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Rep. James Clyburn (D) South Carolina is Interviewed about Attorney General Barr's Summary of Mueller Report; Department of Justice Announces Effort to Strike Down Affordable Care Act. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired March 26, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Profiles at USC to help Rick Singer get students in through athletic routes. Another was an accountant tied to that sham nonprofit that Singer created in order to allegedly bribe people, coaches and others, to help make this whole scam operate. So that's the people we are talking about here.

We are also learning, Alisyn, it is possible we could get five to 10 more arrests within the next month. We think parents and possibly some students could be coming down the pipe as this scheme continues to be investigated. Alisyn and John?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Brynn.

And good morning.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. I knew it was coming. There it is.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: I did not know it was coming.

BERMAN: And we're back. Good morning. And welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, March 26th, 8:00 in the east.

And breaking overnight, the Justice Department moving to completely strike down Obamacare. The move would affect millions of Americans who rely on the Affordable Care Act for health insurance. It would eliminate, as of now, protections for preexisting conditions, something President Trump has voted to preserve. This is the president just a few months ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will always protect Americans with preexisting conditions. We are going to take care of them.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Also people who have been covered by Medicaid expansion, this morning it is not clear exactly how the president will keep these promises with this administration trying to throw out the entire Affordable Care Act.

CAMEROTA: So President Trump was cleared of collusion, but apparently the sting of the investigation remains. The president has launched a political offensive to attack his critics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are a lot of people out there that have done some very evil things, bad things, I would say treasonous things against our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: The president says releasing the special counsel's full report would not bother him at all. But it apparently bothers Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell who has blocked efforts by Democrats to pass a resolution calling for the full Mueller report to be made public. Democrats in the House set an April 2nd deadline to receive the full report.

BERMAN: Joining me now to talk about this and more, Democratic Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. He is the House Majority Whip, and a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. Congressman, thank you so much for being with us. I want to read you some reporting from our crack Congressional reporter Manu Raju who says that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told her leadership team that her caucus should focus on their agenda and their message and not the Mueller probe and Russia interference. She and her top lieutenants view the matter as a distraction and believe they should focus on pocketbook issues, the sources said. Tell me about this meeting and tell me about that message.

REP. JIM CLYBURN, (D-SC) HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP: First of all, thank you so much for having me. The fact of the matter is that's exactly what we ought to be doing. That's what they did all of last week when I was in my Congressional district. I went from county to county having these discussions, and people are concerned about everyday issues.

And I believe that the Mueller report has been done. That's a chapter that's closed. And I think last night this administration opened a new chapter when it moved to completely invalidate the Affordable Care Act. And that to me is the number one thing on people's minds. People are worried, especially in my part of the country, about children being born with diabetes and how they are going to get health care. People are worried about themselves. Prostate cancer, which is prevalent in the low country of South Carolina. And breast cancer, how are they going to get medical treatment that they need? And so for this administration to open the chapter, I think that we have got to reconnect our conversations with the American people.

BERMAN: OK, before we go to the chapter that you say was opened overnight, you did say that the Mueller report, that is a chapter that is closed. What does that mean in your opinion -- what does that mean in your opinion for hearings that Judiciary Chair Jerry Nadler might have, that Oversight Chair Elijah Cummings might have, that Intelligence Chair Adam Schiff might have going forward? Do you think they should start to turn their focus elsewhere?

CLYBURN: No. Not them. They have oversight. Judiciary committee's got oversight, and Elijah Cummings of government operations, they've got oversight. Those of us dealing with the everyday issues of the American people, we are going to have a press conference today talking about the Affordable Care Act. And so we can do more than one thing at a time up here. That's why we have all the different committees.

BERMAN: But is it a mistake, in your mind, for those Democrats -- and there still are some -- who say impeachment is still a possibility, they want to see focus on that? You would prefer that to be a closed chapter?

[08:05:08] CLYBURN: No. That is a chapter further down the road. We are going through this book chapter by chapter. And maybe that's chapter five or six. But let's go to chapter two and three at this point. And that is chapter two, committees doing their work, chapter three, let's get to work on the Affordable Care Act. And I'm hopeful that we can soon start looking at an infrastructure bill, which is huge in most of the congressional districts. What are we going to do about broadening our discussions about infrastructure? Everybody is talking about roads and bridges. Nobody is talking about water and sewage. Nobody is talking about broadband deployment. And this to me is where our focus ought to be, trying to make people's lives better.

BERMAN: I will say this book is complicated and I hope some of these chapters have pictures to help people like me get through it. Are there areas where you would be willing to work with the president to pass bills on infrastructure, on health care, for instance? People always talk about improving Obamacare. Is that something you want to work on with the president, maybe drug pricing?

CLYBURN: Absolutely. That's exactly what the press conference we are having today is about. We have always been willing to reach out to this administration on these issues. The fact of the matter is when I see children in my congressional district being loaded in automobiles going down to the parking lot of the local library that closes at 5:00. They are there at 6:00 and 7:00 trying to get connected to the Internet because they don't have it in their homes. That is what we ought to focus on. There is something wrong with that.

I just heard from Sanford Bishop how his football team after practice goes to the McDonald's so they can hook up to the Internet. This is what we ought to be doing, making people's lives better.

BERMAN: Let me ask you, though, as we close here about this past chapter, because a lot of Democrats did say a lot of things about the investigation into Russia and the Trump campaign's alleged connections to it. You did an interview with "Buzzfeed." I just want to play you a little sound from that. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be very blunt, do you think Putin has something over on Trump? And what is it?

JIM CLYBURN, (D-SC) HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP: Yes, I really think that. I have been thinking that for a long time. Whenever you see smoke, you need to investigate to see whether or not there is a fire causing it, how big the fire is, whether or not we're going to put it out or let it burn. There is a lot of smoke here. And when you see this much smoke there is fire somewhere. And we've got to put it out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So as you sit here today reading the Barr version or summary of the Mueller report, were you wrong to say there was fire?

