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New Day

Review of Vice Presidential Debate; Interview with Jason Miller; Military Mom Responds to Trump's Comments About PTSD. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired October 05, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TIM KAINE, (D) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: You are Donald Trump's apprentice.

MIKE PENCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I must have hit a nerve here.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hotly contentious from the start.

KAINE: I can't imagine how governor Pence can defend the insult- driven, selfish, me-first style of Donald Trump.

MATTINGLY: The vice presidential debate becoming a night of whose candidate is more insulting.

PENCE: Senator you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult driven campaign.

MATTINGLY: Tim Kaine repeatedly putting Mike Pence on the defensive, using Donald Trump's own words.

KAINE: He's called women slobs, pigs, dogs, disgusting. He went after John McCain, a POW, and said he wasn't a hero.

MATTINGLY: Words Pence, in many cases, didn't directly defend.

KAINE: When Donald Trump says women should be punished, or Mexicans are rapists and criminals --

PENCE: I'm telling you --

KAINE: Or John McCain is not a hero, he is showing you who he is.

PENCE: Senator, you -- you - you whipped out that Mexican thing again. He -- look --

KAINE: Can you defend it?

PENCE: There are criminal aliens in this country, Tim.

MATTINGLY: Instead trying to take a similar tack against Hillary Clinton. PENCE: He still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary

Clinton leveled when she that half of our supporters were a "basket of deplorables."

MATTINGLY: Trump's running mate at times flat-out denying statements the billionaire has made in the past.

KAINE: Donald Trump and Mike Pence have said he's a great leader. And Donald Trump has --

PENCE: No, we haven't.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I respect Putin. He's a strong leader.

KAINE: Donald Trump's claim that he wants to -- that NATO is obsolete and we need to get rid of NATO is so dangerous.

PENCE: That's not his plan.

TRUMP: NATO is obsolete. NATO has to either be rejiggered or changed for the better.

MATTINGLY: Kaine frequently interrupting Pence.

KAINE: Let me talk about --

PENCE: Senator, I think I'm still on my time.

KAINE: These were Donald -- hold on a second.

PENCE: It's my time, senator.

MATTINGLY: And attempting to prove Trump's unfit for office by quoting Ronald Reagan.

KAINE: He said the problem with nuclear proliferation is that some fool or maniac could trigger a catastrophic event. And I think that's who Governor Pence's running mate is, exactly who President Reagan warned us about.

PENCE: Oh, come on. Senator, Senator, that was even beneath you and Hillary Clinton. And that's pretty low.

MATTINGLY: Kaine hammering Pence on Donald Trump's refusal to release his taxes.

KAINE: And he said if I run for president I will absolutely release my taxes. He's broken his --

PENCE: And he will.

KAINE: He's broken his first promise. Second --

PENCE: He hasn't broken his promise. KAINE: He stood on the stage last week and when Hillary said you

haven't been paying taxes, he said "that makes me smart." So it's smart not to pay for our military. It's smart not to pay for veterans. It's smart not to pay for teachers.

PENCE: His tax returns showed he went through a very difficult time. But he used the tax code just the way it's supposed to be used. And he did it brilliantly.

MATTINGLY: As Pence touted the message Trump advisers desperately want their own candidate to make, that they represent change.

PENCE: What you all just heard out there is more taxes, $2 trillion in more spending, more deficits, more debt, more government, and if you think that's all working, then you look at the other side of the table.

MATTINGLY: Both candidates asking Americans to trust their candidate, and distrust their opponent.

KAINE: We trust Hillary Clinton, my wife and I. We trust her with the most important thing in our life. We have a son deployed overseas in the Marine Corps right now. We trust Hillary Clinton as president and commander in chief. But the thought of Donald Trump as commander in chief scares us to death.

PENCE: There's a reason why people question the trustworthiness of Hillary Clinton, and that's because they're paying attention.

MATTINGLY: The fiery debate ending with a testy exchange on abortion, and faith.

PENCE: I stand with great come compassion for the sanctity of life of life. We can create a culture of life.

KAINE: Why don't you trust women to make this choice for themselves? We can encourage people to support life. Of course we can. But on fundamental issues of morality --

PENCE: Because we should --

KAINE -- we should let women make their own decisions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Alisyn, Mike Pence will be here in Harrisonburg, Virginia, in just a couple of hours, his first post-debate event. And his advisers are thrilled with how he did last night. There's no question about it. a lot of Republicans are looking at Mike Pence last night and they were happy with what they saw.

