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FBI Director Comey Criticized for Letter Sent to Congress; Interview with Congressman Trey Gowdy; Interview with Senator Ben Cardin; 3 Dead After Two Buses Crash in Baltimore. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 01, 2016 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: "The New York Times" says maybe he did it in a way that was cheating, new reports. There are also these multiple uncorroborated reports about his campaign's potential links to Russia and what the FBI may know about that but not saying. We're only a week away from the election. We have it all covered. Let's begin with CNN justice correspondent Evan Perez. Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris.

The big question today remains, will the FBI be able to provide more information about what it's finding so far in this investigation of Huma Abedin's recently discovered e-mails. FBI director James Comey has told officials that at this point he doesn't plan to provide partial updates, and that it's unlikely that his investigators can complete their work before Election Day.

A team of investigators has begun its work to dig through these thousands of e-mails which were found on a computer belonging to Huma Abedin's husband, former congressman, Anthony Weiner. Abedin's attorney says she has no idea how her e-mails ended up on this computer. And at this point the FBI forensic experts are still trying to figure out how they got there.

Comey's been under attack, including from all three most recent attorneys general under the Bush and Obama administration. All three are finding fault with Comey's handling of the Clinton investigation, and particularly for commenting on the latest Abedin e-mail discovery just days before an election.

Comey's current boss, however, Attorney General Loretta Lynch, for the first time met briefly with him yesterday on the sidelines of a national security meeting. Lynch, as you remember, was opposed to Comey sending his letter to Congress last Friday, but we're told that the conversation yesterday was a friendly chat between to officials who are under a great deal of scrutiny over this Clinton investigation. Chris?

CUOMO: All right, Evan, thank you very much. The Clinton campaign is going directly at the FBI's chief. And they say this is a blatant double standard. He'll talk about the e-mails when he doesn't have the underlying proof, but he won't talk about any investigations about Donald Trump. For that we have Phil Mattingly live in Chappaqua, New York. Of course, that's where Hillary Clinton lives. What do you have? PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, you nailed it. It is an

escalation right now. It started with shock. The Clinton campaign obviously had no idea this was coming when that letter was sent to Capitol Hill on Friday. But slowly, over the course of the last three or four days, you've seen an escalation of attacks. A clear effort by the Clinton campaign to undercut what that letter means. It's not an effort we're going to see slow down anytime soon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There is no case here.

MATTINGLY: Hillary Clinton and her campaign firing back at FBI Director James Comey, slamming his decision to notify Congress of a new investigation into thousands of e-mails found on a computer belonging to the estranged husband of a top Clinton aide, Huma Abedin, Clinton's campaign turning the tables on Comey.

ROBBY MOOK, CLINTON CAMPAIGN: It's impossible to view this as anything less than a blatant double standard.

MATTINGLY: Seizing on reports that Comey refused to publicly comment on potential ties between Donald Trump's campaign and Russia. On Sunday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid accused Comey of sitting on, quote, "explosive information," Trump's Russia connections, without offering proof. CNN cannot corroborate any of these reports. The U.S. officials do tell CNN that Russia is behind hacks that could potentially influence the U.S. election. Meanwhile, Trump is capitalizing on Comey's new email probe.

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It took guts for Director Comey to make the move that he made in light of the kind of opposition he had.

MATTINGLY: Comey has only said the emails found on disgraced Congressman Anthony Weiner's computer, quote, "appear to be pertinent to the now-closed Clinton private server investigation."

TRUMP: We can be sure that what is in those e-mails is absolutely devastating. And I think we're going to find out, by the way for the first time. Thank you, Huma. Thank you, Anthony Weiner.

MATTINGLY: Abedin's attorneys responding, saying in a statement, quote, "From the beginning, Miss Abedin as complied fully and voluntarily with State Department and law enforcement requests," and reiterate Abedin they only learned of the e-mails on Weiner's computer Friday from the press. Clinton continuing to apologize for her private e-mail server, but issuing a challenge to investigators.

CLINTON: I'm not making excuses. I've said it was a mistake and I regret it. By all means, they should look at them. And I am sure they will reach the same conclusion they did when they looked at my e- mails for the last year.

