Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Clinton & Trump Battle Into Election Day; Trump vs. Clinton: Path to 270. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 08, 2016 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: None of us want to wake up Wednesday morning and wish we had done more.

[05:59:49] DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Today is our independence day. We are going to win back the White House.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are you fired up? Ready to go?

GOV. MIKE PENCE (R-IN), VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: This presidential campaign has been going on for a long time, but now it's in your hands.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: With your vote, you can say that this country has always been great.

TRUMP: Do you want America to be ruled by the corrupt political class, or do you want America to be ruled by you, the people?

CLINTON: 2016, when everything was on the line, you voted for a stronger, fairer, better America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, November 8, 6 p.m. in the east. And I can't believe I'm about to say this, but it's election day in America finally. The finish line is now in sight for Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Today it is up to you, the voters. Both candidates, though, battling late into last night.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The first polls open this hour. OK? You've got 12 states. Millions of voters will start this great process. People already lining up at their polling stations like this one. This is Richmond, Virginia.

CAMEROTA: Who's that guy?

CUOMO: You know who that is. That's Senator Tim Kaine, Democratic vice-presidential nominee, just cast his vote. There is so much at stake. Who will we be as a country? Which direction will we go?

Let's begin with CNN's Phil Mattingly live in Raleigh, North Carolina. That's a big state today.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question about it. A key battleground and a very crucial toss-up, according to both campaigns. Guys, 18 months -- 18 months of rallies, of round tables, of debates, of back-and-forths, ending here in leigh, North Carolina, for Hillary Clinton.

A big rally, a lot of millennials, crucial to that North Carolina group. Big questions, will history be made tonight?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Hillary Clinton back home in New York after crisscrossing the country on her final day of campaigning, hoping to make history tonight.

CLINTON: Our core values are being tested in this election, but my faith in our future has never been stronger.

MATTINGLY: Appealing to voters at a midnight rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, flanked by Jon Bon Jovi and Lady Gaga.

CLINTON: There is no reason, my friends, why America's best days are not ahead of us.

MATTINGLY: Tens of thousands gathered outside Philadelphia's Independence Hall for her largest rally of the campaign. President Obama and the first lady rallying voters for Clinton.

B. OBAMA: Are you fired up? Are you ready to go?

MATTINGLY: And pleading with them to protect their legacy.

M. OBAMA: I'm also emotional because, in many ways, speaking here tonight is perhaps the last and most important thing that I can do for my country as first lady.

B. OBAMA: I am betting that tomorrow you will reject fear, and you'll choose hope.

MATTINGLY: Obama symbolically passing the torch, pulling out Clinton's step stool for her to speak.

B. OBAMA: It's going to be permanently there for you.

MATTINGLY: Clinton zeroing in on her closing argument.

CLINTON: Every issue you care about is on that ballot.

MATTINGLY: Trying to move past this divisive campaign.

CLINTON: We have to bridge the divides in our country.

I regret deeply how angry the tone of the campaign became.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not your fault. MATTINGLY: A deliberate move, aides tell CNN, to prepare for what happens next, should she win tonight. Governing.

CLINTON: Tomorrow night this election will end, but I want you to understand, our work together will be just beginning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And guys, weeks and months of packed schedules. Let me tell you what's on the schedule today.

You're looking at what Tim Kaine is doing right now. That's it. There's nothing else public for Hillary Clinton or for Tim Kaine for that matter. The field staff hard at work getting out the vote, trying to make sure they raise their margins on election day.

For the most part, it's the candidate by themselves with their closest advisers writing two speeches, according to aides, one concession, one victory. But other than that, alone with their thoughts -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Phil, thank you for all of that.

So Donald Trump last night hitting many of the same themes that he's been hitting for more than a year. He slammed Clinton, the Washington establishment, and the media. Trump says it's time for the working- class to strike back.

CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is live at Trump Tower in New York with more. Hi, Sunlen.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. We certainly did see vintage Donald Trump on his last full day on the campaign trail. Trump only landing few hours ago back here in New York after he made that aggressive final push, campaigning well past 1 a.m. this morning in Michigan.

