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New Day
Interview With Corey Lewandoski and His New Book "Let Trump Be Trump". Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired November 14, 2017 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: A new development in the Russian investigation.
Donald Trump, Jr. has released private messages he exchanged with the WikiLeaks Twitter account during the 2016 presidential campaign. It's the second time Trump, Jr. has faced scrutiny in this investigation. Earlier, it was revealed that he agreed to a June 2016 meeting with a Russian attorney who promised dirt on Hillary Clinton.
Let's discuss what all of this means in the context of that campaign with former Trump campaign manager and newly-minted author, Corey Lewandowski.
He now has a book called "Let Trump Be Trump." We will talk about the book. We've carved out a long -- a lot of time for us, Corey, so don't worry about that. Good to see you on the show.
COREY LEWANDOWSKI, AUTHOR: Thanks for having me back, appreciate it.
CUOMO: All right. So let's just start at the beginning, OK?
The Russian investigation -- do you accept the U.S. Intelligence Community's assessment that Russia tried to interfere, and did so, during the election? Do you accept that?
LEWANDOSKI: Well, it seems to be that there is uniformity here that Russia, through a series of companies, did try to impact the election by buying ads through Facebook, which was a privately-held company, and trying to influence the election.
What we now know, unequivocally, is that the head of the Clinton campaign's legal team took money -- a pot of money and paid a former MI6 special agent to get information from Russia to create a false dossier. That money also came from the DNC. So it looks like, unequivocally, the Russian did try to impact the election through the Clinton campaign -- absolutely.
CUOMO: Hold on a second. So you're saying that you accept the Intelligence Community's assessment but you are saying that the dynamic was that the interference was conducted through the Clinton campaign?
LEWANDOSKI: Well --
CUOMO: That is a notion that doesn't meet any standard or any piece of proof that we've gotten from the investigators today.
LEWANDOSKI: Well, let's go through it, just to be clear.
CUOMO: I get the spin, but go ahead.
LEWANDOSKI: We each have to be clear.
Look, we can look at the Federal Elections Commission reports which delineate where the campaign spent their money. And what we've seen now and what has been publicly stated and agreed to by the Clinton campaign is that their chief legal counsel had his own pot of money and hired an MI6 spy who was the head of the Russian desk for Great Britain to put together a dossier.
What we also know is that the Trump campaign, of which I helmed for about 18 months, never spent one dime for a foreign agent to go and get information from Russia, but that's not the case for the Clinton campaign.
CUOMO: It's also not the standard. Spending money on oppo research isn't the standard, you know that.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, Chris, we have never --
CUOMO: And you have said --
LEWANDOSKI: Never, never, never.
CUOMO: Hold on, Corey, let me --
LEWANDOSKI: Never has a campaign spent money, that I'm aware of, with a spy before to go and get information. Oppo research is made all the time.
CUOMO: But you should -- you should ask around because you guys are all in a dirty business, OK, and you spend money and give it to anybody --
LEWANDOSKI: From any.
CUOMO: -- who can get you dirt on somebody else, but that's not our discussion.
You have said before we had no contacts. Nobody from our campaign -- nobody, nowhere, no how. You used the word no in as many contexts as you could. We now know that's not true, Corey.
So let's start with context. I'll get back to the Clinton stuff. I see it as the distraction. I'll talk to you about why.
But you said there were no contacts. There are now many contacts and you are part of it in terms of a chain of communication. So do you have a new recollection of what contacts were made with your campaign that were involved with Russian interference?
LEWANDOSKI: Let me be as clear as I can be, Chris. I've said this many, many times.
I have never, to the best of my knowledge, ever communicated with anybody who was a Russian, a Russian agent, a Russian supporter, or somebody who was from the Russian government in any way, shape or form.
CUOMO: How could you know that?
LEWANDOSKI: Well, that's why I say to the best of my knowledge I've never communicated with. Now, maybe you're a Russian agent, Chris --
CUOMO: Carter Page?
LEWANDOSKI: -- and now we're -- look --
CUOMO: Papadopoulos.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, both of those people, to the best of my knowledge, are U.S. citizens. And maybe they're not U.S. citizens but I thought that both of those people are American citizens born in this country.
CUOMO: Being an American citizen isn't the standard. Both of them were reaching out wanting to take meetings.
I'm not saying they're dirty. I'm not saying that they're Russian agents. I'm saying you don't know what they are.
