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James Clapper Criticizes Firing of James Comey; Justice Department Interviews Possible Replacements for FBI Director; Clapper: U.S. Democracy Is "Under Assault" By Trump; White House Tries To Put Comey Firestorm Behind Them. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 15, 2017 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] DONALD TRUMP,PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This would be a very popular thing that I did, when I terminated Comey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A built in system of checks and balances, that's under assault and is eroding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president is the CEO of the country. He can hire and fire whoever he wants.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Republican should be stepping up to the plate and joining us in asking for a special prosecutor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are any tapes of this conversation, they need to be turned over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's not a threat. He's simply stated a fact. The tweet speaks for itself.

TRUMP: We have a lot of choice. Everybody wants the position. We're going to have somebody fantastic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would strongly urge the administration to pick someone who is completely apolitical.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, May 15th, 8:00 in the east. Up first, the Trump White House trying to handle the uproar over the president's decision to fire FBI director James Comey, but the nation's former Intel chief says American democracy is, quote, "under assault" by President Trump.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: As President Trump deals with the fallout over Comey he is preparing for the first overseas trip of his presidency which will kick off in Saudi Arabia. We have it all covered. Let's begin with CNN's Joe Johns live at the White House. Joe?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Chris, the former national intelligence chief making the case that the president of the United States is undermining the system of checks and balances at the core of the American government, an extraordinary assertion, and just part of the continuing fallout from the firing of FBI Director James Comey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: The fallout over President Trump's firing of FBI director James Comey isn't going away.

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I think in many ways our institutions are under assault both externally, and that's the big news here, is the Russian interference in our election system. And I think as well our institutions are under assault internally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Internally from the president?

CLAPPER: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nation's former intelligence chief James Clapper suggesting President Trump is undermining America's democratic system.

CLAPPER: The founding fathers in their genius created a system of three coequal branches of government, and a built-in system of checks and balances. And I feel as though that's under assault and is eroding.

JOHNS: Clapper also rejecting the president's repeated use of his Senate testimony to dismiss the Russia investigation.

CLAPPER: The bottom line is, I don't know if there was collusion, political collusion, and I don't know of any evidence to it, so I can't refute it and I can't confirm it.

JOHNS: United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley coming to the president's defense while White House aides avoided the Sunday shows.

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: The president is the CEO of the country. He can hire and fire whoever he wants.

JOHNS: Lawmakers from both parties condemning the president's action and demanding an explanation of the president's threatening tweet, suggesting that recordings may exist of his conversations with Comey. The White House denies the tweet was a threat.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: It was inappropriate. I would advise the president not to tweet or comment about the investigation.

SEN. MIKE LEE (R_UT), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: If in fact there are such recordings I think those recordings will be subpoenaed.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We want to make sure those tapes are preserved because we're going to want to look at them in Congress. JOHNS: The top Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee

asserting that Comey should have the opportunity to address the president's allegations in public.

WARNER: I think Jim Comey deserves his chance to lay out to the American public his side of the facts because how he was treated was pretty awful by this president.

JOHNS: Some Democrats now saying they will refuse to confirm a new FBI director until a special prosecutor is appointed.

TRUMP: I thought that this would be a very popular thing that I did when I terminated Comey, because all of the Democrats couldn't stand him. But because I terminated him, they said, ah, we get some political points, we'll go against Trump.

JOHNS: President Trump insisting that an independent investigation is not necessary.

TRUMP: There is no collusion. We have nothing to do with Russia and everything else.

JOHNS: The backlash coming as the president scrambles to replace Comey.

TRUMP: I think the process is going to go quickly.

JOHNS: A decision could come this week after eight candidates were interviewed by Attorney General Jeff Sessions and his deputy over the weekend. Lawmakers from both parties urging the president to look beyond Washington when selecting a new director.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: I strongly urge the administration to pick someone who is completely apolitical.

GRAHAM: The president has a chance to clean up the mess that he mostly created.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Today the president is expected to entertain a visit by the crown prince of the United Arab Emirates, and tomorrow he's expected to host the president of Turkey, President Erdogan, right here at the White House. Chris and Alisyn, back to you.

CUOMO: Joe Johns appreciate it.

