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Sanders To Supporters: Don't Vote For Johnson; Trump & Clinton On Taxing The Rich; Protests Erupt In L.A. After Police Shooting; Dodgers Legend Vin Scully Signs Off; Trump Doubts Hillary Clinton Is "Loyal To Bill". Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired October 03, 2016 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:03] BILL WELD, LIBERTARIAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: But if you are more restrained about your military incursions then you're not in the middle of a civil war, so what the president decides to do can be tremendously important.
On the technical question of who we're taking votes from, I'm quite sure at the end of the day we will wind up with a lot more moderate Republican votes than we will votes coming from Mrs. Clinton. That's just my view --
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Why?
WELD: -- but I do think that's right. I just -- I've said this before, but I can't imagine anyone who's really a Republican voting for Donald Trump. I consider him what he said he was at the beginning, a liberal New York City Democrat. And he's doing just the opposite of what everyone in the Republican Party decided that we had -- we Republicans, as I used to be --
After the 2012 election we said we've got to emphasize free trade, we've got to have outreach to Latinos, outreach to women, all minority groups, people of color. Donald Trump is just doing the opposite of all of those things so it's hard for me to see how he keeps Republicans of good will.
CUOMO: Donald Trump's supporters say the fact that he was able to carry forward a loss of $915 plus million for maybe two decades shows he is a business genius. What do you say?
WELD: I say that the net operating loss carryforward is a well-known provision of the tax code. I hate to defend Donald Trump -- believe me when I tell you -- but it's not that uncommon.
CUOMO: Well, that size for that duration from someone saying make me president, I'm a great businessman, becomes a little bit --
WELD: Oh, yes.
CUOMO: -- of a confused picture, does it not?
WELD: No, no. I mean, Donald Trump's business career is a disaster. I think his use of the bankruptcy code -- look at his Atlantic City casinos. I think he went bankrupt with them four times and every time the little guys got stiffed and Donald came out great because he said I'm going to -- I'm going to trash this unless you pay me X million dollars. And it's just bluffing and bullying -- that's his stock and trade in the bankruptcy court. It will be his stock and trade in the White House if he gets there, which I very much hope he does not do.
CUOMO: Do you believe that Donald Trump would change a tax system that he benefits from to this degree?
WELD: I think he's a sharp practitioner and he'll take every advantage he can get tax-wise. As I say, I don't think his business career is guilt-edged or blue chip and that's an understatement.
CUOMO: I want to go back to this last premise, though. You said during the town hall, you've said in interviews that you are worried about the prospect of a Donald Trump presidency. But it is a very real prospect and that doesn't seem to weigh on your analysis of your own ticket's presence in this race. Why not?
WELD: No, no. I mean, if I think we're going to take more votes from Trump than from Clinton then I'm happy about that. I'm also happy with our platform -- with Gary Johnson and Bill Weld's platform which is, as you know, fiscally responsible, socially inclusive, and exhibiting restraint on military matters. I think that's just the right approach.
And it's not a bad thing for the country to have somebody standing up and saying look, here's a way to do it and it respects everyone, it doesn't try to pit group against group and stir up envy and resentment, and even hatred, the way Mr. Trump does. It won't break the bank the way, you know -- I have some concern the Democrats may hollow out the economy if they get in there by overspending too much. And it's not militarily irresponsible.
Gary Johnson points out that wars have unintended consequences. They may be military, they may be economic, they may be moral, you know. The Iraq invasion of 2003 -- I think we paid a moral price for that at the end of the day.
CUOMO: If pollsters are someone you trust --
WELD: But we're not embarrassed to put forward the -- go ahead.
CUOMO: Sorry, Governor. If pollsters are someone you trust that came forward and said hey, our data shows that we're drawing Independents largely and we're biting into Clinton's part of that apple. Trump's numbers fairly fixed. There's attrition on her end, it's coming to us. Would that change your analysis of what to do with your campaign?
WELD: You know, it wouldn't change my analysis what to do. Gary and I are both happy warriors. We're running full speed ahead. But I would doubt that analysis, to tell you the truth.
CUOMO: Governor Weld, thank you for coming on to discuss what matters --
WELD: Thank you, Chris.
CUOMO: -- on NEW DAY, as always. You're always welcome here. Thank you, sir.
WELD: Thanks much.
CUOMO: All right -- Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So, Chris, if you're not an accountant the details of Donald Trump's tax returns can be refusing. Next, we'll break down how billionaires, like Trump, turn huge business losses into years of personal tax relief.
