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State Department: "No Proof" Of Quid Pro Quo; State Department On Russia Halting Airstrikes In Aleppo; Fact-Checking Trump's "Rigged" Election Claims; Syrian Refugee Family Starts Over In The U.S.; Blogger Challenges Stereotypes About Muslim Women. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 18, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] JOHN KIRBY, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Now, I can't speak for the individual who said this is an interview. And remember, Chris, what we're talking about are notes from interviews. We're not talking about this document that you're talking about that that guy released. It's not facts, it's not conclusions, it's not investigative results, it's notes from an interview.Again, I can't speak to that individual and their recollections.

What I can tell you is both the FBI and the State Department looked at this. We looked at it independently and found absolutely nothing wrong and nothing happened. In fact, the FBI put out a lengthy statement, more lengthy than mine, about this phone conversation and what it was and, more importantly, what it wasn't.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Chaffetz says it's not like this was quick, it went up the food chain. It was being negotiated, it was being discussed, and for that -- for me, we believe that is a violation of law and that Kennedy engaged in those activities and that is wrong.

KIRBY: Well, I don't know what he meant by it was being discussed. If what the congressman means is what we were discussing --

CUOMO: He classified this email and this other issue about billeting extra security is on the table.

KIRBY: No -- again, no bargain was sought and in the context of these conversations there was never a quid pro quo sought or even discussed. There were, however, two conversations, both of them legitimate. Look, it's not unusual for other agencies who have positions in our embassies to talk to us about more billets, more resources. That happens all the time.

It's also no unusual, through the course of the release of 55,000 pages of emails, that we were going to have conversations with our colleagues in the interagency agency about the degree of classification. We didn't agree with the FBI on this. We lost the argument, it stayed secret.

There were also conversations that we had with the intel community. We didn't win every one of those either. But you would have to think that there has to be that kind of conversation. There's not only nothing wrong with that, it's a healthy, vibrant way of discussing how we're going to release documents through FOIA. It's the absolutely right thing to do.

CUOMO: The problem is this agent saying that there was a quid pro quo in play. I mean, why would he say that if he didn't have any reason to say it?

KIRBY: I can't -- I can't speak for that individual, Chris.

CUOMO: All right.

KIRBY: All I can tell you is the FBI, themselves, said there was no quid pro quo sought and certainly none delivered.

CUOMO: Do you believe that the ceasefire in Syria is holding right now? That Russia is not bombing additionally?

KIRBY: Well, these are early reports, Chris. I'm glad you asked the question. I mean, certainly, we're gratified to hear the reports that there might have been a reduction here in the violence. It's a little too soon to tell how genuine this is and how long it's going to last.

We've seen these kinds of commitments and promises before and just as likely we've seen them broken, so we're watching this very closely. Again, it's a welcomed announcement. Now we have to see if they can actually put the muscle behind it.

Donald Trump says I could see myself meeting with Russia before my administration begins. I have the statement up on the screen right now. "I think I could see myself meeting with Putin and meeting with Russia prior to the start of the administration. I think it would be wonderful." Good idea, bad idea?

KIRBY: It's not for me to give any of the candidates political advice. We don't do that here at the State Department. What we're focused on here is our relationship with Russia, which is complicated. I mean, there are things we absolutely don't agree with them on and you heard the secretary in London just the other day was very strong about our concerns about what they're doing in Aleppo.

There are also things that we can cooperate with them on, like the Iran deal, like climate change, and we're going to continue to do that, too. But our -- we're focused on the conversations that we're having with Russian leaders now and we'll leave it to the next president and commander in chief to determine how they're going to relate to Russia going forward.

CUOMO: Quick take -- I haven't spoken to you since Christiane sat down with Lavrov, the foreign minister for Russia.

KIRBY: Right.

CUOMO: The perception from that interview was that Russia doesn't care what the U.S. wants. They are not scared of the U.S. and they will do what they want when they want, and they fear no recrimination.

KIRBY: I think that's a very simplistic view here and I'm certainly not going to speak for what Russia's afraid of or not. We're not interested in having an adversarial relationship with Russia. We're interested in having a more cooperative relationship with Russia. That is OK on some fronts -- it's easy to do like on climate change, like I said. It's much more difficult on others.