MATTINGLY: All of this as "The New York Times" obtains documents that they say show Trump potentially escaped tens of millions of dollars in federal personal income taxes in the 1990s by using a tax-avoidance maneuver later outlawed by Congress. Trump's campaign responding to the report in a statement, saying, quote, "Any tax experts that you have consulted are engaged in pure speculation. There is no news here."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[08:05:09] MATTINGLY: So, Alisyn, obviously the big question seven days out, what is the state of play of this race after these last crazy four or five days? Well, to get a sense of things, look at where the candidates and their surrogates are. Donald Trump today in Pennsylvania for a very big speech with his running mate, Mike Pence, on Obamacare, then going to Wisconsin. Hillary Clinton is in battleground, Florida. President Obama, Ohio. Vice President Biden, North Carolina. What does all of that mean? Donald Trump's going to blue states, states with a clear Democratic advantage, basically saying he has to flip these states, almost pull off an upset if he wants to win. Hillary Clinton and her surrogates in battlegrounds, battlegrounds where if she just wins one of those three, she likely locks up the White House. So that, at least as of now, that's your state of play, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Phil, thanks so much for updating us on that.

We want to wring in now South Carolina Republican Congressman Trey Gowdy. He was chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi which first discovered that Clinton used a private e-mail server. Good morning, congressman.

REP. TREY GOWDY, (R) SOUTH CAROLINA: Good morning. How are you?

CAMEROTA: Doing well. Congressman, explain why you are comfortable with Director Comey releasing word to Congress that there is this new wrinkle in the investigation involving Huma Abedin's e-mails before knowing if there's any there there.

GOWDY: Well, I think there are two reasons. Number one, Alisyn, let's just concede, being a police officer and a prosecutor is a lonely and tough job and unusual facts make for some pretty tough conclusions. But he did tell Congress in July that the investigation had been completed and he had determined that she didn't have specific intent to commit a crime. So I think he felt the need to supplement the record.

Remember, John Koskinen is being investigated for potential impeachment for failing to supplement the record and update Congress. So I think, number one, you take him at his word that he wanted to supplement the record. But number two, let's assume that Secretary Clinton today were to say to a rally, all of this is in the rearview mirror, I've been investigated, all of my aides have been investigated, there's nothing here. Well, if Comey knows that there is potentially new information that may impact the investigation, then what she's saying is not true. So under the general theory that the public should be given the information and then they can sort it out, my guess is he wanted us to know that there was new potentially relevant information.

CAMEROTA: Right, before knowing if it is relevant. You know. You've heard lots of legal experts say that it just breaks with protocol, him coming forward before knowing if there's relevant information.

GOWDY: Yes, I wish I had a nickel for every time I asked the media to not report the facts of one of my murder trials on the morning of jury selection, and they did it anyway under a theory that the public has a right to know. I wish the president had not prejudged the investigation when he did so. I wish Loretta Lynch had not met with Bill Clinton on the tarmac. So I wish a lot of things had not happened in this case. Again, this is an unusual fact pattern which leads to unusual conclusions.

CAMEROTA: OK, so in terms of the public's right to know, do you share that same measure about whether or not the FBI should talk about any investigation they've had into Donald Trump's campaign's ties to Russia?

GOWDY: Well, as a general rule, the bureau does not confirm or deny the existence of an investigation, although that rule lately has been honored more in its breach. So if you want the bureau to update the public about an investigation into Mr. Trump, then they're also going to need to update the public about the Clinton Foundation investigation, if one exists. Remember, there's a referral on Secretary Clinton's perjury. There's an allegation that she committed perjury. There was a referral letter sent by Chairman Goodlatte and Chaffetz. They have not updated Congress on that.

I don't view his letter as an update on the facts of the investigation. I view it as a notice document. I want you to know my previous testimony has changed. The matter is still open. That's how I viewed the letter.

CAMEROTA: Well, one of your colleagues on the House Oversight Committee says that you and your Republican colleagues are basically just accepting this double standard, that you do want the update on Hillary Clinton's e-mails, but you're not pressing the FBI for any update that could be, of course, wildly relevant to the presidential race if Donald Trump's campaign had some sort of connection to Russia.

GOWDY: Well, I'm sure my colleague on the oversight was not referring to me. Maybe I'm a universe of one. I don't want an update on the status of the e-mail investigation. I'm not entitled to an update on the status of the e-mail investigation. I used to work for the Department of Justice. They should not be discussing the facts of an investigation until the investigation is over.

[08:10:00] Now, if my colleague meant that Comey should have kept it a secret that they had potentially hundreds of thousands of new e-mails, I just find that interesting. A couple of months ago, they thought that Jim Comey was the second coming of Christ. And a couple of months later, now they think that he should be investigated for violation of the Hatch Act. I don't like relativism whether it exists on my side of the aisle or their side of the aisle. I think the same rules should apply. This is a very difficult, unusual fact pattern. But Alisyn, it is difficult and unusual because of decisions made by people not named Jim Comey. Secretary Clinton is the reason you and I are having this conversation, not Jim Comey.

