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Protests Erupt in Charlotte after Police Shooting; Demonstrators Protest Deadly Shooting in Tulsa; Federal Charges Filed Against Bombing Suspect. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:58:09] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. We do begin with breaking news. A bad situation in Charlotte, North Carolina. You have violent protests going on after police shot and killed a black man they say had a gun. Demonstrators taking to the highway, looting tractor trailers, setting fires. Police deploying tear gas as cruisers were being destroyed by the protestors.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: At least a dozen police officers are hurt. The city's mayor is calling for calm at this hour.

Now, this unrest comes just hours after a different demonstration in Tulsa, Oklahoma, demanding the arrest of the police officer there for shooting this unarmed black man.

So we have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN's Brynn Gingras. She's -- has the breaking news out of Charlotte. What do you know, Brynn?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As you can see from that video, tumultuous night in Charlotte. The family of 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott says he did not have a gun. And instead, he was sitting in his car reading a book when an officer shot Scott, killing him. The differing accounts is what sparked all this outrage, and Charlotte's mayor calling for calm.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (voice-over): Overnight, violent protests erupting on the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold the police officers accountable for what they do.

GINGRAS: Several hundred protestors blocking a major highway, looting trucks and setting fire to some of their cargo. Officers in riot gear deploying tear gas, setting off flash-bangs. As angry crowds swarm squad cars, throwing water bottles and rocks at the officers, injuring at least a dozen.

Protestors moving to a local Wal-Mart. Video shows them attempting to break in but running once SWAT teams arrive. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The citizens have a legitimate concern. And their concern shouldn't be taken lightly.

GINGRAS: The clashes breaking out following the fatal shooting of a black man, Keith Lamont Scott. Police sale they arrived at an apartment complex looking to serve a warrant to another individual when they encountered Scott, who they say was armed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Made some imminent threat to them and, because of that, at least one of our officers fired rounds at the subject.

GINGRAS: Brentley Vinson, identified as the officer who shot Scott, is also a black male, according to local reports, now placed on administrative leave. But protesters are out in full force, questioning when will black lives truly matter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A terrorist, New Jersey, New York, he was taken alive. They said that they wanted to question him. So because of you wanting to question him, does his life mean more than our black men across the nation?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS: That is a sentiment I've seen all over social media.

Scott's family says he is a father of seven. Details of this investigation just beginning to come out at this hour. We expect to learn more at a news conference later this morning -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Brynn. Thanks so much for all that reporting.

Now to this other fatal police shooting, triggering protests in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hundreds gathering last night in front of police headquarters, demanding answers after police released video of an officer shooting an unarmed black man who was the father of four.

CNN's Ana Cabrera is live in Tulsa with more. What have you learned, Ana?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, protesters here are calling for Officer Betty Shelby to face criminal charges. They want to see her arrested.

Now, that depends on the outcome of the local police criminal investigation, but there's also a federal civil rights probe that has been opened. The Department of Justice opening its case after seeing video of what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA (voice-over): Police video shows the moments before 40-year- old Terence Crutcher is shot and killed by a Tulsa police officer, from this dashcam video and a police chopper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got his hands up there for her now. CABRERA: You can see Crutcher with his hands up. Tulsa Police

Officer Betty Shelby follows with her gun drawn, as Crutcher walks back toward his SUV that's stopped in the middle of the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is still walking and following commands.

CABRERA: Three other officers respond, standing between Crutcher and the dashcam video. But in the helicopter video, it appears Crutcher dropped at least one of his hands when he gets to his vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for Taser, I think.

CABRERA: But you don't see what Crutcher is doing as he is shot. The helicopter is circling around at that moment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too. Could be on something.

CABRERA: Crutcher falls to the ground...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have just been Tasered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!

CABRERA: ... shot and Tased.

CHUCK JORDAN, TULSA POLICE CHIEF: There was no gun on the suspect or in the suspect's vehicle.

CABRERA: Crutcher was unarmed. But Officer Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, says she didn't know that. Wood says Crutcher was not responding to Shelby's questions and ignored multiple commands.

Police now say the drug PCP was found inside of Crutcher's car. Attorneys for the Crutcher family say they're looking into that, but say no matter what, police mishandled this situation.

(on camera): Did him being a big, black man play a role in her perceived danger?

SCOTT WOOD, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER BETTY SHELBY: No. Him being a large man perceived a role in -- in her being in danger. She's worked in this part of town for quite some time and, you know, just the week before she was at an all-black high school homecoming football game. She's not afraid of black people.

