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New Day

Pence & Kaine Face Off in Feisty VP Debate; Hurricane Matthew Bearing Down on East Coast. Aired 07:30-8a ET

Aired October 05, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And that every single one of the 12 to 14, we don't know exactly how many of the undocumented immigrants were here, that always seemed impractical to people, but you're saying that Donald Trump has now come around to recognizing this?

[07:30:13]CHRIS COLLINS, REPRESENTATIVE 27TH DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: Well, I've said all along, we never were going to deport 11 or 12 million illegal immigrants. We can process them in a way of making them legal. But the difference between he and Hillary and Tim Kaine who are going to keep our borders open and still put this country at risk versus securing the borders and getting the criminal element out of here. Donald trump is going to "deport" the criminal element that Hillary and Tim Kaine are not.

CAMEROTA: OK. They have never said that --

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: And Barack Obama has not.

CAMEROTA: Hold on congressman, congressman. They have never said they want "Open Borders." And, as you know, President Obama had deported --

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Oh, they may not want them but -

CAMEROTA: -- a record amount of people. He's known as "The Deporter in Chief." So, what you're claiming about open borders and then not wanting to --

COLLINS: Well -

CAMEROTA: -- deport people is not true. The facts don't support that.

COLLINS: No. First of all, what he has done is when they do -- when they stop someone at the border and turn them back, he counts that as a deportation. He -- Barack Obama changed the definition of what deportation is. Stopping someone at the border and not letting them in is not deporting them. But the difference is, Donald Trump is going to get the criminal element out here. There are many countries now who are saying they won't take back the criminal element.

CAMEROTA: Yup.

COLLINS: I can assure you Donald Trump is going to get those folks out of this country where right now, they're walking our streets.

CAMEROTA: OK.

COLLINS: And when it comes to securing the borders, Hillary and Tim Kaine, are not going to change the fact that we have porous borders today. People surging in, they're not deporting the criminal element.

CAMEROTA: OK.

COLLINS: Donald Trump is going to stand strong on that, that's the difference.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, I want to move on to a place where governor Pence did seem to deviate from Donald Trump in terms of his characterization and stance on Vladimir Putin. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The small and bullying leader of Russia is now dictating terms to the United States to the point where all the - all the United States of America. The greatest nation on earth, just withdraws from talks about a ceasefire, while Vladimir Putin puts a missile defense system in Syria while he marshals the forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, Congressman, is Vladimir Putin a great and strong leader, as he has been called by Donald Trump or is he a small and bullying leader as Governor Pence called him?

COLLINS: Oh, I mean, there's no question, Vladimir Putin is a bad guy. He is a bullying dictator. You know, he -- they don't, you know, have the democracy we have here in America. And Donald Trump has differentiated his role as commander-in-chief to that of Barack Obama, who has let Vladimir Putin walk all over the United States, whether it's currently in Syria, whether it was in the Ukraine. And I think, again, people are talking out of context the word, "Leader." The fact is, Barack Obama is no leader, neither is Hillary Clinton and I think that the nuance --

ANCHOR: Vladimir Putin is what Donald Trump's point is.

COLLINS: Yeah. Well, the nuance is as Donald Trump has said, at least when Vladimir Putin sets his mind to something, it gets done. That's not the case with the embarrassment we see today on the international stage with America in a diminished role under the lack of leadership of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. I think that's the nuance of that. People are getting hung up on the word, "leader." Let's look at the results. The results of where the United States are today is an embarrassment, which is why, you know, I think so many Americans are supporting Donald Trump who's going to put America first. CAMEROTA: Congressman Chris Collins, great to get your perspective this morning on how the debate --

COLLINS: OK. Good to be with you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: -- and everything else went. Thanks so much. Let's get to Chris.

[07:33:59] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Alright, we got a political story, but then we have this massive hurricane to track, Matthew, it is a powerful storm leaving destruction and flooding in the Caribbean. It is now headed toward the east coast, specifically Florida. We have a live update from the National Hurricane Center, next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[07:37:43] CAMEROTA: Hurricane Matthew is now bearing down on the Bahamas. It is expected to intensify. This powerful storm has slammed Haiti and Cuba, leaving rushing flood water, downed trees. You can see some of the aftermath here. The East Coast is now on high alert bracing for Matthew's arrival. CNN Meteorologist Chad Myers joins us with the very latest forecast. What are you seeing at this hour, Chad?

