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Protests Over Police Shooting of Black Man Turn Violent in Charlotte, North Carolina; Interview with Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake; Trump Claims Black Communities in Worst Shape Ever. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 22, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The protester later apologized.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Taking out their frustrations on me.

VALENCIA: Police confirm several police officers suffered injuries. Charlotte officials say if unrest continues they'll explore, quote, "other options" including curfews to keep people off the streets.

MAYOR JENNIFER ROBERTS, (D) CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA: We are working very hard to bring peace and calm back to our city. We know that this is not who Charlotte is. This is not who we are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: Complicating things are these competing threads of information. Keith Scott's family says he was unarmed when he was shot. The police say that is simply not true. They found a weapon on him and the reason that he was shot was because he did not comply with demands by officers to drop his weapon. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: You have calls for justice in the shooting. You now have calls for what happened behind Nick Valencia. So more stores damaged in last night's riots. The police chief down there is vowing that the investigation into Keith Lamont Scott's shooting will be handled transparently. But there are two very different versions of what happened emerging. And so far the police haven't released the video. We have CNN's Polo Sandoval live from Charlotte with more on that aspect. Polo?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Chris. Good morning. Mixed in that growing call for justice you just mention is also that growing call to see some of those video clips that were shot the day of the shooting, police dash cam footage, possibly even some of the body cameras that were born by some of the officers. But again authorities are citing at least one law that that claim could prevent them from releasing the footage. We talk to people on the ground, they hope when and if some of the footage is released they could put to rest some of these two different versions being claimed right now by people on the ground.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) REV. B.J. MURPHY, NATION OF ISLAM: They say he had a gun. Somebody said he had a book. We need to do our own independent investigation to see if that is actually true.

SANDOVAL: Two very different accounts emerging about what led police to fatally shoot Keith Lamont Scott in the parking lot of his apartment complex. Police say Scott had a gun when he was confronted by Officer Brentley Vinson.

CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Mr. Scott, as I said, exited his vehicle armed with a handgun as the officers continued to yell at him to drop it. He stepped out posing a threat to the officers and Officer Brentley Vinson subsequently fired his weapon, striking the subject.

SANDOVAL: But Scott's daughter insists her father did not have a gun, alleging that if he did, police planted it. Moments after the shooting she offered her account in an emotional Facebook livestream.

LYNC SCOTT, KEITH SCOTT'S DAUGHTER: You can't even do -- my daddy is definitely disabled. What -- gun he had? He in the damn car reading a -- you all must -- because he black.

SANDOVAL: Charlotte police have not released the video but maintained that the evidence recovered at the scene proves their story.

PUTNEY: A weapon was seized, a handgun. I can also tell you we did not find a book that has been made reference to.

SANDOVAL: These conflicting accounts offering little comfort to Scott's wife. She issued a statement late Wednesday night, asserting, quote, "After listening to remarks made by Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Chief Putney today we have more questions than answers about Keith's death. Rest assured we will work diligently to get answers to our questions as quickly as possible."

The ACLU has called for Charlotte police to release the officer's video despite a new law that the city says prohibits them from releasing it. But the new law doesn't go into effect for another week. Charlotte's mayor telling CNN last night she will review the video today.

MAYOR JENNIFER ROBERTS, (D) CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA: There are different perspectives and different videos. There are a couple different body cameras and some dash cameras. There may be some community videos. We want to have clear, irrefutable evidence. We're working very hard to make that accessible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANDOVAL: So when or even if that video will actually be released, that is still a question here on the streets of Charlotte, and particularly after the mayor actually gets to see that footage firsthand, speak to people here. Alisyn, there are high hopes that when that footage is released it could calm some of those concerns. But then you hear people on the other side of the spectrum who worry that if it does, in fact, support this claim from officers, that it could just fuel some of the flames and even some of those frustrations as protesters are expected to be on the streets again tonight.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Polo we're about to get some answers because we are about to speak to a man who has seen that video that has not been released to the public. What does it show? Todd Walther is a spokesperson for the Charlotte Fraternal Order of Police. He joins us now. Mr. Walther, thanks so much for being here.

TODD WALTHER, SPOKESMAN, CHARLOTTE FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Good morning, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We just heard from the mayor that there are several different videos. There are some dash cam videos. There were some body camera videos. There might have been some surveillance videos from around the parking lot. Which one did you see?

