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New Day

Protests Erupt in Charlotte after Police Shooting; Interview with Terence Crutcher's Family; Demonstrators Protest Deadly Shooting in Tulsa; Interview with Sen. Chris Coons. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 21, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The man that you see on your screen in white, apparently, unarmed, hands over his head keeps making his way back towards his vehicle. Why? And why did the police have to use deadly force?

We have it all covered. Let's begin with CNN's Brynn Gingras on the breaking news out of Charlotte -- Brynn.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Chris, you just mentioned those dozen police officers hurt. We know several protesters were injured, as well, in this chaos that unfolded on Charlotte's streets overnight. That anger spurred by the shooting death of 43-year-old Keith Lamont Scott.

Police say he was armed. Scott's family says the father of seven was not, and he was just in his car reading.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (voice-over): Overnight, violent protests erupting on the streets of Charlotte, North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold the police officers accountable for what they do.

GINGRAS: Several hundred protestors blocking a major highway, looting trucks and setting fire to some of their cargo. Officers in riot gear deploying tear gas, setting off flash-bangs. As angry crowds swarm squad cars, throwing water bottles and rocks at the officers, injuring at least a dozen.

Protestors moving to a local Wal-Mart. Video shows them attempting to break in but running once SWAT teams arrive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The citizens have a legitimate concern. And their concern shouldn't be taken lightly.

GINGRAS: The clashes breaking out following the fatal shooting of a black man, Keith Lamont Scott. Police say they arrived at an apartment complex looking to serve a warrant to another individual when they encountered Scott, who they say was armed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Made some imminent threat to them and, because of that, at least one of our officers fired rounds at the subject. GINGRAS: Brentley Vinson, identified as the officer who shot Scott,

is also a black male, according to local reports, now placed on administrative leave. But protesters are out in full force, questioning when will black lives truly matter?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A terrorist, New Jersey, New York, he was taken alive. They said that they wanted to question him. So because of you wanting to question him, does his life mean more than our black men across the nation?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS: A lot of frustration. The Charlotte's mayor promising a full investigation into what happened at that apartment complex. The investigation, though, just beginning; and we expect to learn more at a news conference later this morning.

In the meantime, Charlotte's mayor calling for calm -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Brynn. Thank you. We'll come back to you.

Protestors also taking to the street in Tulsa, Oklahoma, after police released video of a deadly police shooting of an unarmed black man. Hundreds gathering in front of the police headquarters there last night. They're calling for the firing of the officer who killed Terence Crutcher, a 40-year-old father of four. CNN's Ana Cabrera is live in Tulsa with more -- Ana.

Chris, protesters here want to see the officer involved arrested. Now, that depends on the outcome of a local police criminal investigation, but there is also a separate civil rights investigation into this case. The Department of Justice opening its investigation after seeing the video of what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police video shows the moments before 40-year-old Terence Crutcher is shot and killed by a Tulsa police officer, from this dashcam video and a police chopper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got his hands up there for her now.

CABRERA: You can see Crutcher with his hands up. Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby follows with her gun drawn, as Crutcher walks back toward his SUV that's stopped in the middle of the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is still walking and following commands.

CABRERA: Three other officers respond, standing between Crutcher and the dashcam video. But in the helicopter video, it appears Crutcher drops at least one of his hands when he gets to his vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for Taser, I think.

CABRERA: But you don't see what Crutcher is doing as he is shot. The helicopter is circling around at that moment. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too. Could be on

something.

CABRERA: Crutcher falls to the ground...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may have just been Tasered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!

CABRERA: ... shot and Tased.

CHUCK JORDAN, TULSA POLICE CHIEF: There was no gun on the suspect or in the suspect's vehicle.

CABRERA: Crutcher was unarmed. But Officer Shelby's attorney, Scott Wood, says she didn't know that. Wood says Crutcher was not responding to Shelby's questions and ignored multiple commands.

Police now say the drug PCP was found inside of Crutcher's car. Attorneys for the Crutcher family say they're looking into that but say, no matter what, police mishandled this situation.

(on camera): Did him being a big, black man play a role in her perceived danger?

