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Florida and Nevada are Now Toss-Ups; Pentagon Suspends Bonus Recoupment; Viola Davis Tackles Poverty; Oprah Talks Election. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 27, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Looking at the most precious resource for campaigns, which is the candidate's schedule. Where are they putting Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump out in the country? And, of course, the latest polling.

And so looking at all of that, last week, remember where the reverberations of the "Access Hollywood" tape was still happening and the accusations against the women where Trump was hitting a bottom, probably, out of that last debate, we had Florida and Nevada mover from where - from toss-up to lean Democrat. So this week, as things have stabilized a little bit, seen some polling there, Hillary Clinton herself saying she's going back to Florida this weekend, even before she was done with a two-day swing there. We moved Florida and Nevada back to toss-up.

But I want to point something out here. Look at that map. Even if - so I know we say Florida and Nevada now moving to toss-up and that seems like away from Clinton. Donald Trump has to win every yellow state there that you see, and it's still not enough. He still needs to find some Democratic leaning turf to bring his way. And, remember, one of those states in yellow right now is Utah. That should be the sixth easiest electoral votes for a Republican to bank, but because of the third party candidate, Evan McMullin, surging there, that may be a big block for Donald Trump.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: So, if what we're seeing is a little bit of coalescing on the GOP side that's boosting Trump, a little bleed-off from the third party side that may be helping Clinton galvanize the left, it still leaves you this basic proposition, how do you get to 270? So his numbers are moving. You suggest the map still remains the same.

Chris Collins comes on, congressman from upstate New York, and says, I'm not seeing 270. I'm sing 269 for my guy Trump and it goes to the House of Representatives. I hadn't heard anybody suggest that before. What's your take?

CHALIAN: Listen, I think political junkies like myself, I'm obsessed with 269-269 results because I think it would fascinating to cover. I think the chances of that are somewhere between slim to none and probably a lot -

CUOMO: Did slim just get on the bus? CHALIAN: A lot closer to none. But, listen, here is the possibility of

that. If Trump sweeps all the battlegrounds, and flips New Hampshire, he does get to 269. One of the things the Trump campaign is counting on is that single electoral vote in Maine that they think they can win in the second congressional district to put them over to the 270 hurdle. But i will say again, Chris, that is all predicated on winning every Romney state, like Arizona and Utah, which right now are competitive and shouldn't be for Donald Trump. So it is a monumental climb to get to that kind of scenario right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And 269-269, your dream becomes the national nightmare. But let's talk about how nationally she is still in the poll of polls six points up ahead of Trump, and give us some context in terms of two weeks out, what have you seen in the past, has there ever been this type of spread and what it meant on Election Day?

CHALIAN: A six-point national lead, which is what that poll of polls shows, an average of all the recent polls, is a landslide election in modern-day presidential politics. So you are right to nice that. At this point in the Romney-Obama race, it was a one-point race.

CUOMO: Yes.

CHALIAN: This is much more on the scale of what 2008 looked like at this stage against Obama-McCain after the economy tanked and Obama really went up in the polls. This is a very significant national lead for Hillary Clinton. And, you're right, what Chris noted is right, we're going to see partisans put on their partisan jerseys no matter what. He's going to shore up Republicans. She's going to shore up Democrats. And we're going to see these polls get a little closer than they were a week ago. But it is important to keep our eye on that poll of polls because that is a - that is a substantial margin right now for Hillary Clinton.

CUOMO: It's just such a different election than we've ever had to measure before.

CAMEROTA: You think?

CUOMO: You know what's true about the partisan jerseys, it's true. It's even more true for the GOP, but then you've got to add in the Trump factor, you know, and he has divided that party, like we just saw play out here with Ana and Scottie, in a way that is unique.

But, David, thank you very much for taking us through it. And you're going to have to do it ten more times between now and Election Day.

CHALIAN: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: Thanks.

CUOMO: All right, so the Pentagon made a move, and in part you should thank yourself for this. You did the right thing where veterans are involved. You heard about this story about them being forced to pay back re-enlistment bonuses. The Pentagon now says they're going to stop that. But, is that enough of a fix? We're going to speak with two military members at the center of this political storm, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:38:46] CUOMO: Important update for you on an important story. Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the Pentagon to suspend all efforts to collect reimbursements of re-enlistment bonuses erroneously given to thousands of California National Guard members. Earlier this week, we heard from two soldiers who were forced to repay their bonuses. Sergeant Susan Haley and Captain Christopher Van Meter join us again now.