But the question wasn't necessarily how Mike Pence would perform. Everybody knew he was steady, he would, as a longtime politician, would acquit himself well on that stage. The real question, talking to Republicans, both last night and this morning, guys, is whether his running mate can do the same in a couple of days. Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Phil, let's see how viewers saw the debate last night. CNN's instant poll after the debate gives the edge to Governor Mike Pence as 48 percent of debate watcher say Pence won the debate compared to 42 percent for Senator Tim Kaine. About two- thirds of viewers also said Trump's running mate exceeded expectations.

So what does it all mean to the race? More than half say the debate did not sway their vote. And 29 percent did say it made them more likely to back Trump. Only 18 percent said the same for Clinton. We should note that our poll sample skews more Democratic than an average CNN poll of all Americans.

[08:05:12] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so let's discuss the implications of the night with the Clinton campaign's senior spokesperson Karen Finney. Karen, good to have you on the show.

KAREN FINNEY, SENIOR SPOKESPERSON, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: Hey, Chris, good to be with you.

CUOMO: So what did you make of Mike Pence's attempt, which was apparently well received overnight, to say the insulting campaign is the Hillary Clinton campaign, not the Trump campaign, and he summed it up in one moment equating everything that Trump has said and the word "deplorable." Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: Ours is an insult-driven campaign? I mean, to be honest with you, if Donald Trump had said all the things that you've said he said in the way you said he said them, he still wouldn't have a fraction of the insults that Hillary Clinton leveled when she said that half of our supporters were a "basket of deplorables." She said they were irredeemable, they were not American. I mean it's extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: What's your reaction?

FINNEY: You know, even in that exchange, he was not defending his candidate, his running mate. And there's just no way -- I mean, the job of the vice presidential nominee in the vice presidential debate is to both put forward your positive vision, make your case, but also to defend your candidate. And Mike Pence didn't do that. So I don't see how anybody could say that he won, because you can't win if you can't defend your running mate.

And I will tell you the other thing that I found very disturbing about that, I mean, we all know, as I think Senator Kaine laid out very well last night, it is Donald Trump who started his campaign with insult. And it is Donald Trump who consistently has insulted various groups of people. I mean, my goodness, he spent most of last week with this Twitter rampage against a former Miss Universe.

What I thought was so startling about last night, and frankly, as your setup piece indicated, I mean I thought the question was going to be, how far Pence go to defend Donald Trump, or would he be more concerned about his own 2020 aspirations? And I think the answer to that is pretty clear after last night. I mean, he literally, you know, he scoffed and he laughed and he tried to shake his head. But, he did not -- he did not defend Donald Trump. He never said, you know, well, here's why it's OK to say those things about women. And I think --

CUOMO: That's not true, though, Karen, what he did was -- he definitely did some deflecting. There's no question about it. But this is politics we're talking about. He did say, and take the time to say that Donald Trump is often being taken out of context. That came up most specifically with his comments about Mexicans --

FINNEY: But that's not --

CUOMO: -- that he pointed out to Tim Kaine that Donald Trump never said "I hate all Mexicans." He said actually "I love all Mexicans" and that he was only talking about some when he was talking about who comes across the border. So he didn't deflect entirely.

FINNEY: But let me -- well, he deflected quite a bit without actually then getting into the issue, or rather saying, here's why I'm OK with what Donald Trump said, and here's what your policy is. I think you heard a lot more substance from Tim Kaine last night, I mean, when we were talking about immigration reform, the fight against ISIS, criminal justice reform. I mean, you -- that exchange I thought was incredibly powerful.

CUOMO: Which?

FINNEY: Senator Kaine started out -- when they were talking about criminal justice reform and talking about, you know, the need to not be afraid to have a conversation that acknowledges that racial bias still exists in this country.

CUOMO: And what do you make of Pence's point? I agree with you that it was a meaningful point. I thought that and the abortion conversation were the two deepest moments of the night, frankly. But they --

FINNEY: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Pence's point was, you know, in the moment of tragedy, when you just have a shooting and it's not known yet what is true and what is false, is that the time to bring up bias and bring up problems within policing? That was Pence's criticism. What did you make of that?