[06:05:03] And Trump saying it certainly has been a long journey for him, and now 511 days after that journey first started here at Trump Tower, it comes down to this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRUMP: It's now officially Tuesday, November 8.

SERFATY (voice-over): Donald Trump pulling off one final campaign frenzy.

TRUMP: Today is our independence day. Today the American working- class is going to strike back.

SERFATY: Sprinting to the finish with a rousing midnight speech in Grand Rapids, Michigan, blitzing through five states in the final 24 hours.

TRUMP: I thought New Hampshire was going to be my last speech, and I heard that crooked Hillary Clinton was coming to Michigan. I said, let's follow it up.

SERFATY: Trump knocking Clinton's celebrity supporters.

TRUMP: We don't need Jay-Z or Beyonce. We don't need Jon Bon Jovi. We don't need Lady Gaga.

SERFATY: And trying to project confidence.

TRUMP: Today we're going to win the great state of Michigan, and we are going to win back the White House.

SERFATY: The Republican candidate even reflective in his final campaign rally.

TRUMP: It's almost hard to believe. We started a year and a half ago. We started with 17 very talented people. Now we have one flawed candidate left to beat.

SERFATY: Earlier, Trump talking up a celebrity friend of his own, New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady.

TRUMP: He called today, and he said, "Donald, I support you. You're my friend, and I voted for you."

SERFATY: But Brady hasn't publicly endorsed Trump, and yesterday he denied having cast his ballot on a Boston radio show.

TOM BRADY, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS QUARTERBACK: No, I haven't voted yet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY: And Trump will be casting his vote later today here in New York City. He'll be watching some of the returns, spending some time here with family, friends, and staff here at Trump Tower. At some point then he will move over to his watch party at a hotel in midtown Manhattan.

And Chris, the real interesting thing is his watch party is only 1.5 miles away from Clinton's watch party. So such an interesting dynamic. Both candidates so close as the results start coming back -- Chris.

CUOMO: They'll probably be able to hear each other tonight. That will be very interesting. Sunlen, thank you very much.

So this is the day for you in the United States. Polls are going to start to open during this hour. Twelve states will open their doors. Millions of people can go out and exercise their right.

We just watched Senator Tim Kaine in his home state of Virginia. That's a critical battleground, 13 electoral votes up for grabs. Hillary Clinton hoping her running mate's home state there stays blue.

We have CNN's Brian Todd live in Ashburn, Virginia. We just saw Senator Tim Kaine. He's getting out there. How about by you? BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Chris, a lot of enthusiasm here.

People have been lining up since 5 a.m. It's cold outside. They've been braving the cold, snaking this line all the way out the door and around the corner. This is where they're checking in here at Sanders Corner Elementary School, patiently waiting their turn to check in here, then go vote.

Here's what we talk about, about the enthusiasm. You know, it's been a long and very divisive campaign. No one knows that better than you, Chris. But as we talk to voters here in Loudon County, not tamping down their enthusiasm. Look at this line. It snakes all the way out the door. As we said, these people have been lining up since before 5 a.m. We got here long before 5, and there were people here already. Look at this. Going all the way out the door here at Sanders Corner and around the corner.

You know, voters yesterday and the day before, we were at various events in Loudon County, talking to us about they were just tired of the divisiveness of the campaign, tired of the tone and rhetoric, but it never stops their enthusiasm, Chris.

A big surge in early voting here in Virginia. More than 530,000 people cast early ballots. That hasn't tamped down the enthusiasm to come out on election day. Check this out. It's snaking all the way down and around the school. I mean, there were 60-some people here almost an hour before the polls opened, Chris.

So this gives you a real gauge of the enthusiasm here in Virginia. It is a crucial battleground state. The race is tightening in Virginia. Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump have both been in this county trying to win over votes. They're counting on counties like this, because this is a swing county. This could go either way. Obama narrowly won it in 2012. Donald Trump counting on it this year, because he came here on Sunday night in a last-minute appeal, hoping to win some of these folks over, Chris.

CUOMO: Hey, this is what it's all about, Brian. We're going to check back with you.