[07:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: "The New York Times" publishing tax documents from Donald Trump that show business losses of $916 million in 1995 that he may have been able to use personally to avoid paying federal income tax for nearly two decades. His supporters call this genius.
Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins with more. A strained analysis, at best. How do you see it?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I want to see those tax returns -- all of them -- so we can really look inside this business. But what we know right now, for Donald Trump those losses were a gift that kept on giving and the bigger the loss, the lower his taxes. The way Trump structured his businesses and all the tax breaks available to real estate developers could have allowed the presidential candidate to reduce his income tax to zero.
All those profits from his paycheck for "The Apprentice", book royalties -- he would not have had to pay income tax on that. Now, we don't know which business drove this loss. Presumably, three failing Atlantic City casinos, an ill-timed foray into an airline, an investment in the Plaza Hotel. We don't know when this all happened. These losses filed in 1995 could have covered the three previous years.
But one thing is clear. The goal was to pay as little in tax as possible. Now one thing working in Trump's favor, most of his businesses are Limited Liability Corporations, LLCs. He can apply a loss from those businesses to offset any taxable profits earned from any other businesses.
Also, there are special breaks for real estate developers. He could have deducted interest on loans used to finance properties. He's allowed to deduct operating expenses and maintenance costs on his properties. And even though the market value of his propertyappreciates over time, for tax purposes he's allowed to write off the value of it over many years for wear and tear.
[07:40:00] Now, the Trump campaign said the GOP nominee has paid hundreds of millions in other taxes -- property taxes, real estate taxes. It also says he has "a fiduciary responsibility to his business to pay no more tax than legally required." Now that's something that's getting a lot of attention this morning. Some tax attorneys would say wait a minute --
CAMEROTA: Yes, explain that.
ROMANS: -- his fiduciary responsibility is to himself. These are his personal taxes. He doesn't have any shareholders, it's to himself, the fiduciary responsibility.
CUOMO: That's a distraction.
ROMANS: That's a distraction.
CUOMO: They're just throwing that out there.
CAMEROTA: Because it's a big word and we're like, OK, a fiduciary duty.
CUOMO: Look, this is complicated. I mean, you know, on a very basic level this sounds right. Nobody wants to pay one red cent more than they have to. If these are the rules then he did the "right thing". However, he says, you know, this is actually wrong. This system is rigged. I know it because I know the system so well, so I will fix it. But in his tax plan is there anything in there --
ROMANS: No.
CUOMO: -- that would correct this?
ROMANS: No, I don't see anything in there that would correct this, in particular, and that's why that argument today from surrogates, I think, is pretty interesting. Show me exactly where what happened to Donald Trump in 1995 wouldn't happen again under his tax code. We just don't see that.
CAMEROTA: How about Hillary Clinton's tax plan? What it -- does she take care of some of these things and does it help the upper echelon that she also is in?
ROMANS: And we know that she paid taxes last year. We know exactly what she gave to charity last year. That's what we'd like to know about Donald Trump. We know that 1995, for Donald Trump, must not be under that audit so maybe Donald Trump can release more of those pages from 1995.
Hillary Clinton wants to raise taxes on the wealthy and she wants to use that to pay for some of her -- some of her other reforms and for tax cuts for the middle-class. Donald Trump wants to cut taxes for everyone, but his tax cuts -- he has a bigger tax cuts for the rich.
CAMEROTA: So, meaning her plan -- her family would pay more? She, personally, would pay more under her --
ROMANS: The way I read it, yes -- yes.
CUOMO: This is messy because you have to know a lot about his situation and you'll know none of it because it's all privately-held.
ROMANS: Right.
CUOMO: One of the big questions that jumps out to people with a finance background is so he got this big loss, $900 plus million. I wonder what money he put up --
ROMANS: Exactly, Chris.
CUOMO: -- because many of the Trump antagonists say he doesn't put any cash as collateral on any of these --
ROMANS: He loves debt.
CUOMO: -- things.
ROMANS: And he loves debt. He has said -- how many times has he said he loves debt? What I want to know --
CUOMO: Well, it may have been somebody else's money that got --
ROMANS: Plus, he loves lost and he got OPM.
CUOMO: -- lost and he got the benefit.
ROMANS: He loves OPM, other people's money. Did he use other people's money, take big debt -- big bets with collateral that's maybe future earnings or future revenue stream and in the end take the $900 million loss that wipes out those real earnings? What I would call real earnings from real income like "The Apprentice" and book royalties and stuff so he doesn't have to pay taxes on those. We don't know.