FINNEY: I thought Senator Kaine did two things that I did not hear from Mike Pence. Number one, he acknowledged, you know, remember, I'm in Richmond today. He was the mayor of Richmond, so he has a very personal, you know, experience with this in terms of how do you build bonds between communities, and police officers who serve those communities, and he talked about that. He talked about both sides and he talked about this issue of racial bias as being something that is, you know, kind of stands in the way in a way that I just didn't hear Mike Pencee seem to understand that.

And again talked about the fact that it is not safe for police officers and it is not safe for people in the community when there is that kind of distrust and mistrust. So I thought that was a powerful exchange. I thought it was, you know, overall I thought Senator Kaine put forward a lot of substance talking about, you know, again the vision that he and Hillary Clinton he about how we're going to create jobs, how we're going to, you know, the jobs of tomorrow with clean energy, advanced manufacturing, the economy.

[08:10:06] I thought he did an excellent job of pressing the point about Donald Trump's taxes which, you know, Donald Trump has been trying to say oh, I'm a genius. And I think it was very important that Senator Kaine called him out and said does that mean the rest of us are stupid? Those of us who pay our taxes, and our taxes go to police officers, and it goes to our -- our 9/11 first responders who were so heroic on that day, goes to teachers, it goes to things that we value and believe are important, you know, as a society.

I mean, overall I just thought Senator Kaine did an excellent job. And I think Mike Pence in a lot of the conversation today that we're having, he went in there with a goal of trying to change the narrative for the Trump campaign, and I don't think he did that. And I certainly don't think he did it for the better because the conversation and the chatter today is why wouldn't Mike Pence defend Donald Trump?

CUOMO: Well, that's part of the chatter.

FINNEY: I don't think that is the kind of change they were looking for.

CUOMO: That's part of the chatter. Part of the chatter is that he comported himself very well, he won in the CNN poll, that Tim Kaine came after him too much. So there are going to be different versions of this. The day after the debate is often more exciting than the debate itself. But I appreciate your take, Karen Finney, as always.

FINNEY: All right, nice to see you.

CUOMO: Always. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right, so how will the vice presidential debate impact the campaign trail today? CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is live in Philadelphia where Tim Kaine will be campaigning. What's the plan there, Sunlen?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, good morning to you. You know, reverberations certainly will hit the campaign trail today after last night's debate. And the focus will start to re-shift and refocus to the top of the ticket. Hillary Clinton also already signaling that she intends to make an issue, as you heard Karen Finney there talking about one of the narratives coming out of last night's debate, that Mike Pence wasn't forceful enough in defending Donald Trump, dodged opportunities to do so. Hillary Clinton tweeting overnight that she's happy in her running

mate to have someone Tim Kaine who, in her words, "stood up for our shared vision instead of trying to deny it." Now, for both candidates it is all about looking forward now. Now only four days away from their next big debate on Sunday, Hillary Clinton will be behind closed doors, largely focused on debate prep over the next few days. Donald Trump will be wrapping up a west coast swing campaigning out in Nevada today where certainly for him coming out of last night and seeing Mike Pence's very disciplined, very prepared debate style, the big question, Chris, is, will Donald Trump learn some lessons from his running mate and potentially apply that on Sunday?

CUOMO: Good questions, Sunlen. Very interesting tweet from Donald Trump last night. He said, "Mike Pence did his homework to take on Tim Kaine. I wonder if --

CAMEROTA: Note to self.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Yes, maybe you read a little bit before you go into one of these things. Who knows what happens?

No stunner, Donald Trump thought that Mike Pence won the debate. He was saying it well before the debate was over last night. But is he going to follow the lead of what he saw last night? The Trump campaign responds, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:38] CAMEROTA: Donald Trump's running mate Mike Pence tried to turn the tables on Hillary Clinton last night attempting to paint her campaign as insult-driven.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Senator, you and Hillary Clinton would know a lot about an insult-driven campaign. The campaign of Hillary Clinton and Tim Kaine has been an avalanche of insults. I was listening to the avalanche of insults coming out of Senator Kaine a minute ago, just trying to keep up with the insult- driven campaign on the other side of the table.

SEN. TIM KAINE (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: You know, I'm just saying facts about your running mate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's discuss this and so much more with the Trump campaign's senior communications adviser Jason Miller.

