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Protests Continue in Charlotte over Police Shooting of Black Man; Police Officer Who Shot Unarmed Black Man in Tulsa Indicted for Manslaughter; Crutcher Family Attorney Speaks About Misinformation; Donald or Hillary: Whose Plan About Crime Is Better? Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired September 23, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] MARIA HAMILTON, MOTHER OF DONTRE HAMILTON: We're in a bad place right now. And they're not going to give us what we want. We have to take it. And we do that at the polls. We vote.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Team Trump traveling to the rural eastern part of the state, to the town of Kenansville, with a population of less than 900.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is great to be in North Carolina.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SERFATY: And as the candidates both react to this new situation on the ground in Charlotte, which no doubt will reverberate throughout the state, sources telling CNN that Donald Trump is considering a trip to Charlotte next week after the debate. Chris and Alisyn, his campaign is looking at the logistics of that right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Sunlen, thanks so much for all of that reporting.

We're following a lot of news this morning, so let's get right tot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There must be transparency.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This officer is being protected. This man's life is not protected.

TRUMP: This is a national crisis.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to come together, to turn the tide, stop the violence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The felony crime of manslaughter in the first degree against officer Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby is warranted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terence was not a threat. There was no reason for Terence to be shot down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY.

Up first, Protesters taking to the streets for a third straight night in Charlotte despite a curfew. Peaceful demonstrations, they were chanting, "release the tape," that over the deadly police shooting of Keith Lamont Scott.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: What we had was supposed to be a huge development. Scott's family got to see video from the actual shooting, but they came out of it with a very different account than what we're hearing from the police. This comes as a Tulsa police officer, remember, separate shooting there, that police officer on your screen has been indicted. The debate about policing and race continues.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Nick Valencia live in Charlotte. Nick?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. A welcome sign of relief here, a semblance of normalcy on the streets of downtown Charlotte. This after two nights of riots and chaotic protests. Last night was much different. You might attribute that to the presence of National Guard or perhaps the presence of community leaders in the crowd, but police say last night's protests went smoothly.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Hands up, don't shoot!

VALENCIA: A third night of protests remain largely peaceful Thursday night, despite Charlotte officials enacting a midnight curfew. A small group thanking National Guard members for their service.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, sir.

VALENCIA: Others laying down in protest over the shooting death of Keith Lamont Scott and demanding that police video of the incident be released to the public. Charlotte's police chief concedes the victim doesn't show Scott pointing a gun at officers.

CHIEF KERR PUTNEY, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE: The video does not give me absolute definitive visual evidence that would confirm that a person is pointing a gun. When taken in the totality of all of the other evidence, it supports what we've heard and the version of the truth that we gave about the circumstances that happened.

VALENCIA: Despite that, police are standing by their account of what happened, saying Scott refused to drop his weapon.

MAYOR JENNIFER ROBERTS, (D) CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA: The gun in question is a small gun, and it was not easy to see with the way the motion was happening. So it is ambiguous.

VALENCIA: After massive public outcry, the Scott family saw two police videos capturing the deadly encounter.

JUSTIN BAMBERG, ATTORNEY FOR SCOTT FAMILY: It was very painful, you know, not just to see him shot and killed, but to see the reactions on the rest of the family members' face.

VALENCIA: Attorneys for the family insist they saw no aggregation in the video, issuing a statement, saying, in part, "It is impossible to discern from the videos what, if anything, Mr. Scott is holding in his hands. When he was killed, Mr. Scott's hands were by his side and he was slowly walking backwards." Two wildly different accounts as more evidence is uncovered. This photo taken by an eyewitness appears to show a black object on the ground, which a source close to the investigation says is the gun recovered by authorities.

EDUARDO CURRY, SCOTT FAMILY ATTORNEY: We're just not sure about that photo and other photos that may depict it. We did not see a gun in the video.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They just shot my daddy. He's dead!

VALENCIA: After the shooting, Scott's daughter suggested the gun was planted by the police.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was sitting in the car reading a -- book! My daddy has got no -- gun!

VALENCIA: But police are adamant.