And their actions in Ukraine, their illegal annexation of Crimea, their continued onslaught and siege of Aleppo are unacceptable. They're reprehensible and the secretary talked about that again just the other day. And those are the issues that we're going to continue to try work through here.

Now, because of what they've done, Chris, we have ceased bilateral engagement on Syria with the Russians. The meeting in Switzerland just the other day was a multilateral setting. It wasn't just the United States and Russia. And we're not ready to sit back down at the table with them and have any kind of meaningful discussions about what's going on in Syria -- Aleppo -- until they prove that they're willing to meet their commitments, which is to stop the bombing.

So back to your first question. We've seen this announcement that they're -- that they're willing to do a temporary ceasefire and we'll see where it goes.

CUOMO: John Kirby, thank you for being on NEW DAY, appreciate it.

KIRBY: Thanks, Chris. Good to be with you.

CUOMO: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Chris, Donald Trump says this election is rigged so we will fact-check the issue of voter fraud, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:38:20] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They even want to try to rig the election at the polling booths. And believe me, there's a lot going on. Do you ever hear these people? They say there's nothing going on. People that have died 10 years ago are still voting. Illegal immigrants are voting. I mean, where are the street-smarts of some of these politicians?

RALLYGOER: They don't have any.

D. TRUMP: They don't have any is right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was Donald Trump doubling down on his claim that the election is rigged and that if he loses Democrats, the Clintons, and the media have carried out one big conspiracy. But is there widespread voter fraud in America?

Here to discuss and debunk any myths -- Katie Sanders is the deputy editor of "PolitiFact" and Chris Ashby is a Republican campaign lawyer with Ashby Law, who has a lot to say about this. Welcome to both of you.

Katie, I want to start with you. Let's get the facts on voter fraud. You have looked into this. What have you found about whether or not voter fraud and widespread voter fraud exists?

KATIE SANDERS, DEPUTY EDITOR, POLITIFACT: Voter fraud is rare. This is not what you've heard from Donald Trump this week or even a few months ago when he said a similar claim. But unlike what he said, voter fraud is exceedingly rare and there are multiple studies backing up that fact.

CAMEROTA: You voted to --

SANDERS: So, actually, we rated his statement --

CAMEROTA: Go ahead.

SANDERS: We rated what he said "Pants on Fire" which is our worst rating for statements made by politicians.

CAMEROTA: And that's because what you found is that there are just only isolated incidents and that it's so rare that it was "Pants on Fire"? I mean, why did you go to that extreme?

[07:40:00] SANDERS: Well, he said it's happening on a large scale on and before Election Day, and there's just no evidence to back that up. When we contacted the campaign they sent us a few reports about sloppy bookkeeping on the part of local election supervisors who have had people on the ballot rolls who have died. But it's not happening in person at the polls to the extent that the he says.

CAMEROTA: OK. Chris, you are a Republican.

CHRIS ASHBY, GOP CAMPAIGN LAWYER, ASHBY LAW: Yes.

CAMEROTA: You're a campaign lawyer. You were so incensed by these words of Donald Trump that you sort of launched out this tweet storm in the past couple of days. You sent out 33 tweets. I'll read one of them here. You say "Ordinary citizens, not government bureaucrats, serve as election officials and conduct the election. They check-in voters, they confirm I.D.'s, they keep the records." Why did you feel so exercised by his claims?

ASHBY: Well, I think as a lawyer and, particularly for me as a Republican lawyer, I have an obligation to the rule of law and to our system of laws, and the voting system is one part of that. And in this case, Donald Trump's attacks on our system of voting are unfounded and they're dangerous. And I thought that somebody needed to put that out there and I thought that I had the experience of observing elections for 15 years and representing candidates to say what I knew.

CAMEROTA: And so, when you say they're dangerous, what do you mean? What could happen if people think that there's voter fraud?

ASHBY: Well, one thing that you've seen Donald Trump and his surrogates do is they're seizing on these isolated incidents of voter fraud that Katie mentioned. And they're conflating that with the rigging of the system and they telling people -- they're telling their supporters to go to the polls and watch in certain places, as they call them.

And when these people show up at the polls they're going to find out that they're not actually allowed in the polls in most states. In the states where they are allowed in they're not going to be allowed near voters. They're not going to be allowed near the election officials.