Let's bring in the panel, CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein, and CNN political analystsDavid Gregory and Jackie Kucinich. David Gregory most important topic for the day is?

[08:05:05] DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, it is how both the political class and other leadership, be it judicial or not, are going to respond to what Trump has done, not just the firing of Comey but then the add-on comments and threats he's made demanding loyalty and all the rest. As we've been saying all morning, this is a crisis the president has

created by abusing his power, by creating an atmosphere in which we don't know who we can trust in the White House, at a time when there's an investigation going on, there's facts to be gathered, and there's a system to protect. And there's real questions this week about when and whether Republican leaders are going to stand up to the president, who has got an agenda to try to get passed, and say, look, your behavior has got to stop, and we have to get things back on track here.

CUOMO: And just to be clear, the reason that there are no Republican leaders on this show this morning is because they didn't want to come on. NEW DAY asked rank and file, the leadership, we do it on a regular basis.

CAMEROTA: Dozens.

CUOMO: But literally went O-for, so there is a manifest intention not to come on and deal with this.

CAMEROTA: So, Ron, what about that? You made the point that if you look back at history, a similar parallel is when Nixon fired Archibald Cox. And at that time an outcry from all sides. So what's happening now?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a measure of how much politics has changed in the 40-plus years since. After Richard Nixon fired Archibald Cox in 1973 you had even Barry Goldwater, the immediate predecessor as the Republican presidential nominee, condemning him.

But we have moved to a more polarized, tribalized politics, and the Republican leadership and rank and file for the most part almost entirely on Capitol Hill are basically saying we are part of a common enterprise with President Trump. Most of our voters still support him, and therefore they have unwilling to defend the checks and balances that James Clapper talked about.

I would say there is still political risk in this, though, because if you look at 2018, I think by far the biggest risk to Republicans is that those voters who are ambivalent at best about Trump will view them as too compliant and not exercising sufficient checks and balances on him. And so this course which they believe is safe for now, ultimately I think could be riskier if they are seen as not providing meaningful oversight.

CUOMO: And it's easier than they had it in Watergate. That was a real crime. This was a legislative endowed and created prosecutor. You don't have that here. Comey was not popular with Democrats. The president is clearly within his authority to get rid of him. So you don't have the kind of need for bold leadership that you did back then as a GOP guy coming out or man or woman, but they're not doing it. McConnell supposedly said he's OK with Garland coming out, but we haven't heard anything --

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Of course he is. CUOMO: -- other than saying let him defend his tweets. Is there any

price that could be paid for this, or, no, is playing it safe always the best course if you want to stay in Washington?

KUCINICH: Here's where the price could take a toll is that this is a distraction. They're not able to talk about the things they want to talk about. I had a GOP aide call me over the weekend livid, because in the Senate they're trying to work through health care right now. They're trying to put all of that together. And right now, they're being forced to talk about Comey. They're not -- and to use resources to deal with that rather than doing the work that they think they should be doing on their agenda, on things like tax reform.

So because of that, because they are being forced, or being asked questions and forced to talk about Comey, you saw people asking about it at town halls over this last recess. So because of that, that I think is going to have a more lasting effect on the Republican Party as a whole as you go into midterms. Based on what we have now, you know, the facts that we have now.

CUOMO: A lot can change.

KUCINICH: A lot can change. But it seems like their agenda doesn't become executed, that's going to hold a lot more weight with voters who that's why they sent them to Washington.

GREGORY: Think of how craven all of this is. My favorite game is insert Hillary Clinton into this scenario.

KUCINICH: Fun game.

GREGORY: If it's President Hillary Clinton firing --

CUOMO: Better than Parcheesi?

(LAUGHTER)

GREGORY: Yes. I think it's ridiculous. The fact they'd go after her, as we've seen them go after her when she was secretary of state over Benghazi with things like this, it would be an unbelievable display here in Washington. And now all of a sudden they're silent, because there's other aspects of this. It's not just Trump undermining faith in democratic institutions. How about the attorney general of the United States who recused himself from anything having to do with the Russia investigation, but then is in an OK position to recommend the firing of Jim Comey who is leading that investigation? How is that appropriate? How is he escaping scrutiny in all of this?