PUTNEY: The preponderance of physical evidence there supports exactly what we made in our initial statement, that, yes, he had a weapon. Yes, he refused to drop that our weapon and our officer fired as he perceived that imminent threat.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:10] VALENCIA: The investigation into the shooting death of Keith Scott is now in the hands of the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation. Yesterday, we spoke to an official who said he had seen some of that police video and said that it was clear to him that Keith Scott made an obvious threat towards police officers which cost him his life. That's not the interpretation the Scott family had after viewing the video. They're demanding the release of the tape so the public can make up their own mind. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Nick, and it gets to be a little bit of a tricky situation. The expectation is that if the video is out there, you get to see for yourself what happened. That assumes that it will be clear. Now earlier on NEW DAY we spoke to the attorney for Keith Scott's family. He has seen the videos that were shown to the family. He told us what he saw and he told us how the family's handling this very difficult situation. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN BAMBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KEITH SCOTT'S FAMILY: You know, it was difficult. It was very painful for them to watch it, but also see their other family members in pain as a result of what they saw. It's my understanding that his wife was actually out there at the time of the original shooting. So this was her chance to, I guess, see the shooting again. But it was very difficult for them.

CUOMO: So the whole point of this is to gain clarity. What did they see in the video?

BAMBERG: Absolutely. You know, all the family wants to know is why this happened and what the -- what the accurate facts are. What we see on the video is Mr. Scott, the officers are yelling commands. He steps out of his vehicle, doesn't appear to be acting aggressive whatsoever. He is not making any quick moves, moving slowly. You know, he doesn't appear to be arguing or yelling at law enforcement. His hands are down by his side. You can see what appears to be some type of object in his hand but he never raises it at any point. Actually, when he's shot, it looks like he's stepping backwards.

So, you know, lot of this is this talk is whether he had a gun, whether he had a book. You know, I know, and those who have been involved in these situations deeply understand the fact that for every person that may have seen something, they're going to have their own viewpoint. That's why we come in and we're not, you know, throwing out accusations. We just want to know the facts. At the end of the day, if it is proven and the evidence supports that he did have a firearm, I can tell you that based on what I saw on those two videos yesterday, I believe it's still questionable as to whether or not he should have been shot and killed.

CUOMO: And listen, there's no question that in legal analysis, just having the weapon alone in an open carry state would not be dispositive of imminent threat. But let's take one step back, if we could, counselor. What started a lot of the tension here was, without judgment, that a family member said, he was reading a book, my father doesn't have a gun. The police then said we recovered a weapon at the scene. We have seen photos that were supposedly put out by some bystander that seems to show an object on the ground that looks like a gun. In the video, do you accept the idea from the police that he was armed at the time, that Mr. Scott was armed?

BAMBERG: Based on the two videos that we saw yesterday, you do not see a gun at any point in either one of those videos. You know, the daughter, of course, she put that video out. She said he had a book. You know, based on his usual pattern, he does sit in that vehicle. He does read a book. His mother has confirmed that. His family has confirmed that.

But, you know, we have to be honest about these situations is, you know, every spouse doesn't know any and everything about their spouse. Every child doesn't know any and everything about their loved one. So, again, if at the end of the day the evidence shows that there was a gun recovered from the scene and that gun was on his person, then we have to deal with that.

But the key point here is the process. It's the transparency. It's the family deserves to know why their loved one was shot and killed. And we need to know all of the facts. And you just kind of analyze things as you move forward.

CUOMO: So, I mean, you have to see the cops showing the family the video is a step in the right direction. But after watching it, what's your best sense of what happened? Do you see the officer involved? Is he in a uniform? Is he not? You know, what is your perspective that you got to see in the video?

BAMBERG: Well, my perspective, when you look at the video, you've also got to go back to the fact that they -- why were they interacting with him at all in the first place?

[08:10:00] It's our understanding, and they have said that they were out in that location to serve a warrant on someone who was not him. So I don't know why they were aggressive towards him.

But looking at the video, there are still plenty of questions. You know, he was not aggressive, again. He didn't appear to be combative. He didn't appear to be yelling anything at the officers. And quite frankly, he looked a tad bit confused. And that may have been because in these situations, you get multiple officers located in multiple positions yelling multiple commands. I don't know. I was not there with hum. And, again, when he was shot, it appears as though he was stepping backwards. I don't know many people who want to go on the offensive of moving in the opposite direction.

CUOMO: Did you get to see the officers in the video?

BAMBERG: You can actually see pretty clearly two officers who were located on the opposite side of a pickup truck, I guess using that as cover, looking at the vehicle Mr. Scott was in. You can kind of see the alleged shooter in the corner of the dash-cam footage. But, you know, it's not really that clear --

CUOMO: Could you tell they were cops?

