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New Day

Military Families Face Off with President Obama; Trump Ramps Up Attacks on Clinton; Clinton Stumps in Iowa as Early Voting Begins; 3 Wounded in S.C. School Shooting. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired September 29, 2016 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRANDON RUMBAUGH, U.S. MARINE CORPORAL (RET.): So, you know, talking about the V.A. and all the other things that we spoke about. You know, it all -- it all stands together.

[07:00:06] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Brandon, we only have a few seconds left. What do you think the answer is? I mean, if you could share it with the president beyond better recruitment?

RUMBAUGH: You know, we have a country that is so patriotic, but like you said, when it comes time to, you know, put in the work, not everybody, you know, wants to do that. And we need more people to step up, men and women, everybody that's here to, you know, be held accountable for everything that's going on.

You know, not only in our country but all over the world. And if you want to have a say in what is, you know, what's best for our country, you need to stand up and do the right thing.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Brandon, Donna, thank you so much for taking part in that. Thank you for sharing...

RUMBAUGH: No, thank you.

CAMEROTA: ... your personal story with us and all of the viewers. And we do want to follow up and find out what action the president takes, particularly with you, Donna, after your question to him. So thank you, we will stay in touch. We appreciate you being here.

RUMBAUGH: Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning, so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The next 40 days will determine the next 40 years.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: How many more Clinton scandals can this country take?

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: The president just can't pop off or lash out irrationally.

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton lacks the character and judgment to hold public office.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you vote for a third-party candidate, that's a vote for Trump.

TRUMP: I don't think she did well in the debate at all.

CLINTON: Isn't this one of the strangest elections you've ever seen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am deeply sorry that we failed to fulfill on our responsibility.

CAMEROTA: Round two for Wells Fargo CEO on Capitol Hill today.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: You should resign, give back the money that you took while this scam was going on and be criminally investigated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Up first, Donald Trump's attacks on Hillary Clinton are about to get uglier and more personal, exactly what Trump promised not to do. His surrogates are now being told to use former President Bill Clinton's infidelities against Hillary Clinton, as Trump himself ramps up his attacks on her health.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, Clinton is getting a boost from some of the biggest names in the Democratic Party. There's a lot at stake and just 40 days until the election and only ten days until the next presidential debate.

We have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN's Phil Mattingly. He's live in Council Bluffs, Iowa.

Good morning, Phil.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Alisyn.

There is a prevailing message coming out of Trump Tower right now to Donald Trump's top advisors and surrogates. It's time to go on offense as those advisors work behind the scenes to help Donald Trump improve before the next debate. They want to go on the attack no.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't think she did well in the debate at all. I don't think she did well at all.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Despite pundit after pundit calling Donald Trump a debate loser, the candidate himself remains convinced otherwise.

TRUMP: We had the debate the other night, and every single online poll had me winning by sometimes a landslide. MATTINGLY: Trump citing unscientific online surveys, surveys that

allow anyone to vote multiple times.

But as Trump remains defiant, his advisors are moving to sharpen his debate skills and attacks on Hillary Clinton before the next faceoff, hitting Clinton in releases online and in back-to-back speeches on her connections to Wall Street and corporate interests.

TRUMP: Hillary Clinton is an insider fighting for her donors. I am an outsider fighting for you. We're fighting together.

MATTINGLY: The Democratic nominee deploying her party's biggest guns to undercut Trump's efforts.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: When making life or death, war or peace decisions, a president just can't pop off or lash out irrationally. No. We need an adult in the White House,

MATTINGLY: All while Trump takes his most explicit shots at Clinton's health yet.

TRUMP: You see all the days off that Hillary takes? Day off, day off, day off. All those day offs, and then she can't even make it to her car. Isn't it tough?

MATTINGLY: Giving his biggest supporters in Iowa exactly what they want: Trump unscripted and off the cuff, touting his support among evangelical voters. Trump jokingly singled out non-Christian conservative supporters in the crowd.

TRUMP: Raise your hand if you're not a Christian conservative. I want to see this. Right? There's a couple people. That's all right. I think we'll keep them, right? Should we keep them in the room? Yes? I think so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: A lighthearted, if somewhat awkward moment during that rally. But look, that off-the-cuff way of doing things is really important, especially now, especially in Iowa. And here's why.