But what we do know is that you said you had no contact and nobody had contact and we now know that's not true. Look, at least those two men --
LEWANDOSKI: They were doing it on their own. Chris, what they were doing on their own, I can't control.
CUOMO: But you knew about it and they were making contacts with Russians trying to help the Trump campaign.
LEWANDOSKI: I have --
CUOMO: And they were meeting with people who had some odd associations of their own and you said it never happened --
LEWANDOSKI: I have --
CUOMO: -- and it did.
LEWANDOSKI: I had no contact whatsoever, to the best of my knowledge, with anybody who is a Russian or a Russian agent and that I know of, no Russian or Russian agent ever tried to contact me. That is not the same standard for the Clinton campaign.
CUOMO: What about what Carter Page did? What about what Papadopoulos did?
LEWANDOSKI: Look, Carter Page -- Carter Page was not an employee of the campaign. CUOMO: What about what Trump, Jr. did in that meeting with Kushner and Manafort?
LEWANDOSKI: I mean, Chris --
CUOMO: What do you call those meetings?
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, I wasn't part of that meeting. Let me be very clear about that.
CUOMO: But you were on the communication chain.
LEWANDOSKI: I was not on -- I was not on that communication chain so please get the facts right. I was not on the communication chain as it related to that meeting. I was made aware of that meeting --
CUOMO: No, no, no. I'm talking about with Papadopoulos and with Carter Page, not with the Trump, Jr. meeting.
LEWANDOSKI: I'm -- look, Chris, you can't conflate them all so let's talk about --
CUOMO: I'm not.
LEWANDOSKI: OK, so --
CUOMO: You're picking one that works for you. I'm asking you about all of them.
LEWANDOSKI: Oh --
CUOMO: Papadopoulos had meetings that you said never happened.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, I don't --
CUOMO: Carter Page took a trip that you said never happened.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, I don't know what Carter Page did as a private citizen. I have no more ability to tell Carter Page that he can or cannot go somewhere as I have the ability to tell you you can't go somewhere. Chris, he didn't --
CUOMO: Knowing what he did and saying you could control it are two different things.
LEWANDOSKI: He didn't work for the campaign.
CUOMO: He reached out to you about it.
LEWANDOSKI: He didn't work for the campaign, Chris. He --
CUOMO: You said he was an adviser to Trump.
LEWANDOSKI: No, I didn't say that. What I said, very clearly --
CUOMO: I have your -- I have your words right in front of my face. LEWANDOSKI: Here's what I said, Chris. He was named to an advisory committee --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEWANDOSKI: -- of which he never participated, is what I said. It was one meeting --
CUOMO: You said he was advising the campaign. You were quoted as saying it.
LEWANDOSKI: Quoted by who? Quoted by who?
CUOMO: At the -- at the time at which you left -- at the time at which you left the campaign you said Carter Page was still involved as an adviser to the president -- to the candidate.
LEWANDOSKI: No. What I said very clearly -- what is said very clearly is if Carter Page wants to go to Russia, he doesn't represent the campaign because he has nothing to do with the campaign, so I can't control where he goes and what he does.
And as a matter of fact, what Carter Page was asking for was the opportunity to go and give this speech at the exact same location that Barack Obama gave a speech in 2009.
CUOMO: This has nothing to do with Barack Obama.
LEWANDOSKI: What do you mean, Chris? You have to give the full context.
CUOMO: He -- you knew that Carter Page was taking a trip. But you said you don't know anybody about doing anything. Don't you understand why that seems deceptive?
LEWANDOSKI: No, no because let me be very clear. The guy didn't work for the campaign. He didn't have a Donald Trump e-mail address and he did not give --
CUOMO: He sat at a table with the president.
LEWANDOSKI: He did not sit -- Chris, Carter Page --
CUOMO: The president bragged about him as an adviser.
LEWANDOSKI: Carter Page sat at the table so please get your facts right. I know it's new but get your facts right. Carter Page was not at that meeting. He never sat there.
CUOMO: He was announced by the president and somebody.
LEWANDOSKI: You said -- Chris, you just said he sat at the same table as the president. That's factually --
CUOMO: Papadopoulos was at the table in the picture.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, again, don't conflate --
CUOMO: Carter Page was on the board.
LEWANDOSKI: Don't conflate the people.
CUOMO: It's not about conflating. Corey, look, I know what you're doing.
LEWANDOSKI: You're saying -- you just said Carter Page sat at the table. That is factually inaccurate.