BAMBERG: You know, I don't know. Hindsight is 20/20. When I look at this, I see people in plainclothes wearing a vest. I can't make out anything that may be on that vest. It's unclear as to what Mr. Scott may have been able to see from his viewpoint. So I don't know. I don't know if they identified themselves as police. All I know is that when that dash cam cut on, when that body cam is on, Mr. Scott is in his car, and shortly thereafter he steps out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: So interesting to hear all of the different takes and the different perspective on the video. We think, well, if they release the video that will solve the question. Not necessarily.

CUOMO: No. And eyewitness testimony is always tough. Watching these videos is tough. What's the angle? A lot of them have no sound, right. That's huge for two reasons. One, that means if there is no sound, you're never going to have objective balance on that. You're going to have to take the testimony of those who were at the scene, largely the officers. The other thing you have to remember is, well, what are we -- what are we trying to figure out? We're trying to figure o if you can make a case that this was wrong beyond a reasonable doubt.

CAMEROTA: And that's the legal case. I'm trying to figure out if he had a gun. That's it. I'm just trying to figure out if he had a gun. And the fact that all the different perspectives are not even clear on that, they can't tell exactly what he had in his hand. We can't tell if it was planted or not planted.

CUOMO: The lawyer says that they couldn't. The police have been very clear from the beginning that they recovered a gun, there was a gun, and the testimony is that there was a gun.

CAMEROTA: The mayor who has saw it said she's unclear on what he had in his hand. So there are still questions even for people who have seen it. Anyway, that's Charlotte.

Now, the Tulsa police officer who shot and killed that unarmed black man earlier this week is freed this morning on $50,000 this morning. Officer Betty Shelby, though, is now facing felony manslaughter charges. Ana Cabrera is live in Tulsa with the latest. Good morning, Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good Friday morning, Alisyn. We know more than 50 people were interviewed, pictures, video, all analyzed, the entire investigation complete and charges brought just six days after the fatal shooting. This morning, the Crutcher family is calling this a small victory.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby turning herself and released on bond overnight, charged with the shooting death of 40- year-old Terence Crutcher.

DAMARIO SOLOMON-SIMMONS, ATTORNEY FOR CRUTCHER'S FAMILY: We know that nothing that happens, not charges, not convictions, not sentencing, nothing will bring Terence back.

STEVE KUNZWEILER, TULSA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I determined that the filing of the federal crime of manslaughter in the first-degree against Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby is warranted.

CABRERA: The felony manslaughter charge coming less than a week after the shooting was captured on this police helicopter video. Crutcher, walking with his hands up just moments before he's gunned down by Shelby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shots fired!

CABRERA: The prosecutor's office alleging Officer Shelby reacted unreasonably by escalating the situation from a confrontation with Mr. Crutcher who was not responding to verbal commands and was walking away from her with his hands up, becoming emotionally involved to the point that she overreacted. Shelby told investigators she feared Crutcher was reaching into his car, potentially for a weapon. No weapon was found at the scene.

SCOTT WOOD, BETTY SHELBY'S ATTORNEY: She thought if she didn't take action right then, everyone would be in peril of serious bodily harm or death.

SOLOMON-SIMMONS: All we know is what we saw in the video. We didn't see any point of Mr. Crutcher, Terence, being noncompliant.

CABRERA: Crutcher's family attorneys questioning the officer's story by pointing to an enhanced picture of the window.

[08:15:00]

BENJAMIN CRUMP, CRUTCHER FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: You can see that it is completely up and there is blood going almost to the top of the window.

CABRERA: CNN has independently analyzed the video, frame by frame, zooming in. It does appear that the window is up and that a reflection of his arms in the window is visible.

TIFFANY CRUTCHER, VICTIM'S SISTER: We're demanding full prosecution. We want a conviction and when that happens, this is a small victory. But we know we gotta get ready to fight this war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Now manslaughter in the first degree is a very serious charge carrying a possible penalty of four years, up to life in prison, if convicted. We reached out to the attorney for Officer Shelby. We have not heard back from him this morning.

I also want to point out that while the video may seem conclusive, experts say it is never the only evidence presented at trial. Chris and Alisyn?

