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New Day

More Members of Congress Call for Evidence of Trump's Claims that Obama Wiretapped Trump Tower; Interview with Iowa Congressman Steve King on Controversial Remarks; Interview with Kellyanne Conway on Wiretapping and Healthcare. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired March 13, 2017 - 08:00   ET


[08:00:00] DAN STEIN, PRESIDENT, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: -- residents from the ban is a huge change in the substance as well as the procedural due process arguments constitutionally. But in the end, if the Hawaii representatives, if the state of Hawaii's arguments were to prevail up to the Supreme Court, it would turn the entire statutory basis of our entire immigration law on its head and suddenly hamstring Congress and the president from restricting immigration on emergency basis for a whole range of reasons that have never considered by a federal court before.

This goes to the very essence of sovereignty, what a nation is. And both Congress and the president's authority are at their highest ebb in the drafting of this resolution to keep us safe.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We're tight on time. I appreciate you both being here. I'm sorry we don't have more time for you. We're going to be talking about this. But Andre, final word to you. He's saying, look, statute 1182 gives the president sweeping authority on issues of immigration which it does indeed. The problem with the first one, you can't discriminate where someone is coming from or the religious minority part. That's out now. And you've got six instead of seven, yes, they're Muslim majority countries. And how much harder is this court fight for you guys this time around, green cardholders aren't included, legal residents aren't included?

ANDRE SEGURA, ACLU STAFF ATTORNEY: To be clear on Dan's point, he's wrong about the statutory authority. The president can designate certain individuals as having a potential terrorist threat. But what he's doing here is designating all individuals from now six countries, Muslim majority countries, as effectively terrorist threats. And that's something he can't do and has never been done contrary to --

HARLOW: For a brief amount of time for the three month period. We are out of time. You'll be back. Thank you guys both very much.

We're following a lot of news as you can see this morning. Let's get right to it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he's making that up, it's a real problem. If it's true, it's an even bigger problem. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All he has to do is pick up the phone. They

certainly should know whether the former president of the United States was wiretapping Trump Tower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Political adviser Roger Stone has communicated with Guccifer 2.0.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would you like better, the one who says Russia is evil or the one who says let's talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The relationship with the Russians cries out for investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're a governing party, everybody doesn't get what they want.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I firmly believe nobody will be worse off financially.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're looking at about 15 million Americans losing their insurance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they vote for this bill, they're going to put the House majority at risk next year.


ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome to your NEW DAY. Alisyn is off. Our Poppy Harlow here with us as always.

HARLOW: Good morning. Good to be here.

CUOMO: Up first, lawmakers demanding evidence of President Trump's claim that he was wiretapped by his predecessor. Republican Senator John McCain calling on the president to prove it. Remember, the president is a phone call away from getting this answer, and he has more power to declassify information than anyone. And McCain says if you can't prove it, retract it.

HARLOW: So the House Intelligence Committee is giving the Justice Department until today to provide any evidence of this wiretapping claim. Now an adviser to the president is more than just doubling down. She's suggesting that there was perhaps much more than just wiretapping of the Trump campaign. This as we are 53 days in to the Trump presidency, so let's begin this hour with Joe Johns live at the White House. Good morning.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. Plenty of doubt and skepticism this morning that the Department of Justice is going to be able to come up with anything responsive to the House of Representatives request. And that is in part because past and current government officials who should know, who should have access to information, have already denied the president's assertions. Still, it's an important moment because of how it could affect the president's ability to be credible going forward.


SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: The president has one of two choices, either retract or to provide the information that the American people deserve.

JOHNS: Pressure mounting for President Trump to provide proof of his unsubstantiated claim that former president Obama wiretapped phones at Trump Tower during last year's election.

MCCAIN: I have no reason to believe that the charge is true, but I also believe that the president of the United States could clear this up in a minute.

JOHNS: And now one of the president's top advisers alluding to alleged monitoring that she says may have involved more than wiretapping.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: There was an article this week that talked about how you can surveil someone through their phones, certainly through their television sets, any number of different ways, and microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera. What the president has asked is for the investigation into surveillance to be included.

