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Bombing Suspect Charged with Attempted Murder; How was Bombing Suspect Captured?; More Details Released on Bombing Suspect Ahmad Rahami; Bar Owner Shares Story of Rahami's Capture; Interview with Sen. Angus King. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 20, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We have this covered from every angle for you. Let's begin with CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez. What's the latest, Evan?

[07:00:06] EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn and Chris, the man that the FBI believes was behind at least ten bombs at four locations in New York and New Jersey was uncooperative in the first few hours after his capture.

But investigators are beginning to put together a picture of what may have driven the 28-year-old to carry out these bombings.

A note found on one of the unexploded pressure cooker bomb on 27th Street in Manhattan contained hand-written ramblings that made references to past terrorists, including the Boston bombers. That bomb, as well as one on 23rd Street, which did explode and injured 29 people, bear similarities to the ones that were used in the Boston bombings.

Law enforcement officials say that the suspect was seen on surveillance video near both locations, hauling a duffel bag. Surveillance video along with fingerprints and records of cell phones that he bought were the key pieces of evidence that led to the arrest of the suspect.

Now, at this point, investigators believe that he was a lone bomb maker, but they are still looking into whether he received help from others.

Local prosecutors in Union County, New Jersey, filed the first charges, for attempted murder of five police officers, after a shootout that led to his arrest.

Federal prosecutors in Manhattan and New Jersey are now building their case for charges that are expected in the coming weeks. The case has already led to some in Congress to renew their argument that U.S. citizens charged in terrorism cases should be charged as enemy combatants -- Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right. That's controversial, but it's going to be part of the dialogue. Evan, thank you very much.

So the suspect was captured just four hours after police identified him and released his picture. That's incredibly quickly. So how did they get it done? Well, they had a treasure-trove of evidence, from surveillance video to fingerprints and DNA at the bombing scenes, that led investigators to his arrest.

This last break in the case, though, came from a New Jersey bar owner. CNN's Ed Lavandera joins us now from the scene of Saturday's blast in New York City -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

Well, before that bar owner called authorities in New Jersey to alert them that he believe that he had seen this suspect on the streets of New Jersey, it was clues around here in the Chelsea neighborhood of New York where investigators first started tracking down the suspect, Rahami.

We are here at the site where the explosion happened on Saturday night. But it was just four blocks north of where we're at that investigators found the undetonated devices, and that showed us and was able to pinpoint for investigators that fingerprint and identify Rahami as the suspect.

And then around 7:30 Monday morning, his first image broadcast around the area. And then, as well, that cell one alert went out shortly after. And it didn't take but a for more hours after that for those -- for the first calls of Rahami being spotted outside of that bar in New Jersey. And that's what led investigators to that shootout.

Residents there in the area captured the gunfight there in New Jersey. You can hear a little bit of how that played out yesterday morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

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LAVANDERA: Tense scene there on the streets of New Jersey yesterday morning. Incredibly intense. Two officers wounded. Did not -- did not sustain life-threatening injuries; it sounds like they will be OK.

But here, Chris, here on the streets in this Chelsea neighborhood, you know, one of the first thing [SIC] investigators did was fan out throughout the neighborhood, looking for surveillance video. And as Evan mentioned, a lot of that video is some of the key evidence used to identify him so quickly -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. Ed, we've seen some of that video. We're also going to be speaking to that bar owner in just a short time. He'll be here on NEW DAY.

Meanwhile, before the bombings in New York and New Jersey, the suspect was not on investigators' radar as someone who might be radicalized. A law enforcement official tells CNN he travelled to Afghanistan and Pakistan, including an area that is a stronghold of the Taliban.

CNN's Jessica Schneider is live in Elizabeth, New Jersey, with more of what we know about the suspect. Good morning, Jessica.

