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Trump Steps Up "Rigged Election" Claims; Battle To Retake Mosul Begins. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired October 17, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The battle to retake Mosul now under way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well over 1 million civilians still remain. They are expecting the worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We do have all of that breaking news out of Mosul that we will get to shortly. Good morning everyone, welcome to your NEW DAY.

Up first, Donald Trump stepping up his claim that the election is rigged. He does not offer any evidence other than that the media is reporting on sexual assault allegations against him and conspiring with Hillary Clinton's campaign, he says. What will this mean for the election process?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Questions also about Trump's intentions as once again his running mate tries to clean it up. Governor Mike Pence says he will, quote, "absolutely accept the result of the election." So what's going on?

We also have a new poll from CNN this morning. This is a poll of polls, the average of the last major polls. And it shows what you see on your screen, Hillary Clinton widening her lead over Trump eight points right now on average, 47-39. A lot at stake just two days until the final debate, 22 days until Election Day. Those are the numbers to play in any of the lotteries. Let's begin with CNN's Phil Mattingly. Phil?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. It's all rigged. This is not in and of itself a new message from Donald Trump. But his sharpened focus on the idea that the November 8th election will be rigged, the results themselves, is a dark turn and one that is unsettling not just for Democrats and his opponents but for Republicans, those same Republicans who support Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Remember this -- it's a rigged election.

MATTINGLY: For Donald Trump there's only one reason he's trailing in the polls -- a conspiracy to keep him out of the White House.

TRUMP: The election is being rigged by corrupt media pushing completely false allegations and outright lies in an effort to elect her president.

MATTINGLY: In rally after rally, tweet after tweet, Trump pushing the theory without any evidence or recent historical precedent that the electoral results will be rigged. Trump's running mate, Mike Pence trying to tone down the rhetoric, saying Trump doesn't mean literal electoral rigging.

MIKE PENCE, (R) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will absolutely accept the results of the election. The American people are tired of the obvious bias in the national media. That's where the sense of a rigged election goes here.

MATTINGLY: But Trump undercutting that very message only minutes later, tweeting explicitly that the election is, quote, "absolutely being rigged," at quote, "many polling places." This part of a Trump Twitter storm that included multiple personal attacks against House Speaker Paul Ryan. Ryan pushing back on Trump's rigged election theory. A spokeswoman telling CNN the speaker is, quote, "fully confident the election will be carried out with integrity." Hillary Clinton's running mate Tim Kaine calling on more Republicans to speak out against Trump's allegations.

TIM KAINE, (D) VICE PRESIDENT NOMINEE: He's started to make wild claims, scorched earth claims about the election being rigged, et cetera. So we have to keep putting out a message and we need to call on everybody to speak out about the fact that we run elections and run them well here. We ask GOP leaders also to stand up for the integrity of the American electoral process.

MATTINGLY: Trump also continuing to fire back at allegations of sexual assault and unwelcomed sexual advances, now accused by nine women. Trump attacking their veracity, their character, and their looks.

TRUMP: Believe me, she would not be my first choice, that I can tell you.

MATTINGLY: And unleashing one new line of attack on Hillary Clinton, that she's taking performance enhancing drugs.

TRUMP: We should take a drug test, because I don't know what's going on with her.

MATTINGLY: The Clinton campaign calling this a shameful attempt to undermine the election.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And Chris, all eyes now really on that debate on Wednesday in Las Vegas. Both candidates actually off the trail, Donald Trump off the campaign trail doing debate prep at his Bedminster Golf Course. Hillary Clinton also off the trail, repeating what she did, at least her advisers say so successfully before the first debate, two days practicing, everybody getting ready. There's 22 days left and the debate one of the last major opportunities to showcase it all in front of the American people.

CUOMO: Did Trump just really defend against an allegation by suggesting the woman's not good-looking enough for him to have done that? I can't -- just when you think you've heard it all, Phil Mattingly, just when you think you've heard it all.

Let's discuss, Trump campaign senior adviser Jack Kingston and CNN political commentator and Hillary Clinton supporter Hilary Rosen. Mr. Kingston, thank you for joining us this morning. Do you add your name to the list of people who say yes, Donald Trump is right to say that if Hillary Clinton wins, the election result is illegitimate because it's rigged?

JACK KINGSTON, TRUMP CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Well, I don't think he was saying the result was illegitimate. I think he was saying that there is a bias out there that has been against him. And Chris, I just have to say as somebody who has been involved in this for many years, I've never seen quite the media onslaught on a particular candidate.

[08:05:03] But, you know, it's part of the territory. And, you know, as Mike Pence says, certainly we are going to accept the results of the election. But the reality is the media has been overwhelming in their prejudice against Donald Trump, whether it's good news or bad news. Just to give you an example, you just had an excellent piece on the opioid crisis.

