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Trump Refuses To Say He'll Accept Election Results; Clinton Widens Lead In CNN Electoral Map; NYC Mayor On Trump's Refusal: "This Is The Big Con"; Big Moments Of The Final Debate; Trump's Late-Term Abortion Comments Cause A Stir. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 20, 2016 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:50] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. So, we just spoke with Donald Trump's campaign manager, Kellyanne Conway, and Democratic vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine about Trump's refusal to say whether he would accept the election results, as well as other issues.

So let's discuss it with our panel. We have Ron Brownstein, David Gregory, and CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Great to have all of you.

David, where do you want to start?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: What did you from both of these people?

GREGORY: You know, I thought from Sen. Kaine there's something that's important. Early voting starts in North Carolina. That's where he is today. Hillary Clinton has won these debates. She's in a commanding position to win on November 8th. She's got a bigger battle now, which is how does she govern? How does she make sure that she's seen as legitimate?

And I think part of what Sen. Kaine is saying, we don't want this to be a close contest to get into territory where Donald Trump could, perhaps, try to refuse to accept the results or seek to invalidate the results. We want to win resoundingly. I think that's what she's after here. I think she's in a position to expand the map.

When Kellyanne Conway talks about 2000 and Al Gore, I think they're spinning -- I think she's doing the very best she can. She's got a candidate who is saying things that are dangerous. It's not what she believes, it's not what the vice presidential running mate believes. You know, they're doing what they've got to do at this point. That's not what they think is right.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Ron, full disclosure. Kellyanne has been a friend of mine for some 25 years. I have a lot of respect for her. I think she was up against it this morning. This idea of analogizing what Trump said last night --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

CUOMO: -- to what happened in Florida in 2000 just rationally doesn't work.

BROWNSTEIN: Right.

CUOMO: And the idea that focusing on this to the absence of anything else -- which, by the way, we're not doing -- but ignoring the significance of this also doesn't work. But what's your take?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, look -- I mean, if there was a photo finish national election or a photo finish or a close finish in any state, no one would dispute Donald Trump's right to demand a recount -- to pursue every legal means to ensure that every vote is counted, but that is not what he is saying. And what he is saying, in fact, makes that less likely to ever happen. He is preemptively questioning whether there would be voter fraud or rigging of the results on a massive level.

By the way, with Republicans now controlling most state governments, requiring some level of Republican collusion in all of this -- and what all of this does, Chris, I think, is it reinforces that 60 percent of the electorate that questions whether he has the temperament and the judgment to succeed as president.

Right now, in all of the national polls -- there's literally one poll, I believe, since the second debate that has had him past 40 percent of the vote. That puts you on track for a loss of somewhere between nine and, maybe, 12 million votes. So, you know, this is the kind of -- the strange thing about all of this is it makes it more likely that he loses so decisively that questions of kind of the last votes being counted become more and more obscure and irrelevant.

CAMEROTA: Nia-Malika, basically what we heard Kellyanne saying was how can he give an answer today? We don't know what will happen. Look at what happened in 2000. Al Gore didn't concede because there was that strange scenario.

[07:35:00] And then you heard Tim Kaine being possibly being overly optimistic, saying I don't think that's going to happen. We're not planning for any sort of scenario like that. Who do you think is -- whose message do you think is more effective today?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, you know -- I mean, I think Kellyanne Conway and the Trump surrogates are very focused on Florida -- what happened in 2000 with Al Gore. It is irrelevant. It's not the same thing.

I think Tim Kaine, in saying that in some ways it's irrelevant whether or not Donald Trump concedes, is onto something, certainly, if it's a blowout election, as it looks like it's on pace to be that. I mean, in some ways, it seems like Donald Trump is setting up a scenario where if he loses on Election Day everyone is sort of waiting with bated breath to see what he does and whether or not he concedes.