CABRERA (voice-over): Shelby is now on paid administrative leave. While police and Shelby's attorney say Crutcher was reaching in the window of the car when she fired, video of the incident appears to show the driver's window is closed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too.

TIFFANY CRUTCHER, TERENCE'S TWIN SISTER: That big, bad dude was my twin brother. That bid, bad dude was a father. That big, bad dude was a son. That big, bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College, just wanting to make us proud.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Now, the family says Officer Shelby needs to be held accountable; and people all across the nation are joining that call on social media with the hashtag #TerenceCrutcher trending. People from politicians to sports stars speaking out on this particular case.

Now, the local police chief has vowed a transparent and thorough investigation, saying, quote, "Justice will be achieved, period" -- Alisyn, Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Ana. Let's talk about what we know, what the impact is of these situations both in Tulsa and in Charlotte. We have CNN contributor Bakari Sellers and Art Roderick, CNN law enforcement analyst and former assistant director at the U.S. Marshals Office.

Bakari, you happen to be in Charlotte. What is it like down there? What are you hearing?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I can't say that individuals were too surprised with the reaction of the protesters last night and people just being tired and being fed up and tired of seeing these images on TV.

Oftentimes, when I get on TV, my Republican commentators, they like to quote Martin Luther King. Well, I'll do so this morning, when he said that a riot is the voice of the unheard.

[06:05:07] And so I think what we saw last night, especially in the discrepancies of the story, because neighbors and friends and family all say that Keith Lamont Scott was actually reading a book, waiting on his son to get back from school. You know, we have these discrepancies, and people just want their voices heard. They're tired of seeing these images.

And there is a trust that's eroding between communities here, especially when you look at the Crutcher case and you know that the police lied about the instances of what happened. And without that video, that dashcam, we wouldn't see the truth.

So hopefully, that there is a clear investigation, and I hope that Mayor Roberts here in Charlotte begins to step up and take some leadership. Hopefully, she'll do that this morning and we figure out what's going on.

CUOMO: Well, I mean, look, that's the whole point, right, Art, is that you need to know what's going on. Very often things appear one way, and they can change. They can get worse in terms of the reckoning of the fact pattern.

In Tulsa, you have all this video that is raising a lot of questions about the police conduct and also the victim's conduct. Charlotte, we don't have any, but by law they're supposed to have it. They're supposed to have body cameras now. Maybe there's a phase-in period. But we don't have any word of that yet. Makes a big difference in the analysis.

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It does. There probably is a phase in. I mean, we're talking a lot of money. These cameras are expensive. We've also seen instances where law enforcement has yet to be trained to make sure that they turn on the device each time. I think we saw that in Washington, D.C., recently. So there is a phase-in period.

But I mean, we've got to deal with facts here. And listen, I've been on both sides of this. I've been investigated in a shooting accident. I've also investigated shooting incidents.

So the -- there are complex investigations. As we know, Chris, justice is not cut and clean and speedy as we hope it would be. It takes a long time. And sometimes people are calling for justice, it doesn't work out that way in the very end. I mean, you've got to look at the facts here. I think if -- we have to take a deep breath, take a step back and let the facts bear this case out. It's going to be investigated. I mean, all these shooting incidents are investigated.

CUOMO: Well, the question becomes by who. One of the things you see in Tulsa is that you have a parallel federal investigation.

RODERICK: Yes.

CUOMO: It does seem that the time has passed where you should rely, just for basic optics of transparency, on the same police force and the prosecutors who work with them when they're under the spotlight. It seems like the time has passed to have this be independent.

RODERICK: I completely agree with you. All incidences should be investigated by a third party. I think when you look at federal agencies, most of them go to a third party to have the investigation done when they're involved in a shooting incident. So that does give transparency to the whole -- to the whole issue, and I hope that's what's going to happen here.

CUOMO: Bakari, when -- obviously, you're in Charlotte, but let's discuss both of these. The Tulsa situation is also getting a lot of attention because it's on video, and we see the man walking back towards the car.

The police are saying they were giving him commands, and he wasn't heeding those commands. That doesn't seem to factor into any of the protests or riots that we see after these events.

SELLERS: Yes, I mean, my response is so what? I mean, you know, I had these discussions all the time, you know. When you talk about Tamir Rice, why did he have a toy gun? Or you talk about Eric Garner. Why was he selling loosie cigarettes? Or Michael Gardener [SIC], why did he commit the strong-arm robbery in the store.