CAMEROTA: But wait a second. Is that legal to use --
ROMANS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: -- other people's money that you then claim as a debt and you don't have to pay taxes on it?
ROMANS: No one is claiming any of this is not --
CAMEROTA: But even other people's money, it can?
ROMANS: Yes. No one's claiming it's not.
CUOMO: It's not illegal but it's shady, and that's what people have said about him over the years. This guy is different. He cheats people, he bullies people, he gets people to accept less than what they were charging him. And, you know, he did it in a way -- and that this would be a gross extension of that. And it goes to what kind of business guy he was.
ROMANS: Well, his $916 million loss -- is that a Midas touch in business? We know that it was a really bad time for Donald Trump and he has always talked about the Phoenix from the ashes part of it. That he was able to come back from that and how powerful -- that shows what a powerful businessman he is. But he was living lavishly in those years after that, right? After he'd taken that big write down and not having to pay taxes if, in fact, he was not having to pay taxes on those real earnings.
CUOMO: His accountant -- the retired accountant in "The New York Times" says he struggled with the incongruity. This is a tax accounting saying he struggled with the incongruity of helping Donald Trump live a lavish lifestyle while not paying any taxes.
CAMEROTA: Yes, but I mean -- here's another point that would be shed -- light would be shed if he released his taxes. Maybe while he wasn't paying income taxes he was giving to charity and giving all sorts of money. But there's no evidence of that that he has given anything to charity since 2008, so --
ROMANS: That's why I'd like to see those tax returns, you know. I would really like to see them to see what is in there. And, yes, they're going to be complicated, no question. You know, Donald Trump is one of the 44 percent of Americans who has no federal tax burden. Forty-four percent of Americans don't have some sort of tax burden.
He has tweeted in the past about people who don't pay their fair share in taxes. I think that's the irony here. It's the fact that he had that big loss and then all those years later when he was making money he may not have been paying into the -- into the -- into the federal tax.
CUOMO: No one should question whether he had the legal right to do it, although maybe that's why he's being audited. We don't know that, either. But it's whether or not it was right to do it. Was there some moral obligation that someone as wealthy as he should have felt to give more than nothing?
ROMANS: A moral obligation. His moral obligation to the tax code.
CUOMO: Is zero.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: I know, I know, but he's running for president, you know, not to be someone who knows the tax codes.
ROMANS: Show us the taxes. Show us some --
CAMEROTA: Christine, thank you.
CUOMO: Very helpful on some complicated stuff. Donald Trump and his surrogates turning the heat up on Hillary Clinton by bringing up her husband's infidelities. Even more, Donald Trump said he thinks that Hillary Clinton has been unfaithful. Why would he say this -- next.
[07:45:05] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: A second night of tense protests in Los Angeles after police shot and killed an African-American teen on Saturday. The LAPD says 18-year-old Carnell Snell had a gun when he bolted out of a car believed to be stolen and took off on foot. Officials have not said if Snell made a threatening move toward officers with that weapon. The assistant chief telling reporters more details should be released today or tomorrow.
CAMEROTA: Sad news this morning from South Carolina where the little boy wounded in last week's shooting at an elementary school has died. Officials say 6-year-old Jacob Hall suffered massive blood loss that led to a severe brain injury. The 14-year-old suspect in the three shootings at Townville Elementary has also been charged in the earlier murder of his father in their home.
[07:50:00] CUOMO: OK, it is the end of an era in baseball. The legendary voice of the Los Angeles Dodgers, Vin Scully, signing off after an astonishingly, and probably never repeated, 67-year career. When he signed on Dodger legends like Jackie Robinson, and Pee Wee Reese, and Roy Campanella were still wearing the uniform.
Scully grew up a Giants fan here so it's fitting that his last game pitted both old New York rivals that moved west. His favorite player of all time was Giants legend, Willie Mays. He joined him in the booth this Sunday for his last effort.
CAMEROTA: That was a great picture there of how happy he was.
CUOMO: He changed the game. He brought it life before you could even see it and his talent carried him right through. What a loss, but good for him and his family.
CAMEROTA: Well, that's great. All right, back to the campaign trail. Donald Trump, this weekend, launching highly personal attacks against Hillary Clinton.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hillary Clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. I don't even think she's loyal to Bill if you want to know the truth. And really, folks -- really, why should she be, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: All right, let's go there. Let's discuss this with CNN political commentator Van Jones and CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director Jeffrey Lord. Gentlemen, nice to see you this morning.