CUOMO: Papadopoulos sat at the table.
LEWANDOSKI: OK, now we're --
CUOMO: Carter Page was announced as part of that panel. The president sat and talked about him in positive ways. You have spoken about him as an adviser to the president.
I get what you're doing but the reason I'm asking you is I thought maybe --
LEWANDOSKI: I'll be happy to go through --
CUOMO: -- you'd want to clean it up now.
LEWANDOSKI: I do.
CUOMO: That you had to have your recollection refreshed --
LEWANDOSKI: Look, Chris, I'll go through --
CUOMO: -- to show that you had communications with these people.
LEWANDOSKI: I'll go through it 100 percent with you, but the difference is you cannot make a false statement like you just did --
CUOMO: There is no false statement.
LEWANDOSKI: -- to Carter Page -- you just said Carter Page sat at the table with the president. That is factually wrong.
CUOMO: Papadopoulos was at the table and you said that nobody had any contacts with anybody, and you were wrong, Corey.
LEWANDOSKI: I said no Russian.
CUOMO: When are you going to own it?
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, I said I have never had a contact with a Russian. That's what I've said. I'm standing by that.
CUOMO: No, you said nobody with the campaign had anything to do with anybody or anything to do with Russian interference and it's not true.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, those two individuals -- Carter Page was a volunteer on an advisory committee of which met one time and he didn't show up for it.
Now, if you want to go and give a speech at the same place Barack Obama gave a speech, how could I --
CUOMO: This has nothing to do with Barack Obama.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, Chris, you have to put it into context.
CUOMO: That is a distraction. That's not -- but that's not the context.
LEWANDOSKI: It is the context.
CUOMO: You said nobody had any meetings. I just wanted to give you a chance to change it. You don't want to change it. That's fine.
LEWANDOSKI: Well, I'm just telling the truth.
CUOMO: Are you?
LEWANDOSKI: I am.
CUOMO: How is it the truth that nobody from the campaign had any contact with anybody that had anything to do with Russian interference?
LEWANDOSKI: How would I know if Carter Page, as a private citizen, had a contact with somebody?
CUOMO: Because you talked to him about going and saying making sure you go there as a private citizen. Don't go in the capacity with the campaign.
LEWANDOSKI: Because he didn't work for the campaign.
CUOMO: Then you had Sam Clovis talk to him about it.
LEWANDOSKI: But, Chris, I said you can -- I said you can do whatever you want to do because you don't work for the campaign.
CUOMO: But you -- either you knew what he was doing --
LEWANDOSKI: So how could I tell somebody to go or not to go?
CUOMO: -- or you didn't know what he was doing.
LEWANDOSKI: I didn't know what he was doing.
CUOMO: So you didn't know? So you just told him go there as a citizen, don't go there as the campaign, but you didn't know where he was going? What'd you think, he was going to get ice cream?
LEWANDOSKI: All I said was you cannot go -- no, he --
CUOMO: Where'd you think he was going? LEWANDOSKI: You know what he said he wanted to do? He said he wanted to go to the exact same place that Barack Obama gave a speech in 2009 --
CUOMO: So as soon as you heard Barack Obama you said well, there's -- that's a man of integrity so I guess it's OK?
LEWANDOSKI: I --
CUOMO: Is that what you said?
LEWANDOSKI: If the President of the United States, as a sitting president, went and gave a speech at a -- at an institution of higher learning then I'd think it would probably be OK. Maybe not, but I think we should have the same scrutiny then why Barack Obama gave that speech there.
CUOMO: So you're saying that Carter Page and Papadopoulos --
LEWANDOSKI: He did not work for the campaign.
CUOMO: -- and what they did -- look, you can say that now but you also said he was an adviser to the president.
LEWANDOSKI: I --
CUOMO: I get why it's convenient to say it now.
LEWANDOSKI: I didn't say that. He was released as part of an advisory committee of which met one time and he didn't attend.
CUOMO: Yes, but he was named by the president, he was relevant. You directed Sam Clovis to deal with him. Did you do that with everybody who was inconsequential to the campaign?
LEWANDOSKI: No. Look, if you look at the members of the foreign policy team some of those people are General -- you know General Bert Mizusawa, Admiral Kubic. Those individuals were part of the team and showed up for the meeting and had a lengthy discussion about foreign policy.
CUOMO: All I'm saying is you said nobody did anything. That was your basic blanket statement. We now know that's not true.