[08:05:06] WALTHER: Well, Alisyn, what I can say is I have seen one of the dash cam videos, the same one that our chief, Putney, has also viewed.

CAMEROTA: And what did it show you?

WALTHER: Well, what I can say is that this is still an active investigation, like the chief has echoed. There's some information that just cannot be released because it is still an active investigation. I can confirm exactly what Chief Putney has said. Mr. Scott was armed when he exited the vehicle. A weapon was recovered. A handgun was recovered on the scene next to Mr. Scott. And that's exactly the same thing that I saw what Steve Putney saw.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Walther, take us through it because we have a lot of questions about the details. Was Mr. Scott sitting in his car when officers approached him on the video?

WALTHER: Well, again, Alisyn, with the investigation going on, I can't go into detail from my view what I saw on the video. I don't want to harm the investigation in any way because we want to be just and right in this investigation.

CAMEROTA: Well, look, Mr. --

WALTHER: I can only echo again what's already been said is he was seated in when he was approached, but when he exited that vehicle, he was given clear commands to drop the weapon, and he did not do that. So he was armed when he came out of that vehicle and refused to listen to officers.

CAMEROTA: Can you tell us exactly what the officers said to him when he got out of the vehicle?

WALTHER: It's common practice across the country. You identify yourself as a police officer. If there's any type of weapon -- these officers were telling Mr. Scott to drop the weapon. Just like through any kind of training across the country, it's clear, it's loud, there's no mistaking of what he's being told, to drop the weapon. CAMEROTA: What did Mr. Scott say to the officers?

WALTHER: That I don't know. There is no -- I couldn't hear anything of that. But like I said, it's still part of the investigation. Our investigation team is very professional. They're going to do a great job and look into every detail. They're interviewing everybody out there. And, you know, this is not Charlotte. This is outside entities. These are criminals that are coming in doing this violence. They can't be called protesters. These are criminals that are doing this violence.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Walther, here's an important point that we're hoping you can answer. Was the approaching officer, the first officer who approached Mr. Scott, was he a plain-clothed police officer, or was he in uniform?

WALTHER: No, all the officers out there, both uniform, were uniformed and they were identified by a vest or jacket, identifying themselves as officers. Police just, like the chief said in his press conference, that had a big logo across their chest of police, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department. There's no mistaking of who they were.

CAMEROTA: OK, because we had heard conflicting reports of this. In fact we had heard that the police officer who actually shot Mr. Scott was not in uniform because he wasn't wearing a body cam. And the reason he wasn't wearing a body cam was because he was not in uniform, he was in plain clothes. So you're saying no, not an undercover officer?

WALTHER: They may have been in plain clothes is what I'm saying. Some of the officers were. But they were still wearing what we call a flak vest over that shirt or coat which identifies them as an officer. It has police written right across the chest and right across the back of it. There's no mistaking that these were officers.

CAMEROTA: So that -- and you say that you saw Mr. Scott on the video with a gun. That gun, police say, has been recovered. Can you tell us about that gun? Is it -- was it registered to Mr. Scott?

WALTHER: That's information I just don't have, Alisyn. I can -- and even if I did, it's part of the investigation that the department can't release.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Walther it sounds like what you're saying is that this video is so unequivocal, that if it were released to the public or to the media or certainly to Mr. Scott's family, that it actually could answer some questions, and it could, perhaps, justify what the police did. So why not release this video so that everybody can see it?

WALTHER: Well that's -- that's a decision that's above me. That will have to be discussed through the city attorneys --

CAMEROTA: But do you support -- you were the form president of the fraternal order of police. Do you support releasing this video to answer some questions? WALTHER: To answer some questions, it could, yes. What I would say,

though, is that you're still going to have that entity that's going to pick the video apart, and put it out there that this was done wrong or that was done wrong. The clear facts will come out, and the truth will come out.

[08:10:08] CAMEROTA: And, and, Mr. Walther --

WALTHER: It's unfortunate to say that we he have to be patient. But that's the way it's going to have to be.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Walther, do you see something done wrong when you watch that video?

WALTHER: No. I do not.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Walther --

WALTHER: I think that everything -- go ahead.

CAMEROTA: Well, look, I mean I don't have to tell you you're standing in front of a vandalized building. This could help quell the violence if people were able to get some answers. Part of the problem is the lack of transparency. Can you press the police to release the video?

WALTHER: We will stand behind and support Chief Putney and the city's decision. Whether or not they release it or do not release, that's the FOP stand at this point.