JOHNS: All this as the House Intelligence Committee is calling for the justice department to present evidence today to substance ate the president's wiretapping claim.

[08:05:00] REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER: I don't expect we're going to see any evidence. Either the president quite deliberately for some reason made up this charge or perhaps more disturbing, the president really believes this.

JOHNS: The committee has also been looking into possible ties between Trump's campaign and Russia. As former campaign adviser and longtime confidante Roger Stone admits to a private Twitter exchange between him and Guccifer 2.0, the hacker who claimed responsibility for breaching the Democratic National Committee's computer network last summer and whom U.S. officials believe is actually a front for Russian military intelligence, a tool used to meddle in last year's election.

Stone telling "The Washington Times" his conversations with the hacker were innocuous and perfunctory, noting they happened after the DNC was hacked. It comes as the White House says it was unaware that now fired national security adviser Michael Flynn was lobbying to help the Turkish government during the U.S. presidential campaign.


JOHNS: And while all of that is going on, the president has got a busy day on the calendar today. He's expected to hold the very first cabinet meeting of his administration. All but two of his cabinet nominees have been confirmed, Chris. CUOMO: Joe Johns, appreciate it. White House counselor Kellyanne Conway suggesting without evidence that surveillance of the Trump campaign may have involved even more than wiretapping. We spoke to the columnist who interviewed her moments ago. Here is what he said.


MIKE KELLY, COLUMNIST, "THE BERGEN RECORD": I think she was throwing things up into the realm of the possible. But here's the problem. This isn't just anybody speaking here. This isn't like you and me at the bar suggesting something may be going on here. This is the special counsel to the president suggesting that something may be going on. So for that reason I think it's significant.

I think that this is a serious strategy on the part of the Trump administration. And you know what I think is also at work here, Chris, is something also deeper here. There is an enormous distain within the Trump administration, you've probably picked this up yourself, that they don't feel accepted by the Democrats, that there's still a lot of pushback over the fact that Hillary Clinton lost this election. And so what the Trump administration I think is throwing up here is these variety of allegations where they're somehow trying to tarnish the Democrats in any way possible. The issue here, though, however, is do they have any evidence for that. And I think that's still a major question.


CUOMO: Interesting theory from Mike Kelly of "The Bergen Record," because the Democrats won't accept President Trump administration is going back after them. Is that what this is really about, tit for tat? Conway responding to questions about that interview this morning. Here's what she had to say.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": Specifically do you know whether the Trump Tower was wiretapped? You answered by citing this report about the CIA techniques revealed by WikiLeaks. Why would you make a suggestion like that without any evidence?

CONWAY: I wasn't making a suggestion about Trump Tower.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's what you were asked about.

CONWAY: And I answered him about surveilling generally.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you have no evidence that that kind of surveillance was used against Trump Tower?

CONWAY: I have no evidence. But that's why there is an investigation in Congress. That's particularly what investigation are for. And I would note that Director Comey has asked the Department of Justice to make a comment, that he hasn't made a comment. I noticed yesterday on your show with Congressman Schiff that he said he plans to ask Director Comey about this. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right, Kellyanne Conway later tweeting saying, "On wiretap claims, I have said many times that we are pleased the House and Senate Intel Committees are investigating and will comment after response to Bergen Record was about were about surveillance articles and news and techniques generally, not about campaign. Headline just wrong." Kellyanne Conway wants to clear this up. She's just moments away from being on the show so you'll get to hear from her directly and we will test the position.

Right now let's bring in Republican Congressman Steve King of Iowa. Congressman, always a pleasure to have you on the show. You have your own comments to explain this morning. You tweeted support of Mr. Wilders who's running for Prime Minister in the Netherlands. You wrote Wilders understands that culture and demographics are our destiny. We cannot restore our civilization with somebody else's babies. This is being condemned by many regions of American politics and citizenry. What did you mean?

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Of course I meant exactly what I said as is always the case, Chris. To expand on that a little further, I've been to Europe and spoken on this issue and I've said the same thing as far as ten years ago to the German people and any population of people that is a declining population that isn't willing to have enough babies to reproduce themselves.

