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Friend: Trump is Considering Firing Robert Mueller; Cabinet Members Take Turns Praising Trump. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired June 13, 2017 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's considering terminating the special counsel.

[05:57:21] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The echoes to Watergate are getting louder and louder.

SEAN SPICER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has been clear. He wants this is to get investigated as soon as possible and be done with it.

JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's an honor to be able to serve you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney general's involvement is highly questionable.

JAMES COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: My sense was the attorney general knew he shouldn't be leaving, which is why he was lingering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's up to the American public to decide whether they think that Sessions is telling the truth.

SPICER: He's going to testify. We're aware of it. And we'll go from there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo and Alisyn Camerota.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Tuesday, June 13, 6 a.m. here in New York. And we do begin with major developments on the Russia investigation.

Here's your starting line. A long-time friend of President Trump is doing him no favors, saying the president is considering firing special counsel Robert Mueller. The White House denies the conversation even happened.

Now in just a few hours, Attorney General Jeff Sessions will testify in public before a Senate panel about Russia and the firing of FBI Director James Comey. The question: will Sessions invoke executive privilege to avoid answering some tough questions? CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, the White House still will not answer a simple

yes or no question as to whether President Trump has tapes of his conversations with Comey.

And President Trump's first full cabinet meeting is generating headlines this morning for the highly unusual spectacle where each member heaped praise on the president. Afterward, the top Democrat in Congress made his own video mocking that moment.

So we have it all covered for you. Let's begin with CNN's Ryan Nobles. He is live on Capitol Hill.

Give us the latest from there, Ryan.

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn, good morning to you.

Of course, another day, another major hearing here on Capitol Hill. This time around, it is the attorney general, Jeff Sessions, scheduled to appear in front of a Senate Intelligence Committee, although it's not clear just how forthcoming the attorney general's testimony will be.

And his testimony comes at a time where there are concerns that President Trump and his associates may be attempting to interfere in the efforts of Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER RUDDY, FRIEND OF TRUMP'S: I think he's considering perhaps terminating the special counsel.

NOBLES (voice-over): Just hours after leaving the White House, President Trump's longtime friend, Newsmax CEO Christopher Ruddy, claims the president is considering firing Special Counsel Robert Mueller, the man in charge of investigating possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.

RUDDY: I think he's -- he's weighing that option. I think it's pretty clear by what one of his lawyers said on television recently. I personally think it would be a very significant mistake.

NOBLES: White House press secretary Sean Spicer insisting "Mr. Ruddy never spoke to the president regarding this issue."

But hours earlier, Spicer's deputy said that Ruddy, quote, "speaks for himself."

Several Trump allies now attacking Mueller's credibility, despite initially praising his appointment. Former Trump campaign adviser Newt Gingrich tweeting Monday, "Republicans are delusional if they think the special counsel is going to be fair." But only last month, Gingrich praised Mueller as a, quote, "superb choice."

One of the reasons for the revolt? Who Mueller has hired for his legal team. CNN analysis of FEC records reveals three of the five lawyers on Mueller's team have donated almost exclusively to Democrats, with two giving the maximum donation to Hillary Clinton's 2016 campaign.

Still, White House sources tell CNN Trump's advisors are urging him not to fire Mueller, a move lawmakers feel could backfire.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE (via phone): It would be absolutely astonishing, were he to entertain this. The echoes of Watergate are getting louder and louder.

NOBLES: All of this comes ahead of today's public testimony by embattled Attorney General Jeff Sessions. Sessions is expected to face a grilling about his contacts with Russia and the firing of James Comey.

COMEY: He was very close to and inevitably going to recuse himself for a variety of reasons. We also were aware of facts that I can't discuss in an open setting that would make his continued engagement in a Russia-related investigation problematic.

NOBLES: Sources tell CNN Comey told senators behind closed doors that Sessions may have had a third meeting with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, which the Justice Department denies. It will likely be brought up today, along with Comey's account that Sessions was booted from an Oval Office meeting back in February before Comey said the president asked him to drop the Michael Flynn investigation.