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Yes, Rahami traveled overseas multiple times between 2011 and 2014, but he was never flagged by U.S. immigration officials. Now federal officials have raided his home just behind me, and the questions remain: was Rahami radicalized?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER (voice-over): This is 28-year-old Ahmad Khan Rahami, the suspect behind a series of bombings in New York and New Jersey.

JAIME REYES, FRIENDLY WITH FAMILY OF AHMAD RAHAMI: I saw him like two weeks ago. I said hello to him. I spoke to him: "How you doing? How's your daughter? How's everything?"

He looked a little stressed out but nothing of concern.

SCHNEIDER: Born in Afghanistan, Rahami traveled back and forth from that country and neighboring Pakistan multiple times.

REYES: His father wanted him to go back there and get to know his roots.

SCHNEIDER: Most recently, he took a year-long visit to Pakistan from April 2013 to March 2014. While there, a Facebook photo shows the suspected bomber and his brother, Mohammed, relaxing in traditional clothing.

[07:05:06] In 2011, Rahami spent several weeks in Quetta, Pakistan, a Taliban stronghold. It was there he married a Pakistani woman, the U.S. approving her entry into the country in 2012, but it's unclear whether she ever made it to the U.S.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a very friendly guy. You'd never suspect this. Terrified. He's hiding in plain sight. You would have never known.

SCHNEIDER: Rahami underwent secondary screenings upon returning to the U.S. because of the area he visited but was never flagged, according to a law enforcement official.

The bombing suspect had a run-in the law before. Rahami was arrested in 2014 on weapons and aggravated assault charges, though a grand jury declined to indict him.

His family came to the country seeking asylum decades ago. Now they own a fried chicken restaurant in Elizabeth, New Jersey, and they live above it.

MAYOR CHRIS BOLLWAGE (D), ELIZABETH, NEW JERSEY: This place has been in operation for many years. We've had issues with this location regarding code enforcement issues.

SCHNEIDER: The Rahami family claimed to be the victims of discrimination and harassment in this 2011 lawsuit against the city of Elizabeth and its police department. This suit alleging that a neighbor told them Muslims don't belong here and that they were threatened and harassed by police officers.

BOLLWAGE: There was a lot of congregation going on, a lot of people hanging out. The city council was getting complaints from the neighborhood.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: And Rahami lived right here in Elizabeth, New Jersey, with his family. Their apartment up on the second floor, just above the chicken shop, the chicken restaurant that they run. Federal officials have been in and out overnight and throughout the day today. And you can still see, there is quite a police presence out here still -- Chris and Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, thanks so much for all of that reporting. Let's discuss everything we've learned with CNN terrorism analyst and editor in chief of "The CTC Sentinel," Paul Cruickshank; CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto; and CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

Paul, let's talk about they have a lot of evidence already. I mean, let's just start with the bombs. What can the bombs reveal about who this guy is and what kind of training he had?

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, we're learning that the pressure cooker bomb had aluminum powder, that it had ammonium nitrate, that it had HMTD. All of that points to a powerful device, according to one explosive expert. A device significantly, potentially, more powerful than the Boston devices just a few years ago.

The fact that there was HMTD likely as a detonating substance in this device is very significant, as well, because it's pretty tricky to make HMTD. We've seen very few cases in the west of Islamist terrorists managing to make this without getting some kind of terrorism training overseas. There have been a few exceptions but not many.

And of course, this is an individual who's traveled extensively in Afghanistan, Pakistan, in areas where terrorist groups operate. And so the question is, could he have got some kind of terrorist training, given all these different devices he managed to make?

The pipe bombs were actually pretty rudimentary. Actually, more similar to the Boston devices. Black powder used in both those cases. But the pressure cooker bomb, that was a whole different ball game, a more sophisticated, powerful device. And we're talking about, potentially, the biggest sort of explosion from an Islamist terrorist attack in the United States since the World Trade Center attack in 1993 in terms of the bomb. This could have killed a lot of people.