And you have this gentleman right here. Why didn't he listen to commands? Well, you know what the penalty is for failure to stop or leaving the scene of the police or just not responding? It's a one- year sentence. It's not death. CUOMO: Right. But, Bakari, I think there's a difference coloring

somebody with their prior acts and coloring a situation with what happens during it.

What I'm saying is, hey, this guy is a robber on the side. I agree with why you'd say that's irrelevant to the instant analysis. I'm saying, if the man isn't listening, now look, it's still perplexing. I don't know why the officers couldn't have used other means of force to stop this guy walking back towards his truck.

But if it is true that he was being told get on the ground, do all the things that they usually tell you to do in those situations, and he wasn't, is that relevant?

SELLERS: I guess it's relevant in some analysis but at the end of the day, I think that the result is patently absurd. I mean, his death, it just should not have happened. I mean, you can Tase him. You can de-escalate the situation.

The fact that this officer wasn't capable of de-escalating the situation and it ended up in a death. I mean, his only crime that day was literally, I guess, not following officers' commands and having a stalled vehicle in the street. None of that, none of that means that he should die.

And you know, the young lady in the package beforehand when she talks to you -- and I know that this is very sensationalizing and probably drives many people crazy from the other side, but this is how I feel; this is how many people feel. When you have a terrorist in New York and New Jersey who shoots at five officers and somehow is able to survive and actually be alive for questioning; but you have this gentleman in Tulsa, Oklahoma, with his hands up just walking back to his car that ends up dead, that question about the value of black lives is a real serious one that we have to discuss.

CUOMO: Look, that -- that is something that we're hearing. And it goes to -- it's hard to compare the two situations. We don't know...

RODERICK: It's impossible to.

CUOMO: But here's what there is thematically in all of these. Did you have to use the gun? In a situation like that, was there nothing else that could have been done?

I had a cop once say to me that, "When I'm going to use force, I pretend that's somebody I know. You know, in my analysis. I know I'm supposed to perceive imminent threat, but I go to the gun when I would have to go to the gun, even if it's someone I know." That's what a situation like this, where you have a guy -- big guy, not big guy, whoever he is -- walking towards the truck.

RODERICK: Right.

CUOMO: Why, when you have all those officers there, isn't something else done before going to lethal force? Fair question. RODERICK: It is a fair question, and we have to listen to the

officers' statements and see what they say. I agree with you. De- escalation is the way to go.

I mean, I've always -- when I started on this law enforcement career of mine 40 years ago, almost 40 years ago, I had a great training officer who told me, "Don't take any of this stuff personally." You know, you're supposed to obey an officer's lawful commands to stop, get down on the ground, whatever the command is. And if that was not done here, I agree with you. But let's just take a deep breath, look at the facts and go with what the facts tell us.

CUOMO: All right. Gentlemen, thank you very much for setting the table on this for us.

SELLERS: Chris...

CUOMO: Bakari, yes, you've got a last word?

SELLERS: Yes, I've got a last word. If, in fact, we do have an accident here, if she -- if I grant her the fact that she didn't mean to shoot him or something happened, there is no excuse, absolutely no excuse, and it should be a criminal act, for the failure to render aid.

I thought that that was the most telling thing in this video. The fact that they left him dying in his own blood and did not render aid and treated him so inhumanely after she was shot, which is a problem, and we've seen that on video after video after video.

CUOMO: Bakari, fair point.

Thank you very much, gentlemen, both of you.

All right. We're going to talk exclusively with the family of Terence Crutcher. He is the victim in the Tulsa shooting. That's going to happen next hour.

At 8, we're going to hear from the attorney of the police officer who fired that deadly shot, and we'll get that tape from the attorney -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Chris. Now to the investigation into the terror bombings in New York and New Jersey. We're learning much more about the bombing suspect, Ahmad Rahami, his family, and what may have motivated the attacks.

CNN's justice correspondent, Evan Perez, joins us now with more. Give us your latest reporting, Evan.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

Ahmad Khan Rahami is now facing multiple federal charges for the bombings in New York and New Jersey, including using weapons of mass destruction and a bombing of a public place. A criminal complaint that was released yesterday is offering new

insight into how the alleged bomber, Rahami, carried out this weekend's attacks. Now, what may have motivated him and the potential for bombings that could have been a lot worse.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREZ (voice-over): Federal investigators say this weekend's bombings were in the works for months. According to a criminal complaint, alleged bomber Ahmad Khan Rahami bought the components for the explosives on eBay over the summer, including citric acid and circuit boards. He shipped the materials to his workplace.