COMEY: My sense was the attorney general knew he shouldn't be leaving, which was why he was lingering.

NOBLES: It's unclear whether Sessions will invoke executive privilege to avoid answering questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe that executive privilege in conversations between himself and the president...

SPICER: I think it depends on the scope of the questions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And of course, the other big questions lingering here in Washington: are there tapes of those conversations between President Trump and James Comey? It's a question the president refuses to answer, but the Secret Service telling "Wall Street Journal" they know of no such recordings. And more than a dozen White House staffers have told CNN that they also do not believe those tapes exist.

Of course, there is a deadline of Friday for the White House to produce those tapes if they do, in fact, exist -- Chris and Alisyn.

CUOMO: Ryan, thank you. Let's bring in the panel. We have CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman; CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin; and reporter and editor-at-large for CNN Politics, Chris Cillizza.

Maggie, you've got reporting on this this morning, it would be easy to dismiss Ruddy under the category of "with friends like these who needs enemas," right? With what he's doing to President Trump on this. But it's not just him. People are questioning, it seems, with some type of guile here, Bob Mueller. What seems to be at play?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there's two things going on. In terms of what -- what's going on with Bob Mueller and the questioning that I think, you're just seeing there is no action viewed as nonpartisan anymore. You are basically seeing everything -- if a Democrat does something, therefore they are doing it for partisan reasons. He has people who are working for him who are Democrats.

You have a lot of conservatives who see the main option for essentially giving the president antibodies on this is to question Bob Mueller's credibility. It's interesting. Because you had a lot of people, including the former House speaker who has been critical, initially said this is fabulous; this is a great choice.

In fact, Bob Mueller's credentials were so solid that he interviewed for the FBI intern job we learned yesterday, thanks to Mr. Ruddy. I think a day before he was named as special counsel. And that in and of itself is interesting.

In terms of what Ruddy is doing, I take the opposite view. I don't think this is a friend-enema situation, other than the idea that he's trying to basically kill this. I think you are seeing what you have seen over and over again with President Trump, where someone goes public, essentially to talk to him through the press, because it would be very odd to do a trial balloon that then ends in the next sentence with "And I think this would be a really bad idea," which is what Chris Ruddy did.

The other problem that this White House has, they refuse to answer the question yes or no over the course of five hours. The president is either thinking of this or he's not. Sean Spicer really helpfully cleared it up five hours later or so, in a statement that said the president speaks for himself, and that's it. Well, great.

JEFF TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: He said Ruddy speaks for himself.

HABERMAN: No, and the president later...

TOOBIN: Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize.

HABERMAN: No. Yes. And Ruddy speaks for himself, too, which I don't think was in dispute.

The White House is facing a problem of, No. 1, the fact that so many people come in and out of this White House that, when you see people physically in the building, you do assume that they know what they're talking about, No. 1.

CAMEROTA: Sure.

[06:05:10] HABERMAN: No. 2, you cannot literally, from the very first news conference, or whatever that was that Sean Spicer did about the crowd size the day after the inauguration, you can't tell people, essentially, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes," day after day after day and not expect that it will hit you in terms of benefit of the doubt. Whether they want it right now or not, I don't know, but I do know a number of aides within the White House are indeed telling the president this is a bad idea.

This is also a president who may or may have said this seriously, if he said it at some point. He says lots of things.

CAMEROTA: So Jeffrey, I mean, I hate to get out too far ahead of this, because this is speculation.

However, since the White House won't exactly answer it, what happens if President Trump follows his own lead, where he fired James Comey and then fires Robert Mueller. Then the investigation goes away? What happens?

TOOBIN: Well, let's just start with how he would have to fire him. Under the rules of the special counsel, he can't just say, "You're fired." What he has to do is instruct his attorney general to fire him. The attorney general, presumably, is recused from that decision, so it would be Rod Rosenstein, who just hired Bob Mueller, who would be required to fire him.

CAMEROTA: It would complicated it.

TOOBIN: Then the question is would Rod Rosenstein actually follow through, or would he, like Elliot Richardson in 1973, and William Ruckelshaus in 1973, refuse lower in the chain to do it? That's what the Saturday Night Massacre was.

