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Trump & Clinton To Face Off Tonight; Plans For Prosperity: Clinton Vs. Trump; Who Should Fact-Check The Debate?; How Many Viewers Will Watch Tonight's Debate? Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 26, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: We're about 13 hours away from the biggest moment of this presidential race, period. All hype is justified. Trump and Clinton in their first debate tonight and guess what? It is going to be a battle of style, but also fact. So what are we going to see in terms of the preparation that goes into the performance for tonight and who will fact-check the candidates? It better be the moderator.

So let's discuss with CNN political commentator and former Donald Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, still receiving severance from the Trump campaign. And, CNN political commentator and vice chair of the New York State Democratic Party, Christine Quinn. Good to have you both.

CHRISTINE QUINN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, there.

CUOMO: Help me understand this, brother Lewandowski. What is the problem with a moderator fact-checking? What else is he going to do there, his taxes all night long?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, taxes.

QUINN: Whoa.

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, hey, let's not raise that issue.

CUOMO: What's wrong with fact-checking? Sean Spicer, spokesperson and strategist for the RNC, is -- we're going back and forth about it on Twitter. Well, what's the concern?

LEWANDOWSKI: OK, I don't there's a concern with fact-checking. I think what the concern is from both of the campaigns, and what it should be, is that the moderator is not the person who's running for President of the United States.

So I think you let the candidates debate, you let the candidates answer. You can hold people accountable, there's no question, but I don't think it's the role of the moderator to inject themselves in so that they're making themselves part of the debate structure and have people talking about the moderator after the debate. People should be talking about what the candidates say. And let the candidates lay out their vision for America and let the people decide.

CAMEROTA: OK. Then how do we get the facts?

QUINN: Well look, I think that's the position of the Trump campaign because Donald Trump is known in his speaking appearances, in past debates, in interviews, to continually put out information that is factually incorrect. So if you had a candidate that does that -- and there's a long list of Pinocchio's and every campaign has them, I'll admit that -- but the list of Mr. Trump's is far longer than any usual candidate in this situation. So, of course, that would be your perspective.

Now, I agree with Corey. You don't want a moderator who becomes the story. But if a moderator allows a candidate to go on and on putting out factually incorrect statements and factually incorrect attacks against their opponent, then they are the story because they have let a presidential debate become a liefest, and that is not fair to the American people.

And there's a way good journalists can be balanced about saying that's actually incorrect but not get into an argument with the candidate. And that's what I hope we see tonight because to just let lies fly and think if you say a lie three times over it becomes a fact --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUINN: -- is not good for America.

CAMEROTA: Corey, is Donald Trump doing a head fake to everybody about not preparing? I mean, that has so become the narrative. He's not preparing, he's eschewing all sorts of preparation. Isn't he preparing and just maybe the campaign is underselling it somehow?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well look, I think -- I can tell you from the 11 debates that I was involved with prepping Mr. Trump, he was very prepared for those debates. And the narrative was he's not going to be prepared. He's on the debate stage with the greatest debaters in the history of the Republican Party, and the futures, and the Princeton debate champion, and Donald Trump dominated in those debates.

CAMEROTA: And how did he prepare for those debates that you witnessed?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I think it's the same preparation that he's using now, which is conversation. Talking with experts in their respective fields, understanding the issues, making sure he's got briefing documents on issues that he wants to know more about.

But he's also prepared for the last 40 years of his life and getting ready for a day like this is a big day for anybody. You've got 100 million people, potentially, who are going to tune in and one of the next two people who's going to be the President of the United States is going to be standing on that stage tonight. I think it's a big day for everybody.

But I also think you have to remember what Hillary Clinton has to do here is she has to become human, and I mean that in a good way. She has to connect with people because I think what happens is people see her as -- look, she knows the issues, there's no question about that, but what she doesn't have is that compassion that people see. And I think if she's going to be successful tonight she has to relate to people on a different level. And the expectation of Donald Trump as not preparing, I think he'll exceed that expectation.

QUINN: Well, clearly he meant that as a nice thing, Corey. Look, I hope Donald Trump's preparing because you should be preparing to partake in a debate to be the President of the United States.

CAMEROTA: Well, he is preparing for it.

QUINN: And we've seen -- but he tells everyone else he's not. So why do you want people to think, if you're a candidate, whether you are or you aren't, that you're not when it's such an important thing.

CUOMO: Because politicians are seen as canned and phony and practic (ph).