SCOTT WOOD, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER BETTY SHELBY: No. Him being a large man perceived a role in -- in her being in danger. She's worked in this part of town for quite some time and, you know, just the week before she was at an all-black high school homecoming football game. She's not afraid of black people.

CABRERA (voice-over): Shelby is now on paid administrative leave. While police and Shelby's attorney say Crutcher was reaching in the window of the car when she fired, video of the incident appears to show the driver's window is closed.

[07:05:08] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too.

TIFFANY CRUTCHER, TERENCE'S TWIN SISTER: That big, bad dude was my twin brother. That big, bad dude was a father. That big, bad dude was a son. That big, bad dude was enrolled at Tulsa Community College, just wanting to make us proud.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA; Now, the family is calling for police accountability in this case.

We're also seeing a swell on social media, joining the call for police officers to be held accountable nationwide, with everybody from politicians to sports stars weighing in on this issue, using the hashtag #TerenceCrutcher. The local police chief, Chuck Jordan, vowing to have a transparent and very thorough investigation, saying, quote, "We will achieve justice, period" -- Chris, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ana, thank you very much for all that reporting.

Joining us now is Terence Crutcher's family, his mother Leanna, his father Reverend Joey and his twin sister Tiffany. Also with us are their attorneys, Benjamin Crump and Damario Solomon-Simmons. Thanks to all of you for being here. I know how hard this day is for you, and we're so sorry for your loss.

Mrs. Crutcher, have you watched the video of what happened to your son?

LEANNA CRUTCHER, MOTHER: Once.

CAMEROTA: What do you see in that video?

L. CRUTCHER: I see Terence walking towards his SUV with his hands raised high over his body. And then all of a sudden, he falls to the ground

CAMEROTA: Yes. We can imagine how painful it is to be watching those moments.

Reverend Crutcher, how do you explain what you see in that video?

REVEREND JOEY CRUTCHER, FATHER: The video was released, I think, on Sunday, and the first time I was able to watch it was on Monday. And I lost it. It's the most devastating thing that has ever happened to me in my life.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Crump, the police say that Terence -- they believe Terence was reaching for something in the car when they shot him. I know that you have said that you can prove that's not true. In fact, at a press conference -- I believe we have this -- you held up a photo that you say showed that he couldn't be reaching for something. Watch this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY, PARKS & CRUMP LAW FIRM: It is very clear even when we just tried to bring attention to simply the window. You can see that it is completely up, and there is blood going almost to the top of the window.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So Mr. Crump, you think that that evidence shows that the window was up, he couldn't have been reaching for anything. The police say he wasn't following their commands. What do you think was going on in those final moments?

CRUMP: I think that the police are trying to figure out a way to justify blaming Terence Crutcher for his own death, Alisyn. When you look at that video, don't take our word for it. Look at the video. You can slow it down.

We have technical experts that are going to enhance the video, and it clearly shows -- and I'm sorry for this, you know -- there's a streak of blood coming down from the window, coming down on the car, and then coming to where his body is resting with his hands up, still. And it shows that it all is contemporaneous. Look at that video. It is all the evidence we need. We need not consider anything else but what our own eyes show us.

CAMEROTA: Tiffany, Terence -- you and Terence are twins. We're watching an aerial footage right here of police in a helicopter who were over the scene. And there are snippets of audio of that chopper pilot and the other officer. And I just want to play a second of that for you and for our viewers of what they were saying.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got his hands up there for her now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: There's more...

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to hit the recorder. This guy's still walking and following commands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Time for Taser I think.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got a feeling that's about to happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That looks like a bad dude, too. Could be on something.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Tiffany when he says, "That looks like a bad dude, too," what do you see and hear?

T. CRUTCHER: I hear someone who was paid to protect and serve us prejudging my brother. He didn't know my brother at all. And I have so many friends who are officers of the law, and they stand with us. And they say that's not representation of who are public servants are supposed to be. And it just validates what we've been angry about, what we've been confused about, what we've been hurt about.

[07:10:13] CAMEROTA: Because "he looks like a bad dude," what does that say to you?

T. CRUTCHER: It says that anyone who's big in stature or may have brown skin, it just seems like they automatically criminalize or demonize or say, "Hey, you know, we're going to get you."