[07:38:04] CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm seeing a hurricane that really got mixed up. It got - it got disintegrated by the eastern tip of Cuba, but at this hour, it is regaining strength already. So, what we saw was a storm that was very strong when it hit Haiti, lost a little bit of power there and lost a lot of power overnight, is now regenerating its power. It is now regenerating what will become now, as forecast, a new Category 4 hurricane. We've dropped down to Category 3 because of that disruption in the airflow. It's kind of like, you know, putting your hand out the window, you could slow your car down a little bit. This big hand 14,000-foot mountains or 5,000- foot mountains kind of slowed the storm down just a little bit. But let's get to what we're have -- what we're looking at here, for the rest of the day, we'll see this storm make a close approach to Florida. And this is the most important part, whether we get the landfall in Florida or not will be a big difference, certainly. If this storm is a Category 4 storm, and it makes landfall and scours the entire coast of the U.S as a Category 4 storm, it's a billion dollar storm. If it stays off shore 60 or 80 miles, it's just a wind maker. We'll see some damage, we'll see some flooding, we'll see all that, we'll certainly see huge beach erosion, but not a billion dollar storm. So, it's 60 miles one way or the other. And right now, I don't know whether its 60 miles left or 60 miles right. We'll just have to keep watching that.

CUOMO: Alright, Chad, let's do this. Let's bring in Dr. Rick Knabb, his a Director of the National Hurricane Center, joins us now live from Miami. I got Chad with me, too. Rick, thank you very much. So, we know that there are reconnaissance planes out there and trying to get a real-time information about this storm and whether it's rebuilding. What can you tell us?

[07:39:37] DR. RICK KNABB, DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Well, we can already see indications in the satellite imagery that the thunderstorm activity is starting to fire back up, again. It took kind of the pass of -- path of least resistance in between Haiti and Cuba. So, it hasn't spent that much time over the mountainous terrain, and it hasn't been all that much disruptive. We have no reason to believe this will weaken significantly before getting close to Florida. We might see ups and downs in the intensity. It could go between Category 3 and 4 at Times. The bottom line, major hurricane will be approaching Florida tomorrow and tomorrow night.

MYERS: Dr. Knabb, hey, its Chad Myers. I'm talking about the pressure now. I know this is a technical term, but we just have the plane go through at 962. That concerns me, that we still have that more of a pressure even after hitting land twice as you said. This could still blow up to a much more dangerous storm, couldn't it?

KNABB: It could certainly intensify again, and sometimes major hurricanes weaken temporarily, even over open waters, and then come back again. The internal structure can change. You can have eyewall replacement cycles. I wouldn't worry too much about what those fluctuations are going to be. For folks in Florida, you could be having a land fall of the core of a major hurricane tomorrow night. So, that's why we want people to be preparing today for the possibility of happening in the hurricane warning areas.

CUOMO: Alright. Let me ask you this, not so much from the meteorological perspective, but the -- what's this going to do with my life perspective. The people who are on that east coast of Florida, what kinds of things do you think they should automatically prepare for, and where, and then what's the range of scenarios?

KNABB: Sure. Now, we have watches and warnings that specify which hazards have a possibility of occurring or are expected to be occurring. When it comes to the hurricane force winds, that's what the warnings are for. And then you might not just be a coastal event. The closer this comes to the coast of Florida or even comes on shore, the farther inland, the stronger winds will occur. I live inland, I'm getting ready for strong winds, I'm preparing for that today, and that's not just about the wind. Storm surge and inland flooding caused by heavy rainfall are also hazards that could be experienced, especially in the eastern part of the Florida peninsula. We have prototype storm surge watches and warnings up. And we have the possibility of having double digits in terms of the inches of rain fall. All the hazards are worse the closer to the coast this gets.

