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New Day

Trump Refuses to Say Obama Was Born in U.S.; Trump Lays Out Economic Plan. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 16, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he have a weapon?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

[07:00:08] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, so we'll explain that later in the program. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

Up first, reigniting an old controversy by refusing to say that President Obama was born in the United States. Trump's campaign says he now believes President Obama was born in the United States, but Trump won't say it.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Hillary Clinton condemning Trump, accusing him of bigotry. Her campaign saying Trump needs to say it himself, on camera, owning the situation, admitting he was wrong. Is Donald Trump a birther or not? Simple question seems to be very difficult to answer.

The timing could not be more important: 53 days until the election. Early voting just a week from now. Ten days until the moment of this race, the first debate. We have it all covered for you.

Let's begin with senior political correspondent Brianna Keilar live in Washington -- Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Chris, good morning. What we're hearing, and you mentioned this from the Trump campaign, it's really nothing new. Because just last week Donald Trump's campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, asserted that Trump believes President Obama was born in America, but despite being questioned about it numerous times the candidate, himself, has yet to go on the record about that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR (voice-over): In a statement, Donald Trump's campaign saying he now believes President Obama was born in the United States after encouraging false rumors for years.

TRUMP: Why doesn't he show his birth certificate? And you know what? I wish he would. Because I think it's terrible pale that's hanging over him. KEILAR: Now "The Washington Post" publishing a new interview with

Trump where he, yet again, refuses to denounce the conspiracy theory in a new interview with "The Washington Post," saying, quote, "I'll answer that question at the right time. I just don't want to answer it yet," adding, "I don't talk about it anymore. The reason I don't is because then everyone is going to be talking about it, as opposed to jobs, the military, the vets, security."

Hours after the story published, Trump's campaign releasing this statement, falsely blaming Hillary Clinton for starting the birther speculation and crediting Trump with forcing the president to release proof of where he was born.

"Mr. Trump did a great service to the president and the country by bringing closure to the issue that Hillary Clinton and her team first raised. Inarguably, Donald J. Trump is a closer. Having successfully obtained President Obama's birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States."

Hillary Clinton denouncing Trump.

CLINTON: He was asked, "One more time, where was President Obama born?" And he still wouldn't say Hawaii. He still wouldn't say America. This man wants to be our next president. When will he stop this ugliness, this bigotry?

We need to stand up and repudiate this divisive rhetoric.

KEILAR: Trump's birther firestorm once again overshadowing policy. The Republican nominee laying out an ambitious economic plan on Thursday that promises to create 25 million jobs and increase economic growth by 4 percent annually.

CLINTON: Hello.

KEILAR: Meantime, Clinton back on the trail after days battling pneumonia, hitting Trump over releasing a doctor's note about his health on a talk show.

CLINTON: I'll never be the showman my opponent is, and that's OK with me.

KEILAR: Trump gaining momentum in the polls during her absence this week. Clinton only has a two-point advantage over Trump in CNN's poll of polls, which is an average of the last five national polls, while Trump is opening up a lead in several key swing states, but Clinton says the race isn't over yet.

CLINTON: I've been called a lot of things. I've never been called a quitter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: This birther conversation erupting back into the spotlight as Donald Trump makes a play for African-American voters or many observers leave a play for black voters uncomfortable with how he has not really reached out much until recently to black voters. This is a key Democratic voting bloc, Alisyn, and Hillary Clinton has been very quick to seize on Trump's missteps with this constituency.

We should add birtherism seen as cringe by Republican standers as well as Democratic standers; and many black voters feel that it is an attempt to delegitimize the first African-American presidency.

CAMEROTA: OK, Brianna, thank you so much for all of that background.

We want to discuss the birther controversy, as well as Donald Trump's new economic plan. We want to bring in senior Trump economic adviser, David Malpass. He's the president of Encima (ph) Global and former chief economist for Bear Stearns; and David Stockman. He is former director of the Office of Management and Budget under President Reagan; also the author of "Trumped" and "Nation on the Brink of Ruin and How to Bring it Back."

Gentlemen, great to have both of you here. David, you are an adviser on Trump's campaign. What's going on inside the Trump campaign in terms of the birther stuff and why Trump won't publicly disavow it?

[07:05:09] DAVID MALPASS, SENIOR TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISOR: You know, the big message is that we're going to have an economy that will grow a lot. As far as birther, it was originally raised by Hillary Clinton. It was put to rest.