Then, just days before the attacks, a video shows Rahami experimenting with explosives, officials say. The video, recovered from a family member's cell phone, shows Rahami igniting incendiary material in a cylindrical container, then billowing smoke and laughter.

The bomb that ultimately exploded Saturday night in New York City powerful enough to propel this 100-pound Dumpster more than 120 feet, shattering windows three stories high and 400 feet from the detonation.

Twelve fingerprints on the unexploded bomb found four blocks away ultimately leading authorities to Rahami.

Another key piece of evidence: a handwritten journal found on Rahami when he was captured in New Jersey, which authorities say referenced terrorists, including American-born American cleric Anwar al-Awlaki and Osama bin Laden. Rahami writing, "God willing, the sounds of the bombs will be heard in the streets."

The complaint also references a social media account officials believe to be Rahami's, showing that the suspect favorited two videos related to jihad.

These details coming as authorities confirm that Rahami came on the FBI's radar two years ago. U.S. Customs telling CNN that they notified the bureau about Rahami after he returned from a trip to Pakistan and Afghanistan in 2014.

Later that year, the FBI investigated a tip alleging the suspect's father was calling his son a terrorist.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Why did you call the FBI two years ago? What happened?

MOHAMMAD RAHAMI, FATHER OF AHMAD KHAN RAHAMI: Because he's doing bad.

FEYERICK: He's doing bad? What did he do bad?

RAHAMI: He stabbed my son. He hit my wife. And I put him to jail four years ago.

PEREZ: His father ultimately retracting that accusation, leading authorities to conclude it was a domestic matter. [06:15:09] A friend of the suspect says that Rahami and his family

have been at odds since he got his girlfriend pregnant in high school.

EHSAN, FAMILY FRIEND: For him, it was -- it was his father. And it was just -- it was just tension. It was on -- it was his part, too. He should have listened more to his father, maybe, you know, stayed in school.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREZ: Now, according to a U.S. official, Ahmad Rahami's wife left the United States before Saturday's bombings. She'd been scheduled to fly back to the United States this week. She's currently in the United Arab Emirates, where she's cooperating with investigators -- guys.

CAMEROTA: Evan, thanks so much for all that reporting.

CUOMO: All right. So could these bombings have been prevented? Our counterterrorism and national security experts are going to talk about the clues and what people around this would-be killer might have known and what they should have done, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Federal prosecutors have filed four criminal charges against the man suspected of planting and detonating bombs in New York and New Jersey, including a weapons of mass destruction charge. We're now learning new details about how he allegedly gathered components for those bombs and his possible motives.

[06:20:10] Joining us now is CNN counterterrorism analyst and former CIA counterterrorism official Phil Mudd; and CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto. Guys, thanks so much for being here.

Let's talk about -- there's a couple of interesting new details in the complaint that has been charged against this guy. So let me read these and what they reveal.

He bought his components on eBay. That's chilling, you know. He was -- they were shipped to an address, like maybe his workplace in Perth- Amboy.

Cellphone video shows the suspect igniting incendiary material in a New Jersey backyard, I mean, maybe as practice, I guess.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CAMEROTA: A dry run?

Journal writings discuss jihad. They praise Anwar al-Awlaki, Osama bin Laden. Twelve fingerprints were found on the Chelsea bomb.

Jim, given all this -- details, are authorities thinking that he acted alone or with help now? SCIUTTO: They don't know for sure. I asked the New York police

commissioner that very question yesterday, and he said that this is still an open investigation. They are still speaking to family members. They're looking to social media contacts. They don't have evidence of support yet, but they haven't -- they certainly haven't eliminated that possibility.

But, you know, as you look at this, the idea that he blew up two days before the attack in a backyard, filmed himself, of a pretty loud explosive. This at least opens the question of, how did someone not hear, see, suspect at that point? So, if it's not active support, did someone know something that they didn't share with authorities?

CAMEROTA: Yes. They found this journal on him...

SCIUTTO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... with all sorts of -- described as rantings. Let me read a portion of it. "In shallah [SIC], God willing, the sounds of the bombs will be heard on the streets. Gun shots to your police. Death to your OPPRESSION."

It turns out, Phil, that his dad thought that he was becoming somehow more extreme or radicalized; and he alerted police.

PHIL MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And the FBI looked into this. But they didn't talk to Rahami himself. Why not?