Jeffrey, what does that mean? I mean, let's just -- let's just, you know, go there and try to parse this. "I don't even think she's loyal to Bill if you want to know the truth." What does that mean?
JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, Alisyn, I heard this and I have to say I think it's just a throwaway line. I don't think it means anything, frankly. He's in front of a crowd, the crowd is decidedly anti-Hillary, you know. He pops it off. This is going to disappear in the media cycle in less than 24 hours.
CAMEROTA: We can only hope, Jeffrey. But, I mean, do you think it's OK that he goes there? Do you think that this is, you know, gutter politics?
LORD: I just don't think -- I don't -- I don't -- you know, we've got a lot more important things. Let me -- and I mean this seriously. I mean, people here in my neck of the woods -- I mean, they're talking about jobs, Obamacare. I mean, I get stopped with people recognizing me to talk about things. They never talk about things like that.
CAMEROTA: Right.
LORD: What they're talking about is, for instance, the state of Obamacare. Their health care and how it's affected, and their health care costs. So I just -- I just don't think, you know --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
LORD: -- it's anything more than a throwaway line in a speech.
CAMEROTA: Yes, Jeffrey look, I agree with you. I get stopped by people all the time and same thing. People want to talk about the issues connected to their lives. So why does your candidate go there?
LORD: He's just being -- he's just playing with the crowd. It's just humor, that's all. I mean, let's confess here. I mean, volumes have been written on the Clintons, including that kind of suggestion. So, you know, it's not that that kind of thing hasn't been out in the public for years.
CAMEROTA: Fair game or not fair game?
LORD: What?
CAMEROTA: So is it fair game for him to go there -- or fair game isn't the right word. So is it strategic for him to go there or not?
LORD: I just don't think it's a -- I just don't -- I just think it's a throwaway line. I don't -- I don't -- I mean, this is not a major thing in his campaign. I mean, the main thing, if we're going to stick on that topic --
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'll tell you what is a major point.
LORD: -- is, you know, her treatment of the women that were involved with Bill Clinton, voluntarily or in the case of --
CAMEROTA: That is what they have been hammering. OK, Van how do you see that -- that throwaway line?
JONES: Well, first of all, what people are talking about is his temperament. Obviously, we all care about the issues but we need a leader who's going to be able to deal with it. Listen, you know, Donald Trump is like an elementary school on Saturday, no class. I mean, that is, you know, gutter politics of the first order. Even you're not going to defend it, Jeffrey.
And part of the problem that we have here is this is a candidate that was actually doing quite well just a short seven, eight, nine days ago. He was disciplined, he was focused, he was scaring the heck out of a bunch of people. He got on the stage, he got rattled, and since then we are in day seven of a meltdown where he is just showing himself just to be erratic and all over the highway because he got rattled. You cannot do that when you're President of the United States.
CAMEROTA: Yes, you know, Van -- I just want to stick with you for one more second because some of Trump's supporters say that well, Hillary Clinton started this at the debate. She brought up Alicia Machado. That's not the issues. How does that have to deal with people's paychecks or with their health care? She went there from 20 years ago. She resurrected this old fight with this old woman that she brought up to try to impugn his character. So then, I guess, all bets are off.
JONES: Well, here -- you can say that, however here's reality. He actually did say the bad things about her and then he doubled down, and tripled down, and quadrupled down, and tweeting late at night and everything else. So, whereas, there is zero evidence that Hillary Clinton's been unfaithful to her husband.
CAMEROTA: Right.
[07:55:00] JONES: And, again, Mr. Lord says well, he's just popping off when he's been saying whatever he's saying. The reality is when you are the President of the United States or when you're 30 plus days out from possibly being the president, you have to show some discipline, some restraint, some judgment.
CAMEROTA: All right, yes.
JONES: And you can't just let whatever crowd is front of you dictate what you say.
CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, Jeffrey, look --
LORD: Ali?
CAMEROTA: Yes?
LORD: Ali, if I -- if I may, when Barack Obama says -- you know, quotes that line from "THE UNTOUCHABLES" and says if they bring a knife to a fight you bring a gun, I mean -- we're talking the same thing, are we not? Does that not involve Ipresident's temperament and --
CAMEROTA: I don't know, Jeffrey. But, I mean, isn't it that like -- how does -- who is the bigger philanderer work for Donald Trump? I mean, he, too, had his issues that were splashed all across the New York tabloids in the 1990s, so going back to Bill's philandering or Hillary Clinton's fidelity -- how does this work?