We don't know if it was criminal. We don't even know if it was really wrong. We've got to see what the special counsel says.
LEWANDOSKI: That's exactly what we should do.
CUOMO: The idea that you never heard of anybody doing anything is just demonstrably false and that leads us to what we know now about WikiLeaks with Donald, Jr.
You left before this. Full disclosure to people. You were out months before these October communications. But what do you make of Donald, Jr. apparently -- let's do it in the best light to him -- being baited by people from WikiLeaks to kind of be involved with what they were up to? What do you think of that?
LEWANDOSKI: Well, what I think is this. I think that Donald, Jr. should get the credit for releasing his e-mails proactively. We now know that he did this on his own to demonstrate what the communication was.
And what we know is that there was this massive uproar, including by "The New York Times," attempting to get Donald Trump, Sr.'s tax returns.
And what they said -- and Dean Baquet from "The New York Times" said he was willing to go to jail to get a copy of the president's tax returns because he thinks there was some major announcement in there that he wanted to share with the American people.
And what we know is two days or a week before the first general election debate those tax returns were released and what we saw was Donald Trump was really, really rich. This is not a surprise to anybody.
And what we also know is that WikiLeaks, who are now attempting to get those tax returns, probably to give them to a media outlet to make a story. But what Donald Trump, Jr. did was he released those e-mails and said I'm not going to give those to you because there's no relevance to them.
CUOMO: I don't know what Don, Jr. said to them. That's not part of the release.
But, Don, Jr. was asked to tweet a link by WikiLeaks of some e-mails that they had hacked, OK? Then, the president talked about WikiLeaks and that they deserve more attention. Then, Don, Jr. released that link which was publicly available but he seemed to accommodate the request from WikiLeaks.
You want to go somewhere with the taxes, have fun. It's not central to what I'm asking you about right here.
What do you make of that series of communications? Do you think Don, Jr. should have been doing that with an organization that Mike Pompeo, Trump's pick for the CIA, says is a hostile, non-state actor abetted by Russia?
LEWANDOSKI: Look, here's what I think. I think Don, Jr.'s a private citizen. He can tweet or retweet anything he wants to and doesn't have the material -- an effect on the outcome of the campaign and he has a privilege to do that.
I agree with Mike Pompeo. I -- you know, to the best of my knowledge, I've never communicated with WikiLeaks and I can't answer for or speak to what someone else is doing of why they've tweeted or retweeted something that they were asked to do. That's not my job here. And I wasn't anywhere part of that transaction or the history, as you clearly indicated at the part of this segment, that I had nothing to do with it.
So everything that I would say would be speculation of why Don, Jr. did it. We don't have the full context so let's give him the opportunity to come out and articulate what happened and why he tweeted or retweeted something.
CUOMO: But he's already talked to authorities.
I'm asking you something else. Do you -- I'm saying do you think he should have done that?
LEWANDOSKI: Look, that's not for me to say.
CUOMO: Of course, it is.
LEWANDOSKI: I have no idea but --
CUOMO: You were a campaign manager.
LEWANDOSKI: I was the campaign manager.
CUOMO: You're twisting yourself into all kind of shapes to defend the president and the campaign on different levels. Defend them on this one. Why was it OK to have that kind of communication with WikiLeaks, a known hostile, non-state actor often, in this case, abetted by Russia, according to the head of the CIA?
LEWANDOSKI: So look, I don't when Mike Pompeo made that statement about WikiLeaks. My guess is since he's only been the head of the CIA since January and this occurred in October, I don't know if we knew back in October that WikiLeaks had that same type of notion behind them. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
But I don't think it's fair to say that looking back a year ago that we would have known what WikiLeaks was about. WikiLeaks has been widely reported on every major media outlet for their ability to delineate information, particularly the Podesta e-mails. So --
CUOMO: Delineate? They stole them.
LEWANDOSKI: They --
CUOMO: What delineate? What word is that?
LEWANDOSKI: OK, so they had them and what they did is they gave them out and nobody ever said that the information that they gave out was false. It never was --
CUOMO: They stole the guy's e-mails.
LEWANDOSKI: And they released them.
CUOMO: It's not about whether or not they falsified the e-mails. I know there was some political back-and-forth about that. But they stole them, they didn't delineate them.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, I don't know how they --
CUOMO: Look, you used to be in law enforcement.
LEWANDOSKI: I mean, I have -- I have --
CUOMO: You ever say that? You delineated my car? They stole the e- mails.