QUINN: And Donald Trump is seen as a man who wasn't even clear on the state of what countries Russia had annexed. These are important issues. Donald Trump is a man who doesn't seem to understand the history and significance of NATO. I'm not saying he should go up there and become some shy, reserving wallflower, but he should know the facts.

And look, there's a lot of things people might say on the Trump campaign about Sec. Clinton, but you cannot say she does not know the issues on an in-depth level that --

CAMEROTA: But couldn't it --

QUINN: -- really has her prepared to lead successfully.

CAMEROTA: OK, so if you think he's going run circles -- she's going to run circles around him in terms of facts and policy, then are you nervous about tonight?

QUINN: Of course, I'm nervous. I'd be an idiot if I didn't -- wasn't nervous. This morning, a person I --

[07:35:00] CUOMO: What are you nervous about?

QUINN: -- hold great -- close to my heart who I admire tremendously is --

CUOMO: But what --

QUINN: -- debating.

CUOMO: What makes you nervous?

CAMEROTA: Yes, what makes you nervous?

QUINN: Well, first of all, it's a presidential debate. If you're not nervous, you're not paying attention. You know, I want to make sure Hillary does the best she can. And I think Corey does have a point. Some people find her to be not relatable to. I don't, I've always found her lovely. So she needs to make sure she shows her true self as we've seen so many times on the campaign trail, particularly when she's meeting with or talking with children.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUINN: We've seen that over and over when she was with a mom in Flint, Michigan and her child has learning challenges.

CAMEROTA: Yes, one-on-one that people see that in her but not necessarily on that stage.

QUINN: And that's hard. I mean, that is actually -- having been on debate stages -- not like this, thank God -- and been in interviews.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

QUINN: It can be hard to convey your personal self across to millions. So that's her job tonight and I think she's going to do it well.

CUOMO: One of the interesting points of contrast and I want to, you know -- sometimes you don't want to cheapen a process like this by likening it to sports but a debate, to me, really is a competition. I guess it's -- for me, I see it more as like a prize fight than I do a football game or something like that. But one of the reasons that Clinton is on it the way she's been on it is because she believes that this matters tonight like nothing else.

I can't get that out of the Trump campaign. We had Jason Miller on. He was like oh, there are a lot of debates. Not like this, brother. This is the night. Him and her, the first time they're going to be there. It's never as big an impression the second and third and fourth times. In fact, you could say the first half hour of tonight --

CAMEROTA: Is make or break, yes.

CUOMO: -- may decide this election more than any single event. Does he have that in his head that when I get out there tonight it's no normal night?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think what you have to remember -- it's not even the first hour, it could be the first 15 minutes. The structure and the way this debate is and the real-time work on social media where people are going to be tweeting and talking about this instantly is going to set the narrative for the rest of that debate. So by the time they walk off the stage -- those two candidates -- the narrative will already be set.

CAMEROTA: So what makes you most nervous tonight about Donald Trump, Corey?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, what I think makes everyone nervous -- look, I -- Donald Trump is a big game player, right? If there's 10 seconds left in the game he's the guy who I'm going to give the ball to because he's the guy who's a closer. I understand that. We'd be foolish to think he's not nervous. There's a 100 million people who are going to tune in.

And I have seen how he prepares for things. He is prepared for this debate but, that said, look, the expectation of the media is that he's not going to go make a mistake or he's not going to be -- he has to be presidential or he isn't going to say something insane. You know, look at the 11 debates that he dominated against the Republican field. I think what you're going to see tonight --

QUINN: By name-calling.

LEWANDOWSKI: You will see a Donald Trump who, if attacked, will respond in-kind, times five, and I think that's what he does. And so tonight you'll see a -- you'll see a prepared Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: OK.

QUINN: And just remember, it's always been said that Hillary Clinton floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee.

CAMEROTA (LAUGHING): I haven't heard that in relation to her. Christine, Corey, thank you very much.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

CUOMO: But look, it is true, though, that in a debate the well-timed zinger -- the line -- you know, that one moment can really make the difference. It can make somebody lose their cool. It can spell disaster for a campaign, not just in the debate, but beyond. We're going to look at the proof of what I just said. The big moments in past debates and how, literally, one line can change the course of history.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:40] CAMEROTA: OK, tonight is the epic showdown between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Presidential debates can make or break a candidate and, of course, they can even change the course of history. So let's look at some of the most pivotal moments.

We want to bring in our CNN presidential historians. We have Douglas Brinkley, history professor at Rice University. And Tim Naftali, the former director of the Nixon Presidential Library. Gentlemen, great to have both you here.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It's great to be here.