MYERS: Doctor, it's Chad, again. Taking a look at the track of the storm just paralleling the coast, honestly, it could be 20 miles off shore, it could be right on shore. Are we evacuating people early enough? Do we want to move them sooner? What do you think, because we could have -- we can honestly have a storm of a Category 3 or 4 power on -- or at least close to land for 500 miles, if it follows that coast all the way up to Georgia. What should people be doing? What should leaders, what should - what should managers, emergency managers be talking about right now? KNABB: Yes, because of the possibilities you just described, because of this track, having the potential to affect multiple states. For days, we have been talking in the weather service and the Hurricane Center with emergency managers in Florida, Georgia, South and North Carolina, with FEMA. They have been very proactively -- going back all the way to the weekend, in terms of what precautions they might need to take, and some evacuation instructions are being given. And if you live in an area and your local officials tell you to evacuate, you need to go. Because they have been talking with all of us and getting guidance from us, and they're making decisions based on the best possible information. Most evacuation are for the storm surge hazard, the deadliest hazard of all, historically.

CUOMO: All right, doctor, thank you very much. Chad, let's check back with the doctor in the next hour, see what's changed from then, kind of, update everybody's understanding along with your help as well. Thank you, fellas. I'll see you soon. Alisyn?

KNABB: You're welcome.

CAMEROTA: We have just been talking about more than 1 million people on South Carolina's coast are expected to evacuate their homes today. Florida's governor urging people and the state to prepare for a direct hit. So, Boris Sanchez is live in Daytona Beach, Florida for us. What are you seeing there, Boris?

[07:43:46] BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Alisyn, right now, it's a picture-perfect day in Daytona Beach. There are families walking up and down the beach, people taking selfies. Well, this picture will change very soon as we get closer to seeing the effects of hurricane Matthew. You heard from the forecast, there's a good chance that this may just graze the coast of Florida. But people here are not taking any chances, they're preparing for a direct hit. Florida Governor Rick Scott, declaring state of emergency across the state. Saying this is an extremely dangerous storm. It's a hurricane that's killed seven people in the Caribbean, so they're not taking any chances. We've seen long lines outside of gas stations, grocery store shelves with water and non-perishable food items that have been emptied out. There are already 500 National Guard members that have been deployed. We've also heard of mandatory evacuations just south of here in Brevard County, where several barrier islands have been evacuated. We're likely to see more of that as the storm gets closer, especially in coastal communities. The governor again, saying that, "If you think you're going to have to leave, it's best to do it now and stay ahead of this storm." Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Boris. Florida so sophisticated in terms, of how to deal with this, but it's always a numbers game, right? How soon, how much do you do? So, we'll keep track of it, Boris, thank you very much.

Now, the political reality is that, the Vice Presidential Debates don't usually make that big a deal in the race, but that's not what the GOP ticket was hoping for this time. They were hoping that Mike Pence could really reset this race. Give an entirely different feel to the ticket. So, we're going to look at the big moments and see whether or not they got what they wanted, next.

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[07:49:34] CAMEROTA: Alright. You see it there, Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence being called the winner of last night's VP Debate in CNN's instant poll. The main questions this morning, what will it change? What will it impact starting today, and what will it mean for the next presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton? So, let's bring in CNN's Senior Political Analyst and Senior Editor for The Atlantic Ronald Brownstein. CNN Political Analyst David Gregory and CNN Politics Executive Editor Mark Preston. Gentlemen, great to have all of you here. Ron, I'll start with you. What does change this morning after last night's debate?

[07:50:06] RONALD BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, I thought the debate was actually the - like the whole campaign in miniature. You know, after eight years -- after one party's in the White House for eight years, there is always a case for change. And Mike Pence, very effectively and energetically, pressed the case for change, kept Tim Kaine on the defensive on the issue agenda, both the record of the Obama administration and the Clinton proposals for 2016. But Pence and the other part of the miniaturization of the - of the whole election, struggled enormously to defend many of the things that Donald Trump has said and done. Air brushing them or simply ignoring them and that really kind of gives you the whole campaign in a box. There is an audience for change, as there has been in every time we've had a two-term president since World War II. But Donald Trump is having trouble convincing more than around 40 percent of Americans that he is the kind of change that they feel comfortable with.