CUOMO: So when you look at the bomb, first, Jimmy, tell us about what's in it and what that may lead them in terms of how he got that stuff and then what their thinking is about whether -- what kind of help he might have gotten here.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's an essential conflict here. Right? Because he was successful in making what are difficult devices, but he wasn't that smart about where he placed them. Right? You place it under a metal Dumpster, which minimizes the effect in a sort of odd location. Right? It wasn't in the middle of Penn Station.

So when I speak to counterterror guys, they say that his tradecraft was not great. And that's indicative. As we said earlier, you can be a dope and still kill a lot of people, right? But this is a fundamental question about how much training he had. He may have had help building the device, but he made other mistakes elsewhere, which doesn't put him in the hierarchy, the top of the hierarchy of these guys.

CUOMO: The things that are in that bomb, can you just get them online?

SCIUTTO: The materials that are in them you can buy. It's how you combine them.

And the recipe for this is in, for instance, ISIS's magazine, "Dabiq." You can find them online. But, as you and I know, with any recipe, right, it's how you put it together to do it successfully with this. So you can find the ingredients. You can find the steps to put it together. But actually putting it together and making it work, that's not an easy thing to do.

And that's why two key lines of inquiry now: Did he meet with anybody of concern during this overseas travel? Did he communicate with anybody, either over there or here, that might have helped him along the way? They don't know the answers to those questions yet.

CAMEROTA: Let's look at his travel. We can put it up on the screen for people.

In 2011, he traveled to Kandahar, Afghanistan, his home place, basically. His birthplace, I should say. And Quetta, Pakistan, which of course, is a stronghold of the Taliban.

[07:10:14] In July of 2011, he married a Pakistani woman. Unclear on whether or not -- it looks like he was not ever able to bring her back to the U.S., though he was trying.

April of 2013, he went to Pakistan for nearly a year he stayed there. And then we do know, Evan, that he came back and went through the so- called secondary screening at airports in the U.S., where they pull you aside and say, "OK, what were you doing in Quetta," because that raises a flag. But it sounds like he was able to kind of dismiss it by saying, "I was at an uncle's. I was with family, and I went to an uncle's wedding. And I got married."

PEREZ: That's right. I mean, this secondary screening is very standard for this type of travel.

And by the way, just to update, we do know now that she did come. She was here.

CAMEROTA: OK.

PEREZ: But she is back overseas, we now know. The FBI is going to look to try to see if they can try to interview her overseas now that she's not here. She traveled, apparently, in recent days before this event. So we're going to see what that means, whether or not she knew anything.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

PEREZ: That is still to be determined.

But going back to the questioning, that's standard for people who have traveled to those regions. The best that they can do is try to figure out whether or not, you know, to pick up any signs and to use that if they find, for instance, some other reason to come back to you.

Now, this case, you know, would be reason for them to now dig into who he was meeting with back there, who he was spending time with. Were there militants in his family or, you know, that he was associated with? Those are the big questions that are still left to be answered.

SCIUTTO: Just one point about secondary screening. I've been taken aside for secondary screening because of the kinds of countries that I -- we go to. You come back from Afghanistan, you have these stamps on your passport. Hundreds of folks are going through that at any one time.

So I think for folks at home, they're like, "Well, if he had secondary screening, why didn't they catch him?" But the thing is, the questions -- it gives you some information, but it doesn't give you the answers. It's a really difficult thing to do, whether you're a customs officer at the border or a cop. You can't arrest everybody.

PEREZ: You've got to have some suspicion first.

SCIUTTO: You have to have some suspicion. You have to have something hard to pull these guys in. So it's not -- it's not as easy as it sounds.

CUOMO: So you have the -- you want to find out who he was with. They're also going to try and look at motives. You know, there's stuff that hasn't gotten reported a lot now that he and his family were going through. By no means am I suggesting this man is a victim of anything other than his own cruelty.