I mean I'm really sad. And I have friends who have young boys and they're afraid to go to driver's ed. They don't want driver's license. They're afraid. And that saddens me.

CAMEROTA: I mean, you want them to know that your brother was not a bad dude. He was a father and a brother and a son. T. CRUTCHER: He was all of that. I -- all last night I've been flooded with love and support from people all around the world from all different backgrounds, all different cultures.

And one that really broke me down and really touched my heart was one of his professors at Tulsa Community College, who said, "Terence was in my sociology class last fall. He never missed a class. All he talked about was his children. And his final presentation that he did was on Christianity." And she said her heart breaks, and she's going to miss him.

And I lost it. And so that big, bad dude mattered. He truly mattered.

CAMEROTA: And yet Mr. Crump, the police say that he wasn't following their instructions. Maybe he told them to stop. Maybe they told him to stop. Maybe they told him to get down. They said that that's what caused them concern. To either of you, that he wasn't following instructions. And police probably would have said, "Get down; don't go to your car." Why wouldn't he have followed those instructions if that's what was issued?

DAMARIO SOLOMON-SIMMONS, ATTORNEY, SOLOMON SIMMONS & ASSOCIATES: What we do know -- we don't know what was said because no audio. But what we do know is that we have a video. It does not have a political affiliation. It does not have an ulterior motive. We have a video we can clearly see. We don't have to explain it.

We can see on the video that Terence did not have a weapon. We can see on the video that Terence has his hands up in the air. We can see on the video that Terence was moving at a very slow and deliberate manner. We see very clearly on the video that Terence never made a sudden movement towards the officers or towards going inside of the vehicle. We can see on the video that, when Terence was shot, the officers were not in any imminent harm.

CRUMP: And it was broad daylight, Alisyn, the whole time. And there was no justification for this use of excessive force.

CAMEROTA: The police say that they found the drug PCP inside the car. Do you believe them?

CRUMP: We don't know what they found in the car. We will take it at their word, because they got all the, quote unquote, "evidence" in their custody. They say they're going to be transparent.

This is an opportunity for the leadership to be transparent so they can build a trust with this Tulsa community that maybe can be an example, Alisyn, for communities all over America. We see what's happening in Charlotte. We saw what happened in Sanford, Florida, when Mike Brown has his hands up. We see what happened to Tamir Rice in Cleveland.

And when you're not transparent and the community feel they cannot trust you, then we have terrible things that happen in our communities. CAMEROTA: Would that change the equation for you if there were PCP in the car?

CRUMP: No that...

CAMEROTA: And if that meant that somehow he was debilitated by having taken the drug somehow?

CRUMP: Alisyn, you look at that video, and nothing in that video justifies them using excessive lethal force on him. And if we're going to start declaring the death sentence to anybody that has drugs in their system, well, they're going to go to a lot of communities, not just our community, and God help America.

CAMEROTA: Tiffany, you and your brother, you're twins, as I said. You just celebrated your 40th birthday a month ago. And on that day, he told you that he was looking forward to the future and what his plans were.

T. CRUTCHER: Yes. He told me that he was excited about the future, excited about starting school. I have a final text message, the very last one, where he told me that he loved me. I told him that I loved him. And he said, "God is going to get the glory out of my life," in that text message. And we're a family of faith, and we know that all things work together for the good.

And if any good comes out of this, if any good can come out of this, we're hoping that America will open their eyes, everybody, and see that there's an issue, a systemic issue that needs to be solved. And we're pleading with the leadership of this country, everyone, to just see that and let's -- let's put some systems in place to prevent this from happening again.

CAMEROTA: And yet, Reverend Crutcher, you wake up this morning, and there are protests in Charlotte, North Carolina, because there's been another incident. Not the same. This man, police say, did have a gun. But he was sitting in his car.

[07:15:05] These are the protests you're waking up to this morning of another incident. What are your thoughts when you see this continuing to happen?

J. CRUTCHER: It's just a continuation of the same thing. Over and over and over again. And it's perpetuated against people of color more than anything else. If it would have been in the reverse, if it would have been a Caucasian, it would have been totally different, because there are records that indicate and show that this situation wouldn't have happened if that would have been a Caucasian. And if the -- and if the circumstances were in reverse, Terence would have been charged immediately.

