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New Day
Trump and Clinton Clash in Ugliest Debate Yet; Interview with Mike Pence. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired October 10, 2016 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00] JOEL BENENSON, CHIEF STRATEGIST, HILLARY FOR AMERICA: I'm not even sure he solidified his base last night.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Her critics say that if all this leaked audio had not come out, that the story of the weekend would have been the portions of her Wall Street speeches that came out because of WikiLeaks and that she would have had to have explained better the difference in per public and private persona. Fair?
BENENSON: I - no, I - look, I think we've been in this race now for 18 months. We've debated Wall Street and had to deal with it with Bernie Sanders and even more starkly with Donald Trump. Donald Trump wants to get rid of the rules we put in on Wall Street after Wall Street crashed the economy with the housing crisis. He's the guy who said, I'm rooting for the housing crisis because it would be good for me. I could go in and buy up properties when people lose their homes. Millions of Americans will lose their biggest investment they've made. I'll get richer off it. That's how he dealt with the housing crisis.
She wants to toughen the rules on Wall Street, deal with the shadow banking system. She debated this with Bernie Sanders. She's on the right side of this issue because I think most Americans believe we need more and tougher rules on Wall Street, not fewer.
CAMEROTA: Joel Benenson, thanks so much.
BENENSON: Thank you, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Great to have you on NEW DAY.
Let's get over to Chris.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so, what's going on within the Republican Party now because of what came out in this videotape with Donald Trump? Is there any real risk in the party? We get the bottom line, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:35:20] CUOMO: Shocking comments filled the second presidential debate. Donald Trump defending his apology for that 2005 video where he made vulgar comments about women and saying he would put Hillary Clinton in jail if elected president. How is all this affecting future of the GOP and of the race?
Let's discuss "The Bottom Line" with CNN Politics executive editor Mark Preston, and CNN political director David Chalian.
What this tape does, brother Preston, is put those who support Trump in a box because they have to support a man who just did horribly ugly things. Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee, Republican congresswoman, struggled with that on the show this morning. Here's a taste.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: What did you see on that stage last night that makes you proud to say, vote for him, he can get it done. Was it him saying that he would basically unilaterally put Hillary Clinton in jail for what he doesn't like about her e-mail situation? Was it him saying that he'll force companies not to leave by passing a tax, the first president to ever pass a tax because it's your job in Congress? What gives you that confidence?
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: I know what Hillary Clinton has done in the past and -
CUOMO: I'm asking you about Donald Trump and why you support him. Why is he the right person?
BLACKBURN: Well, I'm going to talk to you about what Hillary Clinton has done in the past and why I know she can't -
CUOMO: But what does that say about how you feel about Donald Trump if you can't defend your support of Trump? I get it. Let's assume for the record -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So, the - what's the - what's the dynamic at play? I'm asking her to defend Donald Trump -
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Right.
CUOMO: Which usually people love to talk about their nominee. Keeps talking about Clinton. I then say, stop talking about her, talk about him. What's going on?
PRESTON: Well, they can't talk about him, right, because what he did was absolutely indefensible and, quite frankly, he didn't really roll out any solid policy proposal last night or did he talk in-depth about why he would be a better commander in chief when it - when it came to certain things, whether it's dealing with Syria or whether it's dealing with the economy, what have you. The hatred for the Clintons is so strong right now that they just don't care. I think it would be very simple for them, very simple for these folks who have to hold their nose on Donald Trump to say it's about the Supreme Court and leave it at that, but they don't really say it.
CAMEROTA: Hmm.
David, we just also had the campaign strategist for Hillary Clinton on, Joel Benenson, who, you know, tried to address this conversation that people are having today about whether or not she went after Donald Trump and those vulgar comments enough or if somehow she felt a little bit back on her heels and hamstrung because the accusers of Bill Clinton were in the room. What's your take?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, I - listen, I think that Hillary Clinton didn't seem all that rattled to me by the accusers in the room. I do think there was a political calculation to sort of get her answer out of the way on the "Access Hollywood" tape and then try to move on. As you know, she - she tried to invoke that Michelle Obama line from the convention, when they go low, we go high. So it seemed like she didn't want to stay sort of just attacking Donald Trump on that tape. And, in fact, she kept coming back to sort of many other controversial things Donald Trump said. She wanted to fit it into a pattern rather than just join the cacophony of voices about that specific episode.