Jason, great to have you in studio.

JASON MILLER, TRUMP CAMPAIGN'S SENIOR COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Good morning. Thanks for having me. CAMEROTA: One basket of deplorables trumps all of the insults that

have come throughout this campaign from your side? Really?

MILLER: I think Governor Pence did a fantastic job last night. We really saw a unified ticket on our side. I think we saw Governor Pence do a really good job of showing that ideas matter. That our plans for lowering taxes, shrinking the size of government, defending our country, making it safe again, really rose through.

CAMEROTA: Will you try to continue that message that we just heard that Hillary Clinton is a more insult-driven campaign than what Donald Trump has been?

MILLER: Well, it's funny some of the comments that we saw last night and some of the things we're seeing people say this morning, I think you're seeing the Clinton/Kaine campaign completely unhinged this morning.

CAMEROTA: How so? I've heard that number. This sounds like a talking point. I heard that that word unhinged from another one of the surrogates. What do you mean unhinged?

MILLER: I think the 70-plus interruptions from Senator Kaine went to that. And Senator Kaine had a very tough time standing up and defending their ideas. That's really, Alisyn, what this campaign is going to come down to, who has the right ideas to get this country back on track?

This is a changed election. Upwards of 68 percent, 70 percent of the people out there think we're going in the wrong direction. At the end of the day, that's what people are going to be thinking about when we go to the voting booth is do they want a change? If you do want a change, I think we have the right ticket.

CAMEROTA: It sounded like Governor Mike Pence had a different take on Vladimir Putin last night than what we've heard in the past from Donald Trump. So let me play that moment for you last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PENCE: The small and bullying leader of Russia is now dictating terms to the United States to the point where all the United States of America -- the greatest nation on Earth -- just withdraws from talks about a cease-fire while Vladimir Putin puts a missile defense system in Syria while he marshals the forces --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So, Jason, small and bullying is different from great and strong. Which is how Donald Trump has described Vladimir Putin.

So, which one is it?

MILLER: Well, Governor Pence was saying we need American leaders willing to stand up and be tough to foreign leaders and whether that's Putin, whether that's anybody else. With the Trump/Pence team, we're going to have a government, we're going to have leaders who foreign leaders will respect. That was the point that Governor Pence was making.

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump has spoken in a complimentary fashion of Vladimir Putin. In fact he has said, if he says great things about me, I'll say that's an interesting diplomatic policy. He's never called him small and bullying.

Is that how Donald Trump feels about Vladimir Putin?

MILLER: Number one, we have to be able to stand up to foreign leaders. But there's also no reason why we can't work with foreign leaders, for example, to defeat ISIS. We should be able to work with foreign leaders to defeat ISIS. That's something that Mr. Trump has consistently said.

[08:20:00] CAMEROTA: You know, Philippines President Duterte keeps insulting the U.S., and President Obama. What would Donald Trump do if a president insulted him?

MILLER: Well, they're not going to insult Mr. Trump the same way they have insulted President Obama.

CAMEROTA: You don't think that the president of the Philippines, who keeps saying he's a lightning rod, and keeps saying outlandish things, you think that if Donald Trump were president, all of that would go away, no foreign leaders would ever insult the U.S. president?

MILLER: I think what you're going to see is we're going to get back to winning again and that's with Mr. Trump in the presidency. He's going to be someone who these foreign leaders will respect.

CAMEROTA: I want to move on but I just want to make sure you think that -- so if he were insulted, if Donald Trump were insulted, by any foreign leader, what would he do?

MILLER: I think he probably would speak his mind like Mr. Trump does speak his mind. But again even before that, I think they're going to respect him in a completely different light.

Look, when you look at Secretary Clinton and her failed leadership, President Obama's failed leadership, we've seen everything go terribly over the past eight years with the rise of ISIS, the Middle East becoming less stabilized. That's not going to happen with Mr. Trump.

CAMEROTA: What did Donald Trump learn from last night's debate?

MILLER: That he has a fantastic running mate in Governor Pence. I think this goes to Mr. Trump's excellent judgment to pick someone like Governor Pence to be his number two. Mr. Trump has always said he's going surround himself with absolute best people. We're talking about the vice presidential pick, talking about building out a cabinet.

What we saw with Governor Pence last night is someone who is ready to step up and lead when called upon.