CAMEROTA: That's not true. It has been debunked. Some of her supporters -- I want to correct you, David. Some of her supporters who were never linked to her. We've all talked in this election. The camp can't necessarily be held responsible for all of the repugnant things your supporters do. She disavowed it. So why is Donald Trump sticking by it?

MALPASS: There's really nothing going on on that. The whole energy, and there's energy there every day -- I'm there every day -- is to get the economy going. It's been dead stopped. So that's what the issue is. I don't know why it keeps coming up. People are trying maybe diverting -- diverting the front-page...

CAMEROTA: But he won't disavow it. Because he won't disavow it.

MALPASS: The front page of today's "New York Times" has Trump as a change agent. It's showing the American people that one of the candidates wants a really new economy; and the other wants to keep the economy as it is. And so that's a very favorable turf for Trump and his polls are going up to reflect it.

CAMEROTA: David, how do you see this?

DAVID STOCKMAN, AUTHOR, "TRUMPED": Well, this is what's wrong with politics and why the country, particularly, fly over America is turning against the establishment and the media.

As far as I can tell, Obama was born, elected, served eight years and is leaving office and what's left behind is a huge economic mess. The American people want to know how you're going to fix that. They don't care about this issue.

CAMEROTA: You don't think that the American people care about whether or not they have a conspiracy theorist in the White House?

STOCKMAN: Well, he's not a conspiracy theorist. That is a view of the media. I'm sorry. You can look at...

CAMEROTA: How do you look at the fact that he doesn't disavow birthers?

STOCKMAN: Well, he ought to disavow it. It's a stupid idea.

CAMEROTA: Why doesn't he?

STOCKMAN: How do I know? I'm here to try to talk about his economic program, which is far more important.

CAMEROTA: Is it?

STOCKMAN: Oh, my God. There are millions of people in America today who don't have a job or who've had a huge wage cut because of what's gone wrong with our economy. There are tens of millions of savers who are getting nothing on their savings because of the Fed's zero interest rates.

We're not investing. We're not growing. We're failing. We've got a 20 trillion national debt. We have the Fed out of control. These things weigh so much more.

CAMEROTA: Of course. Listen, we all agree that when you ask voters they never say that birtherism is at the top of their priority, of course, being unemployed is much more important to them. However, can you dismiss it lightly, the idea that this was a grand conspiracy that someone in the White House may still hold?

MALPASS: Right. I think we're going to use up all of our time on the interview here. We've got 25 million jobs that can be created over these next ten years. That's what everyone should be talking about, including on this show. How do you do it? How do you get the economy going and change it out of the rut? We're in a malaise. It's almost like the Carter malaise that David Stockman had to deal with in 1991.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about that.

MALPASS: And it was successful. Growth went to 8 percent after there were economic changes.

CAMEROTA: Twenty-five million jobs is what the Trump economic team is promising. What do you think of that number?

STOCKMAN: Well, I think the speech yesterday was brilliant. The delivery was powerful. It was the most soaring rhetoric I've heard from a Republican about economic rejuvenation and capitalism since Jack Kemp. So that was great.

CAMEROTA: Yes. STOCKMAN: But the substance was a dog's breakfast of good ideas and terrible fiscal math. So I agree: $4.6 trillion in tax cuts over ten years. Do it. This economy needs it.

But the $2.6 trillion of reflow, of dynamic, you know, forecasting, that...

CAMEROTA: You don't think that that's possible?

STOCKMAN: ... illusion because it's already built in to see the rosy scenario forecast.

The lesson I learned in 1980 is the reflow is already there. You can't count it twice. So if you want to cut taxes, like he has stood for and I agree with, then you've got to tell the public the truth. Entitlements are going to be cut. We've got the means test Social Security. He is out of his mind thinking he could raise defense. We don't need to raise defense. We spend more than the next ten countries together. You need to cut defense; you need to cut entitlements.

CAMEROTA: OK.

STOCKMAN: The idea that one penny out of the discretionary spending is going to make any difference is silly, because it amounts to 13 hours of spending at the federal level.

CAMEROTA: Let's get his economic adviser to weigh in on how he is going to do all that. So you hear the critics and the concerns. How is he going to do it?

MALPASS: If you cut the corporate tax rate to 15 percent, you're going to get a huge amount of investment in the United States. You're going to get reflows from abroad. You're going to create millions and millions of jobs. And, so, certainly, that is going to top the CBO estimate.

CAMEROTA: Stop right there for one second.