And if they try to interfere with voting, if they try to communicate with voters or election officials, they going to be removed. And that's going to play into the suspicions they have that there's something going on in there that they're not supposed to see, and that's just not the case.

And I think on Election Day, played out in polling places across the country, and then amplified on the news and the Internet and social media, this really has the potential to have a destabilizing effect on the orderly administration of the election.

CAMEROTA: And yet, Katie and Chris, we all hear the stories of dead people having voted. Of the entire starting lineup of the Dallas Cowboys having voted in some -- you know, in Texas in some elections. So, Katie, when you looked into this, I mean, are these urban myths or do these things happen?

SANDERS: I think in isolated cases you do see examples of it happening, but I think that the key point is that it's not always intentional. I think we found one example of a dead person who was marked as voting but it's because his name was so similar to another person -- a dead person who was on the rolls -- that they errantly checked his name.

And when we've talked to experts they've really pressed that point that there are maybe -- I think there was a Loyola study that said there were 31 substantial cases of voter fraud but those weren't 31 prosecutions. And that's looking at elections since 2000 and more than one billion votes cast. So it's very difficult to prove that in- person voter fraud has actually occurred.

CAMEROTA: So, Chris, I mean, when you say that you really worry that this will have a destabilizing and dangerous effect, what happens if Donald Trump loses and people feel as though the election was stolen or they feel as though they were disenfranchised somehow?

ASHBY: Well, that's an attack on the legitimacy of our government and the legitimacy of the representatives and leaders who we elect because public faith and confidence in our electoral system is foundational to our government. And so, what I think people need to know is that the system is not rigged.

It's quite the opposite. It's designed to stop this, to prevent it, to catch it, and to guard against it. And instances of voter fraud, which do happen, are not the same thing as a rigging of the system. A rigging of the system is intentional and by design. And what Trump is saying is that the system has been corrupted,

people's votes don't matter and they won't count because someone else has already predetermined the outcome of the election. That's what a rigged election is. It's the opposite of a free election. And that's just not the case in the United States of America.

CAMEROTA: Chris Ashby, Katie Sanders, thanks so much for the facts and for bringing them to us this morning.

ASHBY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Chris --

CUOMO: Well, we've heard a lot during this campaign about allowing Syrian refugees into the U.S., but you don't hear that much about who these people are. Up next, we're going to introduce you to a Syrian refugee family. They're going to talk about their journey to the States and what they are enduring. You should watch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:48:30] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: With all the problems this country has and all of the problems that you see going on, hundreds of thousands of people coming in from Syria where we know nothing about them. We know nothing about their values and we know about their love for our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, that was Donald Trump talking about Syrian refugees but he got some things wrong. There are 10,000, not hundreds of thousands of them, who have been relocated this year to the U.S., and they go through a long vetting process involving several agencies and it can take up to two years.

So who are these Syrian refugees? Well, we spent a day with a Syrian family who is trying to rebuild their lives here in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Maryam and Fadel arrived in the U.S. a year ago with their four young sons after escaping war in Syria. They wanted to protect their children from airstrikes hitting close to their house and from the psychological damage of witnessing death and destruction. First, the family made it to a refugee camp in Jordan, but they say the situation there was appalling.

MARYAM, SYRIAN REFUGEE RESETTLED IN U.S. (through translator): My kids were beaten many times in Jordan. My son, Ibrahim, has scars on both arms and on his leg. I wish we never went to Jordan and that I came straight to the U.S. from Syria.

CAMEROTA: After three years of violence and unspeakable conditions at the refugee camp, Maryam's family was chosen by the U.N. for relocation to the U.S. MARYAM (through translator): We initially said no because we didn't have the money to move forward with this plan, but they assured us it was OK and told us that we would have jobs when we got to the U.S.

[07:50:05] CAMEROTA: Last September, they arrived in New Jersey without money, job prospects, or a word of English. But they did meet two unexpected friends, Kate McCaffrey and Melina Macall, women who felt a deep desire to help the refugees.

KATE MCCAFFREY, ANTHROPOLOGY PROFESSOR, MONTCLAIR STATE UNIVERSITY: Syria is a country -- a country that's full of diverse people -- doctors, nurses, welders, all kinds of people -- grandparents -- and we've demonized an entire nation of people on the basis of fear of a few. And they just want an opportunity to have an ordinary life. To work, to go to school, to have a meal with their families. And they just want a degree of normality.