I've said to them you can't rebuild your civilization with somebody else's babies. You've got to keep your birth rate up and you need to teach your children your values. In doing so, you can grow your population and strengthen your culture, strengthen your way of life.

[08:10:05] That's not happening in any of the Western European countries. France comes the closest to having a birth rate that's a replacement rate. It's a clear message we need to get our birth rates up, or Europe will be entirely transformed within a half century or more. And Geert Wilders knows that. That's part of his campaign and part of his agenda.

CUOMO: If you want to apply that kind of thinking to America, it seems like a complete contradiction of what we're all about. This is the melting pot. We are known by those countries as the bastion of diversity. It's an unqualified strength for us. It sounds like you're trying to white cleanse our population and saying somebody else's babies. I think that means me, Congressman. I'm only second generation in this country. Who is somebody else's babies?

KING: Chris, we're a country here, that if you take a picture of what America looks like, you can do It in a football stadium or a basketball court and you see all different kinds of Americans There. We're pretty proud of that, the different looking Americans that are still Americans.

There's an American culture, American civilization. It's raised within these children in these American homes. That's one of the reasons why we require that the president of the United States be raised with an American experience. We've also aborted nearly 60 million babies in this country since 1973.

There's been this effort we're going to have to replace that void with somebody else's babies. That's the push to bring in much illegal immigration into America, living in enclaves, refusing to assimilate into the American culture and civilization. Some embrace it, yes. Many are two and three generations living in enclaves that are pushing back in resistance against assimilation. It's far worse in Europe than it is today here in the United States, but I want us to be looking at that, promoting the birth rate in America, restoring the rule of law, putting an end to illegal immigration and recognizing we need to be a country that's pulled together on similar values. That makes us stronger.

CUOMO: That's the exact point. It seemed like you were doing the opposite, like you were trying to say someone else's babies means you're either white or you're not right. As you know, that is anathema to what America is all about. Can we get agreement on that?

KING: Well, actually, if you go down the road a few generations or maybe centuries with the intermarriage, I'd like to see an America that so homogenous that we look a lot the same from that perspective. I think there's far too much focus on race, especially in the last eight years. I want to see that put behind us. And I want to see us bonded together. I gave a speech on this on Saturday and half the liberals got up and left the room when I talked about unity -- they're looking for hatred is the point, Chris.


CUOMO: Hold on a second. Congressman, if you suggest that somebody else's babies shouldn't be welcome in a country, you seem inherently divisive. That's why I keep to seem doubling down on it. You say America has different faces, that's fine. You keep making this point that this country needs to be about white people raising their birth rate and not bringing in other people. That's exactly what America is not.

KING: Chris, I never have made that point. I've never said that. I've been characterized as saying that. I've had the blogs out there say I said that. I tell them go, back, watch the tape, listen to the language. Our language is precise. That's not out there.

I did defend western civilization, it starting this summer at the Republican National Convention. And When I said western civilization, that launched people opposed to western civilization. That's a big problem. If we have an element of Americans here that reject western civilization, and that's a big element, that reject western civilization, then what have we?

This is an effort on the left I think to break down the American civilization and the American culture and turn it into something entirely different. I'm a champion for western civilization and, yes, our English language is a big part of it. It's a carrier of freedom. Wherever the English language has gone globally, freedom went with it. Science technology has always lifted up the standard of living on average of everybody on the planet. I want more of that, not less. There are civilizations that produce

very little, if any. This western civilization is a superior civilization, and we want to share it with everybody.

CUOMO: You're entitled to your opinion about all these things obviously. I want to go back at this one more time because it's that Important. A Muslim American, an Italian American, A Christian American, Jewish American, you do realize that they are all equal, all the same thing. We don't need babies from one of those groups more than we need them from another of those groups. Do you agree with me?

KING: Well I would say ...

CUOMO: Why do you pause on a question like that, Congressman? It doesn't depend on any definition.

[08:15:02] You're either an American or not. Muslim American, Italian American, Irish, Scotch, German American which is what your roots are. Either those are all equal things or they are not. What is your answer?

KING: They contribute differently to our culture and civilization. There are moderate Muslims that are equal to in all these ...