[07:50:54] CUOMO: Hey, Mark Preston, how big of a deal do you think it was? It only came up a little bit last night from Mike Pence about what Bill Clinton has said about ObamaCare. We have some sound to play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: That the people who are getting killed in this deal are small business people and individuals, who make just a little too much to get any of these subsidies. Why? Because they're not organized, they don't have any bargaining power with insurance companies, and they're getting whacked. So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden, 25 million more people have health care, and then the people who are out there busting it sometimes 60 hours a week wind up with their premiums doubled, and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, the democrats and the Clinton campaign will say he cleaned this up afterwards saying, "Well, you got more people covered, you've got 90 percent of the country covered." It doesn't change his fundamental point. He pointed out a flaw in ObamaCare. Pence echoed it last night. How big of a deal?

[07:51:54] MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Look, it's a big enough deal that we're certainly going to be talking about it. I don't know if it's going to be able breakthrough in the end through all the discussion among Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in the lead up to Sunday's debate. It really rest on the shoulders now, I think, of Donald Trump to see how effectively he is able to bring it up on Sunday night. Is he able to (INAUDIBLE) home - headed home? The problem for Hillary Clinton is that's her husband. The fact of the matter is, is that he was giving voice -- Bill Clinton was giving voice to a lot of people who are very frustrated with ObamaCare in the fact that it's costing them a lot more money now that it's implemented.

CAMEROTA: Well, exactly. I mean, David Gregory, this is the thing. Obamacare has not been a very big issue in this election, but this is the thing that galvanized republicans, you know, they felt that this was being rammed down their throats, they felt that this was a mandate they didn't need, they predicted that their premiums would go up. So for Bill Clinton to go off script so much, and say, "This is the craziest thing in the world." Does it regenerate that conversation now for the campaign?

[07:52:55] DAVID GREGORY,CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I think it can. And I think it was -- it was terribly off message for Bill Clinton to be engaged in that and it's just another discordant note from him, meeting on the tarmac with Loretta Lynch, the attorney general, was another low point of this campaign that I think made Hillary Clinton's job harder. So, I think there's no question, but I think it goes to Ron's point more largely, which is that, you know, Pence was able to kind of sweep the landscape, and say, this is why there's all this energy, and this is why there's a rationale for a Trump candidacy if you look at the expansion of government, as we see in health care, in ObamaCare, and what is yet to be done, what has to be changed. They're calling for total repeal if you look at the international stage. And what has not been done, what's been done poorly, how dangerous it remains. That's the case for change. But I do think at the end, even though Pence probably wins on style points, that even in an overly caffeinated Tim Kaine had an enthusiasm and a gusto going after Trump that I think has the ability to continue to enthuse elements of the democratic base that they need to turn out and get excited. And so, going through those bullet points and all those attacks, which I don't think that Pence really wanted to answer, I think ultimately was a job done for the democratic side.

CUOMO: Tim raising Kaine last night in that debate. Ron Brownstein, you love to look inside the demographics and see the race as a function of who each of these candidates needs to get. What did you see on display last night?

BROWNSTEIN: That's a great question. It was kind of the alternate reality of this - of this campaign, right? Mike Pence was most effective when he kind of turned the prism so you would see Donald Trump through the lens of kind of conventional republican small government arguments. He linked him to kind of the Reagan economic strategy. He linked him to the peace through strength of Reagan, and he basically tried to tie Trump as much as he could to conventional conservative republican thinking over the last several decades, and that has the opportunity to kind of remind voters, particularly I think college educated white men where he is significantly underperforming, hey, this is a guy - this is a republican who's going to cut taxes and cut regulations. Tim Kaine on the other hand, in addition to prosecuting Trump's words against Pence, did touch on issues that animate a lot of different elements of that Democratic coalition. He hit very hard on criminal justice reform. He really went after Pence on immigration issues. At the end, his very impassioned defense of abortion rights. You know, when I was talking about this kind of an alternate reality of what this campaign might have been, a kind of more conventional republican argument for change against a democratic agenda that animates the growing elements of the electorate in their coalition, you really got a sense of that in the debate. That's kind of a toss-up election. But the big, extra thing on the scales is all of the things that Donald Trump has said and done over the years, and the difficulty Mike Pence had in defending many of them, I think are going to leave people to wonder whether he, too, considers some of them indefensible.