CAMEROTA: Melina remembers the moment that she was compelled to take action when she heard the governor of her state say that 5-year-old Syrian orphans could not be trusted.

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: The fact is that we need appropriate vetting, and I don't think orphans under five are being -- you know, should be admitted into the United States at this point.

MELINA MACALL, FORMER PROFESSOR AT MONTCLAIR STATE UNIVERSITY: It just seemed too outrageous and heinous. He doesn't represent me and he doesn't represent many other people. Just try and imagine your day-to-day life and then suddenly everything you know being torn away from you. And then you finally find refuge somewhere and you're treated like a pariah.

CAMEROTA: Kate and Melina were so incensed by the political rhetoric that they came up with an idea -- throw a series of dinners at their synagogue. It would be an interesting melding of faiths. Syrian Muslims breaking bread with a Jewish congregation. One of the dinners was on Christmas night. That's where they met Maryam.

MACALL: She just had this twinkle in her eye and this great smile, and just warmth emanating from her. And she was definitely one of the personalities that shown in that evening without any exchange of words at all.

CAMEROTA: Maryam and Fadel could not communicate in English but they had something important they wanted to say about that gathering so they used Google translate on their cellphone.

MCCAFFREY: It said, I am in a haven of peace and tranquility.

MARYAM (through translator): I remember when they first came to visit us. I was so happy that American people came to welcome us.

CAMEROTA: Despite that warm welcome and their new friends, life in the U.S. has not been easy, starting with a $7,000 fee -- a reimbursement --that the U.S. charged Maryam and Fadel for the family's air travel. MCCAFFREY: They were faced with this onerous monthly payment for the transportation loan so we decided to turn that around and we launched a campaign to raise $7,000 in seven days, and we were thrilled to be able to do that in less than 72 hours.

CAMEROTA: Fadel is a welder by trade but he has not been able to find work in the U.S. At the moment, they rely on government assistance to pay for their food and rent.

MARYAM (through translator): The one thing I hope for is to be constantly employed. We need a steady job. It's true we don't speak the language but our English will get better as we keep working.

CAMEROTA: And there's the emotional cost of moving thousands of miles from home. Maryam misses her friends and family who are still in Syria and still in danger.

MARYAM (through translator): Both my parents are sick.

MCCAFFREY: This is one of the hard things is that with cellphones they are in contact with their families and they can see terrible things happening.

CAMEROTA: Still, Maryam tries to focus on the positive.

MARYAM (through translator): I am overjoyed that my kids are going to school. This is the most important thing in the whole world for me.

CAMEROTA: What do you want your fellow Americans who are watching to know about this entire experience?

MCCAFFREY: We have a large country. We have been built on immigrants -- of people fleeing persecution -- and we encourage people to remember those American values.

MARYAM (through translator): We came to the U.S. and all of the country is welcoming us, thanks to God. We didn't expect that all the different faith groups would welcome us. Everyone made us feel wanted.

MACALL: When somebody new comes into your neighborhood just reach out a hand and your little -- your little action just means the world to someone else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: So, joining us now to discuss this is a woman on the front lines of trying to fight Islamophobia in our current political climate. Amani Al-Khatahtbeh is the founder and editor-in-chief of muslimgirl.com. That's the top Muslim blog for women in the U.S. She is out today with a new book. It is called "Muslim Girl: A Coming of Age". Amani, thanks so much for being here.

AMANI AL-KHATAHTBEH, AUTHOR, "MUSLIM GIRL: A COMING OF AGE": Thank you for having me here. CAMEROTA: So, it was really eye-opening for me to go and spend the day with this Muslim family and I was -- I really came away with pretty intense mixed feelings. They're so warm and lovely and welcoming and kind and yet, they're in a really tough position having relocated here with no English and no jobs. What do you see when you watch their plight?

[07:55:10] AL-KHATAHTBEH: To be honest, watching that segment made me think what is America, if not the land of freedom and opportunity and tolerance? You know, just like we saw with them breaking bread with a Jewish family. I think that really epitomizes the struggle right now, is that we have to just really bond over the fact that we're all human beings and really just open our doors in that way.