CUOMO: I said a Muslim American, people who have lived here who are assimilated.


CUOMO: There are a lot of people teaching hatred in their families who are white, Irish, Italian, who are Muslim. A lot of people preach hate. There's hate in a lot of different groups. I get you have Muslim extremism that there's a concern in this country about it. But I asked you something else. These people are either all equal or they are not in your view. A Muslim American, an Italian American, German American like you and your blood, your roots. They are either all equal or they are not in your mind. What is the answer?

KING: I'd say they're all created in the image of God and they're equal in his eyes. If they're citizens of the United States they're equal in the eyes of the law. Individuals will contribute differently, not equally to this civilization and society. Certain groups of people will do more from a productive side than Other groups of people will. That's just a statistical fact.

CUOMO: It's not as a function of Race. It's a function of opportunity and education. You're not more likely as a Muslim American to contribute to American society. It's about your education and your opportunity, not what your blood is.

KING: Chris?


KING: It's the culture, not the blood. If you can go anywhere in the world and adopt these babies and put them into households that were already assimilated in America, those babies will grow up as American as any other baby with as much patriotism and love of country as any other baby.

It's not about race. It's never been about race. In fact the struggles across this planet, we describe them as race, they're not race. They're culture based. It's a clash of culture, not the race. Sometimes that race is used as an identifier.

CUOMO: Steve King, it's important. I wanted to clarify it. Thank you for coming on the show to do so. America is known for one thing, diversity as strength. Appreciate you being here.

Let's bring in counselor to the president Kellyanne Conway. Thank you.

Let's just pick up on this real quick and we'll move on. The -- you were talking to your kid, which is good; you still got to be a mom. But Muslim-American, Italian-American, Irish-American, I mean, you've got both blood in your background.

Why pause before answering whether or not all of those are equal?

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: I wasn't even listening to your interview with Congressman King. But, you know, this president is the president of all Americans. He's said that in the wee hours of November 9 when he was elected, and he's doing things that will affect all Americans, even those who didn't support him.

But I think you wanted me here for a different reason.

CUOMO: Absolutely. I just wanted to bring you in on the conversation of the morning.

All right, so we had Mike Kelly on. He says he -- that he asked you these questions in the Bergen Record, everybody's talking about the interview right now. The suggestion seemed to be from you that wiretapping could include all these different genres of technological advancements, they should be looked at as well.

The problem is the president is a phone call away from answering all these questions.

CONWAY: Hold on. None of that is true. I was answering a question about surveillance techniques generally. I was reflecting what people saw in the news last week, which were several articles about how we can surveil each other generally.

The answer I've given about the president and wiretapping in Trump Tower is very simple and I've said it many times including this morning on other networks. So that screaming headline doesn't even reach the quote and the content accurately.

CUOMO: Well, you may not have meant it. But the conversation you were having with Kelly was about this investigation, and you brought it up in that context.

CONWAY: No, it was about surveillance generally. It was about surveillance generally. And the fact that --

CUOMO: He didn't ask you about it generally though. That's just true in the transcript. You may have answered it generally, but you were asked specifically.

CONWAY: Chris, I'm not Inspector Gadget. I don't believe people are using the microwave to spy on the Trump campaign. However, I have -- I'm not in the job of having evidence. That's what investigations are for. I've said many, many times throughout the week that the president is pleased that the House and Senate Intelligence Committees have agreed with him that this should be part of the investigation that already exists about Russia and the campaign, an investigation that apparently has gone nowhere so far.

I mean, every single day on this network and others, people are screaming about Russia and the campaign and to what avail? Where is the evidence --

CUOMO: The investigations haven't started yet.

CONWAY: OK, but you're fine with that. You're fine with that investigation taking its time. But when it comes to the House and Senate Intelligence Committee listening to President Trump and including this as part of the overall investigation, somehow that has to be on a rocket docket, that has to have evidentiary proof on day one, that has to have a conclusion before it even starts. That's not fair.

CUOMO: Because they're fundamentally different suggestions.

CONWAY: There's no -- Hold on. But again --

CUOMO: Wiretapping is something he could answer with a phone call.