So, let's see, what's the right way to discuss this. You know, Mark Hertling made a point that I want to get your take on first because this isn't over, right? Even if they're stopping it right now, what happens to people like you who made the efforts to pay them back and dealt with all these resulting issues? What happens to people like you? We don't know.

But, General Mark Hertling said something I want to get your take on, which is that there were some veterans who took bonuses that they knew they shouldn't have taken. And the idea that everyone should get paid back, Chris, I'll start with you, it also a flawed notion. What do you think of that?

CHRISTOPHER VAN METER, U.S. ARMY AND NATL. GUARD RESERVIST (RET.): No, and I agree, those soldiers that nefariously took some of that money, they shouldn't get that money back. When I talked to Congressman McCarthy the other day, he assured me that the soldiers that would be getting some of that money back are those that should have not had that money taken to begin with. There was a couple hundred soldiers that nefariously took this money and they shouldn't be getting money back, right.

[08:40:08] CUOMO: And, Susan, help me understand that a little bit better. The idea of, they weren't supposed to have taken the bonus. How would that happen?

SUSAN HALEY, AFGHANISTAN WAR VETERAN: Either they were just not paying attention, or they didn't understand what they were supposed to get. But I agree with Chris, there are a few that took the money knowing full well that they weren't supposed to get it. The difficulty is in proving what - who - who knew what and so on. Some people were just - really didn't know. I know of a private that she knew she wasn't supposed to get a bonus, and after she got out of basic training, she got a check but she figured it was part of her basic training checks. She didn't go back and check and see that it was a bonus. But, I mean, she'd only been in the military for a minute. So, I wouldn't say that she knowingly accepted that bonus knowing that she wasn't supposed to. So maybe she should have done a better job with looking at her LES or something like that, but -

CUOMO: Right. All right, so -

VAN METER: But, Chris -

CUOMO: So, Chris - VAN METER: Chris, there's a -

CUOMO: Yes.

VAN METER: Yes, but there's a - there's a - there's a bigger portion of soldiers out there. You're talking the 9,700 soldiers.

CUOMO: Right.

VAN METER: Maybe 100 soldiers nefariously took that money. But you're talking 9,600 other soldiers had no idea that those bonuses were invalid.

CUOMO: Right. We don't know the numbers yet, but you're saying that this pie is going to have a much smaller slice of people who did the wrong thing -

VAN METER: Oh, yes, absolutely.

CUOMO: Than those who are having the wrong thing done to them. So what's your reaction to the Pentagon, Ash Carter, the secretary of defense, stepping up and saying stop the process?

VAN METER: I'm excited and I'm optimistic. You know, there's still a long road left to go. He handed down a July 2017 timeframe. That's not a lot of time to process a lot of these. We're talking thousands of recoupments and going back and taking a look at them. That's not a lot of time to reach out to soldiers and have them come back and refile their paperwork.

CUOMO: But that is a lot of time, Susan, for people like you to have to deal with lousy credit, you know, and with not being able to make bills make sense and ends meet. That's a long time to go from today as we approach Election Day here at the end of October, all the way to July. So - and especially when they've had years to deal with this. So what's your reaction in terms of whether or not you'll be OK because of what was just done, Susan?

HALEY: Well, I'm glad that they've stopped the bleeding. Hopefully they will come to some resolution quickly. I don't know if they're going to be looking back at all 9,700 of them or just the folks that are actually paying. I'm not sure what those numbers are.

CUOMO: And, Chris -

HALEY: I -

CUOMO: Go ahead. Finish your point, Susan, please.

HALEY: I think at this point, because of the widespread fraud and mismanagement, that the benefit of the doubt should be given to the soldiers this time.

CUOMO: And, Chris, the idea of accountability, yes, we know that some guys we're doing the wrong thing. They got jammed up. They're doing time. They got released. Whatever it is. VAN METER: Right.

CUOMO: But this was years they knew. I'm embarrassed that I didn't know sooner about this to bring this out.

