Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Trump Picks Priebus as Chief of Staff and Bannon as Top Adviser; Electoral College System Change; A Mom and Son with an Appetite for Giving. Aired 8:30-9:00a ET

Aired November 14, 2016 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Calling it alt-right may be a compliment. Now, this could matter if President Trump starts taking positions that deny rights and play to intolerance.

So let's discuss the potential here with senior editor of "The Washington Post" and author of "Trump Revealed," Marc Fisher, and CNN political analyst and Washington bureau chief for "The Daily Beast," Jackie Kucinich.

Marc, Jason Miller, a spokesperson for President-elect Trump, said people like me are pushing division by being skeptical, and critical about what Bannon could represent. Do you agree?

MARC FISHER, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, you know, Donald Trump is a guy who has two voices coming at him at all times. And he's now putting this into action in the White House. So you have this gift to the establishment in the form of Reince Priebus, and you have this flame thrower, even hate monger, Steven Bannon. And this is quite typical of the way Trump operates. We saw this just the other day with the tweet over the protests in Portland. One minute he's being provocative, even offensive, and then just hours later he's being conciliatory and gracious. And I think what he's setting up is a presidency in which there will be this battle royal between those two forces that have been so dominant throughout his life.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: So then, Jackie, it becomes the question of which voice wins and when. I mean Donald Trump has been said to pay particular attention to sort of the last voice in the room, whoever he's been meeting with last. I mean, frankly, look at his shift on Obamacare that came after he spent 90 minutes in the room with President Obama, saying, all right, I'm going to consider these things. So whose voice wins in that battle royale?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, if you're an establishment Republican, you're keeping your fingers firmly crossed that it's Reince Priebus. And I will note, when you were seeing reaction to these two hires come out last night, no one in the establishment or any kind of elected (ph) Republican was mentioning Bannon. It said, oh, yay, Reince Priebus, he's going to be the chief of staff. It's a great choice.

And then, on the question of Bannon, it's been crickets. And so, you know, because of his divisive stances, because of some of the things that he has said, these are Republicans who are in elected office are going to have to comment on him because he does - he is going to have power because he is - he has the president-elect's ear. So, you know, no matter this team of rivals saying that Donald Trump has set out, you know, the focus really should be on Bannon because of the things that he's said in the past. You have to hold those - that to account.

CUOMO: All right, let's talk about policy. And it is not unusual for presidents to say one thing when they're campaigning for the position and another once they get in. What is your take, though, Marc, in terms of what we've seen with, let's take for example one of the things last night in "60 Minutes," that gay marriage is settled law, according to Donald Trump, but Roe v. Wade is not settled law according to Donald Trump. Here's some sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES": Will you appoint - are you looking to appoint a justice who wants to overturn Roe v. Wade?

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: So, here's what's going to happen. I'm going to put - I'm pro-life. The judges will be pro-life. If it ever were overturned, it would go back to the states. So it would go back to the states and the states -

STAHL: But then some women won't be able to get an abortion.

TRUMP: No, it will go back to the states.

STAHL: By state -

TRUMP: Yes.

STAHL: No, some -

TRUMP: Well, they'll perhaps have to go to another -

STAHL: But do you want -

TRUMP: They'll have to go to another state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Now, obviously, both of these current precedents are called stare decisis. They're decided law within the eyes of the Supreme Court. But what do you make about this moving back and forth that we're seeing with Trump? Typical or is it a deeper read?

FISHER: This is classic Trump. He's trying to make everyone happy. At the same time, he's trying to maintain his reputation as a bomb thrower, a provocateur, and he wants to make deals. So, you know, he considers himself the consummate dealmaker. What we're seeing is what may look on the surface like a wholesale withdrawal from some of the more outrageous promises that he may have made during the campaign. Donald Trump never took those promises literally. He told us that when he was at the rallies and saying all kinds of provocative things, he was looking out at the camera bank, looking out to see if that red light was on, on the camera that meant he was live on CNN or another network. And he said he would say whatever it took to keep that red light on. And he's kind of surprised, almost shocked, that people took those statements literally. And clearly he does not.

HARLOW: He also talked on "60 Minutes" last night about how he would deal with social media. Let's listen to him, because he's right, it was incredibly effective for him in the campaign, but the game changes when you're president. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I'm not saying I love it, but it does get the word out. When you give me a bad story, or when you give me an inaccurate story, or when somebody other than you in another network or whatever - because, of course, CBS would never do a thing like that, right - I have a method of fighting back. That's very tough.