Early voting starts today, and that's a big thing for both of these campaigns. Guys, in 2012, 44 percent of Iowa voters cast their votes early. This is an area where Democrats traditionally have a major advantage. The Trump campaign trying to reverse that. It's why Donald Trump was in Council Bluffs yesterday.

[07:05:12] I can tell you, throughout the crowd, there were volunteers all over the -- all over the place, trying to boost those efforts. It's huge for the campaigns to be able to bank those votes early -- Chris.

CUOMO: Phil, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Hillary Clinton today campaigns in the battleground state of Iowa just as early voting begins there, as Phil was just telling you. It was all hands on deck Wednesday as Clinton is courting millennial voters with the help of Bernie Sanders, first lady Michelle Obama and daughter Chelsea. How did that go?

CNN's Chris Frates is live in Washington for us -- Chris.

CHRIS FRATES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Chris.

Well, Hillary Clinton is really trying to dip into the political fountain of youth, urging millennials to vote for her in November. Now remember, Clinton's had some problems closing the deal among young voters, many of whom passionately supported Bernie Sanders in the primary. At a campaign stop at the University of New Hampshire yesterday, Sanders tried to use his mojo to help his former rival, and Clinton worked to make the election less about her and more about issues that resonate with young voters things like college affordability and climate change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This election is enormously important for the future of our country. It is imperative that we elect Hillary Clinton as our next president.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's not just my name on the ballot. Every issue you care about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRATES: But she has a lot of work to do. A recent Bloomberg poll shows Clinton leading Trump among young voters by just four points, with third-party candidate Gary Johnson grabbing 11 percent.

Now, four years ago, President Obama won young voters by 29 percent, according to exit polls.

And yesterday, first lady Michelle Obama told a crowd in Pennsylvania that a vote for a third-party candidate like Johnson was essentially a vote for Donald Trump.

And the Clinton camp is set to turn up the volume on that message in the coming weeks. Sanders is planning to ramp up his campaigning in the final month, hitting key battleground states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin as they try to turn out young voters, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much, Chris. Thanks for all of that.

We want to discuss it now with New York City Council speaker and Hillary Clinton supporter Melissa Mark-Viverito; and CNN political commentator and former Donald Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski. Now, in previous appearances, we have told you that Corey was still receiving severance from the Trump campaign, but that is no longer the case, we are told.

Are you done with those payments?

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Amazing. Everything comes to an end. Everything comes to an end.

Corey Lewandowski I didn't think those would ever run out.

LEWANDOWSKI: Forty days to go to the election, and now this is the breaking news of the day.

CAMEROTA: But you're not getting any more payments?

LEWANDOWSKI: Correct.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the campaign.

So, CNN got its hands on the talking point that the Trump campaign puts out to its surrogates every day. The messaging that they want to say on the media.

Obviously, the Hillary Clinton campaign puts out the same thing. But we just happen to have our hands on the Trump ones. And it turns out that what you all are supposed to be talking about is basically talking more about Bill Clinton's past infidelities, as well as why Hillary Clinton was off the campaign trail for four days. Perhaps there's something wrong with her health.

Really, Corey? Are these the things that the Americans want to hear about? Why are these the talking points?

LEWANDOWSKI: Well, I think if you look at page A-1 story of "The Washington Post" today, it talks about the infidelities of the Clinton administration and what role Hillary Clinton had specifically in enabling that to take place. So these aren't the talking points of the Trump campaign. This is the A-1 story, above the fold, of "The Washington Post," who is talking about a 40-year history.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: And specifically in that story references George Stephanopoulos, who at the time worked for the administration, who has quoted Hillary Clinton as saying, "We must destroy these women who are going after Bill."

CAMEROTA: And the reason that the "Washington Post" did it is because it has come up again on the campaign trail, and they were trying to get to the bottom of what really happened during the '80s and the '90s. What do you think...

LEWANDOWSKI: And '70s and 2000s. I mean, it's a 40-year history.

CAMEROTA: Because you guys introduced it, "The Washington Post" felt that they needed to take another pass.

MELISSA MARK-VIVERITO, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL SPEAKER: Well, Donald Trump took a beating the other day at the debate. Right? Now Hillary Clinton, let's be clear, is the most vetted candidate in the history of this country.

Not only was she first lady, she ran for the Senate of New York. All of this mud has been dug up before.