Let's bring in our all-star political panel. We've got David Gregory, Ron Brownstein, Jackie Kucinich, and joining the team, because they needed some help, "Washington Post" reporter Abby Phillip. It's good to have you all here.

So last night we saw both campaigns end where they began. Very different and defined messages. We saw star power. We saw pageantry. David, what is the takeaway at the end of that last night into this morning?

[06:10:04] DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, it is an amazing contrast that we have. A nasty campaign, very unpopular candidates, two candidates who are scrubbing this electoral map, looking at the shape of the electorate, with very different messages.

You know, Donald Trump is trying to restore an America he says is lost. He represents radical change, crude change to a lot of people, but radical change, what a lot of voters wanted. He's reshaped the Republican Party.

And here's Hillary Clinton, the ultimate insider, a kind of party chief within the Democratic Party, trying to assert her hold over the Electoral College.

So the ultimate insider, the ultimate outsider. A very negative campaign. He finished kind of dark and angry. She finished a little more upbeat as she's trying to unite the country.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: To David's point, we had a billionaire from New York City in the backyard of Walter Ruther in Michigan, talking about the American working-class will be back, as a Republican.

And you had a Democrat in Philadelphia and elsewhere and in Raleigh, basically saying we're going to welcome everyone into this new America. And this kind of realignment of the two-party coalitions, from a Republican Party that was essentially white-collar, white American, and a Democratic Party that was blue-collar white America, to one in which Republicans are increasingly depending on the white working-class and focusing on the Midwest, and the Democrats are this kind of diverse coalition of socially liberal whites and a growing minority population that is tilting them more toward relying on the Sun Belt. But they can't completely abandon the Midwest, and they've got to hold some of those key pieces.

CAMEROTA: Abby, how about that line that Brian Todd just showed us? I mean, he said people have been standing in the cold for an hour before the polls opened, and then you saw it snake all the way out the building and down the block. People are activated. They're energized. You know, regardless of whose message it is you're taking to the polls with you this morning, people want a stake in it.

ABBY PHILLIP, reporter, "THE WASHINGTON POST": And what's amazing is how many people have actually already one this. I mean, this is the election day version of what has been going on for about two or three weeks in some states.

And so I think we are definitely going to see huge amounts of turnout, but for people watching tonight, we're going to be potentially up very late, because some of these lines are very long, because a lot of people are casting their ballots today. A lot of people are making some last-minute decisions about who they vote for. And that's the kind of uncertainty that really leaves us kind of not sure what's going to happen later tonight.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, the other thing I wanted to mention about last night that we haven't seen in other cycles is to the extent that you had the incumbent president here. He's popular. I think he's probably at the height of his popularity. And he left it all on the field last night. I mean, you heard the fired up, ready to go chant. You heard -- this is a whole ball game.

If Trump -- if Donald Trump wins, the chances that the Senate and the House stay in Republican hands are very, very high, meaning his legacy, he will watch his legacy be chipped away piece by piece, you know, over the next couple years. So this really is the whole ball game.

GREGORY: And you talk about the of prospect of 16 years of Democratic rule. This was a president, Barack Obama, who wanted to be a consequential president on the order of a Ronald Reagan. He has an opportunity to achieve that.

It's also what kind of America are we and do we want to be. You know, in "Hamilton," the lovely musical by Manuel Lin-Miranda [SIC], there's that great line in that song, "immigrants get things done." Well, immigrants are now poised to perhaps deliver this election for Hillary Clinton. We are talking about a surge in the Latino vote that perhaps could be decisive in Florida, in North Carolina, in Nevada.

So it's very interesting that immigrants are not just thinking about, you know, comprehensive immigration reform but are thinking about how the country thinks about them as a group, how welcoming we are as a country to immigrants.

KUCINICH: A Hillary Clinton ad actually spoke to that that Jimmy Smits, I believe, narrated. Exactly what you're saying is what they said.

BROWNSTEIN: It's kind of the America we're becoming and all the voters who feel kind of left out from what that is. I mean, the coalition of transformation and the coalition of restoration that Trump is on.