So, you know, the question is firing him is not as simple as, you know, on "The Apprentice," firing someone. But if he was fired, the investigation would go away. He's...

CAMEROTA: Congress would then intervene. Right?

TOOBIN: yes, that's true. But I mean, they would have to pass a law the -- like the Ethics in Government Act. But if anyone believes that Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell would sort of, on a dime, set up a special prosecutor.

CUOMO: The legislation would have to make its way to the president.

TOOBIN: Exactly, yes. So I think he really could kill the investigation if he wanted. Presumably, he would pay a political price for that. But as a practical matter, I think he could do it.

CAMEROTA: Chris Cillizza, your thoughts?

CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS CORRESPONDENT AND EDITOR AT LARGE: Politically, it would be a death sentence to do that, except that this is Donald Trump. So what looks like a death sentence -- I got out of the Donald Trump predictions game right around...

CAMEROTA: November 9?

CILLIZZA: Yes. No, before that. I got out in about February 2016 when he started winning things.

So who knows the political laws of gravity do look like they hold more to Donald Trump, president, than Donald Trump, candidate, in that when he says and does things, his poll numbers at this point, unfavorable at 59 in a poll yesterday, about half of that is strongly unfavorable.

So it looks like political gravity does hold for him. I think it would be crazy for him to do that doesn't necessarily mean he won't do it. And I'll say this. And I'll say this a lot in my family life. I agree with Maggie. I think this is Chris Ruddy talking to the president of the United States in the one way he knows he will listen: on television.

CUOMO: Well, look, if nothing else, they got 8 minutes and 30 seconds of talking about whether or not Mueller is going to go rather than what Mueller is actually doing.

Let's shirt topics. Maggie, Jeff Sessions, this matters today, was supposed to be a little bit of a curve ball. Supposed to be about oversight. He said, "I'm not going to that. I'm sending my deputy to those." Then he wanted to do the Senate intel privately. Even Burr said, "No, it's got to be public." So now today, exactly how deep do we expect the questioning to go, not just because of a potential immunity play, but what the questions are.

HABERMAN: OK. Chris Cillizza's wise mark of predictions, with that caveat, I don't think that we are necessarily going to hear that much. I think the people who think we're doing to hear, you know, James Comey part two, that they're likely to be disappointed. I think that you will see the attorney general get pressed on a couple of different areas. The main one is going to be why he didn't reveal everything about meetings that he had had with the ambassador.

CUOMO: Do we know what his answer is?

HABERMAN: I don't -- I don't personally know. Others on this panel might.

CUOMO: Because he's answered it before.

TOOBIN: He has said that he did not meet in a campaign capacity, so he didn't report every senatorial contact he had. And so I think that's going to...

CUOMO: How does that work for you? I meet with a lot of people. There was nothing special about this. There was nothing covered of any interest to anybody, so I just didn't mention it.

TOOBIN: You know, again, that may yet involve the special counsel, because the form that he fills out does not say, "Did you meet in one capacity or another?" It just said, "Did you meet?" So it is a false and inaccurate statement.

[06:10:09] The question is will Mueller regard it as an intentional false statement worthy of investigation and prosecution.

CAMEROTA: And then of course, Chris Cillizza, he'll also be asked about that exchange between President Trump and James Comey and why, No. 1, he was described as lurking around during that conversation and then why he allowed himself to be dismissed from the room so that President Trump would not have further conversation with James Comey.

CILLIZZA: And don't forget the follow-up conversation, at least as Comey describes it, in which he says you have to stop the president from doing these sorts of things. And Sessions gives no answer, is silent. And to Comey's description sort of gives the, you know, I don't know...

CUOMO: Push back on that, right, Chris?

CILLIZZA: I think he does. I think he does.

CUOMO: I think if you're going to hear an immunity, you know, that would probably be the most likely category for it, because that's a sticky wicket. You know, what did you know about that conversation? Why did you leave? You left because the president told you to. That's tough to get around. So what did you ask Comey about what was said? What did you do about it? Do you know the president was going to do that? That was going to be tough questions. It will be interesting to see if he ducks them.