CONWAY: But, again, the idea that I was talking about broader surveillance in the Trump campaign, no, I wasn't.

[08:20:04] I've said many times, and I'll say it again -- I said yesterday in an interview -- at least your network is interested in playing all the clips so that's good.

I said yesterday that I was the campaign manager. I was speaking to people in Macomb County, Michigan, not Moscow. We have DNI, the former Director of National Intelligence Jim Clapper on a different network last week saying no one under my purview would have anything to do with that. But he couldn't discount local and state. He couldn't discount other people (ph) in the administration.

CUOMO: He said there were no FISA warrants. The suggestion was that there was a FISA warrant taken out on the president. The president basically made that assertion himself, blaming a former president of a felony, calling him a bad or sick person, and offering no proof. That is a very different suggestion than what is the extent of contacts and communications between the Trump administration and Russia. You --

CONWAY: And I would also say in the same article today, with the screaming headline that just is false, is not what I was saying, it also says my husband is in line for the solicitor general job. That job went to somebody else last week.

CUOMO: All right. So that's wrong.

CONWAY: So that's not even -- oh, well, where is the screaming headline? Where is the retraction? Where's the question of credibility?

CUOMO: I never said it. That would be really bad if I did it, because you would have --


CONWAY: You're quoting from an article. Now you're selectively quoting.

CUOMO: But I'm saying I never said that. So you got to treat everybody on the face of what they said. And, look, I get --


CONWAY: Indeed, and what I was talking about was --

CUOMO: -- that you're saying that you didn't mean --

CONWAY: -- was surveillance generally.

CUOMO: I know. But --


CONWAY: But people will fit that the way they want to fit it.

CUOMO: But hold on, I've watched it, I've read it, and I talked to Kelly. He believes that you were throwing it out there generally. But he also says he was asking you about the investigation specifically.

CONWAY: So he believes I was throwing out there generally. Then he should correct his headline. I know it's good clickbait, I know I'm great clickbait.

CUOMO: Well, but also the question is why were you doing that? Because this goes to personal integrity, what kind of message you're putting out. And this seems to be a distraction. You've now had injected into this, look at what Russia's contacts are --

CONWAY: OK, OK, Chris --

CUOM: -- with the campaign, this wiretapping that is without basis. And the person who made the accusation can answer it with a phone call and for some reason hasn't. It doesn't seem right, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: I'm allowed to talk about things that are in the news without you questioning anybody's personal integrity. There were articles last week about how we surveil each other now generally. And that's what I was talking about it.

CUOMO: I understand that they were, but you answered to a specific question about this. And it seemed to be an effective way of putting more doubt on a situation. That's what it came across as. That's why I want to talk to you about it.

CONWAY: Maybe to you and maybe to other people who don't necessarily want Donald Trump to be the president. But to other people, they see it as what it was -- talking about news articles and talking about surveillance generally. It was not talking about the Trump campaign. That's what investigations are for. And the House and Senate Intelligence Committee has agreed with President Trump and they will have the investigation, and that we will comment further after it's done.

But also, you know, I talk about any number of things, everything in the news. He's repealing and replacing Obamacare. There are people who have a health insurance card who literally can't use it. They can't afford the deductions and the premiums. That's something that impacts American lives. Let's talk about real things, not fantasy things.

CUOMO: All right, but --


CONWAY: Let's talk about the budget that's coming out on Thursday. Let's talk about the jobs he's created.

CUOMO: As we know, we talk about all these things. All right?

CONWAY: Sometimes.

CUOMO: Just a couple of things. You said by people who don't want Trump to be president. That is not just fair, OK. My questioning of you, my questioning of his baseless claim about wiretapping, is not about not wanting the president to be president.

CONWAY: Maybe not you, but do you think --

CUOMO: That's unfair and it's hurtful --


CONWAY: Do you think the president is treated fairly?

CUOMO: -- because you are feeding people's animosity. Why even put it out there.

CONWAY: Feeding people's animosity? Look over my shoulder I have 24/7 Secret Service protection because of people feeding people's animosity.

CUOMO: So if that's not right, why do the same thing?

CONWAY: Don't claim that privilege. Chris, the fact is -- CUOMO: Do you think that I'm asking questions to you right now because I don't want President Trump to be president?