But in terms of the Obama legacy, one other, even bigger legacy, there's not been a Democratic majority on the Supreme Court in 45 years. We have all grown up in a world where there is a conservative and Republican majority on the Supreme Court. And if Democrats win the White House, certainly if they win the Senate, even if they don't, in all likelihood, there's now going to be, for the first time in 45 years, a Democratic majority in the Supreme Court.

GREGORY: Which is one of the reasons they have come home. A lot of Republicans don't like Trump, understand that reality, and they vote -- just like people who are for gun rights.

CUOMO: And then you've got Ted Cruz laying some really frightening groundwork, saying, "You know, eight is fine" on the court.

BROWNSTEIN: John McCain -- you don't have to go as far as Cruz. John McCain has suggested it even.

CUOMO: So you're talking about "Hamilton." You know, another line out of his song, he's talking about he's not going to waste his shot. Hamilton was that embodiment of taking...

GREGORY: I knew we'd get to show tunes.

CAMEROTA: We're there.

CUOMO: I see it as more of a historical reference. I'm not ready. I'm not evolved enough. But, you know, so that's what today comes down to, though. Nobody knows the numbers if as well as you do, Ron, but they are all predicated, no matter what demo you're looking at, at who comes out today. If those lines aren't the reality all over the country, someone is going to lose their opportunity to complain.

[06:15:04] BROWNSTEIN: Every four years the biggest problem pollsters have is not figuring out how groups are going to vote. It's how much of each group is going to vote. And figuring out the composition of the electorate is the biggest challenge. And I would say it's even more important than usual this year, because we're seeing historic divergences.

For example, we are likely to see the biggest divergence ever between the vote of college-educated whites and non-college-educated whites. Donald Trump is so strong among working-class whites but is at risk of becoming the first Republican ever to lose the college whites. The distance between them will be enormous.

The distance between voters of color and non-college whites will be enormous. So every point that is different in the composition of the electorate has a huge impact on the outcome. And probably Donald Trump's best chance on the last day is what it was on his first day, which is that he produces an electorate that is more blue-collar, more nonurban than the pollsters are expecting.

CAMEROTA: Abby, we have a little illustration of what's happening with the Hispanic vote, just based upon early voting. And we just want to show it, because it is notable how much it's up. So if you look at Florida, North Carolina, Georgia -- obviously, we could also look at Nevada and other places -- but you see that it's up significantly. I mean, 89 percent, 79 percent, 144 percent from the last elections.

PHILLIP: Folks are breathing a sigh of relief in Brooklyn about that. Because there was some concern going into this that maybe Donald Trump, you know, being sort of -- vilifying illegal immigrants wouldn't be enough. Maybe it wouldn't be enough to cause some of these folks to come out, and they have.

The question is, especially in a state like Florida, what actually happens to those Hispanic voters. It isn't a sure thing for Democrats in Florida to say Hispanic voters are going to come out 80 percent, 90 percent for them. And I think this is going to be a key test of what happens there.

I still think -- it's been surprising to me how many Cuban-Americans and others are not as...

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

PHILLIP: ... opposed to Donald Trump as one would expect. And that actually continues a long trend of that group, trending toward the Republican Party.

BROWNSTEIN: It won't be 80 or 90, but it will be the highest ever in Florida. GREGORY: Thirty-six percent of new voters in Florida, Hispanic

voters, voting for the first time. Which is striking.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you.

CUOMO: They're going to have record turnout down there. That's for sure. So in that way alone, Florida is going to a model for the rest of the nation.

So we're going to hear from both campaigns this morning. We've got the V.P. presidential nominee for the Democrats, Tim Kaine. We just watched him voting in his home state of Virginia. And we have Donald Trump Jr. is going to be on in the 8 a.m. hour.

CAMEROTA: The race to 270, the big test today for both candidates. Which states hold the keys to victory? Which ones should you be watching tonight? We break all that down.

CUOMO: We get to play with the map. Oh, yes! And do you want a chance to be featured on CNN's election day coverage? Of course you do. It's so easy. Just take a picture of yourself voting. Go to your Instagram, use the hashtag #myvote. You all use like a thousand hashtags anyway. Just include this one. And we'll be picking pictures all day, just like the ones you're seeing on your screen right now. Even your dog.