CILLIZZA: They can be, and I think he'll likely duck them. Look, Jeff -- Jeff Sessions is -- made his bones in this campaign for his unflinching loyalty to Donald Trump. I'm skeptical that today is the day that those ties break.

CAMEROTA: There is reporting that there's more bad blood now than there was.

CILLIZZA: And no question. No question. But Jeff Sessions, I think, wants to keep his job, Alisyn. And now, he's not going to perjure himself. Obviously, there are limits, too. And I think he will answer the question to the best of his ability.

But Maggie said this isn't a Comey, part two. It -- I think we should prepare for that. The idea that Jeff Sessions is going to crack the case wide open, I think is unlikely, given what we know about Jeff Sessions. My -- my thought, Chris, to your question is what he'll say is, you know, "Jim Comey misread that situation, at least from my perspective. I left the room because the president asked me to leave the room. When Jim Comey asked me to intercede, I made clear to him that I would." Right? It's the same thing we'll get back to, a "he said versus he said." His perception was this. My perception was that.

CUOMO: It will be interesting. I remember reading a long time ago, a clear conscience never threatens to resign. So it will be interesting what Sessions wants to say he knew. We'll see soon enough. CNN's special coverage of the Sessions hearing is going to begin at 2 p.m. Eastern.

CAMEROTA: President Trump's first full cabinet meeting took a bizarre turn. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... to serve as vice president to the president who's keeping his word to the American people.

REINCE PRIEBUS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The entire senior staff around you, Mr. President, we thank you for the opportunity and the blessing that you've given us to serve your agenda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Basically, they said grace. Did the president order his cabinet secretaries to praise him in front of the cameras? Our panel takes that up next.

CUOMO: I made Cha-Cha do that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: All right. So there's kissing up to the boss, and then there's this. President Trump held his first official cabinet meeting, and it turned into a rather bizarre lovefest. The president's top brass lavishing praise, one after another on him, seemingly trying to out-praise each other. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENCE: Thank you, Mr. President. And this is the greatest privilege of my life, serving as vice president to a president who's keeping his word to the American people.

ALEXANDER ACOSTA, SECRETARY OF LABOR: Mr. President, I'm privileged to be here, deeply honored. And I want to thank you for keeping your commitment to the American workers.

DR. TOM PRICE, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Mr. President, what an incredible honor it is to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. At this pivotal time under your leadership, I can't thank you enough for the privilege that you've given me and the leadership you've shown.

REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Mr. President, thank you for the honor to serve the country. It's a great privilege you've given me.

PRIEBUS: On behalf of the entire senior staff around you, Mr. President, we thank you for the opportunity and the blessing that you've given us to serve your agenda and the American people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: If you'll excuse me, I have to shower now.

Back with us, Maggie Haberman, Chris Cillizza and Jeffrey Toobin.

Maggie, what's happening here?

HABERMAN: Come on. I mean, you know exactly what's happening.

CAMEROTA: Meaning beforehand, he said, "OK, the cameras are going to be there. Each of you could say something fabulous about me."

HABERMAN: I actually don't think the president himself ordered that edict. My guess is that some interim person, if they felt the need to even order it, ordered that edict.

But those of us who have seen Donald Trump for a long time in Trump Tower settings, for instance, know that this is how his staff there talk to him, too. So I think that it's not a huge leap. The problem is, as with everything, this is the seat of U.S. government. This is the cabinet room. This is a somber meeting.

And instead of -- you know, look, it is absolutely a privilege to serve as vice president. It is absolutely -- you know, I thought Rex Tillerson was the most demure, basically just saying, you know, "It's an honor to serve your agenda. Thanks for giving me this opportunity." Everything else translated into what I thought "The Washington Post" captured very well about two weeks ago, as essentially "dear leader" language that we don't hear in this country. That was surreal.

TOOBIN: It was -- it was very North Korean, I thought. Interestingly because I'm sort of weird, I watched that whole video. And Mattis, Secretary of Defense Mattis does not exactly play along. He says, you know, "I'm proud to represent the men and women in uniform." He does not do the praise.