CAMEROTA: And yet, on a practical level, the idea that they don't have money and they don't have jobs and they don't speak English -- I mean, is this a situation that is ripe for alienation and resentment on both sides?

AL-KHATAHTBEH: I think that it is definitely a huge potential for alienation, of course. I mean, they're coming into a society where the lightning rod of contention right now in our election is whether or not they should be even allowed here. And, of course, I think that a lot of misunderstandings of most Americans breeds some contempt for that, as well. But that's why it's really important for us to extend our hands and reach out and really just get to know people.

CAMEROTA: So, for voters, and particularly Donald Trump supporters, who are nervous about letting people in who seem different and who don't speak a word of English -- I mean, what do you say to them?

AL-KHATAHTBEH: I mean, Donald Trump wouldn't be here today if his grandparents didn't immigrate here, right, so that's really how our country has been built. It's been built by immigrants. And for Muslims especially, you know, the PDS (ph) released a study where they said that 10 to 15 percent of slaves that literally came here on boats in America were Muslims. They literally built this country.

So, of course, we belong here. And the fact that we're only spoken about in the context of this refugee crisis or as outsiders or as immigrants is simply, you know, inaccurate.

CAMEROTA: And, of course -- I mean, I know, having read your book and your blog, you're also very incensed that, often, you're spoken about in terms of terrorism. And even when they're not painting you with a broad brush there is a feeling of if only peaceful Muslims would speak out about the radicals in their midst this problem would be solved. What is the error in thinking there?

AL-KHATAHTBEH: It inherently implicates the Muslim people as a whole for terrorism, rather than looking at it as an individualistic act. And, of course, it's to keep in mind the context that there's 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. So the majority of us -- yes, not only do we speak out against terrorism, but we actually don't -- like, we have nothing to do with that. So the fact that we're expected to constantly speak to it is, I think, very dehumanizing. CAMEROTA: And also -- I mean, people in Muslim communities do call the police all the time --

AL-KHATAHTBEH: All the time.

CAMEROTA: -- even on their own children --

AL-KHATAHTBEH: All the time.

CAMEROTA: -- and on their neighbors. They do it all the time. The idea that this isn'thappening is also a misconception.

AL-KHATAHTBEH: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: I want to read just one little portion from your book because you talk about how your lives, as a whole, have changed since 9/11. "After 9/11, it was like a curtain had been pulled back on my family, casting them into a spotlight, and revealing them to a world that seemed to have always been festering behind a thin veil." Is that how you still feel today?

AL-KHATAHTBEH: Unfortunately, yes, you know. I think that, especially with the current election cycle, that curtain has been pulled back even more and we really see just the underlying sentiments that exist within America towards people that are different from us or that seem different, and it's really difficult. You know, the fact that there are civil rights organizations saying that Islamophobia today hasn't been this high of a level since immediately after 9/11. It's like I think that we should be progressing forward rather than slipping backwards and getting even worse.

CAMEROTA: Well, Amani, thanks so much for having this conversation with us here on NEW DAY today. And the book, again, is "Muslim Girl". It's a fascinating read for everyone who's interested. Thanks so much.

AL-KHATAHTBEH: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news this morning so let's get right to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

D. TRUMP: This is a criminal act -- a conspiracy.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump is unqualified and unfit, and every single day his campaign proves that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to reassure Donald Trump the system is not rigged.

MELANIA TRUMP, WIFE OF DONALD TRUMP: He was lead on -- egg on from the host to say dirty and bad stuff.

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I have no doubt the national media is trying to rig this election. M. TRUMP: Don't feel sorry for me. I can handle everything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to your NEW DAY. Donald Trump doubling down on claims of a rigged election, even blasting Republican leaders who deny his allegations of large-scale voter fraud because there is no proof.

This comes as new documents were released by the FBI and they show a State Department official pressing the Bureau to declassify an email about Benghazi.

CAMEROTA: Also, Melania Trump speaking out in a new interview with CNN. She says that her husband was egged on to say those lewd comments and she believes that Trump never assaulted his accusers.

We are one day away from the final debate and 21 days until the election.

Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Manu Raju, live in Vegas. What's the latest, Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Good morning, Alisyn. Donald Trump's path to 270 electoral votes is getting increasingly narrow as polls continue to show him losing nationally and in a lot of these key battleground states.