CUOMO: Ana thank you very much, appreciate it. Race, policing, hot topics on the campaign trail. Who has a plan for change? Who is showing leadership in this situation? We have the supporters of the candidates, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: In the wake of our national conversation about policing and racial injustice, Donald Trump -- a self-proclaimed law and order candidate -- is promising an anti-crime agenda. Hillary Clinton is also calling for police reform. Who's handled this situation better this week? Who has the better plan? Let's discuss.

CNN Political Commentator and Vice Chair of the New York State Democratic Party, Christine Quinn. And CNN Political Commentator and Trump Supporter, Kayleigh McEnany. Christine, why has Hillary Clinton handled this recent spate of shootings better than Trump?

CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well I think she's -- pardon me -- handled it better because she realizes what's happened this week is connected to all of the things that came before it. And that this really reflects a tremendous breakdown in our entire criminal justice system.

And you have to look at it -- you have to obviously respond, as you guys have been talking about this morning, correctly to these shootings. And where (ph) -- that is (ph) happening now in the justice process. But you have to look more broadly.

So when Secretary Clinton calls to reform the entire criminal justice system with a particular focus on prisons -- and is the only candidate really talking about that, although we have about 5 percent of the world's population in the United States, we have 25 percent of the criminal population -- those in jail.

And her calls to change who's going to jails, to change how we're dealing with low level offenders will change how the police are interacting with communities, and be a core to reducing the adversarial disconnect that is part of what's fueling what we see this week, and what we've seen, sadly, for quite some time.

CAMEROTA: Kayleigh, what do you think is wrong with that approach?

[08:21:21]

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well first of all, the reason we have so many people incarcerated is in large part due to the Clinton administration, and the crime bill, and the super predator terminology that came out from Hillary Clinton, herself. So that's part of it.

But when I sit back, we need to -- someone who's going to unify this country. I think this country's never been so divided. You have Hillary Clinton calling half of the country deplorable or desperate. Meanwhile you have Donald Trump ...

CAMEROTA: Half of his supporters, half of Trump's supporters, half of ...

MCENANY: Half of Trump's supporters, which is about 30, 40, we'll see, I think over 50 percent of the country. We'll see. But stepping back from that, Donald Trump said something very important, I think, in the wake of these shootings. He said, "we need to learn to walk in the other person's shoes, to see through the eyes of the other person." And Donald Trump, I think, has endeavored to do that.

When the Sandra Bland incident happened, he was the only GOP candidate to speak out about that and say this was a terrible situation, that woman was treated horribly. In the wake of this most recent shooting in Tulsa, he stepped back and said this was a troubling incident to him. He is seeing the other side and he's also supporting officers. He's really trying to bring people together. Hillary Clinton was best (ph) on this issue and quite honestly silent on it when Donald Trump was trying to bring the two sides together.

CUOMO: Distinguish Kayleigh...

QUINN: First off ...

CUOMO: ... hold on a second. Distinguish Kayleigh, why he is bringing sides together and not inflaming both sides. If you track over time, when we had the last rash of shootings, Trump was all-in for the police. Saying that "Black Lives Matter" were making it worse. That these were -- he was being negative in his classification of what was happening on the streets.

Then in this situation, before we know anything about what's going on, he says that the officer choked. Then he says that he's out there for the blacks, you're living in the worst situation you ever have -- which is patently false. He then says, and the solution in a place like Chicago, is stop and frisk.

QUINN: Correct (ph) ...

CUOMO: ... Which those communities don't like, and already have in Chicago.

QUINN: And is unconstitutional.

CUOMO: So, hold on a second. So -- it depends on how it's applied -- however -- so is that ping-ponging unifying?

MCENANY: No, I don't think he's ping-ponging. I think he's objectively analyzing situations. What happened in Tulsa, he was correct about that. This officer was charged, you know, she has her day in court ...

CUOMO: We do not know that she choked.

MCENANY: She has her ...

CUOMO: She's been indicted, we do not know what happened, let alone ...

MCENANY: She will have her day in court, but I contrast that to the Obama administration with Ferguson where there was a rush to judgment, he demonized a private citizen, he sent Eric Holder there, he stoked tensions. Ferguson burned and this country's never been more divided. We need someone who's going to unify us. I think Donald Trump is objectively looking at situations and that is what we need.

QUINN: First of all we do need someone who's going to unify us, and that's Hillary Clinton. And if it wasn't Hillary Clinton, let's be very clear -- but it is Hillary Clinton -- Donald Trump is the last person in the universe who is going to be able to bring us together.