CUOMO: Here's Mattis. To your point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JAMES MATTIS, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's an honor to represent the men and women of the Department of Defense. We're grateful for the sacrifices our people are making, for the strength of the military, for our diplomats, always negotiate from a position of strength.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HABERMAN: One of the things that you continue to see with Donald Trump is that he has a real difficulty distinguishing between the personal and the institutional. And so he has -- there is this weird sort of quality about how he runs this government. You saw Mattis there as the only person who really didn't join in that and made clear this is about something broader. This is about country. We are in shared sacrifice. And that is -- that is essentially. This meeting was a distillation of the problems that you see this president inflict upon himself repeatedly.

[06:20:06] CUOMO: Look, I want to thank the president for the opportunity to discuss a very important issue with you, Chris Cillizza, which is this notion that balance means you must be nice, and you can criticize. But there must be a leavening of both.

Margaret Sullivan really took this on well in the "Washington Post," but that's not the right question. The question is not whether or not you're being nice to the president. It's whether you're being fair, whether you're covering the things that matter. But there is this -- this is perfect what just happened at the meeting. Because this is what the White House is saying. You have to be nice, too.

CILLIZZA: I think that there's a tendency to dismiss stuff like this, because, look, no policy got me. OK? It was a photo-op that turned into a - - something else. But I think that these sorts of moments or windows into Donald Trump's psyche and how he views the world, which is him at the center of it and everyone else as a sort of helpful spoke in that wheel.

The idea that you would have these people, billionaires, tremendously accomplish people in the military, Reince Priebus, whatever you think of him, as the chairman of the Republican National Committee, serious person, that they would go around and each sort of lavish praise on him while he sat there.

His -- I was watching the video there. His role is remarkable in that. Just imagine if you guys had the NEW DAY staff all sitting around a table, and they just went around and praised you. It would feel odd for you. You would almost certainly feel a little uncomfortable.

CAMEROTA: Or great.

CILLIZZA: Well, Cuomo would be fine. Alisyn, you might be a...

CUOMO: I could use a dose of it, I'll be honest, because it's not what happens at our staff meetings. I'll tell you that right now.

CILLIZZA: My point is, is like look, the normal human reaction, even if you didn't really feel this way, would be a bit abashed. Kind of like, you know, "Yes, I mean, I am -- I guess I am pretty great." His response is to sort of like preen, you know, nod knowingly, because that's...

CUOMO: Strong point.

CILLIZZA: ... what he is. He's a performer. He wants to be praised.

CUOMO: Well said.

CILLIZZA: He wants to be surrounded by people who tell him he's great.

CAMEROTA: The late-night comics have -- made some hay of this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": This is next level weird. This is an unprecedented public stroke-fest for an emotionally frail man, OK? That is absolutely chilling, right, Mark?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, boss, it's absolutely true. Whatever you say. It's an honor, sir.

SETH MEYERS, HOST, NBC'S "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": That's right. There's never been a president who's done more. Even Bill Clinton took six years to get impeached. I might do it in six months, you guys. We are racing. We are racing ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HABERMAN: And scene.

You think -- Chris, the point you made about how -- and I guess I missed the Margaret Sullivan piece. But it is absolutely true. And this has been the case with Trump, you know, since the dawn of Trump, which is you used to get these calls when you would cover him long before he was actually a candidate, saying, "Everything is so negative. Why is this piece negative? Can't you write a nice story?"

And that is not the job of what -- certainly what journalists do. And that is not the job -- that is not -- you know, welcome to Washington, Mr. Trump. It is not a nice town. And there is a degree to which I think that we are -- we are hitting the expiration date on the learning curve period for the president. He's been there for six months now. At a certain point -- but he's never going to change. This is who he is.

CUOMO: And also, he's not a victim. I think that, you know, the important point for people to remember is it's not like this is coming out of nowhere when the president is being criticized. If you tweet, say, or do something outrageous as president of the United States, it tends to bite you in the behind.