GREGORY: It's just hard to believe that Mike Pence is really on the same page with Donald Trump or that he's reinforcing that Trump message. There's way too much distance between them. So yes, he looks like a more conventional Republican, sounds like one, but that's really not the song that Donald Trump is singing.

CUOMO: We heard it - we heard it last night on Russia, specifically, Mike Pence was much more hard line and much more sounding like Hillary Clinton in terms of the way you should treat this man, the way you should regard this man, and he did not want to own a lot of the things that Donald Trump said. However, he did have that moment, though, where he tried to balance everything that Donald Trump said, even taken at Tim Kaine's word, versus using the word deplorable, and he said, that's worse than everything that Trump has said. Mark Preston, do you think that sells?

PRESTON: I mean, no. Well, I mean, look, he tried to -- he tried to make it sell. But the fact is Tim Kaine time and time again, basically he used that 90 minutes last night to try to bring up every bad thing, every crass statement that Donald Trump has made. And you know, we showed that poll number at the beginning that showed that Mike Pence had won the debate. A couple things, one is vice presidential debates, voters don't look at those numbers and say, "OK. I'm voting for the republican ticket on that number." So, while Mike Pence had a good night, no doubt certainly personally, you got to wonder if it's going to move the needle. But also within that poll, is two things, one is at the end of the night, the poll watchers said that Tim Kaine, 7 in 10 of those, that Tim Kaine is qualified to be president of the United States, but nearly 8 in 10 said Mike Pence. But even more importantly, 58 percent of those poll watchers in that poll said that Tim Kaine did a better job of defending his running mate's record. Only 35 percent said Mike Pence did.

BROWNSTEIN: Can I -- can I -- can I have one quick thought?

CAMEROTA: Yeah. Go ahead, Ron. BROWNSTEIN: Very quick. I'm not sure that it'll move the needle either. But I think Pence pointed the way toward an argument that is more productive for Donald Trump than the kind of arguments that he has spent most of the campaign prosecuting. I mean, as we talked about before, neither side has really put a lot of energy into critiquing the policy agenda of the other side. Both Clinton and Trump have put most of their energy into personally disqualifying the other, and Pence showed an alternative path which is essentially after eight years there are always things that Americans are dissatisfied with. You can make the case for change and he tried to, as I say, wrap Trump in a more conventional, republican agenda and message. The problem is, it required him to ignore or airbrush a lot of the things Donald Trump has actually said in this campaign and beyond.

CAMEROTA: Alright. Panel, we have to leave it there. We're out of time. Thank you very much for all of your insights. We're following a lot of news this morning. So, let's get right to it.

PENCE: The campaign of Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults.

KAINE: Donald Trump says women should be punished, Mexicans are rapists.

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You better hope Trump wins.

KAINE: Governor Pence said, "Inarguably, Vladimir Putin is a better leader than President Obama."

PENCE: You're -- that is absolutely inaccurate.

HILLARY CLINTON, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He doesn't even know how wrong he is.

PENCE: Because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama failed, we are back at war.

KAINE: I'd love to hear Governor Pence tell me what's so enjoyable or comical about nuclear war.

PENCE: Did you work on that one a long time?

KAINE: He is asking everybody to vote for somebody that he cannot defend.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY, with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to your New Day. Tim Kaine and Mike Pence sparring last night over issues, interruptions, and insults. Kaine repeatedly hammering Pence over Donald Trump's most inflammatory statements with Pence deflecting when he could not defend his running mate.

CUOMO: It was very interesting, Pence came out on top in our poll as we'll tell you in just a moment but how did he do it? Did he do it by kind of keeping his distance from Donald Trump and what he said? The stakes could not be more high, four days until the next Presidential Debate, just 34 days until Election Day. We have all the news for you. CNN's Phil Mattingly starts us off live in Virginia. Phil?

[07:59:48] PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORESSPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. The goals for the candidates last night weren't exactly a secret. Tim Kaine make it all about Donald Trump. For Mike Pence, show that there is someone on the ticket who's calm and steady. Their pathway to achieve those goals, though, is a bit of a rocky performance.

KAINE: If you are Donald Trump's apprentice -

PENCE: I must have hit a nerve here.

MATTINGLY: Hotly contentious from the start.

KAINE: I can't imagine how Governor Pence can defend the insult -