CUOMO: Yes.

KINGSTON: On October 15th, Donald Trump outlined a plan that he has to combat this. Now, I don't know if Hillary Clinton has one or not, but that was not covered at all. It was a great, very responsible four-point plan, very positive message. Nothing in the media about it.

CUOMO: But Mr. Kingston -- whom do you blame for that? If he says an election is rigged, is he stealing his own thunder, or are you going to blame the media for ignoring that allegation, not reporting on a drug policy, when he just undermined the legitimacy of the democracy?

KINGSTON: Well, I'm going to give you another statistic.

CUOMO: OK.

KINGSTON: Watching the mainstream news coverage last week, one night, 66 minutes of coverage, one minute, actually 57 seconds devoted to WikiLeaks, 23 minutes devoted to the sexual misconduct allegations, 23 minutes versus 57 seconds. And that's just typical. Actually, sitting in a couple of different green rooms today, looking at "The New York Times," "Washington Post," "Wall Street Journal," and "USA Today" not one word about WikiLeaks. But in --

CUOMO: We report on it every hour of this three-hour show. Sometimes four hours --

KINGSTON: And you know what --

CUOMO: Every day.

KINGSTON: I would never pick on your great show and your excellent coverage. And I say that sincerely, by the way. I've been on your show as a candidate and I've always felt that you've been very balanced and I appreciate that.

But what I'm saying is here you got four newspapers, four major national newspapers, not one word on the front page about WikiLeaks. And so, you know, is there a media bias? I think the left would have to be denying reality if they did not see it. Statistically, Brent Bozell can actually back it up. And so you know, I think that there is absolutely a bias that's going on that I'm just trying to put the outcome of this election.

CUOMO: Hilary, many times when we have been off camera together in the beginning of this race you were coming after me for giving Trump to much attention, that it was too positive and that we were all over Hillary about her e-mails. So certainly there's a little bit of this normally, and there's some extraordinary factors, as well, going into this election because of what Trump presents as a candidate.

But these WikiLeaks, they are a real thing. Yes, they were probably procured illegally. But when we see for instance the Goldman Sachs information in there, and it does seem Hillary Clinton was being accommodative of the bankers, in this case Goldman Sachs when she was being paid to talk to them, is that ripe for criticism that she's not going to crack down on that?

HILARY ROSEN, HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER: Well, let me go back to the first point the congressman made, which was do we have policies to deal with these issues? Over a year ago Hillary Clinton put out a policy on the heroin crisis and was the first person of all the candidates to hold a forum in New Hampshire with people focused on heroin addiction. She's done the same thing on financial services reform. She has the toughest plan on Wall Street, endorsed by Elizabeth Warren, no softy on Wall Street. And so I think when you look at the issues, there's no question that Hillary Clinton has gone deep and wide on policy.

On WikiLeaks, I think there's a legitimate ambivalence, and I see it myself, I feel it myself, because we have seen doctored e-mails over the last few weeks where they have been fabricated, and it's hard for the media to know which of these e-mails are actually accurate and which ones have been thrown in there by -- by you know, espionage and Julian Assange and the Russians and whoever is trying to undermine this election by putting this stuff out there.

So I'll just say on the reports that I saw on her speech on Wall Street, actually, I'm not re what the big deal is. You know, for her to suggest that there are legitimate reasons to go after financial reform and to acknowledge what has been a very real politic about Wall Street reform seems completely normal to me. CUOMO: All right, Jack, what did you see in these e-mails?

ROSEN: I don't think there's anything in these e-mails that really --

CUOMO: All right.

ROSEN: -- anything other than --

CUOMO: All right, all right, Hilary, I hear your point. I take it. Jack, respond?

KINGSTON: You know the easy way to do that is just to disclose those speeches. Why doesn't she do that? I mean that would put an end to it, here's what I said to Wall Street. But she's not, because she's -- as we have found out --

CUOMO: You know what your problem is with that argument, though, Jack. That's a great argument. More disclosure. More better. I'm in the media you're never going to hear me say anything else. But where's your high ground when Trump won't put out his taxes?

[08:10:05] KINGSTON: Well, let me just say this, what we're talking about is WikiLeaks. Now, we'll go back to it. We see snide remarks about Catholics, calling Bill Richardson the "needy Latino," attacking the head of the NAACP, open borders, universal health care, a quote that says terrorism is not a threat to our nation, and then this statement by Podesta that it would have been better if a terrorist was Chris Hayes rather than a man named Farook, which underscore their, I guess, fear of using the term "radical Islamic terrorists," or "jihadist," or whatever the politically correct terminology is. I think there's a lot of things in WikiLeaks that we have to learn from.