CUOMO: Right, but isn't the reason that she did that -
CHALIAN: But the fact that it's a lingering question - yes.
CUOMO: But isn't the reason that she did that is because she is Hillary Clinton, who was married to Bill Clinton, has these women? If it were anyone else on that stage without that baggage, I think they wouldn't have talked about anything the entire debate. They would have just said, how can you look at this guy? He can't be president of the United States. Listen to what he just said. I can't even look at - you know, that's all they would have focused on. She can't do that, David. Fair criticism?
CHALIAN: Yes. No, clearly there is a vulnerability there. It is more complex than - than, you're right, than another nominee. But I - but, Chris, I don't think it's just that. I also don't think that they think being in front of tens of millions of people and just hammering on that tape serves all of the interests that she wants to serve in terms of putting together her electoral strategy.
CAMEROTA: So, Mark, what's going to happen today? Are we going to see more defections from the Trump campaign or has - did he staunched the bleeding last night?
PRESTON: I think you'll see a few, but it's certainly not going to be what I would have predicted at this time yesterday, because I really thought that Donald Trump was literally going to kick the train off the tracks. And, by the way, he did take the train off the tracks in the first, you know, ten, twelve minutes when brought up Bill Clinton's infidelities and brought those women.
CUOMO: Oh, but they liked that. They liked that. The core of that party say -
PRESTON: Who's "they" though?
CUOMO: Go after her and their hypocrisy. Don't let them make moral arguments about you.
[08:40:03] PRESTON: The core -
CUOMO: They don't have the high ground.
PRESTON: The core of his support, OK, are that way. I totally agree with you on that. But those that are running for - for re-election, those who are on the ballot, every House Republican that is up next month, all the senators that are up in vulnerable states, this doesn't help them. It doesn't help them at all.
Now, there will be a couple telephone calls today with party leaders and rank and file folks to see what happens. But, listen, Donald Trump hasn't shown enough ability to not do something that would make us think, wow, there he goes again. So what I would say is, let's see what happens in the next 24 hours and see what he says.
CAMEROTA: David, what do you predict?
CHALIAN: Listen, guys, yes, I'm watching for the same thing. I think we are now seeing the moment has come into full relief for everyone to see, of why the Republican establishment was twisting itself in knots over the nomination season as it was becoming clear that Donald Trump was going to be the nominee because they were flash forwarding in their mind to this kind of moment where he is all base and nothing about reaching out to folks in the middle, adding to his voter coalition, and that creates big problems for people down ballot because they are constantly asked about the nominee. And if he is just running, you know, a total core base Trump strategy, without trying to - to me he seemed like last night he gave up on trying to expand beyond where he is. He was just trying to resolidify his floor and that is a problem for down ballot Republicans who - especially in critical battleground states, who really do need to reach out to the middle in order to get 50 percent plus one and help maintain their majorities. That's why I say still watch Paul Ryan, Reince Priebus, folks who know that his comments on Friday, no matter what the debate performance was last night, that tape that emerged on Friday, is still going to be a lingering issue all the way through to November 8th.
CUOMO: When he said Donald Trump is all about the base, it made me think of that song, all about that bass, no treble.
CAMEROTA: Did it? Yes. Me too.
CUOMO: And now it's stuck in my head. No, it didn't.
CAMEROTA: Yes, it did.
CUOMO: You -
CAMEROTA: I wrote it right there. He's all about the base.
CUOMO: Oh, ho, ho, very good. That's good.
CAMEROTA: We're starting to think alike. It's scary, scary.
CUOMO: We share (INAUDIBLE). Preston - Preston, once again lost to the Camerota Cuomo comradery.
Do you think tape-gate is now over? PRESTON: Preston didn't sleep last night, OK, just put that on the table.
CUOMO: Oh, please. Join the club. So -
PRESTON: Oh, please.
CAMEROTA: Cry us a river.
PRESTON: Oh, stop -
CUOMO: So do you think tape-gate is done? Do you think when you say he staunched the bleeding, that that means that this - you move on now and it's - it's not going to live?