CAMEROTA: Can dogs vote? That's not allowed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Welcome back, everybody. Let's take a look at some live pictures right now. This is Ashburn, Virginia. And look at all that excitement.

CUOMO: A white court. That alone is startling.

CAMEROTA: But why we are showing you this is because this -- there's a huge line at this school snaking around the block. People have been waiting in line for an hour in the chilly temperatures before the polls opened here, because they were so excited to vote. And there is just a little snapshot of what you'll be seeing all morning.

CUOMO: And look, all different legs but all the faces America.

CAMEROTA: Poignant.

Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton barnstorming several key states in the final hours of the campaign. Where they were matters, as each candidate fights to get to that magic number of 270 electoral votes.

So let's bring in CNN political analyst David Gregory. He's at our magic wall to break down all the numbers. David, tell us what last night says about what they're investing in.

GREGORY: We're going to build a wall. It's a beautiful wall. Ours has the electoral map on it. And it really is a story, Alisyn, of defense and opportunity.

So where was Hillary Clinton last night? She finishes off the night in Pennsylvania. She also goes to North Carolina. Pennsylvania is really about turning out the minority vote, also the college-educated vote in the collar counties of Philadelphia, if they can bring that home. If she can hold onto that, it really shuts down a lot of the path for Donald Trump.

At that point, she could just be a Nevada or a New Hampshire away from going over the top, over 270. She becomes the next president.

If she loses in Pennsylvania, maybe that's a sign that things are happening in the Midwest among working-class white votes that are helping Donald Trump. Could be a sign of a bad night for her, something that she wants to watch out for.

In North Carolina, she's spending so much time there. You have the highest percentage increase in the Latino vote in North Carolina, a great target of opportunity for her, a state that Romney won back in 2012.

For Donald Trump, he goes to Michigan. And he goes to Michigan as perhaps insurance if he were to lose North Carolina. He's really got to sweep lot of these battleground states from in Nevada. He's got to hold Arizona. He has to win Florida and in North Carolina and Ohio. If he loses in a state, Michigan could be an opportunity for him as some insurance. And again, largely white state. maybe a little more in keeping with his voters.

CAMEROTA: OK, David, stay there at the wall. We want you to keep playing with it for us. We want to bring back our panel: Ron Brownstein, Jackie Kucinich, and Abby Philip.

OK, so Ron, what path are you most interested in watching?

BROWNSTEIN: I mean, look, when I first started covering politics in the '80s, we were talking about the Republican lock on the Electoral College. Because there were so many states that were so reliably Republican that Republicans would say Democrats can't win without winning Ohio, and we always win Ohio."

Now there's a different reality. There are 18 states that Democrats have won in at least the past six consecutive elections, the blue wall, 242 Electoral College votes.

CAMEROTA: He's not going to show us the blue wall?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I don't know if he can show us all of the blue wall. It's the 11 states from Maryland to Maine except for New Hampshire. It's Illinois, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin in the upper Midwest. It's the three West Coast states, and Hawaii.

If you just add to that real quick -- just add to that Virginia and Colorado. Just maybe highlight Virginia and Colorado. And New Mexico.

GREGORY: Yes. Highlighted blue.

GREGORY: At that point, you're at 269. And any one other state puts you over the top. So if she holds the blue wall, adds to it Virginia, Colorado, and New Mexico, diverse states with big Hispanic populations, then if she wins either Nevada or New Hampshire, it's done. Even if he wins Florida, Ohio. What that really means, just real quick, he has to break -- he has to dislodge a brick from the wall. Sooner or later.

PHILLIP: This is the key here. Michigan, at the very last minute, became so competitive.

CAMEROTA: OK.

PHILLIP: And it really does kind of scramble the path for Hillary Clinton, meaning that it forces her to really rely very heavily on places like North Carolina and Florida to shut Trump down, because Michigan is the wall.

CAMEROTA: Do you want to see David do that? Do you want to see David -- so give her Michigan.

BROWNSTEIN: Give him Michigan. Give him Michigan.