STAHL: But you're going to do that as president?

TRUMP: I'm going to do very restrained - if I use it at all - I'm going to do very restrained. I find it tremendous. It's a modern form of communication. There should be nothing you should be ashamed of. It's - it's where it's at.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:35:12] HARLOW: OK, after that interview, Jackie, on Friday, he sent three mean tweets. I mean that - that just - that is what they are. He called "The New York Times" dishonest, bad coverage, highly inaccurate. As president, how do you walk that line between the sort of open communication with the public, but at the same time acting presidential? Because let's not forget, this comes from the candidate who threatened to multiple times open up libel laws, make it easier for him and other people to sue the media.

KUCINICH: Well, Donald Trump's words have never mattered as much as they do now, as the president-elect. And it's something that he's going to have to adjust to. Listen, we're in new terrain. When was the last - I mean I - we never have had to discuss, well, how is the president going to moderate his social media presence. It just - hasn't really been in the conversation. And someone who is so committed to that.

I mean the other thing that Donald Trump has used social media for is to be very reactionary to world events. He cannot do that as president. That could create all sorts of problems that would have global ramifications. So, you know, as far as his team can get that into his head or try to control that, they probably should, because this could be - some of these things that he's said, you really can't take back.

HARLOW: All right, guys, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

What is your take at home? Tweet us @newday or post your comment on our FaceBook page, facebook.com/newday. Coming up, this election, I don't need to tell you, this is one for

the history books. You know that. CNN has the inside scoop like no other network, including a revelation about Donald Trump and who he would have endorsed had his campaign ended. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:47] CUOMO: Time now for the five things to know for your new day.

Number one, the Trump administration starting to take shape. The president-elect making his first White House staff hires. You've got RNC head Reince Priebus in there as chief of staff, and controversial campaign CEO Steve Bannon, the head of Breitbart, is the chief strategist and senior counselor.

Trump softening some stances in a "60 Minutes" interview. He says his wall along the Mexican border might be a fence in spots. His plans on keeping some of the Affordable Care Act now seem to be even more real.

A big victory for Iraqi forces in the battle for Mosul. They captured the village of Nimrud, an ancient archaeological site overrun by ISIS in 2014. The runs were later destroyed by the terrorists.

Authorities now suspect arson as wildfires rage out of control in the south. Evacuations are underway. Thousands of firefighters battling high winds and drought conditions.

The moon, have you seen it? Holy cow, what a super moon. It's not own full, it's rotating closer to the earth this morning. It's what scientists call a super moon. Promises to be the largest and brightest sighting of the moon in nearly 70 years. Since I was just a child.

For more on the five things to know, go to newday.cnn.com for the latest.

Poppy.

HARLOW: You're younger than I think you are.

All right.

CUOMO: I look good for my age, don't I.

HARLOW: You do, actually.

CUOMO: Seventy-nine.

HARLOW: Seventy-nine and still going.

All right, this election, one for the history books. CNN Politics, of course, there for the wild ride capturing every unexpected turn and compiling it all into its first-ever book titled "Unprecedented: The Election that Changed Everything." It includes a major revelation about Donald Trump in the early days of the campaign, before he thought he would be president. Our Dana Bash, CNN's chief political correspondent, is with us for more.

So he made a deal with Chris Christie back in the day?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a - I should say, Susan Bair (ph), who reported, had a lot of things for this special book that's going to come out at the beginning of September (ph), was told that in 2015 towards the beginning of the Trump candidacy. He told his very good friend, Chris Christie, who was also a candidate for president, of course, that he didn't think he was going to make it past October of that year.

HARLOW: Wow.

BASH: And that if and when that happened, when he got out, he would endorse Chris Christie. So that sort of says a lot about, like you said, the fact that it's not just a surprise to everybody, you know - on the Democratic side that Hillary Clinton is not president, it was something that he didn't even think he was going to do much into the 2016 year, never mind get the Republican nomination and win the White House. So it also kind of helps explain why when Chris Christie got out -

HARLOW: Right.

BASH: He immediately endorsed his good friend Donald Trump -

HARLOW: Immediately. To everyone's surprise.

BASH: And a lot of - and a lot of criticism. A lot of criticism.

HARLOW: Right. Right.

BASH: And he did it and he stood by him and worked really hard with him during the general election.