Now, secretary of state that was vetting in a Republican congress, she was vetted. She now ran for a second time as running for president of the United States. This is mud that has been dug up before, and there has been no "there" there. People have voted on her candidacy, and she has won. New Yorkers are very discerning voters.

So, I think that this is just a strategy to deviate, again, because Donald Trump did so poorly and took a beating in front of 88 million viewers.

CAMEROTA: Corey, are you confident that this is a winning strategy to bring all this up again?

LEWANDOWSKI: It's about the hypocrisy of Hillary Clinton calling into question what Donald Trump has said and what his actual path has been with women. He has women that are executives in his company. He put women in charge of building Trump Tower. He has a 40-year history of putting women in positions of power in his corporation to make sure, because he puts the best person for the job, regardless of race or gender or anything else.

[07:10:14] CAMEROTA: right. So it's a response to the Alicia Machado stuff coming back up about what he said about her when she was Miss Universe and gained some weight.

LEWANDOWSKI: That's right. And no one wants to talk about what Hillary Clinton has said and done when it comes to her husband and being an enabler and attacking women -- look, it's different now.

MARK-VIVERITO: ... from the past, and that' s been set aside. There's no "there" there. Trump is not a prepared candidate. He demonstrated that the other day in the debate. He cannot speak to the issues. He did not have plans. Hillary Clinton very much told us...

LEWANDOWSKI: Hillary Clinton attacked the victims is what she did. She attacked the victims, and she doesn't want to talk about that. Right? And here's what they did.

The Clinton campaign took a person and brought her into a debate who has been part of a murder. We know that. True.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEWANDOWSKI: Has threatened a federal judge.

CAMEROTA: Never charged, never indicted, never convicted.

LEWANDOWSKI: Has threatened a federal judge. And that's true. Threatened a federal judge on television. Widely reported.

CAMEROTA: Listen, these are 20-year-old things. But, sure, I hear you. So you're saying that -- her story should be discounted Fine, that's your take. Alicia Machado story should be discounted, because what you say is in her past.

But, again, where are the issues? I mean, often you guys say, "Look, we shouldn't be focusing on all these side issues."

LEWANDOWSKI: Let's talk about the issue. Let's talk about trade; let's talk about immigration. We did not hear one word in the presidential debate in front of 88 million people about illegal immigration. Not one word.

That's a travesty, because the American people should understand where both of these candidates stand. Americans first and build a wall. Or let Syrian refugees and increase the number of...

CAMEROTA: Why didn't he bring it up at the debate?

LEWANDOWSKI: Why didn't Lester Holt bring it up? He wants to talk about Trump's tax returns. Why aren't we talking about the issues of illegals?

CAMEROTA: ... tax returns.

LEWANDOWSKI: Why aren't we talking about illegals coming to the country and killing Americans? And Hillary has a plan to increase Syrian refugees.

CAMEROTA: In the next debate, are you going to have your candidate, Donald Trump, bring that up, even if the moderator doesn't talk about it?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, the next debate is very different. You know, it's a town hall format. The questions are asked by the individuals in the audience. And what we saw in the previous debates is the candidates that engage those individuals directly traditionally do much better.

MARK-VIVERITO: We're not even -- we're not even sure if he's going to show up to the debate.

CAMEROTA: Is he going to show up to the debate?

LEWANDOWSKI: Of course he's going to show up to the debate. Right? Why wouldn't he show up to the debate?

CAMEROTA: Rudy Giuliani said, if I were -- I wouldn't advise him to show up to the debate.

LEWANDOWSKI: Rudy Giuliani -- I respect Mayor Giuliani. One person speaks for Donald Trump, and it's Donald Trump. And he says he's going to be at the three debates.

CAMEROTA: He's showing up at the debates. The town hall does work better for Donald Trump. He likes interacting with the crowd. He does feed off the crowd. Any concern from the Clinton camp?

MARK-VIVERITO: No, I mean, what we have to look at is one of the plans of action. Again, I think if you take the debate that we just saw and witnessed, Donald Trump could not in any way answer the questions directly and speak to the issues that were being presented to him. So I think people want to see a presidential candidate who has a

vision, who wants to come and bring the country together and not divide us, which is the rhetoric of Donald Trump: anti-immigrant, anti-Latino, anti-middle class. That is not the country we want to live in; that's not the country we want to build.