I'll echo and say again that this damage and violence is being done by criminals for the majority that are coming outside. These are not protesters. Protesters have a cause to -- for communication and transparency. These are not protesters. These are criminals that are coming out and doing the damage here in Charlotte. Most of them have -- I mean, why are you looting a store? That's not getting your message across. That's stealing. That's doing damage to a community here. And these are people that are not from Charlotte that's doing this.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Mr. Todd Walther from the Charlotte Fraternal Order of Police, thank you for coming on and sharing what

you have seen with us.

WALTHER: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: The problem is two things could be true. You can have rioters who aren't there for legitimate protest purpose who are looting, and you can have a huge breach in trust because of the lack of transparency with that community.

Let's discuss that with Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. Last year as you'll remember her city saw violent protest and riots after a black man, Freddie Gray, died in police custody. Mayor, thank you for joining us this morning. The videotape matters. You just heard the spokesperson for the

Fraternal Order of Police there in Charlotte saying, you know, you put it out, it gets picked apart. We want this to come out the right way at the right time. What is your take on the transparency value of video and when it should be made available?

MAYOR STEPHANIE RAWLINGS-BLAKE, BALTIMORE: I think your question speaks to a larger issue, and that's the fact that there's just no trust. There's a lot of anger. Our country is at a boiling point when it comes to race relations, when it comes to community police relations. And there's no trust. People don't trust the police. People don't trust politicians. People don't trust the media.

And when you mix all of those things together in a very volatile situation, like we have in Baltimore, like we had in -- like we have in Charlotte, we've seen in other parts of the country, it's just no good for anyone.

What I can say is what I've heard repeatedly from the families of those -- of the victims in custody that -- or you know, people who've lost a family at the hands of the police is they want peace. They want to be able to peacefully determine the facts and let the criminal justice system play its course. And that's what I would ask for -- that's what I asked in Baltimore. And that's what I ask in Charlotte. Because once these things are destroyed, you're destroying the businesses, you're destroying the stores. In the heat of the moment that damage is done and it's going to take a while for the community to repair itself.

CUOMO: Right. But you get to the how. How do you repair, transparency, seeing it for yourself. This isn't like Freddie Gray. You had cellphone video there that based on what you saw rendered by the justice system gave a deceptive notion of what was happening and what his distress was and what it was caused by if you look at the outcomes of the trials that you've had to this point.

But here, this is very fact sensitive. This is about whether or not he had a gun on a very basic level. The video would show that. Do you not believe that the value of that disclosure would require the authorities to put the video out?

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: I think we're all speculating as to what the video will actually show. But what I'm -- what I'm continue to emphasize is just like the FOP representative said, you know, you can see different things different ways. But at the bottom of it is the fact that there's -- we live in a time when there's so little trust. So someone can look at a video and see something different than someone else. But we have to let the system play itself out.

I don't know what the video shows. You don't know what the video shows. The officer that spoke only knows what one of the videos shows. But when you -- when you are existing in these conditions as we have now, it's tinder box. And I think the Mayor Roberts is doing a great time talking about the fact that she wants transparency. She wants to get those things out. But she's also going to be careful about how she does it because she understands as I did in Baltimore that it's a volatile situation every minute of the when something like this goes on.

[08:15:08] CUOMO: Right. But how does controlling transparency increase trust?

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: It's not controlling transparency. They're looking through the video. There are many different -- we've heard from the police chief, from the mayor, from the police union, and you've acknowledged that there are many different videos. They are analyzing it. They are doing the investigation. But the primary focus should be on making sure that the criminal justice system has what they need to be able to make the determination about what steps should be taken next.

CUOMO: Right, but it's not -- it's not that simple as a thoroughness analysis here because unlike in Baltimore you have a state law passed here in North Carolina to not allow public dissemination of the videos which some argue was a nod to the police, although I know many police who want video brought out they think it helps their case. That law doesn't go in effect until October 1st. So there's no official restriction on this and again, I know people can see things different ways. We deal with it with eyewitness testimony all the time let alone video.

But this is about two very different accounts. One is he's reading a book waiting for his kid. The other is he exited the vehicle with a weapon. That is something that shouldn't be sliced so many different ways by perspective, no?

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: I don't disagree. But we're also presupposing what that video will show. What I'm suggesting is that the -- where we are as a country requires us to do the work underneath of all of that. Yes, we need to see the video. Yes, you know, I don't have an opinion on the law in North Carolina because, you know, in Baltimore we work very hard to put body cameras in place.