But, you know, could it be that, at the end of the day, he went some places, he met some people, but he was inspired, to use the word loosely, by what happened to him here, that he was upset about the lawsuits that his family were in; he was upset about how the consulate dealt with his wife and their kid when he was trying to get back, that he felt that he was being alienated, and that's why he did this.

CRUICKSHANK: Absolutely. I mean, in case after case after case on both sides of the Atlantic, you have a mix of radicalization but also a triggering event in somebody's life, something that creates a grievance against the government, perhaps something in their personal life which propels them -- a family tragedy or something -- more into religion, more into sort of extremist interpretations, and then that drives them towards launching some kind of attack.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much for sharing all of your reporting with us. Great to get your expertise.

CUOMO: All right. You feel like talking to a hero?

CAMEROTA: I do.

CUOMO: All right. Let's talk to one right now. Joining us is one of the heroes in this ordeal; Harinder Bains. He is the New Jersey bar owner who spotted the bombing suspect after watching CNN and called police.

Mr. Bains, thank you very much for helping to keep the rest of us safe.

HARINDER BAINS, BAR OWNER: Thank you. Thank you for talking to me.

CUOMO: Thank you for talking to me. So Harinder, tell us. Tell us what happened.

BAINS: As I said before, also, like around -- I saw this guy when I opened across the street. And around 9 o'clock, I went to this guy and talked to him, because he was leaning against the door, which was broken. So just went there and saw him. I talked to him and told him that, "Buddy, you're going to break the door and get hurt."

So he looked at me, and he said, "I'm sorry." And he just moved towards the left. He said, "I'm going to move to this side." And that's when I saw his face, you know. And I was, like, a little shaken because I was watching CNN on my laptop at that time in the store. The store wasn't busy yesterday, because it was raining. So I saw his photo there on the side of the screen. And I just went there. And I was in shock.

And I said, "Oh, my God, this guy looks exactly like the guy I just saw on that thing."

Then I got busy. And after 15 -- I didn't call the cops right away, actually, you know. So because I wasn't 100 percent sure about that. So then my friend, Rini (ph), came in. Then I just talked to him. I said, "Rini (ph), did you saw that guy who's sitting on my -- in front of the bar?"

He said, "Yes." So he just -- I showed him the picture again.

I said, "Look, he looks exactly like this guy."

He started joking, "You never know. He might be that guy. You could call the cops, you know?" And I just called the cops.

[07:15:05] CUOMO: Harinder, let me ask you something. What do you think he was doing, leaning up against the door? Did he seem, like, drunk? Was he trying to sleep? What did you think he was doing?

BAINS: Initially, that's what I thought, like somebody's drunk overnight and he's just lying around there. But when I went there, he didn't seem drunk. He seemed just, like, fatigue and exhausted, you know? Like, that's it. He didn't look drunk. He was, like, totally like exhausted. You know?

CUOMO: Did he ask you for help? Did he -- did he tell you anything?

BAINS: No, no. He didn't say anything. He just said, "Sorry, OK, I'll move to this side." You know? That's it. That's when he moved to the other side. And he wasn't even, like, startled, looking at me that I'm talking to him. He was, like, just exhausted. You know?

CUOMO: Was he hidden where he was or was he -- pretty much anyone could see him there?

BAINS: No, no. He was, like, a little bit in that vestibule enclosure, you know? If anybody's passing by, nobody will see him, that the guy's there, you know? I was opening my bar. That's my bar. That's why I could figure it out, that somebody is sitting right in front of my bar in the vestibule. You know?

CUOMO: You think there was any chance that he was waiting for somebody there? Or did he look like he was just trying to get some rest?

BAINS: I can't say that. I don't know. Like, he was just there, you know, lying, he was tired. It looked like he was tired. You know?

CUOMO: So what happens after you make the phone call to police?

BAINS: After I made the phone call to the police, the police came in three, four minutes. When the first cop came, and when he was waiting for, I think, for the next back-up cop to come. Then when the next cop came in, he confronted the suspect.