CAMEROTA: Mrs. Crutcher, how are Terence's kids doing?

L. CRUTCHER: Well, they're doing the best that they can do at this present time. What's breaking my heart is that his youngest son -- we call him Little Terence -- asked the day before yesterday, "Where's my dad?" Cause he hadn't seen him, you know, in a couple of days. So in his mind, he's wondering what's going on.

So we told him, because we are people of faith, that Dad went to Heaven, and that kind of satisfied him for the moment. Because he knows Dad is in a good place. So...

CAMEROTA: Hillary Clinton talked about your case. She called it intolerable to see something like this. What do you think, that this is now a national conversation about what happened to your son?

L. CRUTCHER: Well, it should be talked about it. People should be discussing it. And we need to come to some type of way of making this right. Getting justice for not only Terence but for all of those killings across our country.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Crump, we've talked to you, sadly, too many times about cases like this. You've covered and been involved in many of them. Why is this one making you so emotional?

CRUMP: It's very, very hard to watch that video, Alisyn. Anybody in America with a heart who watches that video knows that this causes tension in your soul. And what Dr. King said is that peace is not the absence of tension; it's the presence of justice.

So for what happened in Cleveland, what happened in Sanford, what happened in Staten Island, all these things that were on video, let's make sure we have justice here to heal this country. This is on video. There's no looking away from this. There's no trying to blame the victim in this particular case, because we see it with our eyes, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Our thoughts are with all of you this morning. Thank you for coming in and sharing your very personal, painful story so that you can continue this conversation. We appreciate you being here on NEW DAY.

T. CRUTCHER: Thank you.

CRUMP: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Coming up in our next hour, we will hear from the other side. We'll hear from the attorney for the officer who pulled Terence Crutcher over. That person will join us live, and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:15] CAMEROTA: More on our breaking news this morning, two communities protesting deadly police shootings that killed black men. There were violent protests in Charlotte overnight, demonstrators taking an interstate -- as you can see here -- setting fires, blocking the roadway.

Here to discuss this, as well as many other issues, is Senator Chris Coons. He's from Delaware; he's a Democrat and a Hillary Clinton supporter. He's also on the Senate Committee of Foreign Relations.

Senator, thanks so much for being here.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D), DELAWARE: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: I know you just heard that interview with the Crutcher family. How do you explain we see too many of these, of black men being shot after what is supposed to be a routine traffic stop? In this case, his car had broken down. He was actually looking for help. And in the space of just a few minutes, he's killed.

COONS: That's right, Alisyn. This is, sadly, another chapter in what has been a whole series of tragic shootings that I think the African- American community, Americans concerned about justice, find unacceptable.

And we're -- hearings that we've held on the Judiciary Committee, actions that the Justice Department has taken has not yet made a significant difference.

Now this is a question in no small part about police training and policies and how deadly force is used. I've been here in New York for the United Nations meetings. It was striking how quickly, how well the NYPD and FBI investigated and solved Ahmad Khan -- Rahami's, forgive me -- his bomb attacks.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

COONS: And one of the most painful things I heard on TV was someone from Charlotte saying he was taken in alive for questioning. How come, when someone like Terence Crutcher has an encounter with police, he ends up dead?

CAMEROTA: A terror suspect is taken in alive.

COONS: That is a difficult to...

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: That is -- that is an interesting perspective -- way -- lens through which to look at it.

But, you know, from the police perspective, if somebody's not following commands -- that's what they say -- they say they found PCP in his car, which may contribute somehow to his not following commands. I mean, what are police supposed to do in that situation?

COONS: Well, one of our challenges nationally is to put this in perspective. We have about 3 million people in law enforcement across the entire country. So the percentage of law enforcement officers who are involved in the use of deadly force is a very, very small percentage, and the percentage of those cases that end up on national news after a tragedy is exceptionally small.

If you don't have good training and if we don't have thorough and transparent investigations, and there isn't justice in cases that turn out to have been bad shootings where officers made a tragic mistake, then the trust that the African-American community and our country is understandably, is justifiably eroded. And we have incidents like the riots last night.