We want to build unity. We want to have a vision to create more jobs and move this country forward. That is not what Donald Trump represents.

CAMEROTA: I want to get you to respond to something guests just suggested. "Newsweek" has a cover story. It's just been lifted, the embargo. About how Donald Trump did business with Cuba, while there was a U.S. embargo. Let me play for you what the reporter, Kurt Eichenwald, said about this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KURT EICHENWALD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": Trump in 1998 through one of his companies tried to arrange for dealings in Cuba. And they sent a consultant down. The cost of the entire endeavor was $68,000.

At a time when American companies are not allowed to spend a penny in Cuba. And one of the most outrageous things in this is, you know, in the documents I have, after the trip is taken, after the $68,000 is expended, there's a memo talking about, well, how to make it look like it was legal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Did Mr. Trump do business with Cuba?

LEWANDOWSKI: Look, I haven't seen the report. Obviously, the embargo just got lifted. We're talking about something that took place 18 years ago from what it sounds like, which there's absolutely no evidence it actually took place. Other than a report from "Newsweek."

CAMEROTA: It is still irrelevant. I mean, even if it was 18 years ago.

LEWANDOWSKI: Did it take place is the real question. We don't know it took place. You know, the Trump Organization is not responsive. They haven't seen this, obviously. There's absolutely no facts whatsoever this took place.

This is no different than a Secret Service agent giving a first-hand account of what Hillary Clinton is actually like and then being discredited and saying, well, this didn't actually take place.

Talking point No. 18 here in the -- in the talking point memo. Redirect.

LEWANDOWSKI: You know what the American people want? The American people want a president who remembers what the answers are. And it's amazing to me that, during a presidential debate, with 88 million people, Hillary Clinton can remember every single word Donald Trump has said about someone else, but when she's investigated by the FBI, you know what she said? " I don't remember, I don't recall." Dozens upon dozens upon dozens of times. Selective memory.

[07:15:00] MARK-VIVERITO: If we add this case to the article and the reporting that came out a couple of weeks ago about all the transactions and the dealings that Donald Trump had internationally and the conflicts that that creates, very, very troubling.

What you have to judge a presidential candidate on is their actions. And as businessman, there's a lot of conflict there that he's bringing into the White House. That is of great concern, as it should be.

Anybody that defies laws of this country, like not paying taxes, as well. He's jumping through every loophole. We would love to see the tax returns.

LEWANDOWSKI: I agree. Anybody who...

MARK-VIVERITO: It should be a concern to the voters, and I believe it will be a concern.

CAMEROTA: Everybody can read it for themselves this morning.

LEWANDOWSKI: I agree. The Clinton Foundation should absolutely be held accountable. What we know is that they have made hundreds of dollars since the time that they left public office. Hundreds of millions of dollars.

MARK-VIVERITO: ... And charitable contributions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEWANDOWSKI: They haven't saved anybody's life.

Hold on one second. Hold on one second. Are you telling me, hold on.

CAMEROTA: ... in terms of AIDS medicine getting to...

LEWANDOWSKI: You know what? They have partnered with the Gates Foundation and other foundations, and that's great and they have done an honorable thing.

But they've made hundreds of millions of dollars selling influence to the State Department and foreign agencies. And you know what? The Clinton Foundation is such an absolute and utter disaster that they can't even walk away from it unless she's elected president. Moreover, if they're so concerned, if they're concerned about this, what they should do is partner with the foundation. Partner with the Gates Foundation.

CAMEROTA: Trump's Foundation...

MARK-VIVERITO: Which meanwhile is under investigation.

LEWANDOWSKI: Donald Trump hasn't made hundreds of millions of dollars in business in the public sector.

MARK-VIVERITO: Eight-eight million dollars.

CAMEROTA: A lot of questions about the Trump Foundation.

LEWANDOWSKI: Donald Trump was never a public person. And he didn't sell influence.

CAMEROTA: You're still not allowed to use money from your foundation...

LEWANDOWSKI: Donald Trump didn't take money from foreign governments into his own foundation to sell influence at the State Department.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWANDOWSKI: And he's written a $65 million check to the campaign. How much has Hillary written? Zero. She's living on taxpayers.

CAMEROTA: You've given us a lot of material. We'll unpack it all with David Gregory in a segment later. Melissa, Corey, thank you.