HARLOW: He did and he got this sort of big spot as the head of the transition team until Mike Pence replaced him in that last week. And now Chris Christie has the cloud of bridgegate over him. Where does he go in a Trump administration?

BASH: You know, it's still unclear. The people who I've been talking to say, do not count him out to have some kind of role in the Trump administration. Our Evan Perez is saying that there is still an FBI investigation underway. It hasn't been completely wrapped up. That could play a role with regard to bridgegate that you were talking about.

HARLOW: Right.

BASH: But Donald Trump is nothing if not loyal.

HARLOW: Yes.

BASH: We saw that with, now - our now former colleague, Corey Lewandowski. He, when he was Trump's campaign manager, he got into a little bit of trouble and - and any other politician would have thrown him under the bus and Donald Trump did not.

HARLOW: Right.

BASH: And, you know, you can sort of tell that story a lot of - a lot of times over with different people. So, sort of a long way of saying, I have been told not to be surprised if Chris Christie does end up with some kind of job. The question is whether or not it would be one that requires Senate confirmation.

HARLOW: Yes.

BASH: And, by the way, he's not alone in that. Some other sort of longtime Trump aides and advisers might have a tougher time than others in the Senate confirmation process.

[08:45:03] HARLOW: Or if he will just have Trump's ear from the outside.

BASH: Exactly. Or even inside.

HARLOW: We'll see. Dana - always the inside. Thank you for the reporting.

You can get more of CNN's behind-the-scenes coverage of this wild campaign, along with never before seen photography, all the twists and turns, order "Unprecedented: The Election That Changed Everything" at cnn.com/book.

Chris.

CUOMO: All right, so the election is bringing back the debate over the Electoral College. Who benefits from it the most? Is it fair? Should we still have it? What do you think? Let's give you some facts, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Donald Trump is moving towards the White House with a big victory in the Electoral College, but he is losing the popular vote at latest count. Now, many are asking, is the Electoral College still the best way to elect the president?

For more we're joined by Julian Zelizer, historian and professor at Princeton and author of "The Fierce Urgency of Now."

Thank you for being with us, my friend.

JULIAN ZELIZER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.

HARLOW: Look, the Electoral College is what it is. This is the way it works, whether you like it or not. Donald Trump addressed this in his interview with "60 Minutes." Let's roll that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LESLEY STAHL, "60 MINUTES": You tweeted once that the Electoral College is a disaster for democracy. DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT-ELECT: I do.

STAHL: So do you still think it's rigged?

TRUMP: Well, I - I think the Electoral College - look, I won with the Electoral College.

STAHL: Exactly.

TRUMP: No, it's -

STAHL: But do you think it's rigged?

TRUMP: Yes, some of the election locations are. Some of the system is. I hated - I hated -

[08:50:03] STAHL: Even though you won you're saying that?

TRUMP: Well, I mean, I'm not going to change my mind just because I won. But I would rather see it where you went with simple votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Simple votes meaning the popular vote.

HARLOW: Sure.

CUOMO: All right, so let's discuss. What do you say, Julian?

ZELIZER: Well -

CUOMO: Tell us again, why do we have the Electoral College? What was it designed to do?

ZELIZER: It was really designed originally to protect the slave states. Many -

CUOMO: How so?

ZELIZER: Many historians agree that there was a fear that the slave states would not have as much of a population in the end as larger states, and so this was a compromise that was undertaken to support the slave states.

It was also - it was also -

CUOMO: And how was it supposed to work? And tell us, how was it supposed to work?

ZELIZER: Originally, you were going to have the electors meet and they were going to vote for the president, basically. And the top two people would be the president and the vice president. This was not popular democracy. This was having electors from the state actually take that decision on their own hands.

HARLOW: So times have certainly changed. And as you know, the Electoral College can be abolished. An interesting thing happened in Maryland this week, they voted on Tuesday to approve a system that basically would give their electoral votes to the president who won the popular vote. Now, for this to actually be implemented, a majority of the states need to pass something similar. We're nowhere near that yet. Do you think that modern times are changing enough where we will see, say in, you know, two, three elections from now, a popular vote as the driver of who wins?

ZELIZER: I'm dubious. I mean you either need a constitutional amendment or you need a constitutional convention. Both are very difficult processes. We've had moments when there's this debate to change to a system of direct voting. The most recent was after 2000 and the Bush v. Gore decision. Everyone said, OK, now we're going to switch to popular voting. But it fizzled. People like the status quo. And now people from small states defend the system because they realize it could really diminish their clout if we move to a different system.