MALPASS: It used to be rosy scenarios in CBO, but now they're only looking for 2 percent per year for the next ten years. Meaning Trump, Trump, it will do much better than the current forecast.

[07:10:13] CAMEROTA: Let's go point for point. Cut corporate tax rate. It brings back this inflow of business.

STOCKMAN: Well, the inflow is a temporary thing. I would get rid of the corporate tax entirely, but I would fund it with a new tax on imports and consumption. That's the first point.

MALPASS: But get a lot more investment by existing companies.

STOCKMAN: It would be better than what we're doing now. But my point is that the CBO forecast way over-projects nominal GDP or wage and salary income. Eleven trillion of too much over the next decade. Five trillion of too much wage and salary in the baseline. Two trillion of revenue that isn't there.

CAMEROTA: OK.

STOCKMAN: Now, the reason I'm saying all this is important is that the reflow that the Trump campaign is talking about is the $2 trillion that's overestimated.

CAMEROTA: So what do you want to see Trump do? How can he fix what you think the problems are in.

STOCKMAN: I think what he ought to do is propose to eliminate the corporate tax entirely. In a mobile world, you cannot collect corporate taxes. Capital is mobile, work is mobile, technology is mobile. It goes everywhere. So get rid of it. It's a waste of time. It doesn't generate any revenue.

Second, we need to cut the payroll tax, because we are killing workers and labor in this country with a trillion a year of payroll tax and replace it with a tax on imports and consumption.

CAMEROTA: OK. So how about those details?

MALPASS: Mr. Trump laid out a transparent, very strong economic program yesterday that will create 25 million jobs, 3.5 percent average growth and maybe 4 percent. Reagan had 8 percent. The biggest change of the economy and the biggest positive transformation since Ronald Reagan.

CAMEROTA: But hearing somebody in Ronald Reagan's administration say that he doesn't think the Trump plan gets there.

MALPASS: David's a bit of a permit (ph) there, meaning he's saying we're heading off the cliff if we keep doing what Obama and Hillary Clinton want to do. And, so, he's saying Trump's not doing enough to fix this. I'm saying, Trump is going to make it much better than what Hillary Clinton's program would do.

STOCKMAN: Here's the skunk in the wood pile. The CBO assumes 208 months without a recession. Double anything in history. Not going to happen. The next president is going to have a recession. When you build that in -- that's the same thing we had with Reagan -- you are not going to have the kind of average growth over time, David, that you're talking about.

CAMEROTA: You're saying it's not realistic.

MALPASS: So on day one Trump as president can start making the economy better; and that's what's getting missed with this. So, everyone wants to fix everything. I think Trump has laid out a program that will work. There's middle class and lower income tax cuts.

So, everyone will have a share, and that means more jobs coming out of small business. One of the critical things is to get small businesses starting to get financed and growing.

CAMEROTA: Sure. Are you satisfied with that, or are you still a skeptic?

STOCKMAN: I'm a skeptic on the fiscal math. We have to have a mandate if Trump is elected. And I hope he is. He has to have a mandate to do big, tough cuts, to tell the people the truth.

We're living beyond our means. Social Security can't be exempted. What is he thinking? That's a trillion a year that you can't exempt. Defense -- to the increase defense is misleading the public. We do not need one dime of more defense spending. I said the Pentagon is a swamp of waste in 1991. I got in trouble for it. It's a bigger swamp of waste today. You cut the defense budget.

MALPASS: We want to make the nation secure and protect Social Security and have a lot more growth.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for laying out some of the details and trying to parse through them. David Stockman, David Malpass, thank you very much. Great to have you both here.

Coming up in minutes, we will have House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. She will join us. And in our next hour, we'll have Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders. What do they think about all the news of the day -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right. So what does Donald Trump believe? Pretty simple question. His campaign says he believes the president was born in the U.S. He then puts out a statement saying don't believe what anyone says except me about this. Now his son is weighing in. Why he says this controversy is about to end. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:18:15] CAMEROTA: Breaking news for you right now. CNN has learned that Donald Trump may address the birther controversy today.

Let's get right to chief political correspondent Dana Bash. She's live in Washington with all the breaking details. What have you learned, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the key question that we've been talking about all morning is it's one thing for the Trump campaign on his letterhead, but with his spokesman officially giving the statement out, saying that Barack Obama was born in the U.S., that that is one thing. The question is will we hear it from the candidate's lips?