TOOBIN: I also think we -- you know, our behavior has changed somewhat, and I think in a good way. You know, we especially in the more mainstream press, you know, had this very -- did have sort of a preoccupation with balance. And any time somebody said "X," we got someone else to say -- but then Donald Trump started saying, you know, there were thousands of people cheering after 9/11. And that there were the biggest crowds ever at the inauguration. And that Barack Obama wiretapped him.

And we started saying, "That's false. There are not two sides to that story. That's false." And I think that is a positive development in our business, because we're being honest. We're not manufacturing balance when there is none to be found.

CAMEROTA: So Chris, obviously there's still the question lingering about whether or not the president taped James Comey. The White House seems unable to answer a simple yes or no. But we've been promised this week we will get an answer.

CILLIZZA: Yes. By Friday. Donald Trump, again, always playing the reality TV show host. Basically, on Friday at that joint press conference with the Romanian president said, "Stay tuned. Very soon, we'll have something," dot dot dot, cliffhanger.

TOOBIN: What, I don't understand -- but why? I mean, what's the political advantage of that?

CILLIZZA: There is none.

CUOMO: What's the advantage?

TOOBIN: Why is that -- Why is that possible?

CILLIZZA: Because that's who he is, Jeff.

HABERMAN: Enjoying watching the show, Jeff.

CILLIZZA: Because that's who he is. That's exactly right.

CUOMO: Because you don't know, you're going to ask about this. This is doing to take your attention. There's intrigue. There's buildup, gives him power.

CILLIZZA: It made no sense politically, Jeff. You're right.

TOOBIN: Yes, but that's the question.

CILLIZZA: It makes zero sense. You would want to deal with it and have it over with. But who he is is "keep the eyeballs on me. All press is good press. As long as they are talking about me I'm winning."

HABERMAN: No, he's right. How can you even question that at this point after watching this over the last two years? I mean, this is what he does. What is -- what is the political advantage in half this stuff, including saying that there were thousands of cheering Muslims on 9/11, which is demonstrably not true, but which he continues to insist is true.

CUOMO: Catered -- catered to phobias and anger that were relevant at the time. Made him a vehicle of message for that group.

HABERMAN: I give you all that. It was still a politically risky thing. Just because he managed to gamble correctly does not mean that every single time there is either some clear motive or that there is going to be a gamble that he thinks that he can win and he has thought out.

CUOMO: But that's the calculus, because if we do, is this artifice or not, because you ask him...

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: ... is this about health care...

HABERMAN: I don't think it's calculus.

CILLIZZA: I'm with Maggie, I think... CUOMO: But wait a minute. This is sustained here, Chris and Maggie.

It's not just one side of the box. You asked if there were tapes, and they said, "We'll get back to you." It's -- they're coordinating a message of confusion on this.

HABERMAN: But they coordinated a message of confusion on other things, too.

CAMEROTA: Right. But Jeff said, what's the point of a message of confusion? They'd rather we be talking about health care.

CUOMO: They still have the ball. You want to know if we have tapes. And at the end of the week when they say, "Yes, there are no real tapes. But you know, you guys are so crazy. It's all you want to know about, because that's the way you people are. That's why people hate you."

And all of a sudden, we're like, "But you never answered."

HABERMAN: It's the "SNL" parody of Sean Spicer. Right? That's your word, ban, echoing your language. That is actually a little bit what this is like. Which is why are you guys so obsessed with the tapes? Well, because you said there were tapes and you're the president, and this on, and on, and on.

CUOMO: Then they say, "I never said there were tapes." I said, "You better hope there aren't tapes."

HABERMAN: Right. "My answer will disappoint you." Or whatever it was. Right.

CAMEROTA: All right. Well, thank you for that lively debate.

CUOMO: Resting disgust. There it is.

All right. So just when you think, "Well, boy, you know, Donald Trump, has is -- he's really pushed it.: He is nothing compared to the man who's about to enter the fray once again in North Korea. Dennis Rodman is heading back. The best detail we can tell you is who's sponsoring him to go to North Korea. We have a live report from Pyongyang. Rodman is back.

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