If he loses, he will be a man with a party. He barely has a party right now. He will have no standing army. He will not go back to a governor's mansion. He will not go back to a Senate seat. He will, essentially, go back to Trump Tower and have a Twitter account. So this idea that somehow what Donald Trump says on this election, particularly if it's a blowout, I think just -- and somehow could undermine American democracy. I think it is probably a little bit overblown.

And I also think what we know about Donald Trump is even if he conceded on election night it would be very likely that a couple of days later he would shift positions, right? I mean, because that's who he is.

GREGORY: Quick point about the story of these debates. Donald Trump has been onto some real strengths. He is the change agent in this campaign. He's got a captive audience on that message of transformative change and that she is part of the establishment.

He had good critiques last night about what lessons did she learn from the Iraq War that she then advocated decapitating the Libyan leadership. He had areas where he's really making good attacks against her and it is channeling, kind of, conservative positions that could expand his base. But he overrides that with these temperamental breakdowns, whether it's personal, being nasty, or in this case, undermining democracy.

CUOMO: There's a lot of difference between being a pundit and being a president.

GREGORY: Right, and this is, I really think, the overarching theme of these debates.

CAMEROTA: Let's take a look right now at the snapshot of where the electoral map is, Ron, before we let you weigh in on all of that.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Just because -- I mean, look, obviously whatever happened last night is not yet calculated in the polls and how people are leaning, but this is where we are today. And today, CNN gives Hillary Clinton 307 in terms of the electoral votes.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And Arizona is in play, if you can see the map there. Florida is leaning Democratic. Donald Trump comes up with 179. Ron, your thoughts?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, for all the tumult and for all the unprecedented nature of this campaign there is an enormous amount of stability in the way the electorate is dividing. Going back to conversations that we had on this show a year ago, Donald Trump is in a position to do extremely well among blue-collar white voters. White voters without a college education. That plays out geographically in places like Iowa and Ohio where he is outperforming Mitt Romney and a strong position to compete for them. On the other hand, he is facing historic deficits among voters of color -- minority voters -- and he's also underperforming every Republican nominee, literally ever, in the history of polling among college-educated white voters, especially women, but also men.

And what that means is that in states where you -- those two blocs are a significant demographic force. Places like Virginia and Colorado, in the first instance, that are now off the board. North Carolina and Florida, where she's really pushing. And now, even, Arizona. They become very difficult for him. That was the case going into the debates. It's even more so now.

CUOMO: You know, Ron, remind me later in the show. One of the things that goes into all these prognostications is assumptions about turnout.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: And there is a case to be made that they're assuming a bigger turnout than we may have a reason to believe at this point, but Ron knows that stuff. We'll get to it later on.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you very much.

CUOMO: Hillary Clinton --

HENDERSON: Thank you.

CUOMO: -- won the debate in CNN's scientific poll. She won all three according to the poll. But did she do everything she needed to do, especially about these lingering controversies? We have Clinton supporter, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio making the case for Clinton, next.

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[07:42:40] CAMEROTA: The election only 19 days away, but are we in for a post-election battle? Donald Trump, last night, refusing to say whether he would concede if he were to lose on November 8th.

So joining us now is New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio. He is a Clinton supporter. Mr. Mayor, thanks so much for being here.

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: You're very welcome.

CAMEROTA: What do you think of Donald Trump's words where he basically says I can't tell you right now what I would do if the election showed me losing because maybe I wouldn't concede, maybe I wouldn't accept the outcome?

DE BLASIO: You know, I think this is the big con. I think this is Donald Trump as his con artist best setting up a dynamic where he has an excuse for his defeat. He's going to lose because the American people rejected his ideas. He's run a racist campaign, he's run a divisive campaign. Has not spoken to how we change this country for the better and people are going to reject it. So he sets up this fantasy to justify why he lost, but it's dangerous. And you hear a lot of Republicans -- by the way, I was very impressed last night that people like Lindsey Graham came out and said this is -- this is unacceptable, undemocratic because the words you heard from Donald Trump are what you expect from a third-world dictator. What you expect from a military leader about to attempt a coup in a foreign country, not from an American presidential candidate.