CAMEROTA: Everyone is on tenterhooks waiting to see if tonight will hold one of those pivotal moments that's -- it will. So let's talk about what you believe are a couple of the pivotal moments that did change the course of history. Tim, tell us about the one that you've identified.

NAFTALI: Well, I identified a moment when Jimmy Carter is looking very tired and old, a man who is even older than he is debating him in 1980. And after Jimmy Carter has, once again, told Ronald Reagan that what he said isn't true -- Ronald Reagan would often talk about what he had done as governor of California -- Reagan turns to him and says "there you go again". And the audience is not supposed to react at all in these -- in these debates and the audience reacts. And at that point, Carter's finished.

CAMEROTA: Let's take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GERALD FORD (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford administration.

JIMMY CARTER (D), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These are the kind of elements of a national health insurance important to the American people. Governor Reagan, again, typically is against such a proposal.

RONALD REAGAN (R), FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Governor, there you go again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, so that was the second one. We'll get to the first one in a moment. But that second one, why was that -- why was "there you go again" such a pivotal moment?

NAFTALI: Well, the reason I thought of it this time is that here is going to be a moment where Donald Trump will say something that Hillary Clinton knows isn't true and she's going to face this challenge of how do you correct somebody without sounding too negative? And what Ronald Reagan did brilliantly, and Doug knows this better than anyone -- what Ronald Reagan did brilliantly was -- he would, in an affable way, put you down.

And that is going to be the challenge for Hillary Clinton because there -- we can predict it. He -- Trump will say a number of things that she will know are not -- are not true. So that's a skill in a debater.

CAMEROTA: So she needs a 'there you go again'.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, and Donald Trump has Roger Ailes and Ailes is the person that worked with Nixon, that worked with Reagan, that worked with George Herbert Walker bush on getting zingers loaded up.

Just because Trump is saying I'm not doing this sort of mock debate I'm holding, doesn't mean he's not creating one-liners to whack Hillary Clinton on about emails. So that was a great scripted moment. And so I'm looking at zingers tonight, prewritten, that's not spontaneous moments but when you unleash your arsenal like that.

CAMEROTA: A phrase like that.

BRINKLEY: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK, so let's look at the one that we played for a second, and this was Gerald Ford when he was asked about the Soviet domination of Europe, so watch this moment.

[07:45:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORD: There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Doug, why was that such a pivotal moment?

BRINKLEY: Because he's the President of the United States at that juncture and he needs to know that Eastern Europe was under Soviet domination. It was a big blunder. He had an opportunity to do a correction, he didn't correct it, and it gave Jimmy Carter stature that maybe Carter can be president.

And that's what people are looking for, for Trump tonight. Carter was a one-term governor from Georgia who was kind of introducing himself as a possible president. He won that debate. Tonight, Trump's trying to say you can imagine me in the Oval Office. I'm not just a buffoon popping off like the Clintonistas that make me seem like it.

CAMEROTA: So, two great examples. So you can make a blunder factually, which is a problem and can change the course of history, or you can come up with sort of a clever catchphrase that people remember and take away from it.

NAFTALI: And, Alisyn, in the case of the Ford blunder, people didn't know it was a blunder immediately. It was the chatter afterwards that made it out to be a huge gaffe. So also, what people are saying tomorrow -- what people say tomorrow will matter a lot.

CAMEROTA: And it might be different than what they feel tonight --

BRINKLEY: Yes. Well, but --

CAMEROTA: -- and these things take a while to marinate, right, Doug?

BRINKLEY: -- in the age of Twitter it will be happening in real-time now.

NAFTALI: Yes.

BRINKLEY: And I also say about 1960 with Kennedy and Nixon, I really think that how you come out immediately, looks are going to matter, and how you're feeling. We've been looking -- is Hillary Clinton sick? I mean, Nixon, in 1960, had leg problems, he wasn't feeling well. He said no to makeup.

CAMEROTA: Big mistake.

BRINKLEY: He was -- big mistake. In fact, Walter Cronkite used to charge extra money on the side to do makeup classes and how to look in a camera, and Nixon never took Cronkite's course. You know who did? John F. Kennedy. So appearance matters a lot. Are you comfortable in your own skin?

CAMEROTA: And we do know that her lectern will be smaller than his so that she doesn't seem dwarfed by the lectern because those optics are important. Are you, either, concerned that he will be graded on a curve? That if he just appears presidential and doesn't make a blunder then people will think he won.