The answer is, I am told, that that is likely to happen today. Donald Trump has public events early. Actually, he'll be here in D.C. He also has other forums that we know of, like Twitter. So we're going to be watching all of that to see when and if this does happen, because as much as we are getting pushback, kind of the official pushback from the campaign, which is come on, Jason Miller and the people who work for Trump speak for him.

The reality is that they know and we all know that, if the birther issue is kind of one that is separate from everything else. Because it predates everybody who works for it. Pretty much everybody who works for him now. And it is the issue that defined Donald Trump as a private citizen that gave him the inroads into some in the Republican base that allowed him to have a footing that led to him getting the Republican nomination.

So they understand that this is different. This is very much Donald Trump, and we do have to hear it from him. The reason I'm cautious is because it is Donald Trump, and we never know exactly how it's going to end up at the end of the day, especially with something like this. But I'm told that we should look for something from him.

And his advisors are pushing him to do this.

CUOMO: All right, Dana. Thank you very much.

[07:20:04] Let's discuss this further. We have Boris Epstein. He's a senior advisor to the Trump campaign. Then we've got Paul Begala, a CNN political commentator, Democratic strategist and senior advisor for the pro-Clinton -- for a pro-Clinton super PAC.

So we have what's going on and then why it matters. You're going to come in on the second part. Let's just nail down what's happening here. This reporting that he has literally his team around him saying, "Trump, you have to own this, say that the president was born in this country, move past it."

He's saying, "I don't want to do it." That his daughter is saying to him, "Dad, you've got to own this if you want me to campaign for you. No, I'm telling you what we know." And that he is saying, "No," kicking them out of the office saying, "I don't want to do this." Is that accurate?

BORIS EPSTEIN, SENIOR ADVISOR, TRUMP CAMPAIGN: That's a whole lot of editorializing right there.

CUOMO: NO. That's reporting. That's what I've been told. There is zero editorial.

EPSTEIN: He's kicking people out of his office, come on. There's no sources there. You didn't name a source.

CUOMO: No, no, no. No named sources. Doesn't mean we have -- hold on. I want to do this the right way. If you want to question my reporting, you go right ahead. You get people who are in that room to tell me it never happened. Happy to put him on. You tell me what the state of play is.

EPSTEIN: Having been in the room last night and being here and going to headquarters right from here. This issue is absolutely done. It's over. The statement came out yesterday. Mr. Trump had clearly stated that Hillary Clinton's camp was the one that started it. She couldn't finish. He got an answer for the American people. He believes, the campaign believes that Barack Obama was born here.

If you don't believe that he was, that's up to you. The media does it, and he can keep the story going. We're here to talk about jobs, national security.

CUOMO: Donald Trump can never let the campaign speak for him on anything before. He always says it himself.

EPSTEIN: Are you telling me that when Nick Merrill was speaking for Secretary Clinton, he wasn't speaking for her?

CUOMO: Not today, my friend. He speaks -- he speaks for himself. He owns every position. He does it himself. Not on this. Why?

EPSTEIN: You're telling me that the Donald J. Trump for president campaign doesn't speak for the candidate? Of course it does.

CUOMO: What did he mean what he said about Kellyanne Conway. She says what she wants to say. If you don't hear it out of my mouth, it was before the statement. Have you heard from him?

EPSTEIN: The statement came out last night, and it was on behalf of Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Have we heard from him about this?

EPSTEIN: The campaign.

CUOMO: He was asked on a plane, and he said, "I'll answer it at the right time."

EPSTEIN: And you got the answer last night. That's the answer.

CUOMO: So what happens when he's asked about it?

EPSTEIN: Mr. Trump is a closer. He closed this issue. It's done. Let's move on and talk about things that matter to America.

CUOMO: He closes it without ever saying a word about it. If Hillary Clinton did that, because I know you like to say my campaign answered this about the server, we answered it, I'm not going to take the question. What would you say?

EPSTEIN: First of all, she doesn't take questions about the server. Second of all, she does go back on her campaign. And to what I said earlier, if you'd let me finish, the campaign answered for her on 9/11 about overheating and answered for her as to...

CUOMO: She did interviews about it. She came out and addressed them directly.

EPSTEIN: Did you question her and say, "Hey, was your campaign speaking for you?"

CUOMO: No, because she said it herself.

EPSTEIN: Errol (ph) said it.

CUOMO: She came on. She did her interview with "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Be a foe of the facts. Remember that, when we were in law school?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm not.