PRESTON: No, because he has lost so much blood at this point, you're not going to see all these people come back to him. He's - look it, his campaign is still in a major political, strategic crisis. The pathway to victory right now for Donald Trump is beyond narrowed at this point.
CAMEROTA: OK, bottom liners, thank you.
CHALIAN: Thanks, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Up next, how did Governor Mike pence react when he heard Donald Trump's lewd comments on that tape? We're going to ask him live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:46:34] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I apologize to my family. I apologize to the American people. Certainly I'm not proud of it. But this is locker room talk.
If you look at Bill Clinton, far worse. Mine are words, and his was action.
You can say any way you want to say it, but Bill Clinton was abusive to women. Hillary Clinton attacked those same women, and attacked them viciously. Four of them are here tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump dismissing vulgar comments he made about women as just locker room talk. The controversy causing at least two dozen high profile Republicans to pull their support from Trump.
Joining us now is the Republican vice presidential nominee, Governor Mike Pence.
Good morning, governor.
GOV. MIKE PENCE (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Good morning, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Governor, what did you think when you heard those - that leaked audio from that "Access Hollywood" tape?
PENCE: Well, I think exactly what I said on Saturday. I was - I was offended by them. I said I couldn't defend them. And encouraged - encouraged Donald Trump to continue to express his genuine remorse. I think last night he showed his heart to the American people. He said he apologized to his family. He apologized to the American people. That he was embarrassed by it. And then he moved on to the real choice in this election, which is really not just a choice between two candidates, it's a choice between two futures.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: And I - I believe in the debate last night he was able to move beyond that controversy and -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: And in a very real sense lay out the choice the American people face here, which is between a stronger America at home and abroad, standing on our constitutional principles, and whether we're going to continue the policies that have weakened America's place in the world -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Stifled our economy and walk away from our most cherished constitutional traditions.
CAMEROTA: Governor, Donald Trump is, obviously, trying to move on from those comments, but it's unclear whether or not the voters have been able to. Was there a time, after you heard them, because it wasn't, well, do you think it was just locker room talk? I mean because this was talking about things that he liked - that he had done to women, groping women?
PENCE: Well, he said it's not something that he's done. He made that clear last night. He said it was talk. And, Alisyn, as I said, I - I - I found it - I found it offensive and I was - I was glad that he apologized and expressed genuine remorse.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: But, you know, at the end of the day, the stakes in this election are extraordinary.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: We - we literally have parts of the wider world that are spinning apart because of the weak a feckless leadership of this administration. We have an economy that is struggling. American families that are hurting. And you heard Hillary Clinton last night again talking about more taxes, more regulation -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: More Obamacare. More of the war on American energy that's stifling growth. And at the end of the day, in four weeks from now, the American people have a choice to make.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: And it will be between two human beings, but it will really be between two futures.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE And as the next four weeks unfold, I look forward to campaigning shoulder to shoulder with Donald Trump and laying out that future of a stronger America to make America great again.
CAMEROTA: Governor, I just want to - before we move on to your policies, certainly - we certainly want to get to the Syria policy. But before we do, there were reports that you were considering dropping off the ticket after you first heard those vulgar comments and that, in fact, your wife was so incensed and uncomfortable by what Donald Trump has said, can you just tell us about the conversations that you had with your wife or your daughters about these comments?
[08:50:03] PENCE: Well, you know, I'll always keep my conversation with Donald Trump and my family private, but it's absolutely false to suggest that at any point in time we considered dropping off this ticket. It's a greatest honor of my life to have been nominated by my party to be the next vice president of the United States of America.
Look, politics is a very tough business. I get that. This is my first time, Alisyn, at the - at the national level. And the fact is that, you know, I - as I said on Saturday, you know, I couldn't condone, I couldn't defend those remarks. I encouraged Donald Trump on Friday to apologize for them. He did. He expressed his personal remorse. But I also encouraged him Saturday to take that to the American people to show his heart. And when he said on national television he wasn't proud of it, he was embarrassed by it, I do believe that he expressed himself straight from his heart to the American people.