CUOMO: Important distinction. So if everybody went Massachusetts, and created their own law that says we're not going to give the electors to anybody except the person who wins the overall popular vote, would that be constitutional or would it be something that would be overwritten?

ZELIZER: Well, no, we could change the system. I do think it will have to be a national change. Right now there's actually an effort called the National Popular Vote Initiative -

CUOMO: Right.

ZELIZER: Where states are trying to make this decision. But, ultimately, I think you're going to need a constitutional amendment if you want something that's going to stick. And that's a difficult process.

HARLOW: Does it make sense in this day and age, the Electoral College? And regardless of how hard it is to change, do you think it makes sense, given the context you just gave us of when it was created?

ZELIZER: I think we're in an era when a national vote would make a lot more sense. Like those -

CUOMO: But people argue, then the middle of the country loses.

HARLOW: Yes.

CUOMO: That you big population centers along the East Coast -

HARLOW: California.

CUOMO: A little bit in the southeast and southwest and west, they would dominate and they're usually more left than right.

ZELIZER: I think it's hard right now to have a discrepancy where someone can win the popular vote like this and not be the president of the United States. And this system disempowers, in some ways, big states like California or New York, which are more diverse, which are more pluralistic, which really look a lot more like what the nation is about and they don't have the same kind of clout. The small states are already protected in the Senate. The Senate was designed to protect small states. Every state has two senators. So we don't need this on top of it to add that protection.

CUOMO: One other quick question, the electors. So this is not a direct democracy. It's an indirect democracy.

ZELIZER: Yes.

CUOMO: You vote and then you're really voting for your state's electors, who then go -

HARLOW: Who gather.

CUOMO: And they get together December 19th.

HARLOW: Nineteenth.

CUOMO: What do they have to do? What can they do?

ZELIZER: They're supposed to vote for whoever won the vote in their state. Occasionally we have what's called faithless electors. That's someone who votes for a different candidate. We had that in 1968 when a George Wallace supporter in North Carolina voted for George Wallace instead of Richard Nixon. It's unclear what happens when they do that. They're not supposed to, but the law is very ambiguous and so there's room. But there's not a lot of sense that you're going to see that en masse because it would upset the system that we have.

HARLOW: The system as we know it, will it change? We'll see. Julian Zelizer, thank you.

ZELIZER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Appreciate it.

Stay with us. "The Good Stuff," my favorite part of this show, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:03] CUOMO: Time for "The Good Stuff." You're about to meet a teenager from New Mexico with an appetite for giving. All right, it all started when Dillon Duran (ph) began asking his mom, Josette (ph), to pack two lunches. Kids are so spoiled today. No, it turns out, what he was doing was trying to help a friend whose mom lost her job and couldn't even afford food.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DILLON DURAN: If you - if you can't be nice, be nicer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a big heart and it really touched me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: Josette and Dillon even gave the school cash to help kids in need, reminding us to always pay it forward. Boy, oh, boy, Josette she should be proud of the son she has raised.

HARLOW: Absolutely. No question.

All right, you probably laughed a little bit this weekend, right? It's time for some late night laughs from "Saturday Night Live" embracing the tension some people are feeling since Donald Trump has been elected. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": We've actually elected an Internet troll as our president. I haven't seen white people this mad since the O.J. verdict. It's a split screen with white people on both sides. Ahhhh!!!

All my black friends who have money say the same thing when Trump got elected. That's it, bro, I'm out. I'm leaving the country. You coming with us? No, I'm good, dog, I'm going to stay here and get this tax break and see how it works out. Because that's how it is being David Chappelle.

The first time I got some money it didn't work out like that. Most unlikely thing happened ever, it was a black president came out of nowhere. Like, come on, everybody, let's start thinking about everyone else. I just got this money.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": On Thursday, Trump went to the White House and showed us how brave he is by meeting face-to-face with the man who founded ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: And yet "SNL" most notable this weekend for what wasn't funny. The poignancy that they applied to the election and what it should mean for all of us.

HARLOW: And no Donald Trump impersonation. Not one.

[09:00:00] CUOMO: Got to figure that out. Where was Alec Baldwin? How knows the answer to that? Well, he was probably in East Hampton where he lives, but I wonder why he wasn't on.

HARLOW: Or the Bahamas. Yes.

CUOMO: All right, a lot of news this morning. Some big appointments by the president-elect. What do they mean for you?