CAMEROTA: So, congressman, if Hillary Clinton were to win the race a week from now, should the American public and voters expect years and years of more investigations and committee hearings into things that you believe are wrongdoing?

GOWDY: It depends. Congress does not have jurisdiction, and, frankly, we are terrible at investigating potential crimes. But the legislative branch does have an obligation to provide oversight. And part of that oversight, frankly, includes the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice is funded by Congress. So we should provide oversight after things have happened just like we should provide oversight over the CIA and the State Department. But it's not our job to investigate potential criminality. We're bad at it. And even if we found evidence of a crime, there's nothing we can do about it. That's an executive branch function. So it kind of depends upon the nature of the investigation and what our motive and intent and purpose is.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Trey Gowdy, thanks so much for joining us on ne NEW DAY.

GOWDY: Yes, ma'am, thank you, have a good day.

CAMEROTA: You, too. Chris?

CUOMO: Let's get the other side with Senator Ben Cardin of Maryland. He's a Hillary Clinton supporter. It depends, senator. Trey Gowdy giving a good description of the limitations of the House in terms of investigating crimes, but he didn't say there would be no hearings on a then president-elect or president Hillary Clinton. What does that tell you?

SEN. BEN CARDIN, (D) MARYLAND: Well, Chris, we've already seen that the House of Representatives has had more and more investigations concerning Secretary Clinton. So it's hard to predict what they'll do, but I would like to think that they would be objective and that they would only do an investigation if there was a reason to. But that has not been the practice in the past.

CUOMO: So, let's go from what could happen in the future to what's going on right now. Gowdy and other Republicans are making a very obvious case about what Jim Comey just did. He owed it to Congress. He said he would tell them if anything changed, and that's why he wrote the letter. They just took it as a status change, nothing more. Obviously, Donald Trump takes it as a hell of a lot more than that, but they're distinguishing themselves from him. What do you say?

CARDIN: Here's the situation. Information was discovered. The FBI does not know whether it's relevant to Secretary Clinton or not. They haven't reviewed the e-mails. There is no indication that there's anything new that would warrant this type of a scrutiny. But they need to look at it. There's a reason why close to election when you have that type of

information that does not point to an active investigation -- active concern, that you don't make that information public. You hold off because of the impact it could have on the elections. I think Director Comey when he released that should have anticipated that Donald Trump and toaster would then say, use that, and draw conclusions, conclusions that have no merit whatsoever in the information that the FBI has. It's part of a strategy --

CUOMO: Do you think --

CARDIN: It's part of a strategy, I think --

CUOMO: Do you think -- senator, do you think that the FBI director should come out with more information about the case before the end of the election? Do you think that he should do an expedited review, or do you think that's even possible? The suggestion seems that he is not inclined to do so.

CARDIN: Well, first, I don't think he should have sent that notice to congress. Secondly, now that he's done that, yes, I think it's important that that information be made more public so the public can draw conclusions rather than having Donald Trump and others draw their own conclusions that just are without any merit to the information that's available.

CUOMO: The criticism is --

CARDIN: To make more --

CUOMO: The criticism is, you loved him when he was on your side. Now he seems to be doing something that could help the other side, so you don't like him. You're having it both ways.

CARDIN: Well, quite frankly, I would like to see investigations done out of the spotlight of the public. But Director Comey was the one who made his decisions. The fact that he closed the investigation, that is public. The fact that there's more information now that may be relevant, may not be relevant, that needs to be investigated before public comments are made.

So I think he -- look, he's a good person. He made a bad judgment here. And you see how it's being spun in an effort, I think, and a strategy to deal with some of the Clinton supporters, to say, well, maybe there's a question here. You need not come out to vote.

[08:15:08] I think it has something to do with suppression of the voter turnout. People get depressed about this election. And it's been used. And Director Comey fell into this trap.

CUOMO: Well, you've got to be careful about that, right? If he fell into a trap of others, that's as you say maybe a bad judgment. If you say he's part of that trap, then that would go to the Hatch Act. And that's what Harry Reid was suggesting. You don't go that far?

CARDIN: No, I do not at all. I think that he made a judgment. I think the judgment was a bad judgment.

CUOMO: The Russians and their impact on the election. The hacking of these emails seems fairly clear to the government's resources. The Clinton campaign is pushing for there to be more disclosure from the FBI about any potential connections between members of Trump's campaign or Trump himself, and Russia.