VAN METER: Right. Right.

CUOMO: They knew. They did nothing.

VAN METER: Right.

CUOMO: General Mark Hertling called it an ugly baby, indelicately saying this is something that's been passed around from one to the other. Nobody really wanted to handle it. Who should be accountable, in your opinion?

VAN METER: That's a great question. You know, they did immediately deal with the actors that were starting this issue, Master Sergeant Tony Jaffe (ph) and those other at the state level. My understanding was they relieved some senior officials in the California Army National Guard immediately upon finding out that this happened.

You know, but soldiers reached out to a lot of legislators in the aftermath of this and we really focused on the state legislators because this was a state issue at the time, and not a whole lot got done. And that's the frustrating part. If you want to blame somebody, you know, you could blame local legislators or you can blame the Cal Guard officials. But at the end of the day, the soldiers are still suffering.

CUOMO: And P.J. Reichoff (ph), over at the IAVA, you know, he says this is something, it's not everything. Don't let go of this story.

VAN METER: Right.

CUOMO: They won't do everything they need to do. We understand. We hear it. Susan, Chris, you have your promise, this is news, it's relevant to the public interest, we will stay on it all the way through because this is going to start really after election day.

VAN METER: Thank you.

CUOMO: And I hope both of you between now and then are OK.

HALEY: Right. Thank you.

VAN METER: Good. Thank you so much.

CUOMO: All right, be well.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, shifting gears. Viola Davis, you know her, but she's more than just a talented actress. She's also an advocate for the poor. So check out how she's helping out in her own hometown in this week's "Impact Your World." [08:45:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIOLA DAVIS: Growing up in Central Falls is a mixture of the most idyllic, joyful experience, mixed with the kind of horrific traumatizing experience.

My mom has an eighth grade education. She's smart. She's just not educated.

She was a part of a group of working poor women who fought for kids who are underserved. That's what I learned from her. You don't have to have the profile of what it may look like to be an activist, but what you have is a heart to serve.

I grew up poor. So, there's a human face on it for me. I understand the needs of the people. I'm serving Direct Relief, which is a humanitarian aid program and they provide health services and medical kits to places of disaster, impoverished communities throughout the world.

Today they're offering a free health clinic and health screening here. What they are providing is something that a lot of communities will never even see. And so hopefully it will be kind of a beacon of hope.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:13] CAMEROTA: Oprah Winfrey wading into the 2016 race. The talk show host and media mogul sat down with Bishop T.D. Jakes on his show, leaving voters with a curious suggestion about Hillary Clinton.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OPRAH WINFREY, FORMER TALK SHOW HOST: There really is no choice, peoples.

T.D. JAKES, FOUNDER AND SE. PASTOR, POTTER'S HOUSE: Yes.

WINFREY: All the people sitting around talking about they can't decide.

There's not a person in this room who hasn't been in the same conversation where people say, I just don't know if I like her.

JAKES: Yes.

WINFREY: She not coming over your house. You don't have to like her. You don't have to like her. Do you like this country?

JAKES: I hear you.

WINFREY: Do you like this country? You better get out there and vote.

JAKES: I love this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: All right, joining us now to talk about that interview is Bishop T.D. Jakes. He's also the founder and senior pastor of the Potter's House Church. His hour-long interview with Oprah airs today.

Bishop Jakes, thanks so much for being on.

T.D. JAKES, FOUNDER AND SR. PASTOR, POTTER'S HOUSE: Oh, it's a real pleasure. Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: So how did you process that answer that Oprah gave there? Because when she said, you don't have to like her, but just get out there and vote, some heard that as a big, sort of, back-ended compliment.

JAKES: Well, obviously, I think it was very complimentary as it related to her commitment and conviction that Hillary Clinton is her choice, and an endorsement obviously toward her as it relates to the campaign. But it comes - the - that particular comment is borne out of a discussion that she and I had preceding it about her role with President Obama. And so as she begins to talk about that, it then catapulted over into this discussion.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, I'm curious about that because why hasn't Oprah been more engaged and more involved on the campaign trail? Because back then, she certainly was for Barack Obama, who was potentially going to be the first African-American president. And here's Hillary Clinton potentially going to be the first female president. So why hasn't Oprah been more vocal and visible?