But, again, hey, if they think they're all illegal, or they're all wrong or inaccurate, why aren't they denying it, instead of saying well you know, coming from the Russians, or we don't know if they're authentic? Why don't they just come out and say absolutely not.

CUOMO: As you know, jack, the U.S. government says they're coming from the Russians, at least this last batch, not all of WikiLeaks things, but they're saying these Clinton e-mails do come from the Russians, that is a concern. But the authenticity to Jack's point, Hilary, final point for you, no one has come out and said those aren't my e-mails. How they're used and how they're manipulated is something we have to deal with in vetting. There have been some discrepancies, but what is your response to Jack's allegation?

ROSEN: I don't -- I still don't see anything in any of these e-mails that go beyond sort of staff strategizing with various speculative issues. And I don't think there's anything that connects any policy change to what Hillary Clinton has said. And she has been very clear on the policy. And, you know, the debate this week is going to be another opportunity for Donald Trump not to step on his own story and talk about the issues, but he can't get out of his own way. You just -- and you had a surrogate on this morning, Steve King, just talking about agreeing with him on this election rigging issue. If Trump really wanted to talk about the issues, that's what he would be doing at his rallies instead of creating foaming at the mouth, you know, craziness.

CUOMO: Hilary Rosen, Jack Kingston, thank you very much for sharing each of your perspectives as always. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: All right we'll continue this conversation, Chris, because Donald Trump and his surrogates are intensifying their talk that the presidential election is rigged somehow. Is there any truth or historical content to these claims? We're going to ask our presidential historians if the facts back him up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's a rigged system and they take these lies and they put them on front pages. This is a rigged system, folks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Donald Trump continuing to make the claim that the presidential race is, quote, "rigged." He says if he loses in November it will be because the election was stolen from him. Many of his surrogates support that claim.

We have two historians on now to give us real context on this unprecedented race and this claim, CNN's presidential historian and Rice University professor, Douglas Brinkley, and Julian Zelizer, a historian and professor from Princeton University.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here. Professor Zelizer, I'll start with you. In our 240-year history, have we had rigged presidential elections and how hard would it be to rig a national presidential elections?

JULIAN ZELIZER, HISTORIAN AND PROFESSON, PRINCETON UNIVERSITY: We've had corruption in the 19th Century there was a lot of corruption in different states and different cities. There's been controversies when elections were contested and decided in Congress, which is in 1824. But it's virtually impossible in 2016 to rig an entire election. It's decentralized. It's fragmented and there's very little evidence that this could happen.

CAMEROTA: So Douglas what about the history of presidential candidates claiming that an election was stolen from them or rigged? Have you seen that?

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, you know, it's kind of the whole election rigged is very extreme. That's saying democracy utterly doesn't work. But it is true in 1960, that John F. Kennedy was able to squeak out that election beating Richard Nixon.

And there was the so-called Chicago cemetery vote, meaning people coming out for Kennedy that had already been dead, and so people will point to at that, if Illinois didn't go Kennedy perhaps that election would have been different. And in recent times we all know the problems that happened in 2000 in Florida with dangling chads --

CAMEROTA: But that wasn't rigging, right. I mean, that was a mechanical problem.

BRINKLEY: Exactly. That's the point. I mean, most of this is about mechanical problems on a precinct by precinct basis.

CAMEROTA: Douglas, about what you were talking about I do want to zero in on that what happened in Illinois because that's something that two of Donald Trump's highest level surrogates, Newt Gingrich, and Rudy Giuliani, both talked about this weekend as evidence. So let me play those for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: You look at Philadelphia, you look at St. Louis, you look at Chicago, I mean, again I'm old enough, I remember when Richard Nixon had the election stolen in 1960, and no serious historian doubts that Illinois and Texas were stolen.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: There are a few places, and not many in the swing states, there are a few places where they've been notorious for stealing votes, Pennsylvania, Chicago, places where a lot of cheating has gone on over the years. I know that from my own knowledge of busing people in from Camden. When I ran for mayor of New York City, the first time, some people voted eight and ten times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. So let's unpack some of that because that's what they're out on the campaign trail saying. So Professor Zelizer, what about what Newt said that no serious historian doubts that Illinois and Texas were stolen. What's your response?

ZELIZER: Well, actually, that's not true. In 1960 in Illinois, there's a lot of evidence that Republicans stole tickets -- stole votes downstate, so in some ways it would balance out and in Texas it's also unclear that it's through the election.

There were actually recounts in Illinois in 1960. And they didn't find that there was enough fraud to throw the election. So it's an undetermined issue, but historians don't agree that the election was thrown that way.

CAMEROTA: Douglas, what about what -- what Rudy said there that from his own experience, with his own election, that he saw people being bused in to places where they shouldn't be have been voting.