NAFTALI: Well, fortunately, professors are not going to determine what happens. I don't think there's any great -- what Ibelieve -- what this is all about is, in his case, whether he can control himself and show self-discipline.

One thing that he had trouble with during the primaries is that Donald Trump got bored and when there were a lot of people on stage his attention drifted. One of the -- one of the things Roger Ailes used to say to Nixon was don't forget you're always on. George Herbert Walker Bush, in the 1992 town hall, looked at his watch.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

NAFTALI: Donald Trump has got to be very careful not to drift off. Hillary's got to be very careful not to seem to be too critical.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Quickly, Doug.

BRINKLEY: And it's a -- it's a gender fight, too, right? We don't know how Donald Trump's going to be able to deal one-on-one with a woman so that's new in American history. Hillary Clinton's our first.

CAMEROTA: A lot of interesting things to look out for. Gentlemen, thanks so much --

NAFTALI: Thank you.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: -- for walking us through all of them. Let's get to Chris.

CUOMO: It made me nervous just listening to that discussion. So much examination.

All right, it's time for CNN MONEY now. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans has a look at both candidates' economic plans going into tonight's debate. Give us a little cheat sheet for it.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I will. You know, prosperity a man topic of tonight's debate so here's where the candidates stand on the economy.

Hillary Clinton will hike taxes on the wealthy and cut taxes for the middle-class. She wants to help families with universal pre-K and a cap on child care costs. Clinton plans to spend $275 billion on infrastructure. She supports a $15 minimum wage. Donald Trump would cut taxes for most Americans and add a child care deduction. Trump wants to lower the business tax rate to 15 percent from 35 percent. He says he would renegotiate trade deals and says he will spend twice as much as Clinton on infrastructure, Chris.

CUOMO: Christine, thank you very much, very helpful. We want to get in there tonight, understand the debate for what it is. That will help.

So, tonight's debate moderator is "NBC" anchor Lester Holt. Big pressure, big night, but that's what you do the job for, these big moments, right? So what will it take for him to succeed on the stage? I guess the less you talk about him tomorrow, the better.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:35] CUOMO: Big night -- big, big, big, big night. The first presidential debate. All eyes will be on the candidates, of course, but there's someone else up there and they matter a lot -- the moderator, Lester Holt. What sort of expectations are being placed on him? Will he fact-check the candidates or leave it up to them?

Let's discuss with Brian Stelter, CNN senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES". And Mark Preston, CNN Politics executive editor.

Brian, I'll start with you. The general rule is the less of you, the better, when it comes to moderating. You want it to be about the candidate. With this fact-checking it seems to have taken on a little life of its own. What do we know about when a moderator is in that sweet spot of doing the job the right way?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, he has to keep the conversation going, ensure relatively equal time between the candidates. But fact-checking is a hot topic because Trump is a uniquely fact-challenged candidate. Clinton could also stretch the truth on stage but Trump is better known for making more misstatements.

So there are times I think Holt will have to step in. That doesn't mean he has to look at Trump and say you're wrong. He might look at Trump and say what's your source, where'd you get that information, or give Clinton a chance to follow up.

CAMEROTA: It is a dicey proposition for a moderator to insert himself in, even when he hears -- or she -- a falsehood, as we learned from Candy Crowley, who tried to correct Mitt Romney in a moment that then got a lot of play. Let's watch this.

[07:55:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), FORMER GOVERNOR OF MASSACHUSETTS: It took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Get the transcript. CANDY CROWLEY, FORMER CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, DEBATE MODERATOR: It -- he did, in fact, sir. So, let me -- let me call it an act of terror.

OBAMA: Can you say that a little louder, Candy?

CROWLEY: He did call it an act of terror. It did, as well, take -- it did, as well, take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, so what instructive does Lester Holt learn from that moment to do differently?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Look, I mean, as far as that case goes, that was in the moment. You're talking about somebody who had been a reporter her entire life. Her whole career was based upon facts. She was trying to correct something and move along. If you heard it in her voice --

CAMEROTA: And keep it moving.

PRESTON: And keep it moving, right.

CUOMO: And it was something that had been discussed a lot coming into it --

PRESTON: Correct.

CUOMO: -- that Obama was constantly critical of.

PRESTON: Right.

CUOMO: That he was being mischaracterized.