CAMEROTA: Well, look, we've also heard some of the similar words from one of your predecessors, Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City, who because Donald Trump has brought up voter fraud and said that because the election is rigged and because of voter fraud that he might not be able to accept the results, Rudy Giuliani says oh, I saw it myself. I saw it in my own campaign. I saw voter fraud. There were busloads of people coming in who were not eligible to vote. There were 100,000 illegitimate votes. What do you think of that in New York City?

DE BLASIO: Well, first of all, Rudy Giuliani is increasingly delusional. Second, there's been so many studies of voter dynamics around the country that prove there is no meaningful voter fraud in this country at this point. What Trump is doing is he's trying to plant another racist seed where he suggests that any kind of voter fraud happens in cities, happens in communities of color. It's just a classic tool. It's a tactic to try and undermine the democratic process.

And look, last night, Trump -- even with him saying the bad hombres, right? Constant racial appeals. Constant attempts to undermine people's faith in this country.

CAMEROTA: We have that moment so let's play it for people who are just waking up and missed it. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: One of my first acts will be to get all of the drug lords, all of the bad ones. We have some bad, bad people in this country that have to go out. We're going to get them out, we're going to secure the border. And once the border is secured, at a later date we'll make a determination as to the rest. But we have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, why do you think that that was a racist statement?

DE BLASIO: His entire campaign has been underlied by racist attitudes, racist statements. Obviously, what he originally said about keeping Mexicans out of the country, what he said about Muslims, what he said about the Mexican judge -- I mean, it goes on and on and on. There, he's sending a message -- it's not even a coded message, it's an overt message -- that somehow Mexican-Americans have something wrong with them. That's what he does over and over again.

Again, look at how he has manipulated this electoral process. He's taken people's legitimate economic frustration, he's tried to make them not believe in the democratic process, he's tried to turn white American against people of color. This is a form of -- we've seen this before. This is what fascists do. They take all of those elements and try and undermine the democratic process.

And you know what? The people are about to reject it on November 8th and then Donald Trump will try and say the election was stolen and make himself relevant in a new way. I think he's embarrassing himself and I think he's undermining our democracy.

CAMEROTA: Our pundits say that Hillary Clinton missed some opportunities last night or wasn't as clear as she could be. Case in point -- this -- her Goldman Sachs. Some of her speeches for Goldman Sachs were stolen and then leaked by WikiLeaks and in it, she alludes to her desire, some day, for open borders. That made lots of people -- lots, certainly, of Trump supporters say whoa, he's been right. She wants open borders, he wants -- he's tough on immigration. So let's listen to her explanation and you can tell me if it went far enough. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, if you went on to read the rest of the sentence, I was talking about energy. You know, we trade more energy with our neighbors than we trade with the rest of the world combined. And I do want us to have an electric grid -- an energy system that crosses borders. I think that would be a great benefit to us.

But you are very clearly quoting from WikiLeaks, and what's really important about WikiLeaks is that the Russian government has engaged in espionage against Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, so she pivoted away from the question about her Goldman Sachs to Russia. But do you think that she quelled the fear of voters who think hey, there was something in there? Maybe you're not being totally honest about your feelings about open borders.

DE BLASIO: I think she had more she could have said there from her own platform, and her platform's extraordinary on this question and very, very clear. It's the most progressive platform the Democratic Party's had in decades and goes right at this question. Her platform says we are not going to accept trade deals that undermine the American worker and the American people. We're going to tax the wealthy more so we can actually address the economic policies.

CAMEROTA: But what about immigration? I mean, what about the question of immigration and whether or not she would be tough on illegal immigration?

DE BLASIO: Her platform calls, and rightfully so, comprehensive immigration reform combined with the proper controls at the border. Look, here's the irony of all of this, Alisyn, 12 million people in this country who are here and undocumented. This whole campaign has not gotten to the fact that those folks are just not going anywhere. They're part of America now. Let's make sense of it. Hillary's platform is very, very clear about the fact that we need comprehensive immigration reform.