LEWANDOWSKI: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right. Much more serious news. We've had another school shooting in our country. South Carolina at an elementary school. Police say a teenager opened fire, hitting two students and a teacher. This happened moments after the suspect made a tearful call, leading to a horrifying discovery.

CNN's Victor Blackwell is live in Townville, South Carolina. Victor, it is good to have you there. What have you learned on the ground?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, classes will be canceled here today and tomorrow at Townville Elementary. You can see that it's still cordoned off as a crime scene.

And we know that about 35 miles away from here, there is still one boy who is still in critical condition at last check. He suffered the most severe of the three gunshot wounds here, shot in the leg, flown to the trauma center; underwent emergency surgery.

We also know that his schoolmate, who was shot in the foot, a teacher here who was shot in the shoulder, they'll be recovering at home today after being treated and released from the hospital. And just about the same time that a teacher here at the school was calling police about the shooter, we're told by investigators the shooter was on the phone with his grandmother crying, trying to say something. She was unable to decipher that.

So she got into her car and then drove to the home that the boy, we're told, shared with his father, which was just a few hundred feet away, and found her son, 47-year-old Jeffrey Osborne, had been shot to death.

Now, police say that those two scenes, here at the school and at home about three miles away from here, are connected, but they've not explicitly said that the boy shot and killed his father, but it's a strong inference.

Now, today, they'll be back here, trying to collect information and evidence about the motive, potentially, of this shooting as this community, a small rural community, tries to figure out why this happened.

Back to you.

CUOMO: Victor, thank you very much. They still have to figure out where this kid got the weapon. And they have to figure out whether that school was safe. Was there right security in place?

CAMEROTA: There's a lot of questions.

Meanwhile, the U.S. plans to send hundreds more troops to Iraq to help launch an offensive to retake Mosul. Is our military strategy and the fight against ISIS working? We have two military generals who are going to weigh in, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:22:58] TRUMP: She's telling us how to fight ISIS. Just go to her website. She tells you how to fight ISIS on her website. I don't think General Douglas McArthur would like that too much.

LESTER HOLT, NBC ANCHOR: The next segment will continue the subject of...

CLINTON: Well, at least I have a plan to fight ISIS.

TRUMP: No, no. You're telling the enemy everything you want to do.

CLINTON: No, we're not.

TRUMP: No wonder you've been fighting ISIS your entire adult life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Oh, politics. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton sparring this week on over how to defeat ISIS. I guess that's being generous in terms of what that conversation was really like, right?

So we do know this. The effort to retake Mosul is intensifying. And by intensifying, I mean there are going to be more U.S. boots on the ground. Up to 600 additional troops to help retake the city from ISIS. Is that a good strategy?

Let's debate with retired Lieutenant General Michael Flynn. General Flynn is a senior advisor to the Trump campaign. We also have former NATO supreme allied commander General Wesley Clark. He supports Hillary Clinton. Gentlemen, it is good to have you both. And hopefully we'll be able

to -- I don't really think there's too much politics at play in this right now. Because we don't really know what Trump's plans are, and Clinton's not putting out anything that is really going to change the state of play as we see it right now.

So let's try to get into what you gentlemen both think would work, and we will touch one political topic. Last night President Obama addressed something that is certainly a hot button for you, General Flynn, about why he won't say "Islamic terrorism." Here was his answer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you had an organization that was going around killing and blowing people up and said, "We're on the vanguard of Christianity," I'm not -- as a Christian, I'm t going to let them claim my religion and say you're killing for Christ. I would say, "That's ridiculous. That's not what my religion stands for."

Call these folks what they are, which is killers and terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: You were unsatisfied by that answer. Why?

[07:25:00] LT. GEN. MICHAEL FLYNN (RET.), TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISOR: Well, I mean, all you have to do is listen to what they say, this enemy says. And they're killing in the name of Allah.

So -- and I think it does a disservice to not only the men and women in uniform, but I think it does a disservice to the enemy that we're facing not to clearly define what it is that they believe in and how they are acting on that belief system.

So, I still -- I still think that the president has -- has got this wrong and, frankly, we have -- we've really had a difficult time understanding what it is that we're facing and why it is that they feel the way that they feel about us. I think that this is something that's a very serious issue.