LEWANDOSKI: I have no idea how they got the e-mails and I don't think it's fair for you to say how they got them. We think that they stole them but I don't know.
Chris, you're not a cybersecurity expert and neither am I, so --
CUOMO: Well, you don't have to be one. All I have to do is read what the Intelligence Community has said and --
LEWANDOSKI: Which Intelligence Community said that they stole John Podesta's e-mails?
CUOMO: They say that they are at the root of the Russian interference. They're one of many different agencies they used. Unless you want to give WikiLeaks cover here. If you believe that WikiLeaks --
LEWANDOSKI: I give them no cover.
CUOMO: -- had nothing to do with it, that's fine.
LEWANDOSKI: I give them no cover, Chris.
CUOMO: That's fine. Well, you seem to be giving them --
LEWANDOSKI: The mainstream media covered WikiLeaks on multiple occasions throughout the campaign for the release of those e-mails. So you can't say that they're a Russian agent of whatever you've claimed that they are -- maybe they are, I have no idea -- and then use them when it's convenient for the Podesta e-mail chain.
CUOMO: When have we ever used them? What are you talking about?
LEWANDOSKI: You're telling me you've never --
CUOMO: We reported on the -- look, hold on.
LEWANDOSKI: Of course, you did.
CUOMO: Let me be clear about this. When WikiLeaks put out the e- mails we reported on it, no question about it.
There was an issue early on about whether or not they had hacked confidential information or classified information. That gets -- as you know as a former law enforcement guy, gets fuzzy under the espionage act and whether or not you can cash, and nobody's been prosecuted, but that was a little bit of a question. But once they came out, we put them out there.
But the idea that they found them -- they were hacked, the e-mails. Hacking is a crime. You know that, right, Corey?
LEWANDOSKI: Look, it is a crime and I have no idea how they get the Podesta e-mails.
What we know is that CNN and other networks, with that information, covered it because it was newsworthy. Right? That's the baseline here.
So you took information that you say came from a Russian agent, which is WikiLeaks, and you perpetuated it on your news coverage because it was newsworthy.
CUOMO: Mike Pompeo says that they were abetted by Russia and they are a hostile, non-state actor, OK?
LEWANDOSKI: And look -- and I -- and I respect Mike Pompeo.
CUOMO: So that's your choice. The Trump administration's choice for the head of the CIA.
LEWANDOSKI: I agree, but Chris, Mike --
CUOMO: We now know that the president's son was corresponding with them during the campaign --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris --
CUOMO: -- and that they were trying --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, Chris --
CUOMO: -- to get him to cooperate with their effort --
LEWANDOSKI: Mike Pompeo --
CUOMO: -- to disseminate hacked information.
LEWANDOSKI: -- was not the director of Central Intelligence in October when this -- when this communication between Don, Jr. and WikiLeaks supposedly occurred.
CUOMO: But he's referring to their actions during the Russian interference. They're obviously related. The fact that he said it after doesn't mean that he wasn't referring to their actions during.
LEWANDOSKI: How? How would an individual --
CUOMO: That's all.
LEWANDOSKI: -- know that Mike Pompeo was going to say that three months later or four months later?
CUOMO: It's irrelevant. This is a rabbit hole. That's not about it and said that's what Pompeo says WikiLeaks represents in this current context. That's all I'm saying.
LEWANDOSKI: And that's fine.
CUOMO: I'm not saying he's clairvoyant, I'm saying that's his opinion. He's the head of the CIA.
So you're saying well, we don't know if WikiLeaks had any -- we don't know. I'm not a cyber expert. That's all nonsense, Corey.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, you can't --
CUOMO: It's all nonsense.
LEWANDOSKI: You can't say that Don, Jr. should have known that WikiLeaks was part of the Russia investigation.
CUOMO: I'm asking you what you think was the right thing for him to do.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, and what I've said very clearly is I don't know because I wasn't part of the campaign at that time and had communications --
CUOMO: So you would have had the same communications? If WikiLeaks had reached out to you --
LEWANDOSKI: No. Look --
CUOMO: -- and said hey, we just leaked these e-mails that we've got hacked from the DNC. Put them out for us.
LEWANDOSKI: Now, Chris --
CUOMO: You do it.
LEWANDOSKI: -- that's not what I said at all. That's not what I said at all.