But - but then he moved on. And in the next 90 minutes, the American people saw a dramatic choice between someone who is speaking boldly about the challenges facing this country, and someone who, when their confronted with their own record, when they're confronted with the controversies unfurling out of the Clinton Foundation, or her speeches on Wall Street, just obfuscated or ignored or refused to respond. And I - I think in Donald Trump you've got someone who's willing to step up, speak boldly and plainly from his heart and his mind and -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Hillary Clinton, when she's confronted on speeches on Wall Street, she gave us a one minute lecture on Abraham Lincoln and never answered any of the questions that were posed.
CAMEROTA: And, governor, if it came out, if there were evidence that came out that this was just more than locker room talk, that, in fact, Donald Trump had done those things that he said he had done to women, then would you drop off the ticket?
PENCE: Well, Alisyn, he said last night very clearly that that was talk, not actions. And I believe him. And - and I think the contrast between that and what the Clintons were involved in 20 years ago, the four women that were present last night, was pretty dramatic for most Americans. I mean I remember those days, Alisyn. I'm a - I'm a little bit older than you and I remember the extraordinary avalanche of scandals that came out of - of President Bill Clinton's despicable behavior. Even with a 23-year-old intern name Monica Lewinsky -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: That - that history records that - that Hillary Clinton called a narcissistic loony tune. Well, it turned out Monica Lewinsky, once Bill Clinton was under oath, he admitted that he'd been involved with her. He paid settlements to one of those that were attendant last night.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: I mean I'm - I have no interest, quite frankly, I have no interest in dredging all of this stuff up any more than Donald Trump does, but the simple - the simple fact is that - that Donald Trump expressed that he was not proud of, he was embarrassed. He apologized to his family and to the country for words.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: But - but as all this comes up, the American people need to know the deeds -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Of not only President Clinton, but the efforts by Hillary Clinton to in effect -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Destroy the reputations of women who made accusations against her husband when history records it was all true.
CAMEROTA: Governor, I mean, there are also allegations against Donald Trump. Those very same allegations exist against Donald Trump. And so this argument by - by you and by Donald Trump of, look at them, look over there, look at these allegations, the very same allegations are again Donald Trump. Are you comfortable that this is - this sort of -
PENCE: I don't - Alisyn, I'm not - Alisyn, I'm not at all certain what - how you - Bill Clinton was - admitted to being involved with a 23- year-old intern in the White House and finally admitted that under oath.
CAMEROTA: And - and Donald Trump has admitted to being unfaithful to this wife. PENCE: There were - they - Bill Clinton paid a - Bill Clinton paid a
settlement for -
CAMEROTA: And Donald Trump had a settlement to the woman who accused him of attempted rape.
PENCE: And - for - to one of the women who was there.
CAMEROTA: There's a whole "New York Times" profile about it. Jill Harth (ph), yesterday. They're so parallel that that's why I asked you about going down that road again and dredging up the bill Clinton stuff
PENCE: No, no, Alisyn, Alisyn, Alisyn what you asked me is if the things that were said on that video Friday were actions, if that would change my view. And I said to you, he made it very clear last night before the American people that those were words, not deeds.
CAMEROTA: Yes, but -
PENCE: And I understand why you want to conflate all this. I understand why you want to pull it all together.
CAMEROTA: Because there are allegations that they are deeds. There are allegations that he acted poorly and assaulted women.
PENCE: But the simple - the simple truth is - the simple truth here, Alisyn, is, I understand - I understand the desire to try and blur the lines here. The issue that emerged Friday was a video that had very offensive words on it. I expressed my - I expressed my strong feelings about that.
CAMEROTA: About things he had done.
PENCE: And he's made it clear that - that those were words, not deeds.
CAMEROTA: Uh-huh.
PENCE: And the comparison to the - the - the avalanche of scandals that came out of the Clinton years that were the subject of repeated denials, and - and all - I get all of that. But at the end of the day, we've got four weeks left in this election. And there are two human beings on the ballot.
[08:55:15] CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Let's stipulate to that. But more important, there's two futures. And I've got to tell you, as I've traveled across this country over the last several months, there are people hurting across this country, Alisyn. There are people struggling to make ends meet. There are people worried about the rising dangers in the world, the rise of ISIS and terrorism in the world.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: There are people that are worried about a Supreme Court that's walking away from our most cherished constitutional traditions. And Donald Trump, last night, through this - this avalanche of - of media focus through the weekend squared his shoulders and refocused this election -
CAMEROTA: OK.