CUOMO: One infliction point. You said it does a disservice to the enemy we're fighting. What do we care about whether or not we're calling ISIS what they want to be called? Shouldn't you disrespect them as much as possible?

FLYNN: Yes, we should. But we should clearly define who it is that we're facing. And I think that they are fighting in the name of Allah. They -- they continue to write about it. They continue to talk about it. They -- they have published articles on it. I mean, they have declared war on us.

So I mean, this is a really -- it is not a -- it's not a simple issue. It's a very complex issue.

CUOMO: Right.

CUOMO: But it's a very important one to clearly define the threat that you're facing.

CUOMO: All right. So, General Clark, let's jump to the practical implication of this political stance, which is what we're seeing right now. More boots on the ground, we're told.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Can I just come back on that one? Can I just come back for a second?

CUOMO: I don't want to dwell on the politics too much, but go ahead.

CLARK: Because you can't win a fight like this unless you bring all of our allies together, the people in the United States, we're trying to work with. We have so many loyal Muslim-Americans here. We've got friends in the Islamic world around -- they don't agree that Islam is about killing people. So when you use that label, you're discrediting our friends and allies and supporters.

FLYNN: That's not true.

CLARK: That's what the president is saying.

CUOMO: General Clark...

CLARK: That's what I want to say, Chris.

FLYNN: I think that, you know, if you talk to the leaders in the region, in the Middle East, many of them will agree with what I just said. And they look at us and say, you know, "What's the matter with you? Why can't you decide what it is that you are facing along with us?" And that's -- those are leaders like President El-Sisi in Egypt, King Abdullah of Jordan. I mean, believe me, the leaders in Qatar and other nations in the Middle East have said they know exactly what it is.

CUOMO: So what to say about it is going to follow into what to do about it. I want to just take on this one principle. The idea, General Clark, of putting more boots on the ground, the American people don't want that or at least they didn't. That was the mandate that President Obama was given when he came into office. Get us out of these things.

Now it seems as though there is a drip, drip of putting boots back on the ground. You agree with this?

CLARK: Yes. I agree with the president's strategy on this, because what we're doing is we're putting in the enablers that will help the people in the region, the Iraqi military in this case, deliver the fight against ISIS to retake Mosul and their own country and push ISIS out, and I think that's a good strategy.

You're putting people in who can help target and bring in U.S. air support. You're putting in logistics support. You're putting in trainers. That's what makes sense. CUOMO: But they're going to die. Men and women are going to die over

there if they're exposed to the combat. It's just a matter of time. Of course, the most elite fighters in the world. But, you know, this is something that we anticipate from a Trump administration, that there will be more boots on the ground. What do you tell Americans about why it's worth their sacrifice? Their blood and treasure?

FLYNN: The -- the incredibly stupid decision to withdraw from Iraq in 2011 -- and I think at that time when we withdrew, we went down to like 100 people. Today this -- what General Clark just said he agrees to is this drip, drip effect of just adding more troops here. A couple of hundred, a few more here. I mean, we've gone from about 100 in about January, February of 2011, where we withdrew about 10,000, you know, based on the recommendations of our military.

CUOMO: But Trump is open to putting troops on the ground.

FLYNN: And -- and now we are upwards of about 5,000. It's probably more than that, just based on the numbers.

CUOMO: Do you think there should be more or less? Give me a quick answer.

FLYNN: I think that there needs to be a better strategy. And what Donald Trump has laid out, he's laid out a strategy that consists of four components: military, cyber, financial -- particularly financial -- and then the ideological component. He -- and he laid that out about four or five weeks ago in a great speech to counter radical Islamism.

So I think that what we have to do is we have to have a much more holistic, a greater coherent strategy than this drip, drip effect, which is exactly what General Clark just -- he agreed to.

CLARK: Actually, it's not a drip, drip effect. it's the only effect that can work in this region.

CUOMO: General Clark, you have the last word.

CLARK: Could I have -- if I can have a word in here. One thing we learned in Iraq, as we've learned in Afghanistan, is you can't build someone else's country for them. The people in that region have to fight their own battles. We can help them.

Putting in a bunch of U.S. ground troops and having a lot of casualties and committing ourselves to a decades-long occupation is something the Unite State cannot and should not do successfully.

I haven't seen Donald Trump's strategy. I haven't seen him address any particulars.