Are you in favor of that, when we don't really have any basis to understand that they are even investigating something like that? There's word, maybe, there's a prove or an inquiry, but certainly not enough for the director to feel confident enough to say anything. In fact, he didn't even want the FBI put on the disclosure about Russia's the source of the hacking.

CARDIN: Chris, I have deep concerns about Russia's engagement here in the United States. I have serious concerns about Donald Trump's international involvements.

I would like to see his tax returns. We have a right to see his tax returns. He's running for president of the United States. I think that could be telling, as to his international dealings, as well as his use of our tax code.

That's relevant information. Russia's involvement in the U.S. elections, important information. And any of those associated with the Trump campaign and their association with Russia are all very, very relevant.

But I stand by the point, this close to an election, you don't want to have the FBI, if they're active investigations going forward, they should be very cautious as to what they make public, because it will be used in a political way. That's why, I thought, it was absolutely wrong to send a letter to Congress, a few days before an election.

CUOMO: Senator Ben Cardin, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY, as always.

CARDIN: Thank you.

CUOMO: Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Chris, we are following some breaking news out of Baltimore, where as you can see, the aftermath on your screen right now, a school bus has crashed with a transit bus, killing at least three people. We do not know if any children were on the school bus at the time or which bus the victims were on.

But you see it was a terrible accident. Investigators are on scene, trying to figure out what led to this crash. So, of course, we are working on getting much more information for you. We will bring it to you as soon as we have it.

CUOMO: All right. North Carolina is big and in play in this election. And it's also now the focus of a really ugly moment. Senator Richard Burr apologizing, but what did he say that deserved an apology? Put it this way. It involved having a bullseye on Hillary Clinton,

next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:02] CAMEROTA: North Carolina Senator Richard Burr apologizing after CNN obtained audio of him making an inappropriate joke about Hillary Clinton having a target on her.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. RICHARD BURR (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Nothing made me feel any better than I walked into the gun shop I think yesterday in Oxford and there was a copy of "Rifleman" on the counter. It's got a picture of Hillary Clinton on the front of it. I was shocked at that that it didn't have a bullseye on it.

(LAUGHTER)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK.

Let's bring in CNN political commentator and former South Carolina state representative, Bakari Sellers, he supports Hillary Clinton. And CNN political commentator and former Reagan White House political director, Jeffrey Lord. He supports Donald Trump.

Gentleman, nice to see you.

JEFFREY LORD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning, Ali.

CAMEROTA: Bakari, I'll start with you. Senator Burr apologized. I'll just read that quickly. He says, "The comment I made was inappropriate and I apologize for it."

Bakari, do you think this has any relevance on the presidential race?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that what people are seeing is that we've reached the depths and the doldrums of dirty politics and games and things that should not be said. And I think people are really sick and tired of having this, especially from one of the 101 most powerful people in the world, who is a United States state senator.

It has no place in our rhetoric, no place in our political discourse. I think that Senator Burr is actually apologizing that he got caught. And we see these things said at fund-raisers all the time. And may I dare guess that he's probably said it more than once.

And so, I think what this does is set him back in his race. I don't think it plays a huge role in the presidential race. But I do think it ties into a narrative that people are sick and tired of this rhetoric, which sometimes, especially in this instance, can be dangerous. CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, what do you think about what it says, about the

state of the race, that we're now at this point, where you can make a joke about violence, and it's met with, you know, guffaws from the crowd?

LORD: Alisyn, to be perfectly candid, whatever senator burr said, he should apologize for it, as I guess, he's done. I think it only affects his race.

But, Alisyn, I certainly recall a few years ago that then Senator Kerry was on Bill Maher's show and when Bill Maher -- he talked about going to Vermont for vacation -- I'm going to read you the line, Maher said, "You could have killed one bird with two stones." And John Kerry said, "Or I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone."

There was no outrage to this moment. Hillary Clinton hasn't condemned it. Nobody seems to care.

CAMEROTA: What does that even --

LORD: That's what drives the American people crazy.

CAMEROTA: What does that mean? What does that joke means?

LORD: What it means is that he could have killed the president. That's what it means. President Bush.

CAMEROTA: Oh, he was saying that about, President Bush. Huh.

LORD: Bush, yes, exactly. This is all on tape. I'm just reading you the transcript.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, Jeffrey, what you're saying, I think, is that there's long been violent rhetoric in politics.

LORD: I think this kind of humor is disgusting, to be perfectly candid.

[08:25:03] And in that sense, I agree with Bakari. But most assuredly, it happens on both sides, it's just that the outrage only seems to come when somebody on the Republican side does it.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk, gentleman, about the FBI's disclosure about this new wrinkle in the Hillary Clinton e-mails that may or may not have any relevance whatsoever. Bakari, Hillary Clinton seems very bullish on the trail. She has said there's nothing here, there's nothing to see here, there is no case here, to quote her directly.