MUDD: I think one of the reasons is you're talking about a criminal complaint here. That is, in the case we're discussing, that is a domestic dispute. FBI goes to talk to the father. The father says the story changes over time.

I think if you look at this, you have to step back and step away from the case. In every one of these, you have to ask one question. Forget about the case. Three hundred and thirty million people in this country. Every time somebody calls and says, "There's a domestic dispute, I'm concerned about my son," do you think the FBI can investigate every one of those? This is a numbers game. It's not a question about whether they did something in this...

CAMEROTA: I get it. But I mean, they were investigating him.

MUDD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Why not talk to the suspect himself?

MUDD: I think that's a fair question. But they were not investigating him. That's a step -- that's a step forward from this. They're just responding to a call, to a father who's worried about his son.

The other fact we have is the son traveled. Those two facts lead to an investigation? I don't think so. CAMEROTA: OK. So you get a call that a father says, "I'm afraid my

son is a terrorist," and you never interview him?

MUDD: Hold on. That's what the father says two years later. That is not a fact. The father's story has changed over time.

SCIUTTO: He told authorities at the time, two years ago, at first, "I think my son might be a terrorist," but then he recanted.

MUDD: That's correct.

SCIUTTO: He recanted that statement and said, "Listen, no, he's violent at home," et cetera.

CAMEROTA: OK. So he's violent at home. There's some domestic violence.

MUDD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And originally the father says, "I think my son is a terrorist." You, Phil Mudd, don't go and talk to that son?

MUDD: I think -- again, I think it's a fair question about whether they should have talked to the son. But if you're -- if you're taking a case where a dad is worried about violence with his child and you multiply it by 50 states in this country, you're talking about investigations that are going to start to number in the tens of thousands. You can't do that.

SCIUTTO: And you know, they did speak to -- well, the FBI did not speak to him, but on his return from some of his foreign travel, we know that he was taken aside for extra questioning, because he was returning from areas in Pakistan, for instance, that are known to be Taliban areas. So they had a conversation. That information, we know, was put into an interagency database that other authorities could have accessed.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but he basically said, "I got married, and I went to a relative's wedding."

SCIUTTO: This is the thing. It's a judgment call. And it's difficult. They're making, you know, dozens of judgement calls like this every day, and the fact is, they can't predict the future, you know. It's just a really difficult thing to do.

CAMEROTA: Look, I mean, obviously, the police do wonderful work. The FBI does wonderful work. They keep us safe all the time. But just as a lay person...

MUDD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: ... you'd think that you'd go and talk to the actual subject of the complaint to see if you think they're violent or if you think that they're an extremist.

MUDD: Yes. CAMEROTA: The wife, she left a couple of days -- or whatever, she left before the attack. We don't know exactly how long before the attack. What do we know about it?

SCIUTTO: She did. So initially, that looked to be suspicious, but apparently, she was planning to return in recent days, and we know that U.S. investigators caught up with her the UAE, in Dubai. This was a transit point on her way back to the U.S. And our understanding is that she is cooperating with authorities.

CAMEROTA: OK. So Phil, when you talk to the wife of somebody like this, how do you determine if she knew or if she didn't know? What are the questions you ask her?

MUDD: Three questions. First, imminent threat. Is there something out there we need to be aware of today? Second, are there co- conspirators? Are there people who supported the operation? And third is who knew?

[06:25:02] I don't believe her when she starts to speak. I don't care who she is. I start to match up what she says against what you find, for example, on e-mails, on phone activity, whether she was texting him with greater urgency in the days before.

The other thing you have to remember, Alisyn, we've got time here. The suspect, $5.2 million bail. He's not going anywhere. She may be cooperating from day one. You could see charges a month or two down the road, because there's no urgency to determine whether she was a co-conspirator. The act has already happened.

CAMEROTA: This is interesting, because in some of the recent cases, we haven't seen the charges yet against the spouses, even though some of them appeared to know something.

MUDD: Right.

CAMEROTA: Jim, Phil, thank you very much.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Hillary Clinton is speaking out, calling the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man in Tulsa unbearable and intolerable. So far no comment from the self-proclaimed law and order candidate, Donald Trump. How will the deadly police shootings in Charlotte and Tulsa affect the race? What will our leaders do to make us better? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: All right. We're following breaking news in Charlotte. Protesters and riots breaking out all over different streets and interstates there. Fires being lit because of another police shooting. A black man killed by police. They say he was armed. The facts are still early on that and the

situation in general. You'll see on your screen what has been taking place ever since word got out.