And within 15, 20 seconds, like everything break loose. You know, like the guy put his hand on the gun, and right away he shot through the glass panel. There are two bullet holes there. I was standing across the street, on the door of my store. And I watched everything unfolding right in front of me, you know.

CUOMO: What was it like watching that shootout there between the police and the suspect?

BAINS: I was -- I was shaken. I was, like, totally -- like I don't know what's going on. You know? But I realized right away that, OK, this is the guy. That's why it's going on like this.

And then the guy started running towards the street. I even came out of the store and started yelling at the cop. I said, "He's the guy. He's the guy you guys are looking for," you know?

CUOMO: What did you think when you realized that the guy you had been talking to not only had a weapon but was willing to use it, even against the police?

BAINS: It's funny, like, usually -- it has happened before also, somebody lurching in front of the bar. And always, I go there and confront people and I yell at them.

But somehow maybe it was raining and what happened yesterday, I didn't, like, do anything. I just said -- I felt bad for him initially. That in the rain, he's like lurching around there. So I just -- I was worried that he might get hurt with the glass. So I just went there to talk to him and move to the side. You might get hurt, you know?

Usually I go -- I always go and fight with the guy or yell at them, what the hell you guys are doing in front of my bar, you know?

CUOMO: Well, you picked the right day to do it the right way. Because who knows what would have happened, God forbid.

So are a lot of people coming into the store as they recognize who you are now and coming to thank you for what you did for the rest of us?

BAINS: No, I did what I think every American would have done. My neighborhood would have done the same thing. Any Jewish, Christian, Sikh, Muslim. Anybody would have done the same thing.

I'm from Sikh faith. We have been taught always stand up against the atrocities, any kind of persecution. So I did what every American would have done. And we will be more stronger like this if we do everything together, you know?

CUOMO: Well, here's what I know. You made the rest of us look very good. Harinder Bains, thank you for reaching out to the police. You helped keep the rest of us safe. There's no question about that. You be well.

BAINS: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: What a great story and to hear from that gentleman.

Coming up in our next hour, we have New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. He will join us with an update on the investigation.

Also, the threat of terror gives voters a chance to see how Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton react in a crisis. Up next, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee with his suggestions on how to stop homegrown terror.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:23:36] CAMEROTA: All right. We're learning many new details this morning about the suspected bomber in New York and New Jersey. The 28-year-old traveled to Afghanistan and Pakistan, we now know. And a note found near the unexploded pressure cooker in New York included references to the Boston bombers. Let's discuss all of the new findings with Senator Angus King of

Maine. He serves on the Senate Intelligence Committee and the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: It's good to be with you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: From what you've learned thus far, what do you believe about this suspect's trainings and connections?

KING: Well, before we get to that, I think the first thing we ought to really acknowledge is incredible police work, coordination, whatever you want to call it between the FBI and local law enforcement. They found one guy in a haystack of 10 or 12 million people inside 36 hours. And everybody worked together. The wonderful community guy you just talked to, your station putting the pictures up, the flash identification, pretty -- pretty amazing work. And I think we ought to acknowledge that.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: The real question, I think, going forward is, what did this guy learn overseas? Was he radicalized there? Was he radicalized here?

And I think it points up something that we need to focus more attention on. I'm going to be meeting later this week with Director Comey of the FBI, certainly intend to raise this question. Apparently, his travel did raise flags, and they gave him what's called secondary screening, but it obviously didn't work.

[07:25:05] So the question is, is there something more we should do, something more in terms of, OK, who did he see when he was there? A further investigation to try to raise a flag that would have identified this guy. Now maybe there was nothing, but I think it's something -- it would be a fruitful area to do some work on.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, look, how could his travel not have raised flags? Let me put it up on the screen for everyone.

KING: Right.