CAMEROTA: What did Donald Trump learn about debate preparation and how to engage in a debate?

MILLER: Well, Governor Pence did a fantastic job and I think Mr. Trump did a very good job in his first debate, as well.

Mr. Trump will be ready as we approach Sunday, and as we look at it I think the town hall format suits Mr. Trump very well. I think that's where he has the opportunity to connect with people, in a way that Hillary Clinton can't. And there's no amount of programming, or different lines, that someone can memorize going into a town hall format that I think can really prepare you for it. Either you connect with people and you have ideas that will move us forward, or you don't.

CAMEROTA: This is a different format, certainly. And the town hall wild be a different set of muscles. But will Mr. Trump be doing some mock debates in the future?

MILLER: He'll certainly be doing debate prep in advance of Sunday and I think he'll be ready. And I think that we had a fantastic performance in the first debate, Governor Pence did very well last night and Mr. Trump will be ready on Sunday.

CAMEROTA: I want to talk to you about Donald Trump's taxes very briefly. Has he paid federal income tax in the past 18 years?

MILLER: Mr. Trump has paid hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes.

CAMEROTA: In federal income taxes.

MILLER: State taxes, local taxes, sales taxes, federal taxes.

CAMEROTA: What about federal income taxes.

MILLER: Mr. Trump has paid hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes. He's paid all the taxes that he owes and when the routine audit is complete and when those taxes are released, you will see just that.

CAMEROTA: Can you put out the audit letter to prove he is being audited?

MILLER: Mr. Trump has made very clear that he's under audit, and those paper works all go back to the lawyers and accountants.

CAMEROTA: We take him at his word. Can you produce some evidence that he is, in fact, being audited?

MILLER: I'll leave that to the lawyers and accountants as far as what exactly is public and what exactly is private. But as soon as the audit is complete, Mr. Trump will put it out there.

CAMEROTA: Jason Miller, thanks so much for coming on NEW DAY. Great to have your take on what happened last night.

MILLER: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's go over to Chris. CUOMO: Trump wasn't on the stage last night, but he was taking some heat. And some of the things that he said are now in sharper focus in the news, specifically about veterans with PTS.

Next, we're going to be joined by the mother of a vet who died after battling post traumatic stress. Her story inspired yesterday's "New York Daily News" cover. What I this issue about? What do we need people to understand? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When you talk about the mental health problems, when people come back from war and combat and they see things that maybe a lot of the folks in this room have seen many times over and you're strong and you can handle it, but a lot of people can't handle it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Donald Trump sparking another controversy this week, and rightly so.

When suggesting that veterans who struggle with post traumatic stress are not strong, this isn't about malice. It's not about being insulting. It's just wrong. And it plays to an ignorance that should be condemned.

And it has been by many including our next guest, Stephanie Keegan. Her son served for us and died this January, after struggling with PTSD. She wrote the cover story for "The New York Daily News" yesterday stressing, quote, "my son was not weak."

Joining her this morning is the research director for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans for America, the IAVA, Jackie Maffucci.

Thank you to both of you for being with us this morning. I am sorry for your loss, Ms. Keegan.

STEPHANIE KEEGAN, MOTHER OF VETERAN WHO SUFFERED FROM PTSD: Thank you.

CUOMO: And I believe an entire family of a service member serves. And we thank you --

KEEGAN: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- for the service family. I read your piece. I get why you are angry about this.

And I get that you're not angry at Trump for taking a shot at veterans. That's not what you believe this is about. What is it about?

KEEGAN: I'm really frustrated that somebody who doesn't understand what PTSD really is thinks they have a voice to speak on the subject. To say that somebody who comes back and looks fine from war is strong indicates that you think that somebody who comes back and asks for help is not strong.

My son was a very strong young man who devoted his life to serving this country. Very honorably, and he deserves more respect and understanding for the situation that he was going through.

CUOMO: What do people need to understand? About the additional difficulty of dealing with post-traumatic stress? The stigma. The concern of shame and how you have to battle that to come forward and acknowledge this?

KEEGAN: Well, that's exactly the question here. My son served after his deployment he served for several years, and he struggled very desperately with the PTSD situation. But he didn't want to tell anybody because he was afraid he would be asked to leave the service. He wanted to stay in the service for the duration, for the rest of his life.