Trump has, with the border -- you know, the wall and the deportations -- he's created another fantasy that you're actually going to take 12 million people out of this country. It's immoral and it's impossible.

CAMEROTA: We heard it was a rocking time last night at Gracie Mansion.

DE BLASIO: Yes.

CAMEROTA: There was a wild watch party, we heard --

DE BLASIO: Wild.

CAMEROTA: -- and we hear that we have some video of it. (Video playing) Look at this. Raise the roof.

DE BLASIO: You know, it's crazy. We had a bunch of New York City public school -- high school students there. And, Alisyn, listen, I think they saw some things in that debate that could've been discouraging for them, especially what Trump said about not accepting the election results.

My message, and my wife Chirlane's message to these young people is this is your country. You're about to become leaders of this country. Do not be discouraged by some of what you see, be better than it. Take charge of our democracy because we're going to need.

CAMEROTA: Mayor de Blasio, thanks so much for being here on NEW DAY.

DE BLASIO: Thank you, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Great to talk to you. Let's get over to Chris.

CUOMO: All right, Hillary Clinton is leading in the polls among women, so what did last night mean to that particular contest? We're going to break it down, next.

[07:49:30] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:53:05] CUOMO: You know, until Trump's disavowal of democracy there had been some real deep diving last night on different issues, especially women's issues, in a way that we haven't heard it, to date, in this race. The question is, how did the candidates do on this issue? Was there any distance made?

Let's discuss. Scottie Nell Hughes is a Trump supporter -- she's with us. Symone Sanders, a Clinton supporter who was national press secretary for Bernie Sanders' primary campaign.

You had a real deep discussion on why they feel what they feel not just about the Supreme Court, but its extension to Roe v. Wade. What did you make of Hillary Clinton's position there? SYMONE SANDERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, I thought Hillary Clinton took the position of standing up for the rights of women and advocating that it is extremely important that we don't allow the government to police women's bodies, that an abortion is a very personal decision that woman has to make, and we need to preserve that personal decision to be between that woman and her family, God, and her doctor.

I thought it was interesting, though, that Donald Trump, specifically, spoke about that he would elect justices that would -- or he would appoint justices that would make sure Roe v. Wade was overturned, and that was something that I had never heard before. But I was excited to have a substantive conversation about the reproductive rights of women because that is something we haven't seen in this election just yet.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Scottie, Donald Trump used some pretty graphic, certainly striking, language about abortion, and he said something that many people just say is not true. That he was basically saying, you know, a woman can demand an abortion one day before her due date, you know, at nine months, and it's just so horrific. Not true. There are --

CUOMO: Some would argue that's called birth.

CAMEROTA: That --

CUOMO: If you take a baby out at that last stage it's viable.

CAMEROTA: There's also laws in this country that set 18 weeks in some states, 20 weeks in some state, 22 weeks as the limit. So what he -- what was the point he was trying to make last night?

[07:55:00] SCOTTIE NELL HUGHES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let me first echo Symone's statements, and I agree. I thought it was wonderful that we finally had a substantive debate about where the candidates stood on this issue.

Now, for those of us in the pro-life movement it doesn't matter whether it's one day or all the way up to a few weeks before birth. Having an abortion is murder to us so the killing of a baby -- partial-birth abortion, which Hillary Clinton did support -- whether, like I said, even it's 10, 20 weeks into their due date it is just murder in our viewpoint.

Mr. Trump took a hard stance yesterday saying that he would fight hard to make sure that the future generation of women would have a chance to live, so I think this is a very good clear definition between the two. But, it is a fact Hillary Clinton does support partial-birth abortions at different stages and that is just something that us, in the pro-life moment, in no way can support.

CUOMO: But isn't it, Scottie, a reflection of what the law is? Roe v. Wade is a complex decision. It's not as simple as we often make. But the essence of it is you have to take the women's -- the woman's choice and the woman's health into consideration no matter what stage it is that the state is going to decide to regulate. Do you believe that a woman doesn't have a right to decide what happens to their own body?

HUGHES: Well, outside of the case of rape or incest or obviously, the woman's life is in -- that still makes you pro-life -- that her life is at risk. And Hillary Clinton, yesterday, tried to muddy the waters saying a woman's life might be at risk -- a mother's life might be at risk, so then it's a -- that's still pro-life. We're not talking about those situations, that's a different one.

What we're talking about is women who have started to use this as a version of birth control, who's had multiple abortions. Who sit there and decide -- they find out in a genetic test that their child might have some sort of mental handicap and decide that they just don't think they can handle that type of child, and that is what makes them decide to have an abortion.

Those issues right there, yes -- you know, I'm sorry, that child does have a right to live and I'm speaking on behalf of them, not necessarily the mother that chooses that she wouldn't want to raise them.

SANDERS: I think the only person that tried to muddy the waters last night in speaking about abortion was Donald Trump. He used very graphic and extreme language to describe what is not happening in terms of just yanking, basically, a full-born baby out of a woman's uterus. That is not what happens.

You know, an abortion is a very personal decision that a person has to make, and to stand on that stage last night and to make it seem as though that it's just something flippant -- something that people elect to do on a regular basis -- not at all.

You know, look, if Republicans in Congress weren't blocking Planned Parenthood at every single angle -- an organization that provides medical care -- not just abortions, but medical care, health care to women and men across this country -- you know, maybe we could be having a better substantive conversation about this. So I think we have to look at this holistically.

Donald Trump is the only person that tried to muddy the waters. He took a very extreme stance -- a very extreme conservative stance. Roe v. Wade is -- overall, Republicans don't necessarily support overturning Roe v. Wade, if you look at the polling and the data. So, he was speaking to the Trump base last night. He wasn't speaking to the broad base of the Republican Party and definitely wasn't trying to win over any moderate Democrats.

And Hillary Clinton stood up for the rights of women. She stood with Planned Parenthood and I was happy to see that.

CUOMO: Quick button now, Scottie. We've got to get going.

HUGHES: I did -- hold on -- let me -- can I --

CUOMO: Please. HUGHES: All right, real quick, let me disagree with her on that point. The Republican base is pro-life. They do not support Planned Parenthood. And I'm sorry, Symone, the killing of a baby, like what we saw with Gosnell -- Dr. Gosnell -- is graphic and I think Americans need to know the truth about what abortion is. When you do have babies who come out that you can actually tell that they are a life formed.

So those of us in the pro-life movement who have studied what abortions do and children who come out still alive and then are murdered, yes. No, those stories need to be told, I think, a little bit more and then maybe we would have women have more of an appreciation for life before they ended it.

CAMEROTA: The majority of voters support keeping abortion legal, so we're clarifying all of this. Scottie, Symone, thank you very much.

SANDERS: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, there's a lot to get to. Again, it was the last debate and it may be the one that has the most impact. We're going to tell you why. Let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald thinks belittling women makes him bigger.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These women -- I think they want either fame or her campaign did it, and I think it's her campaign.

CLINTON: When it comes to the wall, he choked.

TRUMP: We have some bad hombres here and we're going to get them out.

CLINTON: He'd rather have a puppet as President of the United States --

TRUMP: No puppet, no puppet.

CLINTON: -- and clear -- this is a pattern of divisiveness. In many ways, dangerous vision of our country.

CHRIS WALLACE, "FOX NEWS" ANCHOR, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, DEBATE MODERATOR: Will you make the same commitment that you will absolutely accept the result of this election?

TRUMP: I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense.

CLINTON: That's horrifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: We want to welcome our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. You're watching NEW DAY.

Donald Trump refusing to say whether he would accept the election results if he were to lose. He chose, instead, to say he was going to keep the country in suspense.