JAKES: I'm a little bit afraid to speak for her. But it would appear to me that she's in a different place in her life. She was doing daytime television like I am now. She was doing that then. So she was in the homes of America every day in a very personal and intimate way, felt a strong conviction about President Obama, and actually went out on the campaign trail.

I do know what she said to me is that she felt like there was so much noise and so much chaos and such an unusual campaign, unlike anything that we've ever seen before, that she wanted to kind of wait a little while, see where everything was going to lay out, and then try to pierce through all of the frantic discussions that are going on right now.

Frankly, the whole conversation surprised me a little. I tend to be, publicly at least, nonpartisan. Oprah comes out, but rarely. She did for President Obama. I don't think she has historically been a person who came out to endorse candidates. So this is an evolution in how we see her and her influence and her impact on society is unquestioned and in many ways unrivalled.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. I mean she is a huge influencer, as are you. And so that was - is why it was interesting to hear why she hasn't wanted to take sort of a more bold, public position. So here is what she told you about why she hasn't gotten more involved.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WINFREY: The reason why I haven't been vocal, other than saying "I'm with her," is because I didn't know what to say that could actually pierce through all the noise, and the chaos, and the disgusting vitriol that's going on, and actually be heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: I mean, that's interesting, right, bishop, to hear that Oprah doesn't think that she can be heard in this climate? I mean people hang - you know, her followers certainly hang on her every word. And what do you think about that? How do you believe that - what the way is to cut through the noise and the vitriol?

JAKES: Well, you know, it's - she's still a very, very influential person to be sure. But there's been a lot of noise and - and it's a different game today than it was eight years ago. Social media has really changed the game in terms of who is heard and how they're heard and who listens to which ventricle of information sources that are available to us today. And I think it is a little bit of a different game. And you also don't want your words to be diluted and polluted by all of the vitriol that's going on out there right now.

It's just a different - there used to be rules. There used to be certain things we didn't say about each other. There used to be - we would disagree about the policies, but we didn't take the kind of low, shady, acrimonious remarks that we see so prevalent in this campaign. It has taken everybody, I think, to a degree aback by the - just the sheer intensity -

[08:55:17] CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAKES: Of vitriol and disrespect and disregard for human dignity on both sides of this issue has been just so extremely pervasive that a lot of people have gotten quiet in this atmosphere.

CAMEROTA: Yeah, and particularly I want to ask you about your position because I know that you say you don't wade in. You prefer to be nonpartisan, understood. But I do want to get your take on what you have heard Donald Trump saying in his outreach or attempted outreach to the black community where basically to inner city African-Americans he has said, you get shot walking to the store, what do you have to lose, vote for me. What do you think of that message?

JAKES: Well, you know, the thing about it, I have mixed emotions about it. On one hand, we are not a monolithic community just by virtue of the color of our skin does not all - does not mean that we all live in the ghetto and that we all get shot on the way to the grocery store. So putting us all in one basket I think is regrettable and speaks to the fact that he is a novice in terms of understanding the vast demographics within our culture.

However, there is a demographic of people who are living with the kinds of hardships that he addressed, and, frankly, I was glad that he brought it up because historically the Republicans have not addressed black people at all. So it's nice that we are now in the conversation. And some of the points that he made as it relates to, I don't think that the Democrats have been as focused on really resolving some of the problems that in some way some of their programs help to create. At the end of the day, we have been very loyal as a people overall to a party that I question, are they loyal to us. But what bothers me about what Donald Trump said -

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAKES: Is that while he points to the problem, he's short on solutions. And at the end of the day, he himself is new to this world and it's a real concern.

I think people are really perplexed right now as to who to endorse and who to vote for or what that can really get the job done. And Oprah's comment, along with the whole group - I don't want people to think that the whole interview was political.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

JAKES: Because the vast majority of it was not. But that particular portion points to the fact that everybody's talk about this issue and everybody's trying to figure out who has the best agenda to lead the country forward.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. We'll be very interested to watch the interview in its entirety. Bishop T.D. Jakes, thanks so much for taking time to be with us on NEW DAY.

JAKES: Thanks for having me, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And thanks to all of you. "Newsroom" with Carol Costello begins after this very short break

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)