[08:10:00] Who asked Rosenstein, the deputy A.G., to separately investigate and look for reasons to fire Comey when there was an inspector general of the Department of Justice already doing that? Who is asking those questions in government? The news media is doing its job. What is the government doing in Congress to run down these leads? Aside from the fact that the president's threatening the FBI director over Twitter and demanding loyalty of him, as if that's not outrageous enough, there's actually other stuff try to oversee here. CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Ron.

BROWNSTEIN: I was going to say, and that's why I think it is more than just an opportunity cost risk for Republicans in terms of their agenda. I think there is an affirm of it risk of seeming too compliant with a president who on a systematic basis, which we talked about before as James Clapper also alluded to, has been working to delegitimize and undermine essentially any institution that could check him, whether it is the, quote-unquote, "fake news media" or the quote-unquote, "so-called judges," or firing Sally Yates or Preet Bharara while investigating people in his orbit. I mean, there is a consistent pattern here.

And what you have, if you look at the polling, yes, the floor has not fallen out for President Trump, but he remains -- the ceiling is lower than it has been for any new president. And I think for Republicans in swing districts at some point, they have to ask is there, is the risk of some rebellion from the base if they criticize him greater than the risk of seeming too willing to look past any potential conflicts in the eyes of swing voters. And that is I think a very real risk in a lot of districts in America in 2018.

CUOMO: So what's the pivot? The pivot is going to be what happens next in terms of putting somebody in the FBI. Let's put up the list. Look, this is early. Who knows, the president could say, oh, here's a nice list. I think I'll throw it out.

CAMEROTA: But they talk to a lot of people this weekend.

CUOMO: They did. They had a little bit of a parade and who knows if that was for us or if that means it's meaningful consideration. Now, a name that is not on there is Merrick Garland. We've been talking about it this morning, David Gregory is close with Merrick Garland, hasn't had any conversations about this. But the question for him, would he take it. Would you take lifetime tenure at the U.S. district court, the most important forum except for the Supreme Court and go in a job where you could get fired? But in terms of that pivot, how big of a deal is it who he puts in?

KUCINICH: It's a huge deal who he ends up putting in. And depending who that person is, it's tough for anyone to get confirmed. Democrats are going to make a lot of noise.

CUOMO: You think Schumer is serious about this we're not going to put anybody in until there's a special prosecutor, you buy that?

KUCINICH: I don't know. I don't know.

GREGORY: That's an important point, Chris, because if you look at Merrick Garland, for example, I can tell you Judge Garland is not going to want to be a political football again like he was a Supreme Court come know, this time on the left after having been a football on the right. That would be a horrible position.

But if we can put the list up again, it's interesting. There's a couple of people that stand out. Alice Fisher, who worked in the Justice Department during 9/11 and is a lawyer now at Latham and Watkins, is very politically active. She's very active in the Republican Party, and so that could be a popular choice from that point of view.

Mike Rogers, strong. Fran Townsend worked in the Bush White House, interesting, and Judge Michael Garcia has very strong bipartisan support. So it's a very serious list there that he's working off, and if it's to be believed it suggests that what Trump will not do is put in some kind of crony, which he realizes would be very difficult.

KUCINICH: I think one of the tasks might be to see what these people have all said on Russia. Someone like John Cornyn has said this is a valid line of inquiry. McCabe in his testimony, it doesn't seem like he'd be on the top of the list after what he said last week. So I think just some of these folks haven't talked about the Russia investigation, but I think that's going to be something that is worth looking at as we go through this process.

CAMEROTA: Ron, quickly, you know, there are reports out, Axios for one, not CNN entirely matching yet there's a big White House shakeup coming. Any thoughts on that?

BROWNSTEIN: You could make the case, right? This has been as rocky a start as you can have with by far the lowest approval rating. But I think the paradox here that is if you sweep clean the White House you only add to the sense of disarray which is part of the problem that he faces. So the solution might compound the illness.

And also doesn't matter who you put around you. I'm not saying it's the problem, but the issue is, what the president decides to do, and no strong hand around is you going to overcome your own inclinations.

CAMEROTA: Panel, thank you, very much.

