dwyane Wade's cousin Nykea Aldridge killed while walking

her baby in a stroller -

HUGHLEY: Sure.

CUOMO: About as stark a picture of the wrongness of the violence as you can have. In the election it is also coming into play.

HUGHLEY: Sure.

CUOMO: Donald Trump is looking at a situation like Chicago and saying, the Democrats have failed you. Chicago has been run by Democrats forever. Let me fix the problems

HUGHLEY: It -

CUOMO: What do you have to lose?

HUGHLEY: That is the - that is the silliest comparison. I'll explain Chicago to Donald Trump when he explains the entire southern region of the United States of America to me. The entire southern region of the United States of America is red and poor and uneducated.

About Dwyane Wade, the thing that is ironic is that they shot Dwyane Wade's cousin. People made it a political statement. Two days later, those men were arrested. And those men will probably be adjudicated and go to jail. That's all black people want. We are saying - and the problems in Chicago are a microcosm of what's happening. The problems in Chicago aren't just violence. They're unemployment. They're uneducation. They're lack of hope. If somebody puts a gun down and they don't pick up an application, you're still going to have what you have. They want what they - in Chicago, they want exactly - essentially the same thing they want from Kaepernick, shut up. The problems in Chicago aren't just black on black crime, which is a misnomer to me. They are poverty. Look at the - the unemployment rate in Chicago is high and so are the murder rates. The biggest indicator of crime is poverty. Everybody knows it and they pretend like that don't. Donald Trump is not - has not said one thing about what he'll do to fix it. Just (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: Well, he does. He says, I'm going to bring jobs.

HUGHLEY: He said, (INAUDIBLE).

CUOMO: I'm going to give you jobs. I'm going to give you school choice.

HUGHLEY: How? How?

CUOMO: And I'm going to have more cops there.

HUGHLEY: How? How? How? How? By going bankrupt four times? By saying something?

Listen, people say all kinds of things. It is what you do. It is what you do. It's insulting. We live in duality (ph). I - I will be - you know, people are saying - a lot of athletes have come out in opposition to what Kaepernick did. Not one of them ever comes out and - not many of them say anything. When would a white NFL player say something about police brutality? Ever? We've stood with veterans. When will they say something about police brutality? They won't. These things exist because America is silent, much like Kaepernick's protest. His protest is to protest violence. Theirs is in agreement of it.

CUOMO: The debates are coming up. What do you expect from them? I have been suggesting - I think this first debate is going to be the moment of the election. That first time they'll talk to each other instead of about each other. That first impression may wind up making the decision. What do you think?

HUGHLEY: Well, I think, ultimately, we - I agree with you. I think that people will get a chance to see what the - I think that there are really not that many choices. I think that Hillary Clinton, for whatever people say about her, she's a liar, but you ascribe that to politicians. She's - she's untrustworthy, but I think politicians don't have, you know, a - they're not held in high esteem anyway. I think Donald Trump is - Donald Trump being president is like Flavor Flav winning a spelling bee. I don't find him particularly bright. I don't - I don't find his ideas - his whole premise is, I'll do something I've never done before. And I'll do it well. So I don't understand how America's making - this is a - this is silly to me, but ultimately this is the choice that we have to make and a lot will be decided. I think that the more people see Donald Trump, the more that people get to see him away from all the sycophants that think he's great. They see that he - that he's an empty suit and there's not much to him.

CUOMO: D.L., I'm in shock right now. Did you just go south on Flavor Flav? You just went back on Flavor Flav. I don't think I've ever heard anybody do that before. I want you to think about what you've said today about Flavor Flav.

[08:55:14] HUGHLEY: OK. OK.

CUOMO: I've got to end it there.

HUGHLEY: I think Flavor Flav should be insulted.

OK, man, thank you.

CUOMO: D.L. Hughley, appreciate the perspective, as always.

He went bad on Flavor Flav. That's what he just did.

I'm going to have to bring you "The Good Stuff" just to bring it back to neutral, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Ah, "The Good Stuff." Today it comes from Rockingham, Virginia. A middle school was lent a Quadriciser. Do you know what that is? It helps people with physical disabilities to become more mobile. So they get lent this one. Now, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. THOMAS MORAN: All those little things that we take for granted, people can now go, wow, they have abilities, not just disabilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And, guess what, Dr. Thomas Moran led the school's effort to get the loaner machine. But two eighth graders, they wanted to do more. They wanted to keep the machine. So they took action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was just one of the best moments of my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean I hope they can show improvement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: They went around, their friends, their school, their community, raised 20 grand and bought a permanent Quadriciser so the people with physical challenges in their school can get more mobile.

[09:00:09] CAMEROTA: Fantastic. Good for those boys.

Time now for "NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello.

Hey, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey