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Fact-Checking Claims In The Final Debate; Trump & Clinton Confront Controversies At Debate; Undecided Voters Sound Off On Debate; Trump Refuses To Say He'll Accept Election Results. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired October 20, 2016 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMRECIAL BREAK)

[05:30:55] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Sometimes we can lose sight of this, but the facts do matter and the real answers to questions often come after the debate because that's when the fact-checkers go to work. This morning, we're putting some of the noteworthy claims made by Clinton and Trump to the truth test.

CNN's Christine Romans joins us now with more. What did you see, my friend?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Well, one of the things the candidates went toe-to-toe over, nuclear issues -- nuclear weapons, rather. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a person who has been very cavalier, even casual, about the use of nuclear weapons.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Wrong.

CLINTON: He's advocated more countries getting them -- Japan, Korea, even Saudi Arabia. He's said well, if we have them why don't we use them, which I think is terrifying.

TRUMP: This is just another lie.

CLINTON: Well, I'm just quoting you when you were asked about a potential nuclear --

TRUMP: There's no quote. You're not going to find a quote from me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: OK, well, let's look at their record. You heard it there, Trump denying he ever advocated for the expansion of nuclear weapons worldwide. However, back in March, Trump said it might be OK if some countries, friendly to the U.S., had nukes -- nations that don't have them now. He said, "If Japan had that nuclear threat, I'm not sure that would be a bad thing for us."

And then, a couple of months later he told CNN he's "Ready to let Japan and South Korea become nuclear powers." He has also spoken against nuclear proliferation, of course, but bottom line, he says he has never advocated an expansion of nuclear weapons in the world. And our verdict on that -- clearly, that is false.

Donald Trump was also asked about abortion and the Supreme Court. Listen to this exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WALLACE, DEBATE MODERATOR: Do you want to see the Court overturn Roe v. Wade?

TRUMP: Well, if we put another two or, perhaps, three justices on that's really what's going to be -- that will happen and that will happen automatically, in my opinion, because I am putting pro-life justices on the Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: So, will Trump's Supreme Court nominees automatically overrule Roe v. Wade like he claims? Well, let's look at history. To check this we looked back. Both Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush appointed justices who they believed would overrule the 1973 decision. However, three of those appointees -- justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Anthony Kennedy, David Souter famously voted to preserve the Roe decision in 1992. So based on that, our verdict -- that claim is false.

Even if a president Trump were only to appoint pro-life justices there's simply no way to ensure that any particular decision, including Roe, would be automatically overruled.

If you want to see all of these, guys -- for a check of all last night's reality checks go to cnn.com/reality check.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Great job, Christine.

ROMANS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for showing us all of that. And we should note that we will look at Clinton's claims in our next hour.

So both candidates, of course, were forced to face some of the controversies that have been looming over their campaigns, from hacked emails to sexual assault allegations. How did they address those? We will talk controversies with both sides, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:38:05] CAMEROTA: Both Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton went into the final debate with controversies. Number one, for Clinton, those WikiLeaks revelations, and did she say in there that she wants open borders?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CLINTON: Well, if you went on to read the rest of the sentence, I was talking about energy. You know, we trade more energy with our neighbors than we trade with the rest of the world combined. And I do want us to have an electric grid -- an energy system that crosses borders. I think that would be a great benefit to us.

But you are very clearly quoting from WikiLeaks, and what's really important about WikiLeaks is that the Russian government has engaged in espionage against Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, let's talk controversies with our CNN political commentators. We have John Phillips. He's a Trump supporter who is a talk radio host and a political columnist for the "OC Register". And, Symone Sanders. She's a Clinton supporter who was the national press secretary for Bernie Sanders' primary campaign. Great to have both of you.

JOHN PHILLIPS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: John, I'll start with you. How do you think Hillary Clinton addressed the question of WikiLeaks and whether or not she was actually in favor of open borders? You heard her argument there -- well, I meant open energy borders.

PHILLIPS: Yes, I guess Brazilian bankers are her Billy Bush. That's where we had our -- not Billy Bush --

CAMEROTA: You mean the audiotape?

PHILLIPS: Yes, yes, yes. Billy Bush -- I got the right one. I almost called him Jeb -- wrong Bush. Look, it was a moment of clarity for her. She is for open borders. What we saw in that speech from WikiLeaks was the truth.

CAMEROTA: But she says she's not for open immigration borders with people flowing in and out of the -- across the borders. So, did you like -- I mean, did you think it was effective that she pivoted away from that?

PHILLIPS: Well, she's not on the debate stage, but among friends she is. I mean, look at her policies. I mean, there are serious differences between her and Donald Trump. I mean, she essentially does want some form of amnesty. She doesn't want to crack down on cities that believe in sanctuary city policy, so I do think that is her position.

[05:40:05] CAMEROTA: OK. Symone, what did you hear because what she did was she pivoted to well, let's look at the source, let's consider the source. You need to -- here's what you need to know about WikiLeaks. How effective was that?

SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I -- you know, I think that she got -- she's getting a little bit of flack for pivoting to the Russians, but I think it's a really important point that we can't ignore that the Russians are meddling in our elections. And the WikiLeaks -- it is a criminal act. And so --

CAMEROTA: But did she explain -- I mean, the controversy that John is talking about. Did she explain whether or not she is absolutely against open borders?

SANDERS: I think she effectively said no, she's not. She is not for open borders. I think she was -- again, she was talking about energy. The question that Donald Trump was -- the question that he's alluding to and his supporters are alluding to is about open immigration borders. That is absolutely not true and I think it's very important that, you know, in the aftermath of this debate that we are talking about the facts because facts matter.

CAMEROTA: OK.

SANDERS: She's not for open immigration borders. Now, she did note that she was talking about energy.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

SANDERS: But I think, again, it's really important to also look at the source of these WikiLeaks. Like, look, if people were physically -- hello, Watergate, anybody? If people were physically running around breaking into the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton headquarters we would have an issue.

CAMEROTA: OK, she made that point. Let's talk about Donald Trump's controversy that he went into the debate with and that was the allegations of these women who have come forward to say that he sexually assaulted or made advances on them. So look at how he addressed this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: First of all, those stories have been largely debunked. Those people -- I don't know those people. I have a feeling how they came. I believe it was her campaign that did it. I would say the only way -- because those stories are all totally false. I have to say that.

And I didn't even apologize to my wife, who's sitting right here, because I didn't do anything. I didn't know any of these women. I didn't see these women. These women -- the woman on the plane, the woman -- I think they want either fame or her campaign did it, and I think it's her campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK. Well, first of all, some of that is demonstrably false. He does know the "PEOPLE" magazine reporter. She did a profile on he and his wife. How did you think that he handled that, John?

PHILLIPS: That was another pivot. And I think he missed an opportunity, frankly, but not just at the debate, he missed an opportunity before. One of the things we learned in the 2008 campaign when President Obama

had the whole Jeremiah Wright controversy happen, was he had an address before the nation. He told the nation exactly where he was coming from. It was a moment of honesty -- a moment of him opening up with the country and I thought that served himself well.When it came up later on he said look, that's old news, I've already discussed it, I've already addressed it.

CAMEROTA: But how could Trump have taken a page from that? Say yes, I have done these things to women?

PHILLIPS: Well, he has to give some kind of explanation. I mean, right now, essentially, is what he's doing is he's just denying it, and denying it, and denying it and more women are coming out, and then you end up with the question begin posed at the debate like that. I think if he handled it the right way he could have put this -- put this -- put this baby to bed long ago.

CAMEROTA: But, just one more time, what would that right way have been? What would he have said about these women who say that he sexually assaulted them?

PHILLIPS: Well, look -- I mean, you can address the tape on "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD". If his position is that he didn't know these women, he never had any encounters with these women, he didn't do anything with that, you can maintain that. But you still have to have a moment of honesty, a moment of clarity on the tape, which he never really did.

CAMEROTA: What did you think about how he addressed it?

SANDERS: I thought Donald Trump came off very insensitive. And it was interesting because the challenges -- he wanted folks to believe Bill Clinton's accusers but he wants everyone to think that anyone that came out to accuse him is absolutely just out to get him, and I don't think that was really effective. And I think people are looking back to just the last debate right before when Donald Trump trotted those women out.

So I thought he came off insensitive and he was really contradictory. Melania Trump, on this network, said that her husband apologized to her.

PHILLIPS: Well, she -- he apologized about the "Access Hollywood" tape.

SANDERS: Well, Donald Trump said he didn't even apologize to his wife because he didn't do it.

CAMEROTA: It was a little confusing --

SANDERS: It was very confusing.

CAMEROTA: -- that moment of I didn't even apologize to my wife. Why say that? I mean, what was the point of that line?

SANDERS: Exactly. So, I didn't think he came off well and I -- for those women, again -- those moderate Republican women who do vote -- those white women that have kept the Republican Party afloat -- I don't think that made them want to vote for Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: OK. Very quickly, I want to talk about the Clinton Foundation. That came up, as well. There have been accusations against Hillary Clinton -- against the Clinton Foundation and the State Department that there was some sort of pay-to-play or access. Here's how they addressed it last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And why isn't what happened and what went on between you and the Clinton Foundation -- why isn't it what Mr. Trump calls pay-to- play?

CLINTON: Well, everything I did as Secretary of State was in furtherance of our country's interests and our values. The State Department has said that. I think that's been proven. But I am happy. In fact, I'm thrilled to talk about the Clinton Foundation because it is a world-renowned charity and I am so proud of the work that it does.

WALLACE: Respectfully, this is -- this is an open discussion.

CLINTON: Well, it is an open discussion and --

WALLACE: I understand, and the specific went to pay-for-play. Do you want to talk about that, Mr. Trump?

CLINTON: Well, but there is no -- there is no evidence --

TRUMP: Well, I think -- look, I think that it's been very well studied.

CLINTON: But there is --

WALLACE: Let's ask Mr. Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[05:45:00] CAMEROTA: OK, so what happened there was Chris Wallace was pressing her, please answer the question about pay-to-play and Donald Trump sort of stepped on it. What did you think of that moment?

PHILLIPS: That's right, he should have hit her harder. She was on the ropes. This is an election about impulse control. Her argument against him is that he can't control himself on Twitter at 3:00 in the morning. His argument against her is she can't keep herself from selling influence through the Clinton Foundation.

CAMEROTA: And so you think that he missed an opportunity?

PHILLIPS: Yes, because her impulses are to do that.

CAMEROTA: OK, and did she explain it well enough, Symone? SANDERS: I think Hillary Clinton -- look, she has been clear. There has been no pay-to-play and that's the answer that the Clinton campaign has given before this debate. She was very consistent in her answer. I think Chris Wallace was looking for something a little bit deeper. He wanted her to go into a better explanation and I think Hillary Clinton -- she stayed on it. She said no, there's no pay-to- play and I'm not going to get into the weeds on that.

CAMEROTA: And should she send Donald Trump a thank you this morning for stepping on that moment since she didn't have to get in the weeds?

SANDERS: I think somebody could send an edible arrangement down to Donald Trump's office.

CAMEROTA: That sounds good. John, Symone, thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, it was a party in name only. A group of still- undecided voters gathering to watch the debate and CNN is there. Did the candidates change minds? Answers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:50:25] CUOMO: Nevada is considered a battleground state. The latest poll in that state has Hillary Clinton with a seven-point lead over Trump but will that change post-debate?

CNN's Randi Kaye watched the debate with some undecided voters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris and Alisyn. Both of the candidates had some high points in our group's opinion. One of them was from Donald Trump when he was talking about securing the borders. Listen to this.

TRUMP: -- but they're in line and they're waiting to become citizens. Very unfair that somebody runs across the border, becomes a citizen. Under her plan, you have open borders. You would have a disaster on trade and you will have a disaster with your open borders.

WALLACE: I want to --

CLINTON: Well, we will --

TRUMP: But what she doesn't say is that President Obama has deported millions and millions of people just the way it is.

WALLACE: Secretary --

KAYE: That sound bite really resonated with a lot of folks here, including Myra. Why was that important to you to hear Donald Trump talking about not wanting open borders, like he says Hillary Clinton does, but closed borders?

MYRA: There are so many people who come across the borders and they severely impact the services of Texas. It needs to be changed so that the borders are closed.

KAYE: OK, that's one opinion. And, as I mentioned, Hillary Clinton also had a high point where she was talking about defending Planned Parenthood. That really did well with this group here. Watch this moment.

CLINTON: I will defend Planned Parenthood, I will defend Roe v. Wade, and I will defend women's rights to make their own health care decisions --

WALLACE: Secretary Clinton --

CLINTON: -- and we have come too far to have that turn back now. And, indeed, he said women should be punished. That there should be some form of punishment for women who obtain abortions and I could just not be more opposed to that kind of thinking.

KAYE: So there you have it. Hillary Clinton talking about defending Planned Parenthood, defending a woman's right to make her own health care decisions. That was important to you, Natalie. You liked that.

NATALIE: Yes, because I just don't believe that the government should have anything to do with a woman's right, definitely as far as bearing a child and also, that Planned Parenthood -- it comes with a lot of other things like mammograms. And I'd really want to know what anatomy class that Trump went to think that that's how it's performed -- to be ripped out. That's ridiculous.

KAYE: And that moment actually did well with men in our group. Asha, what did you think?

ASHA: I believe that with Planned Parenthood the government does not have a role with the family's decision as to what goes on in the family. It should -- family is family, government is government. Let it be.

KAYE: And, of course, the clock is ticking. We're getting closer and closer to Election Day, so we wanted to know who our group thought won this debate. So, here we go. Let's see, with a show of hands, how many of you thought Hillary Clinton won? One, two, three -- quick count. Gives me 11 of you. How many of you thought Donald Trump won? OK, a couple less, nine of you. And how many of you thought it was a draw? Natalie, right here, thought it was a draw.

All right, of the Clinton supporters here who thought that Clinton won the debate, in one word -- Zeke, to you first, here -- what's the word? Why do you think she won?

ZEKE: Believable.

KAYE: Believable. And you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Facts.

KAYE: Facts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Truth.

KAYE: Truth. All right, there you have it. As they're getting closer to making up their minds, they're certainly taking in the debate and trying to figure out just who they're going to vote for. Chris, Alisyn, back to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: That is really insightful. I mean, did you hear them? They want facts and the truth. You know, we've been talking about how -- so much how this election can be, at times, a fact-free zone.

CUOMO: They're watching the wrong race.

CAMEROTA: The voters want facts and the truth and that's what we try to do every day. So we continue to break down the final presidential debate. Up next, how will Donald Trump's refusal to say that he will accept the election outcome go over with voters? Our panel breaks down his refusal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[05:58:25] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: Donald thinks belittling women makes him bigger.

TRUMP: These women -- I think they want either fame or her campaign did it, and I think it's her campaign.

CLINTON: When it comes to the wall, he choked.

TRUMP: We have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out.

CLINTON: He'd rather have a puppet as President of the United States --

TRUMP: No puppet, no puppet.

CLINTON: -- and clear -- this is a pattern. The divisiveness, in many ways, dangerous vision of our country.

WALLACE: Will you make the same commitment that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?

TRUMP: I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense.

CLINTON: That's horrifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This new NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: We want to welcome our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. You're watching NEW DAY.

Up first, Donald Trump's debate bombshell, refusing to say if he'll accept the results of the election. He says he will keep the country in suspense despite the threat that it poses to the democratic process.

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton called Trump's comments horrifying. Some Republicans are slamming their own nominee. His own party trying to clean up his words by saying of course, they will accept the will of the people.

There are only 19 days until Election Day. How will the final debate impact the race? We've got it all covered.

Let's begin with CNN political reporter Manu Raju live in Vegas. What a night, Manu.

MANU RAJU, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Indeed, it was, Chris. Now, Donald Trump needed a commanding performance last night to reverse his sharply declining poll numbers that we have seen since the beginning -- since last month's first presidential debate. And at the beginning of that debate last night, Donald Trump prosecuted an argument that conservatives wanted to hear over the Supreme Court and abortion.

But then, Hillary Clinton got under Donald Trump's skin.