All right, cyber security experts expect the enormous ransom-ware attack to grow as workers boot up their computers today for the first time. These new incidents already reported from China, Japan, Korea, and Australia, just this morning. So far the extortion attacks have hit computers in at least 150 countries.

[08:15:09]

But Europol now reporting that very few people have actually paid the ransom.

CUOMO: Heart stopping video out of Kansas for you. This happened during a NASCAR race over the weekend. You see this? Three cars slam, one goes into flames. Look at the elevation that you wind up getting.

Remember those cars have the flaps on the hood to keep them down. The driver inside, Aric Almirola, was quickly extracted from the vehicle. Doctors say he suffered a fractured vertebrae. Fortunately expected to make a full recovery. No reports of paralysis, very lucky.

The only thing that is more amazing than how fast those cars can go is how well they deal with impact that would just destroy the modern --

CAMEROTA: I can't believe that anybody ever walks away from those. It's remarkable.

On a much lighter note "Saturday Night Live" season finale serving up a Donald Trump, Sean Spicer tour de force with Melissa McCarthy and Alec Baldwin bringing back their hilarious impressions starting with the parody of Trump's NBC interview. Here are your late night laughs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back to James Comey. Your staff has been insisting all week that you didn't fire him because of his Russian investigation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I fired him because of Russia. I thought he's investigating Russia, I don't like that. I should fire him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're just admitting that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that's obstruction of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, so did I get him? Is this all over? Oh, no, I didn't? Nothing matters, absolutely nothing matters anymore?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now I'm filling in for Sean today as you know, Sean is fulfilling his duty as an officer in the naval reserve and that is why he cannot be here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm pretty sure I can see him hiding in those bushes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you surprised that he fired Comey before he fired you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does that answer your question? I honestly hope to God it killed her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sean, just be straight with us for once. What's really going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am being straight with you. I'm telling you exactly what President Trump told me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But what if he's lying to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got to find Trump. I'm going to New York. The press interview is over! I need to find Trump! I promise I'll talk better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That was a long way to go for that joke.

CUOMO: She was actually -- he was actually, that's how good she is. McCarthy was outside CNN during the filming and the exodus of people wanting to get a shot of her doing that.

CAMEROTA: Right, but they didn't show the CNN, I felt they should.

CUOMO: Wasn't funny enough. The kiss we didn't show the kiss. There was this huge kiss between Trump and Spicer at the end of that. I thought there was going to be more reaction to that. I really did. I thought that was a very provocative act but so far it's been pretty mellow.

CAMEROTA: Let us know what you think.

CUOMO: You guys are reactionary, all of a sudden going high-minded?

All right, so the former director of National Intelligence saying American democracy is under assault by President Trump. So does that mean there is a need for some type of independent investigative body for the Russia probe? We'll take a look at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:34]

CAMEROTA: The nation's former intelligence chief, James Clapper, making a bold statement in an interview with Jake Tapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CLAPPER, FORMER DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: I think in many ways our institutions are under assault, both externally, and that's the big news here is the Russian interference in our election system. And I think as well our institutions are under assault internally.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Internally from the president?

CLAPPER: Exactly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now Democratic Congressman Mike Quigley from Illinois. He is a member of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Congressman, good morning.

REPRESENTATIVE MIKE QUIGLEY (D), ILLINOIS: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: What did you think of that --

QUIGLEY: It's interesting. CAMEROTA: Go ahead, Congressman.

QUIGLEY: It's interesting. I'm sorry, it's interesting. My committee is trying to investigate perhaps the most important investigation since Watergate, just how far the Russians went and whether there was cooperation in our country with an attack on the Democratic process. And in the meantime we seem to be in the business of creating scripts for "Saturday Night Live" and headlines for "The Onion." It's just bizarre.

CAMEROTA: Well, tell us how your House Intel Committee investigation is going. Are you seeing any evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia?

QUIGLEY: Well, I think we're on track again. After the obvious concerns and excursions that went forth, I think on a bipartisan basis, working with Mr. Conaway, we're rebooting and back on track. We've already had another hearing, and have scheduled many more. The witness list is moving forward, so I'd like to think we're moving forward on a positive basis. Unfortunately, the American public is distracted mightily with an amazing effort by the president to throw this off track and to convince them something else is more important.