PRESTON: Right. So I think what Lester Holt has to do is exactly what Brian says. There are a couple of things that you can call out on. The Iraq war, for instance. If Donald Trump says well, you know, I was always against it. Well, there's actually audio that shows that you're not.

The economy might be a little bit hard. And I think Janet Brown said this on Brian's show yesterday where, you know, your interpretation of where the economy's going and someone else's interpretation could be a little bit different. I think that's a dicey proposition.

STELTER: Not all lies are created equally, I suppose.

PRESTON: Right.

CAMEROTA: So, I mean, does Lester Holt go for it or not? If he hears something clearly is false --

STELTER: Well, my sources say he's not going to be a potted plant. That he will speak up when he has to. I think -- my prediction, he'll pick a couple of moments where he needs to step in. Otherwise, let the candidates do it themselves.

CUOMO: But look, you also -- you are who you are. I mean, Candy is a very aggressive reporter. She was a tough, tough interviewer. That is not Lester Holt's reputation. You are who you are up on that stage and I think that he has to know that this is as much his night as it is anybody, but he has a different standard. He wants these two to go at it and let this be decided by them. It's like, again, another sports analogy. You never want the ref to decide the game.

PRESTON: Right. But you know what? But, I do think it's important, too, that we're talking so much about the fact-checking, about the fact-checking, about the fact-checking. It doesn't have to happen in those 90 minutes, OK? We've discussed it so much right now. There's going to be so much emphasis on the post-mortem. What was actually said, how's the analysts all going to talk about it tomorrow morning.

CUOMO: And then, the back and forth starts to become obsessed with something that is a false premise.

PRESTON: Right.

CUOMO: Now you have a problem and that's where this becomes a little bit more of an art --

STELTER: Right.

CUOMO: -- than just a skill. If they start arguing about the email situation --

PRESTON: Right.

CUOMO: -- and Trump keeps forwarding something that's not true about it and Clinton is saying well, that's not true, but they keep going at it, then that's the spot --

CAMEROTA: Then he has to step in.

CUOMO: And he's going to have to figure out what he wants to do. Whether you move on, maybe you correct it. It's up to him.

PRESTON: Yes, but you know what do you at the top, though, very quickly? I think at the top of the debate -- I think Lester Holt, perhaps, comes out and says something at the top of the debate to set the tone about how he will act throughout the debate. And by doing so he's putting everyone on notice what exactly he's going to do. That's what my advice would be to him.

CAMEROTA: That would be interesting. Let's talk about the audience predictions, Brian. So some astronomical numbers --

STELTER: Yes, yes.

CAMEROTA: -- have been thrown around, maybe 100 million. Give us some context of what other debates have looked like and what these ratings mean. STELTER: Yes. In 2012, the first Obama-Romney debate was 67 million viewers. I'm expecting 85 million. Some people smarter than me in the T.V. industry think 100 million viewers. The only competition tonight is Monday Night Football. And even ESPN is saying go ahead, watch the debate. Just watch football on your phone. You know, even they know this is the night. This is the show everyone's watching.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STELTER: So, 100 million possible in the U.S., a billion all around the world. And, of course, that doesn't count all the viewing parties. I don't know about you guys but I'm going to be watching on the couch with as many people as I can.

CAMEROTA: We'll be there.

CUOMO: For good reason. It's the first time you'll see these two people next to each other making the case for why they should be yourpresident. It's a big night.

STELTER: I hope everybody does watch. We all need to tune in.

PRESTON: Right.

CAMEROTA: Brian, Mark, thank you.

PRESTON: Thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

CUOMO: All right, we have more debate coverage ahead. What do you say? Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is unqualified and unfit to be commander-in-chief.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton, who's weak, her judgment is horrible.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When the lights are bright she brings the A+ game to the table.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump has been preparing for this debate his entire lifetime.

CLINTON: His real message seems to be make America hate again.

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is a world-class liar.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, TRUMP CAMPAIGN MANAGER: He's an actual debater and this is his debate tonight.

ROBBY MOOK, HILLARY CLINTON CAMPAIGN MANAGER: I'm very concerned Donald Trump will be graded on a curve. TRUMP: We will make this country greater than ever before.

CLINTON: When there are no ceilings the sky's the limit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. It's is Monday, September 2nd (sic), 8:00 in the East. Guess where we are? The site of history, Hofstra University. This is where tonight's first presidential debate is going to be. History in the making, there's no question about it. So much on the line for Clinton and Trump. We have 13 hours -- where's our clock? Oh, that was 13 even. That was great timing.