CAMEROTA: Yes. That's what I mean. Give him Michigan.

KUCINICH: This is where the turnout -- this is where, with the campaign, the groundwork that the Hillary Clinton has done kicks in, because of their turnout operation.

CUOMO: They're doing their operation. I get it.

KUCINICH: That matters.

CUOMO: You're right on your reporting about it. It does, unless you have a wave of enthusiasm that overwhelms organizations. So if he wins Michigan and he wins Ohio and Florida...

BROWNSTEIN: And North Carolina, you win.

GREGORY: No, he's -- well, you got to give him Arizona.

BROWNSTEIN: Arizona, yes. There you go.

CUOMO: Now, that's not implausible.

BROWNSTEIN: No, but the thing is -- I've said it before. I mean, the biggest question, the biggest problem for pollsters is predicting the composition of the electorate. And there are two different ways it could go, though.

One way is that the electorate is more white working-class, more nonurban whites, that that Trump is doing is, in fact, bringing out this kind of army of voters that people aren't expecting.

The other thing, though, Chris, it's equally possible that the electorate will be more diverse than the pollsters are saying. Because, you know, the electorate has been two points more nonwhite every four years pretty much for the last 20 years since 1992. And most of the late polls are essentially having it even or only up one. So if it is more diverse than people expect, it could tile further that way. The good news is we won't have to speculate too much longer.

CUOMO: Right.

GREGORY: Can I add an historical note here...

CUOMO: Please.

GREGORY: ... that is interesting. In the '60s when LBJ was president, and they passed civil rights legislation in 1964, he famously said, "We've lost the south for a generation."

Republicans are in a similar position with the Latino vote. I remember interviewing Lindsey Graham back in 2012. He said, "We are in a demographic death spiral. If we do not pass comprehensive immigration reform, we are not going to become president again."

President George W. Bush does not expect to see another Republican president in his lifetime, he has told people. So this is a moment, when you have a surge in Latino voters, where Republicans are on the verge of losing them.

CUOMO: You know who else said that about immigration?

CAMEROTA: Donald Trump.

CUOMO: Donald Trump.

CAMEROTA: In 2012 after Mitt Romney lost.

BROWNSTEIN: And the statistic we used in the last hour, just worth pointing out, in the last polls, Donald Trump is up 32 points among -- the NBC/"Wall Street Journal" among white voters without a college education. That gets him to 40 percent of the total vote. When Ronald -- it's exactly the same margin that Ronald Reagan had among white voters without a college education in 1984. It got him to 59 percent of the vote. It is a very different country.

Can he squeeze out one more victory with that coalition? Sure. Through the Midwest, topple Michigan and Ohio. In the long run, is that where you would place your chips in the diversifying society? I'm not sure.

CAMEROTA: But Abby, since everybody agreed after 2012 that the key to winning was the Hispanic vote and that Republicans weren't doing it right, that was what was in the autopsy. That's what Donald Trump himself said in various media outlets. And he said what you really need to do is treat them with kindness and make them feel included and like productive members of the society. Why didn't he do that this time around? PHILLIP: How things change. It could very well be because Donald

Trump realized at some point that his -- his most likely path would be going through this sort of white working-class vote, and he really doubled down on that. And it required him to really throw that...

CAMEROTA: Be all in.

PHILLIP: ... that other ideology out the window.

The problem is, as Ron has said ad nauseam, there are not enough people. There not enough voters to make that a truly viable option for Republicans.

The only thing that they can potentially count on is, if potentially, some voters say, "You know what? The divisiveness is something I don't agree with, but you know, maybe I want a Republican Supreme Court. Maybe we don't want to hand Democrats a White House yet again." That's a -- that's a possibility, but I think...

GREGORY: There's also an opportunity cost, and Ron and I have talked about, which is the opportunity cost of Trump doing what he knew -- look, in 2004 it became clear that conservatives in the Republican Party were not supportive of comprehensive immigration reform. That's what sabotaged the late effort by George W. Bush in his presidency. And Trump in 2012 could say that, but that was difficult to achieve in the Republican Party.