LORD: The way this works -- it's not the fidelity. I mean, I think the Bill Clinton/Donald Trump fidelity issue was a dead letter. What is, as I said, important is Hillary Clinton's treatment of women like Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey, et cetera, all of whom -- and there are a number of them -- are willing to come forward and talk.
Or job shaming, if you will, of Gennifer Flowers that oh well, she's only a cabaret singer. Well, what's wrong with being a cabaret singer? I mean, that is the height of arrogance. This is exactly the way she thinks.
CAMEROTA: But -- yes, I hear you, Jeffrey, but if you want to talk about issues and if you think that that's what voters care most about why do you and his other surrogates, and Donald Trump, keep veering into this philandering territory? Why not just stick with issues then?
LORD: Well, for the -- for the same reason that Hillary Clinton did this. In her case, it was very deliberate and brings up Miss Universe. I mean, they -- these candidates say things. I mean, Donald Trump, in this case, it was a throwaway line, humor.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
LORD: In her case, this was dead serious.
CAMEROTA: OK. Van, I mean, look, is it a character issue? Is there a double standard? If we're going to bring up character, and Donald Trump's character, then Donald Trump's campaign is going to bring up her character and is that where we are and is that all fair game?
JONES: Well listen, if you want to make an issue about character that's perfectly fine. In fact, the one thing that we know about presidents is the issues that they run on sometimes are not even the issues that they have to govern on. When George W. Bush ran for office we weren't talking about al Qaeda, we aren'ttalking about Osama bin Laden. We were talking about tax policies. So, character sometimes is the only thing that you're going to be able to judge, so I don't have a problem with the character.
And also, frankly, Hillary Clinton trying to continue to raise the issue of his horrific mistreatment of women, his incredible contempt for women is a part of his character. I don't have a problem with that.
CAMEROTA: Right, but then you're -- but then you do have a problem --
LORD: And hers.
CAMEROTA: Hold on, Jeffrey. But then, if they bring up her treatment of women that Bill Clinton was involved in, then that's also fair game?
JONES: Well listen, I think that she can absolutely explain to the American people that she may not have had kind things to say about people who were cheating with her husband. I don't -- that's perfectly fine. What I'm talking about is something much more troubling which is how does he continue to fishtail off into ditch after ditch after ditch, six-seven days after the debate? And it partly is he was trying to actually make a point which maybe it was a legitimate point -- CAMEROTA: Yes.
JONES: -- then he throws out this line. And he does this to himself all the time. It goes to presidential temperament. It's a tough game.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
JONES: You can raise tough issues but when you raise false issues in a dumb way a month before you're supposed to be elected, it does not give people confidence --
CAMEROTA: OK.
JONES: -- in your temperament or your judgment.
CAMEROTA: Van Jones, Jeffrey Lord, thank you.
LORD: Thanks.
CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news. Let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: He didn't pay any federal income tax.
TRUMP: That makes me smart.
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR, NEW YORK CITY: The man's a genius. He knows how to operate the tax code.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Trumps says hey, I'm worth billions but I don't pay any taxes. But you, you make $15 an hour, you pay the taxes.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton's only loyalty is to her financial contributors and to herself. I don't even think she's loyal to Bill. Why should she be, right?
CLINTON: This is someone who always puts himself first.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Kim Kardashian West robbed at gunpoint.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR EUROPEAN CORRESPONDENT: Five people came in with masks and guns. They tied her up then stole her jewelry.
CUOMO: The reality T.V. star's real-life drama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.
CUOMO: Good morning, everyone, welcome to your NEW DAY. Don't adjust your sets. Chris Cuomo has not transformed into John Berman. Thank you for pinch-hitting here. Great to have you because Chris --
BERMAN: A smarter, more handsome version showing up all of a sudden.
CAMEROTA: That's right, an upgrade here. Chris has had to take off for a big interview that he is doing. You can tune in tomorrow for that.
Up first, Donald Trump's campaign is dealing with a tax bombshell. "The New York Times" revealing that Trump may have avoided paying federal income taxes for nearly two decades because of business losses totaling nearly $1 billion.
BERMAN: Now, some of Donald Trump's supporters call him a genius for this. Hillary Clinton says that Trump's returns confirm he is a business failure.