CUOMO: No, I'm asking you would you have done it.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, you know what I would have done? I probably would have gone to our campaign attorney and said find out if this is real and relevant and if it's something we can do legally. That's what I would have done.
CUOMO: So how come that wasn't done?
LEWANDOSKI: Look, Chris, I don't speak for anybody else. I speak for Corey Lewandowski.
I have no idea what was done. I don't know the context of it but for me to guess --
CUOMO: Why are you so incurious about all of this but when the Clinton campaign does oppo research and hires a former MI6 guy to go do research -- LEWANDOSKI: Because, Chris, in 20 years --
CUOMO: -- and he has Russian contacts you believe it's a smoking gun.
LEWANDOSKI: In 20 years of campaign business -- in 20 years of being involved with campaigns I have never in my life heard of a campaign hiring a spy to do opposition research.
You want to hire an opposition research firm, that happens every day. Never in your life in 50 years of political campaigns have you ever heard of a political campaign hiring a spy.
CUOMO: But how is it relevant to go to a guy --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris --
CUOMO: -- who has intelligence contacts to try to find out if this speculation --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, you've been in the business a long time.
CUOMO: -- about candidate Trump's -- candidate Trump's connections to Russia are true. Why wouldn't you need somebody like that?
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, you and your family have been in the business a long time. Have you or your family ever hired a former spy to do opposition research?
CUOMO: This campaign is of such a different degree than any state campaign --
LEWANDOSKI: State?
CUOMO: -- that the Cuomo family has ever been involved in.
This was talking about Russia and it's about its contacts with Donald Trump and going back decades. It's New York State politics. We're not talking about Russia.
LEWANDOSKI: So what you're saying -- are you saying the Bush campaign, the Obama campaign, the Clinton campaign -- other than Hillary Clinton's campaign are you saying the Bill Clinton campaign, the Barack Obama campaign, the George W. Bush campaign, the Ronald Reagan campaign hired a spy? Of course, not.
CUOMO: I'm saying that opposition research is a dirty, money-driven business --
LEWANDOSKI: It is a fine line, Chris.
CUOMO: -- and you would pay anybody you can to get --
LEWANDOSKI: Not true.
CUOMO: -- any information.
LEWANDOSKI: Not true.
CUOMO: You had your own candidate stand up and ask WikiLeaks to hack Hillary Clinton's e-mails.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, I can tell you this.
CUOMO: You had your own candidate --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris --
CUOMO: -- ask WikiLeaks to hack Hillary Clinton's e-mails.
LEWANDOSKI: So let me answer it. Let me answer this. Chris --
CUOMO: Yes?
LEWANDOSKI: When I was the campaign manager for the Trump presidential campaign we never hired an opposition researcher, ever. Not to do opposition research on our primary opponents and not to do opposition research on Hillary Clinton.
So, Hillary Clinton can't say the same thing. And to the best of my knowledge--
CUOMO: Well, sure she can. She can do it the same way you can because Alexander Nix, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica, when he reached out to Assange he was trying to put together a pro-Trump political action committee and he was asking for some help on some good stuff to put out. It's the same thing that all campaigns do.
LEWANDOSKI: Alexander --
CUOMO: Keep it abused for move (ph).
LEWANDOSKI: Alexander Nix --
CUOMO: It's an attorney who works for a firm and the firm hires so and so. That's what you do to keep your hands clean.
LEWANDOSKI: Alexander Nix is not a former spy, that I'm aware of, OK?
CUOMO: No, but he's reaching out to WikiLeaks for help with this. It's a dirty business, Corey.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, but you said the campaign hired a spy.
CUOMO: So what? Who cares who they hired?
LEWANDOSKI: A secret operative to go to Russia.
CUOMO: They hired somebody to -- they hired an outfit -- they hired an outfit --
LEWANDOSKI: Because that's not what the American political system is.
CUOMO: They hired an outfit, Fusion GPS, that hired a guy who said he could find out information that they thought was relevant, which was about Trump's contacts with Russia.
LEWANDOSKI: The DNC and the Clinton campaign paid a spy -- a professional dark operative.
CUOMO: I know, you keep saying it --
LEWANDOSKI: That's true.
CUOMO: -- but it doesn't mean it matters. It doesn't mean it matters.
LEWANDOSKI: Of course, it matters.
CUOMO: No, why, because the word spy is involved?
LEWANDOSKI: Yes.
CUOMO: No, no, Corey, because this is about what was done, if anything, if at all, to help Russia or Russian state actors or agents thereof to interfere with the election.