How can she be sure, when Huma Abedin says she doesn't know what these e-mails are?

SELLERS: Well, I think Hillary Clinton is very sure that she hasn't committed a crime. I think she also knows that what Director Comey came out and said, which was against policy, back on July 5th, is still relevant today. And she feels fairly confident like everything else feels confident, that this is a nothingburger.

The fact is, though, this l the most disconcerting part. That the FBI is leaking like a sieve. Every single day, we're going to get new leaks from the FBI about one thing or another. But the most troubling aspect is what we know to be a fact is that the FBI was investigating the Trump organization and Donald Trump since this summer.

But they didn't feel compelled to make a public statement. But you have something that may or may not be something with Hillary Clinton's closest aide, and you decide to throw a wrench in the whole campaign 11 days out? That is the Clinton rule. That is the double standard.

If it wasn't Hillary Clinton, Director Comey wouldn't have done it. And he's a great man who made a judgment call based on politics. And that's why we're here today.

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, we keep hearing this from Clinton supporters, basically saying that this is the definition of a double standard. If the FBI is investigating Donald Trump, why don't they make that public? Why did he feel compelled to make whatever new wrinkle this is in the investigation of Hillary Clinton public?

LORD: Well, two quick points here, Alisyn. This is -- we're here in this situation because of Hillary Clinton not because of director Comey. Congressman Gowdy has it exactly right. From the moment she first appeared on the public scene as first lady of Arkansas and turned $1,000 into 100 grand in cattle --

CAMEROTA: Jeffrey, let's not relitigate all of that. Focus on what Director Comey has done.

LORD: Alisyn, Alisyn, it's a pattern. That's why we're here, because she keeps doing it. And her response, the Clinton, at this moment, is to try to make Jim Comey Ken Starr. Once upon a time, special prosecutors like Ken Starr were treated with kid gloves. You weren't supposed to say anything, you weren't supposed to do anything.

And the Clinton White House in the day launched a full-scale attack on a special prosecutor. Now they're doing the same thing to Jim Comey.

So, number one, they get in this situation, and then number two, as is their pattern, and number two, they attack the investigators. This is what they do all the time.

CAMEROTA: So, Jeffrey, you don't see it as a double standard, that he's revealed information against precedent about one of the candidates, but not about the other?

LORD: I don't -- I think that in the first case -- in the first evidence was there for the Justice Department, for Loretta Lynch to seek prosecution. But she, of course, was compromised by Bill Clinton --

SELLERS: That's not true. That's not true.

CAMEROTA: Bakari, go ahead. LORD: It's true. He was on the plane with her. There's no question.

CAMEROTA: Hold on. Let Bakari make his comment. Go ahead, Bakari.

SELLERS: That's not true. The evidence was not there. In fact, Loretta Lynch took a step back and took the recommendation of the FBI. The recommendation of the FBI was not to prosecute.

Which should have happened when Loretta Lynch took the step back after that meeting, which we can all say was ill-conceived, what we can all say should not have happened. What should have happened is Director Comey makes the recommendation and does not make statement, contrary to decades and decades of policy.

That statement, if any statement, should come from Sally Yates, who was the next in line, who is a line prosecutor, who is very respected by both parties. That's how this works.

It doesn't come out where Director Comey gets to come out and make any public statements that he wants to make.

CAMEROTA: OK.

SELLERS: And just briefly, just briefly, really quick, you know, Jeffrey Lord likes to go down these historical tangents, especially about Ken Starr and what the Clinton White House did. Well, Ken Starr is now Hillary Clinton supporter, so take that.

CAMEROTA: Yes, politics, the tables turn sometimes. This is certainly getting curiouser and curiouser.

Gentleman, thank you very much for the debate.

SELLER: Thank you.

LORD: Thanks, Ali. Thanks, Bakari.

CAMEROTA: Election Day is one week away. Join us next Tuesday for Election Day in America. We have every race and every result covered. Stay with CNN until the last vote is cast and even beyond that, quite frankly, you should stay with CNN, I think.

CUOMO: Good call.

CAMEROTA: Lock her up. No, not Alisyn, or at least not today. But that's what Trump folk yell, echoing Trump himself, who constantly calls for Clinton to be in jail. This is a banana republic vibe that reflects a recent trend in our politics. Fareed Zakaria has thoughts you need to hear about where this is coming from and where it may lead, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)