CONWAY: No, I don't think that you don't want him to be president.

CUOMO: Then why put the suggestion out there?

CONWAY: No, no, I'm saying there are many people who don't, who then have screaming headlines who are constantly on our backs. They won't give him full and fair coverage. I would like full coverage. I would like people to cover everything that he's doing. You can ask the tough questions. People can attack it. But do you know he's had 33 or 34 executive actions? Everybody wants to cover one or two or them. Do you know what the jobs report said on Friday? 235,000 (INAUDIBLE) jobs.

CUOMO: The jobs report that he used to say was phony. And now he says it's very real.

CONWAY: There too we can't even pause to say, wow, in his first full month in office, 235,000 jobs created, including in manufacturing, construction --

CUOMO: And there were almost as many jobs last February. And the one before that. Four out of the last five Februarys have had similar job numbers.

CONWAY: Well, I'm glad you can flick your wrist at that --

CUOMO: Not that they're not good.

CONWAY: -- if you're one of the miners, and one of the guys in construction who got one, it's a very meaningful number.

CUOMO: No, no, no. It's about what's true, Kellyanne. I'm saying the numbers for February were good, they beat expectation --

CONWAY: What's true is that --

CUOMO: They were not the number he put out the day before, which wasn't the official number. But the point is, this is a man who is now President of the United States who has bad-mouthed the job numbers as phony every time they come out, misstating what the non- participation rate is, right, fundamentally misstating.

CONWAY: OK, so let's talk about the facts of --

CUOMO: But now he says they're not phony anymore. And you don't think that's worthy of criticism?

CONWAY: I think it's worthy to note that there are 235,000 net jobs in his first full month in office.

[08:25:02] CUOMO: And he sets the number where he never did before.

CONWAY: I think it's very notable -- let's talk about some other facts. I think it's very notable that 20 million people have said no to Obamacare, 6.5 million agreed to pay the penalty because they can't afford the premiums and the deductibles, Chris. And then you've got all the other people claiming a hardship exception. You can't have these people who are not being treated fairly under our current health care system left in the cold the way they have been. The biggest lie of all!

CUOMO: And 20 million more covered than you had before.

CONWAY: The biggest lie of all.

CUOMO: None of you will answer whether or not people are going to lose coverage.

CONWAY: No, I have answered that many times.

CUOMO: Are people going to lose coverage?

CONWAY: The president has said everybody will have coverage. He'll have a smooth transition. He said it in his joint session. It was the second of the five principles he laid out for health care. And he looked a his Democratic colleagues and asked them to come aboard, too.

What are their ideas? You have Democratic members on this show and other shows on CNN all day long. I haven't heard one single great idea.

CUOMO: They say what they have right now is better because when the CBO scores your plan you're going to see as many as 10 million people lose coverage --

CONWAY: What they have is better?

CUOMO: -- because you're cutting Medicaid and cutting the amount of money they get to buy health care.

CONWAY: No. Those people will get tax credits and they will be able to have more choices and competition.

CUOMO: But it will be less --

CONWAY: They will be able to buy --

CUOMO: -- money than they're getting now with the subsidies.

CONWAY: You're reading one or two people --

CUOMO: Kellyanne, I read like nothing else. I know -- I'm so deep in this.

CONWAY: Let me have my answer and I'll be happy to.

CUOMO: Go ahead.


CUOMO: But I'm saying, I've got to correct the misstatement.

CONWAY: Here are the facts. No, you're not correcting any fact (INAUDIBLE). You're saying, quote, cutting Medicaid. I'm not going to let that stand. What does that mean, cutting Medicaid? The fact is if you're on Medicaid now and that's how you get your health insurance, that's how you'll get your insurance in the future. The fact is if you get -- if you're one of 175 million Americans, like you and me, who get your health insurance through your employer, you will continue to do that. It's the people -- it's the farmers and the plumbers and the small business owners in between who can't access health coverage because it's truly unaffordable and inaccessible. They can come together --

CUOMO: If you cut the amount of money that you're giving to the states for Medicaid, they're going to have to replace the money themselves. They're going to say they don't have the money in most of the cases. They're going to take people off the roll.