CAMEROTA: But I mean, in other words you do not have any conclusions yet. You're not willing to share anything that you've found yet?

QUIGLEY: Well, I certainly wouldn't share what was revealed in a classified format, but I'd suggest this. We're finding more dots and we're connecting more dots, if the American public heard what I'd heard and read what I'd read, Democrat and Republican would certainly want us to go forward on a full throttle basis.

Whether there's collusion, what I tell folks is, you know, the comparison is, if it was a criminal case at this point there's probable cause to believe we should go forward as to whether there was collusion between the Trump campaign and Russians.

[08:25:10]CAMEROTA: When are you going to be able to share your findings?

QUIGLEY: I think it's appropriate after the investigation is complete on the House and Senate side. Remember, there's a companion investigation, at the same time the Justice Department is going forward as Mr. Comey said before he was fired, and there's also a Department of Defense investigation as to General Flynn's involvement.

So unfortunately, this is going to take a while. It makes it a lot more difficult when the president of the United States is oblivious to all of this, calls it fake news, and quite frankly, obstructs it.

CAMEROTA: Are you still calling for a special prosecutor to do this work?

QUIGLEY: You know, I saw where the White House was going on this a long time ago and asked for a special prosecutor. The fact that the president of the United States thinks it's OK to ask the FBI director for his loyalty rather than his honesty, to fire him after the director asked for more resources to move forward with this investigation.

After the first public hearing in which Director Comey said that there was an investigation, that the Russians did hack and they did so to help one candidate over another, you know, that's when he made the extraordinary allegation that President Obama wiretapped Trump Tower.

So it's clear, he's doing everything he can to obstruct the investigation, and we can't let him do that.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, I guess, that the issue is, of course, how it would happen, because the Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein would have to appoint that person, so are you comfortable with how that would unfold?

QUIGLEY: Well, at this point I'm not comfortable with anything coming out of the White House, and that's why we need public pressure, and a Democratic and Republican effort to make sure that the investigation is funded at the appropriate level, and there's true independence in those who are looking into this.

And I would suggest to the White House, if this is indeed fake news, then they have nothing to worry about. Let's hear what those tapes say with your interview, discussion or dinner with the director, and tell your people at the White House and in the campaign to fully cooperate with the House, Senate, and the Justice Department. Let's find out exactly what happened. The American public have a right to know.

CAMEROTA: Congressman, we've asked a dozen Republican lawmakers to come on the program this morning and they all declined. What are your Republican colleagues telling you behind the scenes about how they're feeling about all of this today?

QUIGLEY: Yes, you know, I think unfortunately they're going to have to take their turn, in the final analysis, they're not going to come forward and talk to the American people until the American people demand it, and I suppose it's a good time for the president to leave town, because it's not getting any better here, and hopefully they'll convince him to put away his tweet account and get busy running the country.

CAMEROTA: I'm not sure how much you should wager on that, Congressman. Who do you want to see or --

QUIGLEY: I'm on optimist. I'm a Cub fan.

CAMEROTA: Very funny. Who do you believe will be the next director of the FBI?

QUIGLEY: Look, I have no clue what comes out of this White House. I believe what they should do is find somebody who is as apolitical as possible, a veteran prosecutor, and someone willing to tell the president of the United States the truth. I think if that discussion did take place, in which the president asked for the director's loyalty, and Mr. Comey came back and said I'm going to give you honesty, I think that's the kind of person you need.

CAMEROTA: Do you have a name for that person?

QUIGLEY: No. Look, I think there's a lot of qualified people. I'm not sure anybody who would want that job right now, because why would you leave some extraordinary job that you have now, knowing that an impetuous president could impulsively fire you at any moment?

CAMEROTA: Congressman Mike Quigley, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY. We appreciate your time.

QUIGLEY: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We have a quick programming note for you, tonight at 9:00, Chris will sit down with the top Democrat in the House, Nancy Pelosi, for a live town hall meeting, that's only on CNN. Looking forward to that, Chris.

CUOMO: All true. President Trump signing an executive order forming a Voter Fraud Commission. Will they find millions of fraudulent votes like the president has repeatedly claimed without any evidence? We'll speak with the person heading up the commission. What is it really about? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)