We worked to make sure we worked with the ACLU, worked with the FOP, worked with community groups to make sure that our rules and regulations about those videos made it possible for there to be the type of transparency that we want to see now and into the future. But what I'm saying is that the -- the fact that we are living in times where it's so volatile, we have to get working on those underlying issues in order to prevent, number one, something like this from happening again, but what are we doing about use of force nationally?

What are we doing to bring community and the FOP together at the table to talk about how we can work better together so we can have the safe communities that we want. We have significant problems in this community around race, around police-community relations, and if we're going to continue to play these sort of these blame games and follow oh, it's transparency here. It's you know, it's -- it's this issue here instead of really focusing on the systemic issues, we've got to get to work and it's not going to be easy but that's going to be how we'll make sure that these incidents don't happen again in the future.

CUOMO: There's no question, Mayor, that every time we have one of these cases they're a reflection of a lot of other problems that lie underneath.

Thank you very much for your perspective. Appreciate you having you on today.

RAWLINGS-BLAKE: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump drawing criticism for saying black communities are in their worst shape ever. So we'll look at the facts. Does he have a point or is he flat wrong?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:20:47] CAMEROTA: Race and policing now major issues on the campaign trail. Donald Trump's recent comments are also raising some eyebrows. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Our African-American communities are absolutely in the worst shape that they've ever been in before. Ever, ever, ever. You take a look at the inner cities. You get no education. You get no jobs. You get shot walking down the street. They're worse -- I mean, honestly, places like Afghanistan are safer than some of our inner cities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So is Donald Trump right? Are things worse than ever before for African-Americans?

Joining us now to discuss this is Pastor James Davis in Cleveland. He's a Donald Trump supporter. We also have Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed, he has endorsed Hillary Clinton.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

PASTOR JAMES DAVIS, PASTOR, NEW SPIRIT RENEWAL CENTER: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Pastor Davis, things are the worst they've ever been for African-Americans? Explain.

DAVIS: Well, I would say so. I would say the report card is in for -- especially for the last eight years under the Obama administration. Nearly 95 percent of African-Americans voted for him in lockstep fashion, and 63 percent of them said that the economy was their number one issue. And so now we see that poverty is at an all-time high underneath this administration. And if we look at cities across America for the last 15 years --

CAMEROTA: But -- but the poverty rate has actually dropped.

DAVIS: Well --

CAMEROTA: The poverty rate has dropped. DAVIS: Yes, in respect of blacks. OK. The people that we're

speaking of right now, the poverty rate has increased underneath the Obama administration. Not to mention median incomes. The wealth gap is somehow eight times more for whites than it is blacks. All these things under the liberal administrations and for the last 50 years we have been lockstep fashion, you know, 90 percent, 95 percent of us going to vote for Democrats.

MAYOR KASIM REED (D), ATLANTA: This is amazing.

DAVIS: I have been personally. But lockstep fashion.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: We put these liberals in office.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: And they have proven themselves inept.

CAMEROTA: OK, let me get --

DAVIS: And so -- and then to add to that is the violence.

CAMEROTA: We hear you. OK. So let's get the mayor in. How do you see it, Mr. Mayor?

REED: I said not surprisingly Donald Trump is lying and this pastor is clearly misinformed. The unemployment rate for black people under the employment -- under the Obama administration dropped from a high of more than 15.5 percent to about where it is now which is about 8 percent. They're about three points higher --

DAVIS: It's 10 percent. It's 10 percent and it's 5 percent --

REED: No, that's not true.

DAVIS: It is.

REED: That's not true. You don't know what you're talking about.

DAVIS: No, you don't know what you're talking about.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: OK. Hold on, wait, wait, wait, gentlemen.

REED: Wait a minute, I let you spoke.

CAMEROTA: Hold on one second.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, let me get in for one second.

REED: I let you spill your ignorance. CAMEROTA: Because, Pastor, please --

REED: And I'm going to -- I'm going to speak.

CAMEROTA: But hold on, I will let you speak.

REED: The fact of the matter is --

CAMEROTA: Mr. Mayor, I will let you speak, but I just want to say something because the pastor's saying that that's not true. These are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. These are real numbers, Pastor. The unemployment rate has been cut in half. OK. These are factual numbers. Go ahead, Mr. Mayor.