CUOMO: She came out and talked about it. He won't answer this question. It's weird at a minimum. Hold on, hold on.

EPSTEIN: Are you editorializing again?

CUOMO: Weird at a minimum because he has never not addressed a question directly himself before.

EPSTEIN: It was addressed by...

CUOMO: Give me one example. Give me one example when he's done this before.

EPSTEIN: It was addressed last night.

CUOMO: One example.

EPSTEIN: What does that matter to the American people? This was addressed last night.

CUOMO: Now, is it about the American people, or is it...

EPSTEIN: That's who's voting. The American people. That's who's -- that's somebody who earns $20,000 a year somewhere in Ohio and Michigan and Pennsylvania

CUOMO: He's never not done this before. Now, let's talk about...

EPSTEIN: How many voters do you think care about this?

CUOMO: Let's see. Tell me now about why this matters. Beyond the facts as they are.

BEGALA: He's done an enormous amount of damage. Forty-seven percent of Republicans believe the president was not born in the United States. That's damaging our democracy. It's delegitimizing our first African-American president, say he was born in Africa, not in America. Millions of Americans think it's racist. I happen to be one of them. And this matters enormously, because it's a crackpot theory. It's not just like, OK, you want taxes up or down. We have legitimate debates...

CUOMO: Is the campaign saying he believes enough?

BEGALA: Of course not.

CUOMO: Why not?

BEGALA: First off, he needs to say it himself, as you point out. Donald Trump is sui generis, OK? He speaks for himself. He has to say it himself, and he has to apologize for the damage he's done to his country, his party, to our president. By the way, while he thought he should denounce the crackpot theory he was pushing that Ted Cruz's father was connected to the Kennedy assassination. Donald Trump is an aficionado of the most crackpot flat earth theories. So we're sitting here 53 days before election.

CUOMO: Hold on. I was going to do you one better on that. Does Hillary Clinton own some of the blame for starting the birther?

BEGALA: Zero. None. This is -- you don't have to believe me. "The Washington Post" took the statement that the campaign put out, this morning. Phil Bump, good reporter, and basically says every single sentence in it is a lie. I commend the piece of journalism.

EPSTEIN: He did not put that memo out?

[07:25:12] BEGALA: No, he did not. A private memo to his client, which was garbage. It was crap. Excuse my language.

CUOMO: Give us the distinction -- give us the distinction, though. Penn is working for the campaign and put out a memo. He put it out. He didn't give it to CNN. He gave it to his client who rejected...

EPSTEIN: Didn't get leaked by...

CUOMO: So he gives the memo to his client, who's Hillary Clinton.

BEGALA: Right.

CUOMO: And what does it say and what do you think it means?

BEGALA: It says, "Oh, we should push that you're more American than him."

EPSTEIN: That's incorrect, Paul.

CUOMO: No, I have the memo. I'm asking the questions, but the memo does not say anything about birtherism.

EPSTEIN: Lack of American roots. Lack of American roots.

BEGALA: And she rejected that advice. The man is not working for her at this time. This is garbage. Everybody who has looked at this, every fact checker, not just me. Again, look at the...

CUOMO: Real Politics, Politifact, CNN, we've all vetted it. There is no connection to her campaign. So she denied the birther movement as soon as she was asked about it.

EPSTEIN: Mark Penn, the chief strategist in the '08 campaign and the Hillary Clinton campaign in '08.

BEGALA: Of course.

No, no, no. I'm saying there's no connection from what Mark Penn wrote in that memo.

EPSTEIN: Can we bring this back?

CUOMO: Anything the campaign did to advance the birther movement.

EPSTEIN: Well, first of all, people who worked for the campaign did. In Iowa.

CUOMO: No. No. People who were supporters -- not staffers of the campaign. People who said they were supportive of Hillary Clinton.

EPSTEIN: We are having the same discussion that we had two weeks ago. Something happened. Last night, there was a direct statement from the Donald Trump, the Trump/Pence campaign that said that Donald Trump believes, literally said Donald Trump believes that Barack Obama was born in the United States.

Do you think that Donald Trump, the boss of the campaign would allow the campaign to put out a statement that he doesn't agree with? Of course not, but I know you want him to say a lot of words.

BEGALA: I'm sorry, I was wrong.

CUOMO: Forget about sorry and forget about apology. Let's take it one step at a time. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying let's deal with what's in front of us. He's never done this before. That's why I'm asking.