LEWANDOSKI: Look, the bottom line is --
CUOMO: That was oppo research.
LEWANDOSKI: -- Hillary Clinton didn't go to Wisconsin, she didn't go to Michigan.
CUOMO: This is -- so what?
LEWANDOSKI: You can -- you can say whatever you want. She ran a terrible campaign.
CUOMO: What, was it Russia behind that, too?
LEWANDOSKI: No. Look, she --
CUOMO: Then why are you bringing it up?
LEWANDOSKI: Because look, you can blame anybody you want for Hillary Clinton's loss, which I know fits the narrative, but the bottom line is she didn't connect with anybody.
CUOMO: Who's bringing up why she lost?
LEWANDOSKI: Well, that's --
CUOMO: I'm talking abbot what Russia did to interfere with this election.
LEWANDOSKI: Right. So do you believe, Chris, that Russia had a material impact on the outcome of this election? Yes or no?
CUOMO: I have no idea --
LEWANDOSKI: Even to lie (ph). CUOMO: -- and the Intelligence Community didn't look into it.
But I'll tell you what, the way you run around from these questions and try to distract to Clinton or distract to Barack Obama doesn't help.
LEWANDOSKI: Chris, we're still talking about the --
CUOMO: And I'll tell you what, it makes me suspicious.
LEWANDOSKI: -- 2016 campaign.
CUOMO: It makes me suspicious.
LEWANDOSKI: We're still talking about the 2016 campaign which is over a year ago.
The only people who bring up Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and the context of the campaign are you and your people. Nobody else does it. You've just been spending a lot of airtime --
LEWANDOSKI: Because you're still talking about an election from a year ago and -- Chris --
CUOMO: -- talking about oppo research by the Clinton campaign as a connection to Russian interference, which is preposterous.
LEWANDOSKI: You know what you're not talking about? You're not talking about the economy, you're not talking about tax cuts, you're not talking about the president's great --
CUOMO: No, I'm not.
LEWANDOSKI: -- trip overseas. You're still talking about something that took place a year ago with no evidence.
CUOMO: No, no, no, no. Sure, we talk about all of it with you. What am I going to talk to you about tax cuts about?
I'm talking to you about this because you were there when it mattered. That's why I'm asking this.
LEWANDOSKI: I wasn't there is the whole point -- is I left in June.
CUOMO: Well, not during the WikiLeaks. Yes, but you were there for plenty of this. You were there when this was in play and meetings were being had, and Carter Page and Papadopoulos were going out and trying to create friendly connections with Russians and get information.
You were on communications. You said you knew nothing about it. Then they showed you your e-mail and now you're recollecting differently.
So you're relevant on that, Corey. That's why they wanted to talk to you. That's why I want to talk to you.
LEWANDOSKI: Of course, and I'll be happy to talk about it but we have to get the facts straight.
CUOMO: Well, you are but your -- well, but you don't want to play with the facts, right? What you want to do is --
LEWANDOSKI: Chris --
CUOMO: -- cherry pick facts and then you want to cast some shade on Hillary Clinton as a distraction. I get like -- I get the tactic --
LEWANDOSKI: But the question is --
CUOMO: -- I just don't know how it's helpful.
LEWANDOSKI: -- did the Russians have an impact on the outcome of this election.
CUOMO: All right, I've got to go.
LEWANDOSKI: The answer is no --
CUOMO: All right.
LEWANDOSKI: -- that we know of.
CUOMO: Let me -- well, we don't know right now.
LEWANDOSKI: Correct.
CUOMO: We have to see what the investigation yields.
I don't want you not to talk about your book. Give me a line on why people should read it.
LEWANDOSKI: It's about let Trump be Trump. It's the greatest rise of an outside candidate in the history of, you know, our country and it talks about -- it's the inside story of how he decided to run for office and took the world and the country by storm.
And it will be -- I think you'll enjoy it, Chris, because I think you get a mention or two in there, too.
CUOMO: Uh, oh. It better be -- it better be accurate.
LEWANDOSKI: You'll Trump it.
CUOMO: I'll pull a Trump on you and I'll sue you, Corey.
LEWANDOSKI: We love it, baby. You're a public figure. I love it.
CUOMO: Corey Lewandowski, thank you for coming on and making the case.
LEWANDOSKI: OK.
CUOMO: Appreciate it.
LEWANDOSKI: Thank you.