CONWAY: People will get tax credits.

CUOMO: The CBO is going to come out with a score as early as today. There's a very good chance it says exactly that.

CONWAY: So it doesn't bother you that 20 million people said no to Obamacare last year, would rather pay the penalty or claim an undue hardship? Doesn't it bother you --

CUOMO: No, it bothers me that you're going to conflate that with what we're just talking about.

CONWAY: -- that there are five states -- no, no, no --

CUUOMO: Take it one at a time. The Medicaid is separate than the people who don't like the mandate.

CONWAY: No. This is about health care reform that works for Americans, that you can actually use a card that's not fake. You can actually get you and your children care if you need it. That's what the president wants to do here, Chris. And he's doing it through --

CUOMO: You can use the card if you have money to pay for your care. You got to have money, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: Oh, deductibles and premiums? They can't afford that under Obamacare.

CUOMO: Some can't afford it right now. The ACA has problems.


CUOMO: The point is you campaigned so hard on repealing and replacing, that now you're doing it even if it doesn't make the most sense.

CONWAY: It does make the most sense.

CUOMO: Tom Cotton coming out, all these Republicans coming out, and saying they don't like the plan.

CONWAY: Tom Cotton also said that -- he said it -- no, he also said it needs major carpentry and that it could pass. In other words, the president and vice president have met with 35 whips in the House this past week. The vice president went to a lunch for Senate Republicans and talked to them about health care. The president has had Senator Cruz in for dinner. He's been on the phone with Senator Paul. He's working the phones, he's doing what leaders do -- he's listening, he's negotiating, he's deal-making. And he's also -- he has said very clearly, if you have improvements to the bill, we'd like to hear them. He is receiving all these input. He'll have more members there this week. And he's also challenged/ invited the Democrats to come along. We know firsthand as Republicans what it's like to have a bill that's just jammed through on a partisan vote.

CUOMO: They debated this for almost a year when it was Obamacare. Now you want to get it done in like two weeks.

CONWAY: No, no, hold on. No. We want to make sure that people who have care continue to have care. But also these -- being able to buy your insurance across state lines the way you do with auto insurance and life insurance makes sense to people. They want the choice and competition.

CUOMO: It make sense to people; it's also highly misleading. You price insurance based on -- you said car insurance -- where you drive, not where the company is. The idea that you're going to get it from a company in South Carolina so it'll be cheaper -- they price it based on where you are. That is a red herring.

CONWAY: It's not a red herring.

CUOMO: Going across state lines is not going to reduce --

CONWAY: And health care is much more important than driving.

CUOMO: -- cost structure in a real way.

CONWAY: No, it's not. We want people to have more choice and competition. As I sit with you right here, five states in this country and 1,021 counties only have one insurer. It's a non-choice choice.

CUOMO: Because in states like Arizona, they did not put the law into effect the way they could have.

CONWAY: No, their reason -- premiums were up 116 percent.

CUOMO: They didn't expand Medicaid, and they wound up hamstringing themselves, OK? And that popped premiums. There are other reasons that premiums popped that need to be addressed.

CONWAY: The biggest reason of all is the disaster of Obamacare and you know it.

CUOMO: But that's just a slogan. CONWAY: 116 percent in Arizona --

CUOMO: You have 20 million more covered now. You have a rate of increase of increase of cost for health care that is less than before Obamacare.

CONWAY: You just told millions of Americans that don't have health care that they're just a slogan. It's just not true. He wants to help them.

CUOMO: No, I didn't. Listen, Kellyanne.

CONWAY: Chris, he wants to help them.

CUOMO: I did not just tell anybody that thy are just a slogan. That's what gets you in trouble. I am not someone who doesn't want President Trump to be president so I'm asking tough questions. I'm not someone who's calling people a slogan.

CONWAY: You're taking things way too personally.

CUOMO: You said it for a reason, right?

CONWAY: Do you think it's a good idea o that one-third of our nation's counties only have one choice in health insurance?

[08:30:04] CUOMO: No, but you've got to look at why.

CONWAY: The president doesn't think that's a good idea.