CAMEROTA: The places that he went, these hot spots. He went back to Kandahar, Afghanistan, the place of his birth, in 2011. He also went to Quetta, Pakistan, which of course, is a hot bed of Taliban activity.

KING: And he was there for a year.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that's right. From April 2013 to March 2014. He was in Pakistan for nearly a year.

So then, Senator, as you say, he comes back to the airport. He's pulled aside for secondary screening. But really, I mean, what...

KING: Right. CAMEROTA: ... what are these people looking for at the airport? They say, "Why did you go to Pakistan?"

He says, "Well, I got married, and I went to see family."

"OK, on your way." I mean, what else are they supposed to do at the airport?

KING: Well, I'm not even sure he should have been at the airport. I think -- I think there could have been a more intensive holding and screening in that situation. Clearly, the flags were raised. The problem is what happened next didn't really go into any depth. And you know, that's what we've got to, I think, examine.

And I think every time something like this happens, you say, "OK, how do we plug this hole? How do we figure out how to do more?" And this is one where I think, if the travel raises a question -- and this isn't profiling; this is just looking at the facts. If the travel raises a question, there should be some more thorough check, not just, you know, "What did you do and did you have a nice trip?" So I think that's something we're going to have to follow up on.

CAMEROTA: Look, I just want to dig in a little bit on this.

KING: Sure.

CAMEROTA: Because I think this is really important, and this case certainly has highlighted a vulnerability.

If the travel raises a question, you would be comfortable with the FBI then monitoring that person, going to their house, doing more interviews? I mean, what does that look like?

KING: Well, it may look like -- it may look like some kind of further interviews, talking to associates. It may be contacting the -- our authorities in the country, what were the associations? It may be further discussions with this fellow: you know, "Who did you talk to? What did you do."

I'm not in the FBI, but I think this is a question that we need to explore for next steps in terms of if there's a question. The Tsarnaev brothers up in Boston had the same kind of record.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: And to me, this is -- this points out a place where we need to do some -- some more digging.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Senator, here's another place that, obviously, there's a hole and we need to fix.

The Department of Homeland Security has just put out a report that at least 858 people that had been ordered deported were erroneously granted citizenship. That is clearly some flaw in the system.

And doesn't this play into what Donald Trump has said all along, which is until we figure this out, until we know in our country that we know how to screen these people, we know we don't have any flaws in the system where we're giving people citizenship, we need to shut down immigration.

KING: Well, but these are people -- now, wait a minute. You're talking about people who were mistakenly given citizenship status. That means they've been here for some years. Clearly, I mean, nobody is going to justify an egregious error like that. And I have no idea how it happened. I suspect we're going to get to the bottom of it around here in the next week or so.

But the question is, there are millions -- talk about immigration, there are millions of people who go in and out of this country every day, every day who are tourists. And by the way, the vast majority of illegal aliens in the country came -- they're here overstaying visas. I shouldn't have said the vast majority, but about half are here because they're overstaying visas. A lot of them are from Europe.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: So there are gaps in the system. We have to look at them.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

KING: But you also have to look at what -- the law of large numbers. There are going to be -- there are going to be problems.

CAMEROTA: Well, sure, but I mean, I think that that's the point. While there's problems, since we clearly haven't figured out our own system, why is Donald Trump wrong to say, let's figure it out first?

KING: Well, because you're never to going to reach perfection. I mean, if you'd have asked somebody two weeks ago, "Are we OK on naturalization," they would have said, "Yes, sure, that's a situation that's working." We didn't know there was a problem until this manifested itself.

If we have to wait until we are satisfied that the system is absolutely perfect, any system, then you wait forever. And I suppose Donald Trump might say that's OK, but that would be a terrible loss for this country, because, you know, you've got the bad guy, but you also got thousands and thousands of really good people who come into this country. You know, everybody from Einstein to Donald Trump's ancestors and mine and yours came in through the immigration system.