CUOMO: There's been a failure not to take the next step, and that's pretty obvious. Often the federal government gets a pass on this, because policing is a state and local issue. But that's not entirely true. There is no national database of accounting for these kinds of shootings.

[06:25:11] COONS: That's right.

CUOMO: With all of the things that the federal government decides to stick its nose into that is arguably irrelevant, if not redundant, this. Who is stopping the federal government from coming together and having a national database just to track the shootings?

COONS: Right. I'm a co-sponsor of legislation that would create just such a database.

CUOMO: But who's stopping it?

COONS: We are not able to move forward in the Senate, as you know, I think, responsible changes in terms of background checks, in terms of studies in accountability around deadly use of force or around the impact that handguns have in American life. And there is...

CUOMO: But why -- why group them all together? The gun issue is too politically charged. You guys aren't going to come together on it. I'm not saying that's a good thing; it's a practical thing.

COONS: These are closely connected in terms of who is opposing moving forward.

CUOMO: Right. But just to count them, just to count them.

COONS: Right.

CUOMO: Just -- don't muddy it up with anything else.

COONS: Right.

CUOMO: Just when one of these things happen, we mark it down. And so we can look at it year over year. Who's getting shot? Why are they getting shot? You know, how many and how many different places? Why can't you just get that done?

COONS: Chris, I think you're well aware that there are national lobbying organizations and there are political leaders in the other party who have opposed bipartisan background checks, bipartisan criminal justice reform, and bipartisan efforts that would strengthen the hand of the federal Department of Justice and its Civil Rights Division.

Civil Rights Division has made a significant impact and contribution in municipalities like Ferguson, in cases like Baltimore, where there were real differences and real problems between the community and the police department. Earlier in my life, when I was a county executive, I was possible for

a county police department, and I was proud of our record there. We had very few problems like this.

But we did have one tragic shooting, where an adult man who was mentally ill was not compliant, was not responding to orders from local police, municipal police force, to stop. And he advanced on a whole group of police -- some of our county police were involved, as well -- and he was killed. And that led to my direct involvement in a very searching revision of our policies and our training around the handling of incidents involving adults with mental illness.

That is different than this case. But you were asking me, Alisyn, earlier, in an instance where police are -- are...

CUOMO: Although if somebody is on PCP, they should be considered mentally ill. That should be part of the training...

COONS: To be behaving...

CUOMO: ... of how you deal with this type of odd behavior and how you de-escalate the force without having to go to a gun.

CAMEROTA: I want to quickly...

COONS: And with the right training, you can avoid having those instances escalate into the use of deadly force.

CAMEROTA: Thanks for giving us your experience on that. I do want to quickly turn to the United Nations General Assembly. It was President Obama's final appearance in front of that body. Let me play a portion of that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today a nation ringed by walls would only imprison itself, so the answer cannot be a simple rejection of global integration. Instead, we must work together to make sure the benefits of such integration are broadly shared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I know you were there in the room for that moment. "A nation ringed by walls would only imprison itself." What could he be referring to?

COONS: Well, I think he's indirectly referring to the central campaign proposal of Donald Trump to build a wall with Mexico and make them pay for it.

I'll tell you, earlier this summer, I led a bipartisan delegation to Eastern Europe. We visited Ukraine, in particular, and I know President Poroshenko of Ukraine was seeking a meeting with Donald Trump while he was here in New York meeting with the President of Egypt and was rejected. In no small part what President Obama delivered in a very strong speech yesterday was a call for the world to come together to address the very serious problem of refugees and a call for us to continue to continue to look for peaceful solutions to some of the real challenges in the world.

Donald Trump's statements about Ukraine and Putin suggest a dangerous lack of familiarity with Putin's actual record of invading a neighboring country and dangerous lack of respect for, or familiarity with, our NATO treaty alliances.

In meetings I had with heads of state in recent days here in New York City, they all expressed real concern or question about Donald Trump's readiness or fitness to serve as president.

CAMEROTA: Senator Chris Coons, thanks so much for being here with your expertise on all of these issues. Thanks so much.

CUOMO: It's good to have you.

More -- we're learning more details about the bombing suspect in New York and those New Jersey bombs, as well. What we're learning about his wife, what she might have known; his family, what they might have known; and why did he do this? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)