PENCE: On the issues that really matter most to the American people. And I'm proud to stand with him.
CAMEROTA: But, governor, I want to ask you about your Syria policy, because it sounded to be quite different than Donald Trump's last night. You had said that the U.S. needs to be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime. Donald Trump last night said, I haven't talked to him about it, meaning you, and, no, no, he disagrees with that. Have you talked to Donald Trump about your thoughts on Syria?
PENCE: I've talked to him about our policy. And, frankly, I got a lot of respect for Martha Raddatz, but she just misrepresented the statement that I made in my national debate, frankly, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: Well, but, I mean, what about what Donald Trump said that -
PENCE: You know, the question that I got was about Aleppo, it was about humanitarian aid.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Well, let me - if I can answer for a second.
CAMEROTA: Go ahead.
PENCE: The question I had, and you can check the transcript, so can your viewers, was about the humanitarian crisis in Aleppo, and what we ought to do. Donald Trump's position, our position has been that we need to establish safe zones and you need - you need to be willing to use - you need to be willing to use resources and including military power to secure those safe zones to allow those people, including 100,000 children, to be able to evacuate. Last night she conflated that and referred to general provocation and involvement by the Russians in the Syrian regime and, you know, Donald Trump's made it clear, our policy is safe zones for people suffering in Syria.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: But also his focus is on destroying ISIS in Syria.
CAMEROTA: Uh-huh.
PENCE: And not regime change. And I think the way she framed that was to suggest that I had implied we ought to use military power to achieve regime change.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: I simply never said that. CAMEROTA: But why do you think Donald Trump said that you haven't ever
spoken about it?
PENCE: Well, he said we hadn't spoken specifically about what she said. And the reason for that was because I - I didn't say that, the position that I took in my debate and - and I understand that. I look forward to catching up with him about it today. But the point is -
CAMEROTA: But, governor, hold on, one second, before you -
PENCE: The point is that she - she broadened it into a general -
CAMEROTA: Uh-huh.
PENCE: What does America do with Russian provocation in the Assad regime.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: I was speaking specifically about securing the safe zones. And for heaven's sakes, Alisyn, we have a humanitarian crisis there.
CAMEROTA: We sure do.
PENCE: One hundred thousand children in harm's way in Aleppo. We need to be willing, along with other nations in the region, to create a secure pathway for those people to escape Aleppo -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: Before the even more violence comes and to have a safe zone that they can repair to. You have to be willing to deploy resources, including militarily -
CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: To make that happen. And Donald Trump and I strongly support the establishment and securing of safe zones.
CAMEROTA: And, governor, just because you have said, to go back to the transcript, which I do have right in here, let me just play for everyone so that they know what the original question was in your debate and then when your original response was. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does the U.S. have a responsibility to protect civilians and prevent mass casualties on this scale, Governor Pence?
PENCE: I just have to tell you that the provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength. And - and if Russia chooses to be involved and continue, I should say to be involved in this barbaric attack on civilians in Aleppo, the United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime, to prevent them from this humanitarian crisis that is taking place in Aleppo. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Governor, we only have 20 seconds -
PENCE: Right.
CAMEROTA: In your window, but it wasn't just about safe zones. I mean you talk about the provocations by Russia being - need to be met with American strength.
PENCE: Yes, it was. Alisyn - I just - yes, I was about to thank you for playing the clip because you just confirmed everything I said to you. It's about being willing to use military force to prevent a further humanitarian crisis, to establish safe zones and allow people to escape the horrors of further barbaric action in Aleppo. Alisyn, plus, you - you cut that a little bit. There was actually more that I said there. So your folks can go back and look at the whole transcript.
But at the end of the day, Donald Trump and I stand shoulder to shoulder in this campaign. I'm honored to stand with him. I'm headed to North Carolina today and we're going to continue to present this campaign. It's a choice between two futures, a stronger America -
[09:00:06] CAMEROTA: Yes.
PENCE: At home and abroad that stands by our constitutional principles.
CAMEROTA: Got it.
Thank you, Governor Mike Pence. We did lose the window there.