[08:20:03]BRINKLEY: Well that's Rudy's own experience. I wasn't there. What I can tell you is there are voting suppression and irregularities all throughout American history. I mean, the whole story of the south was voter suppression, having Jim Crow laws, voter literacy tests.

Jimmy Carter first ran for Senate in Georgia on a rigged election. They brought out a cemetery vote when he ran for state senator. He challenged in the court and got it reversed. So history is replete with illegal things going on during elections.

But at this point in the 21st Century to make the grandiose statement like Trump is that the election is rigged is bogus. It's anti- democratic spirit. It's anti-American at its core that there may be problems in some cities we've got to watch.

We're going to have to have more watchdogs out there, yes. But what Trump is saying is disingenuous and anti-historical.

CAMEROTA: Well, it also might be dangerous because, there are people, voters, who are -- would be so incensed if they thought that the election were stolen from him. In fact at a rally this weekend or on Thursday, an Ohio Trump supporter talked about what he would do. So let me play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BOWMAN, DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTER: I feel like Hillary needs to be taken out. If she gets into government, I'll do everything in my power to take her out of power, which if I have to be a patriot, I will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean?

BOWMAN: Take it any way you want to take it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That sounds like a threat.

BOWMAN: It's a patriot --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a physical threat?

BOWMAN: I don't know, is it?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He says take it however you want to take my threat. We should also tell you at first he was wearing a mask. He lifted the mask so that he could make that threat.

Professor Zelizer, can you give some historical context about what would happen if the day after, if one of the presidential nominees says that the election was stolen from him, how would the country respond?

ZELIZER: Well, I think given the passion that a lot of Trump supporters have for him, these can be dangerous accusations. Doug talked earlier about the south and the place we do have intimidation and violence.

The biggest record was against African-Americans in the south where people physically assaulted African-Americans trying to vote and threaten them and if this happens post-election, either to candidates, to supporters of the candidates, it would be horrendous.

So the rhetoric is very incendiary, and I think that's what people are worried about. Not just the legitimacy, in the minds of voters, but will there actually be some kind of violent response to a Hillary Clinton victory.

CAMEROTA: Doug, very quickly, what are you worried about with these claims?

BRINKLEY: That Donald Trump is going to lose, and then he's going to say he didn't really lose that the whole American system stinks and was rigged, and that he should have been president. And he's going to have about 30 percent of the voting electorate that believes that.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Douglas Brinkley, Julian Zelizer, thanks so much for giving us the historical context on all of this. We appreciate it.

BRINKLEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Now let's go to Chris.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, a pivotal battle unfolding right now in Mosul. This battle is being seen as a defining moment by U.S. authorities. What is going on there right now? We'll take you to the front lines. Stay with NEW DAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:27:24]

CAMEROTA: OK, we do have breaking news for you now on what could be ISIS' last stand in Iraq. Iraqi forces are launching the much- anticipated battle for Mosul. That's the last ISIS stronghold in the country.

CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh and his team are on the front lines and they are already coming under fire. They filed this report for us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Behind me now has just gone in what must surely be a substantial explosion. We haven't been hearing aircraft in the past few moments so that may be one of a number of car bombs that ISIS has been employing in their bid to keep the Peshmerga off this road.

It is a volatile situation, and it is also one in which Peshmerga at this stage appear to be prevailing. They've taken this five or six kilometer stretch of the roads here. But the villages around it do still remain volatile.

And that is a question, what kind of resistance will they continue to face. The military, too, at some point will have to push down here towards Mosul. But this has been an effort with much international support. A lot of coalition planning. American air power -- what are they shooting at? Let's move.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CAMEROTA: OK, obviously very frightening situation there. Nick Paton Walsh is on the front lines bringing us exactly how the battle is already unfolding.

Why is Mosul so important when it comes to the fight against ISIS? Here this morning with us to talk about it is CNN terrorism analyst and editor-in-chief of CTC Sentinel, Paul Cruickshank, and CNN global affairs analyst and contributing writer for "The Daily Beast," Kimberly Dozier.

Kimberly, I want to start with you. You've reported obviously in war zones like this. What do you see already from Nick Paton Walsh's reporting there?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, you're seeing the villages around Mosul, they haven't reached the outskirts of the city itself. They've got a number of villages to take and in every single one, you've got ISIL fighters, Daesh fighters, who are going to be the holdouts.

Now U.S. officials think a lot of the leaders have already fled, moved back to Raqqah, leaving a force behind that will likely fight to the death. So while the Iraqi Army has been leafleting Mosul and telling people to get out of the way, Daesh, ISIS doesn't want them to escape because as in other cities that they've held they're likely going to use these civilians like human shields.

CAMEROTA: Paul, why is Mosul so important --