EPSTEIN: What do you mean he's never done this?

CUOMO: He never had someone ask him a question and he has said, "I'm not going to answer you. I refer it to the campaign."

EPSTEIN: Listen, that's what he's doing on this issue right now.

CUOMO: So what happens when he's asked about his statement.

EPSTEIN: Since the statement, since the statement, he has not been asked the question. The statement came out, what, 11 p.m. last night.

CUOMO: Are you advising him to say that this birther stuff is bunk?

EPSTEIN: Listen, that's his decision.

CUOMO: You're a senior adviser. What do you think he should do?

EPSTEIN: That's his decision.

CUOMO: What do you think he should do?

EPSTEIN: He should do what he thinks is best for himself and the country. Now, listen, we're at 19 percent with African-Americans.

CUOMO: You think this is going to help you?

EPSTEIN: What's not going to help me is the media ended up driving this wedge issue and dividing Americans. We're uniting Americans.

CUOMO: I'm dividing America?

EPSTEIN: Yes, you are.

CUOMO: By your candidate refusing to answer an issue which is central to whether or not he believes the president is legitimate.

EPSTEIN: It was answered last night.

CUOMO: And he will refuse to answer it himself, and you don't think that's odd.

EPSTEIN: Now you guys are just guessing.

CUOMO: You told me. He's not going to say anything about it.

EPSTEIN: That's up to him. He's not going to say what he decides to do.

BEGALA: He'll continue to dodge and lie because he...

EPSTEIN: That's what Mark Preston said last night, too. The campaign is not going to say anything about it, and then about 20 minutes later there was a statement. Let's be honest with each other. This was put to bed last night. The media needs an issue to drive on against us today. And that's what's happening.

CUOMO: How is it driving against? I think this helps him. I think if Donald Trump, if you want me to editorialize.

EPSTEIN: I don't want you to editorialize.

CUOMO: But I mean, if you're going to throw it around falsely, let's use it genuinely. If I come -- if he comes out and says, "Look, the birther thing is behind us."

EPSTEIN: He did say that.

CUOMO: "It's not real. It was wrong. I asked the question, he brought up the birth certificate. I believe it. He was born here. It's over."

EPSTEIN: That's the statement from last night, Chris.

CUOMO: But from him.

EPSTEIN: This is the statement...

CUOMO: Who am I going to hear from when you're president of the United States? Am I going to hear from you all the time, or am I going to heard from the president of the United States?

EPSTEIN: Whoever the press secretary is. Does Barack Obama speak on every issue?

CUOMO: Look, with Hillary Clinton. She had to own the server thing: it was wrong. We heard from all the people around her that it was wrong. She shouldn't have done it. It was poorly thought out. It wasn't enough. Why? EPSTEIN: How long after it came out.

CUOMO: This has been going on for years, Boris. This is since 2011.

EPSTEIN: And Hillary -- Hillary Clinton. There's no equivalency. Hillary Clinton did something illegal. She broke the law.

CUOMO: She did not do anything illegal.

EPSTEIN: Yes, she did.

CUOMO: So James Comey is a liar, too?

EPSTEIN: He said she shouldn't be prosecuted. He did say she acted carelessly. You as a lawyer, if you look at all the particulars of bringing that case, there was a case to bring, he said so, too.

CUOMO: No, he didn't. He said there is no case to be brought. There's nothing prosecutable about it. He just said it in his report.

EPSTEIN: But a prosecutor...

CUOMO: He said it's not a close call.

All right. We've got to -- we've got to...

BEGALA: In the 21st century...

CUOMO: Last word and we've got to leave it.

BEGALA: In the 21st century, the party of Lincoln...

CUOMO: Was the prosecutor for the southern district of New York.

EPSTEIN: Was he acting as a prosecutor now?

BEGALA: Can I just get back to the birther thing?

CUOMO: Go ahead.

EPSTEIN: Why do you want to get back to the birther thing so bad?

BEGALA: Because in the 21st century, the party of Lincoln has a nominee who has pushed a racist attack...

EPSTEIN: Absolutely not.

BEGALA: ... on the first black president and refuses to renounce it and apologize.

EPSTEIN: Apologize that fast to Ted Cruz?

BEGALA: He has persuaded half -- he's persuaded half of his party to believe this racist claptrap. It's flat earth garbage.

EPSTEIN: This is the same as the deplorable comments. BEGALA: And he needs to renounce it and apologize.

CUOMO: Here is the tragedy of all of this.