We see in this case, as you just said, him rushing to judgment. We see him saying that African and Caribbean Americans are in the worst situation they've ever been in. Totally negating slavery, Jim Crow, the entire civil rights fight that goes on. This is a man who has spoken down to the African American community, attacked -- and the way you treat one community reflects how you treat others.

Look at how he's treated Mexican and Latino immigrants, and women. This is a man who's based his entire campaign, quite frankly, on divisive rhetoric that has split us apart. And then you look at the people who are part of the campaign apparatus. And again, like you mother told you, you are who you hang around with.

And you have people on his campaign who have been heads and said completely racist statements, have been associated with white supremacist groups. You have Tim, the Vice Presidential candidates, Governor Pence, being unwilling on CNN to call David Duke deplorable. He is ...

CAMEROTA: Because he said he doesn't call names.

MCENANY: This is the perfect (ph) ...

QUINN: But he could have said he ...

MCENANY: This is the ...

QUINN: But wait, he could've then said his -- something about his views and his -- and he didn't. He chose to say nothing.

CAMEROTA: OK I want to let Kayleigh in.

MCENANY: First of all, it's a perfect example of what's wrong with the Clinton campaign. When Donald Trump is going into black communities trying to court what are traditionally Hillary Clinton or Democratic voters, he is trying to bridge the divide and bring people to his side. While Hillary Clinton is just ostracizing the other side saying it's not even worth my time, they're deplorable. Apparently we're all racist, xenophobic, homophobic, all of the words that she used.

She is demonizing part of the country, half, a third, whatever you want to call it. Donald Trump is rolling into communities and trying to bring people to ...

QUINN: But wait, no, no, but let's be honest. There are people associated with the Trump campaign who are those things. MCENANY: There are people associated with the Hillary Clinton

campaign ...

QUINN: Yeah, I get that you aren't racist, but (ph) ...

CAMEROTA: We're talking about supporters who support the campaign. I don't know if we win that one because there's obviously deplorable people who can support any candidate. But I do want to show one thing, Kayleigh, which I think that will be a challenge for your side and Donald Trump. And that is the latest Quinnipiac poll about bigotry.

So even if Donald Trump is trying now to reach across the aisle, and saying things that he empathizes with walking in people's shoes -- here it is, does Trump's talk appeal to bigotry, still? 61 percent of respondents, across the board, think yes. That's a challenge.

[08:26:16]

MCENANY: Well I think Hillary Clinton has succeeded at falsely caricaturing supporters, the candidates, the movement. I think she's wrong about that. I think when people sit down and look at what Donald Trump offers, they see that this isn't someone who's trying to divide. He's just being characterized as such.

And that -- how that helps our country come together -- what we saw in Charlotte, that was tragic, that was sad. How what she's done bridges the divide, it's -- I'm at a loss.

QUINN: A man who ...

CUOMO: Last point.

QUINN: ... disregards slavery, disregards Jim Crow, who tells ...

MCENANY: He does not disregard slavery.

QUINN: Who tells African Americans ...

MCENANY: I'm pretty sure the Democratic Party (ph).

QUINN: Tells African Americans that they have nothing to lose, as if their life has no merit. Who vilifies Mexican Americans, who attacks immigrants, that's not the Clinton campaign misrepresenting him. And let's give voters some credit. They're not somehow spun into a position on what Donald Trump is or isn't, related to bigotry.

They've looked at the facts, they've made that decision. Those are Americans seeing what they see, and calling it what it is.

MCENANY: No, this is a false caricature that you've created. And it --

QUINN: Americans are not unintelligent.

MCENANY: This is ...

CAMEROTA: OK last word, Kayleigh.

QUINN: Americans are not unintelligent.

MCENANY: This race is in an absolute dead heat. If Donald Trump was as bad as you said, you'd have former employees on the air, coming out and supporting what you're saying. You don't have that, instead you say ...

QUINN: He is that bad.

MCENANY: You have people coming out saying, "he elevated me in the company. He has elevated people of all races and all (inaudible).

QUINN: People that still work there. MCENANY: People who still work there and have a paycheck, he's fine (ph).

CAMEROTA: All right, people we're going to leave it there Christine and Kayleigh, thank you.

MCENANY: OK.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for being here. The election is now 46 days away and every day on the trail counts. Who won the week? Who won this week in politics? Our Political Director, David Chalian, is going to break it down, next.

[08:27:53]

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