DAVIS: They're facts. Yes. But the fact is that --

REED: So once -- that's right.

DAVIS: This is the Clinton News Network and --

REED: So the fact of the matter is --

DAVIS: The fact of the matter is --

REED: See, the pastor is doing what Donald Trump does -- lies.

DAVIS: OK.

REED: So the fact of the matter is the pastor just came on television --

DAVIS: OK. No, you're the one --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Hold on. Guys.

REED: The national average --

CAMEROTA: I can't hear you and neither can the viewers.

DAVIS: The national rate for whites is 4.5 so we're still twice the amount of our counterparts. It's worse for blacks. The point is that it's worse for blacks.

CAMEROTA: Pastor, nobody -- hold on, Pastor. Nobody is saying that it's worse for blacks. It's whether or not it's the worst ever. Are blacks experiencing the worst they've --

DAVIS: That's a euphemism. It's the worst it's been underneath this administration with these liberals in office.

REED: That's not even true. The fact of the matter is --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: OK. Pastor, you've made your point. You've made your point. Go ahead, Mr. Mayor.

REED: It's 3 percent higher than the white unemployment rate. If you look at a 20-year trend that's the case. You notice that when Donald Trump says these things, he's saying it to a white audience. Even his insults, even his false appeal, which everyone agrees Donald Trump's not trying to appeal to black people. Even his false appeal where he says things where blacks are worse than ever, worse than slavery, worse than Jim Crow, they're designed to make other people feel like they're still better off than someone else.

[08:25:03] CAMEROTA: OK.

REED: It's Donald Trump's classic effort to divide.

CAMEROTA: Pastor -- Pastor, a couple of more details -- I just want to pull up a couple more details.

REED: So he's going to be a national embarrassment.

CAMEROTA: So that we get some context, Pastor, before you respond.

DAVIS: It's the same old -- it's the same old victim speech I've heard his speech coming out of the left. I've heard this speech a thousand times. Same old, same old.

CAMEROTA: Pastor, a couple more metrics to show you.

DAVIS: Yes, ma'am.

CAMEROTA: The dropout rate is down among African-Americans from 1990, 13.2 percent to now 7.4. The black-white education gap was at 6.2 percent in 2000. Now 2.2 percent. It looks as though the trend lines, Pastor, are going in the right direction. What's your response?

DAVIS: The response is, is that we at this point, if you look at the inner cities in certain areas, you could have these numbers, but the bottom line is, we need school choice. We have to pull the education system and put it back in the neighborhood and get it out of these unions' hands, and the rest of it because at the end of the day, irrespective of the numbers, it's too slow. It's not enough. It's too little, too late.

So you finally get the down trend and then the president goes out and has his victory -- takes this victory lap over $250 increase in monthly income for the last eight years when inflation pretty much ate that in full.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: And so now -- and so now we sit here with saying that mediocrity is wonderful.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: And we're not saying -- you know we can't bring this administration into accountability.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: And that's what my counterpart, Mr. Mayor --

CAMEROTA: So that's a different point. I mean, that's -- OK, hold on, Pastor, let Mr. Mayor respond. Go ahead.

REED: -- you going to let the pastor sit and do his interrupted diatribes. The unemployment rate has been cut in half. More black people are graduating from high school than ever before. More black people are in college than ever before.

DAVIS: It's cut in half.

REED: Ten percent more --

CAMEROTA: Hold on, Pastor. Come on. Let the mayor speak for a moment. Go ahead, Mr. Mayor.

REED: Ten percent more black people in the United States have health insurance than ever before. The fact of the matter is, if you look at the statistics that we measure how well people are doing by, black people have done better in the last eight years than they did in the previous 20.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DAVIS: I'll give you -- I'll give you an unscientific -- an unscientific --

REED: I'm sure you will give me an unscientific because you can't give a real answer.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Hold on. Hold on. Guys, I can't hear you. OK. Go ahead -- gentlemen, we can't hear you when you speak over each other. Mr. Mayor. Guys.

REED: I can't wait to see you on election night.

CAMEROTA: Guys, thank you for both of your perspectives.

REED: So you can go back to your congregation.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for the debate. We appreciate --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Thank you, gentlemen. Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right. Hopefully that's not what we're going to see just four days from now when we have the first debate between the two candidates. How will the issues that were just being discussed, these shootings in Charlotte and Tulsa impact the race? David Axelrod gives you an inside take next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)