CLYBURN: Well, we have still not seen the report. I said, I don't know how much fire is there. The question is obstruction of justice is still on the table, and that is something these committees will get into. I know. I saw Jerry Nadler over the weekend. They're going to get into that. Elijah Cummings and others, they will get into it. But that's not what I ought to be doing. That's not what the bulk of our caucus ought to be doing. Let them go and see what's smoldering there while the rest of us try to go about doing what is best for the American people.

BERMAN: Congressman James Clyburn from South Carolina, always a pleasure to have you on with us. Thanks so much for joining us on NEW DAY.

CLYBURN: Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: And joining us now is our dear friend Jake Tapper.

BERMAN: Look who's here.

CAMEROTA: Look who's here. Look who's surprising us.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: How are you? Just popped in.

CAMEROTA: He's our CNN chief Washington correspondent and anchor of THE LEAD of course, but you knew that. Hi.

TAPPER: Hi, how are you?

CAMEROTA: I'm doing well. How are you? We are looking very forward to talking to you and your daughter.

BERMAN: We just have you to get to your daughter.

CAMEROTA: That's exactly right.

OK, so you hear James Clyburn there. Was this not a master stroke from Attorney General Bill Barr to take the wind out of the sails of Democrats before we even have had the Mueller report. We don't know if it's 50 pages, we don't know if it's 500 pages. It may be filled with lots of incriminating stuff. Who knows? But Bill Barr circumnavigated all of that and released what he said are the conclusions. And you can hear, I think, Democrats today sort of a little bit adrift as to what their directions should be now.

TAPPER: Democrats are definitely in two camps. One camp says it is really still focused on the Mueller report, wants to see it, is talking about how the status and the requirements of what's prosecutable is different than what you would get from a counterintelligence investigation, and they want to see it. They are focused on that.

And then there are the others, Nancy Pelosi, Congressman, Whip Clyburn, and others who want to talk about other subjects who think that this ship has sailed and seem to be ready to turn the page.

BERMAN: He said chapter closed.

[08:10:00] TAPPER: He did. He did. And that would be news to plenty of other members of the House who don't see it. You mentioned a bunch of them, Nadler, Schiff, Cummings. But there are a bunch of other Democrats who want to keep focus on it and are not convinced by Barr's memo. He gave the bottom line up front, as they call it in the military, the bluff. And the idea that the bottom line up front is no collusion proven and no conclusion on obstruction of justice. And one presumes that that's actually what the report says.

CAMEROTA: I suppose, but there could be all sorts of embarrassing things in there for the Trump team.

TAPPER: That doesn't preclude it at all.

For instance, let's take the Trump Tower meeting. The Trump Tower meeting is a huge scandal, and the White House, led by the president, lied about it. As far as we know, based on the facts on the table, there wasn't a crime committed. But it is an individual billed as a Russian lawyer promising dirt on Hillary Clinton, and Donald Trump Jr. says if it's what you say I love it, et cetera. It's an ugly story. Again, not a crime. So if that story is in the report, which one presumes it is, again, it doesn't rise to the level of a crime of conspiracy or collusion. But it is not a good story for the administration.

CAMEROTA: Do you sense that the Democrats have their wings clipped in terms of other investigations, like the emoluments clause and whether or not the president is enriching himself through his office, the security clearances of Jared, et cetera, et cetera. Do you think that this has a ripple effect on those investigations?

TAPPER: It feels like it now, but I doubt it long term. Right now, everyone is still reeling from the fact that this big story -- and we heard a lot of people, John Brennan, perhaps most notoriously, one presumed that the former head of the CIA knew a lot of stuff that he wasn't saying, accusing the president of treason. And then it comes out that that's not true. And we hear a lot of people saying things that were not true. So there is the wind out of the sails of a lot of those Democrats and

a lot of those resistance Democrats. By the same token it is also true that it's still an ugly story for the administration. It's still -- if the best we can do in this country is there is no prosecutable evidence of conspiracy with a foreign power, then we are setting the bar pretty low.

BERMAN: And it may very well be that the four pages that Barr wrote was the best interpretation for the president. Not saying it's not true, but saying that he put out what could be the best possible case for the president now. What comes out later, who knows? And we're going to have to see on that.

I will say this, that if you were Nancy Pelosi and James Clyburn and you wanted to move on to a new subject area, to wake up to the news that the Department of Justice and the Trump investigation has taken legal action to strike down all of Obamacare, I would imagine the Democrats see that as an opportunity.

TAPPER: It's so bizarre to me because it does seem like a political gift to Democrats because Obamacare is testing and polling much more favorably than it was three or four years ago. The president has said he wants to keep protections for people for preexisting conditions. This would take that away. There's all these people, millions of people whose health insurance and access to care is now up in the air. Why the Trump administration would want to change the subject to that, which is a much more favorable terrain theoretically on a political level is bizarre.

In addition, I don't know what the plan is. Is there a, we want to get rid of this and then we're going to replace it with that? We don't know what the that is.

BERMAN: There is no there there. There is only repeal right now, there's no replace yet, at least that they told us about.

TAPPER: It's also interesting because the president loves to complain about the liberal ninth circuit and how the judges in San Francisco, that Democrats like to court shop and they go there because they'll get a favorable ruling. And now he's in Texas doing the exact same thing, except it's a conservative court.

CAMEROTA: But 52 million people have preexisting conditions. I would assume some of those are President Trump's base. So how is this politically astute at all? This is a nonpartisan issue, health care. So how does it politically make any sense to try to take health insurance away from --

TAPPER: I don't see any sense in it at all. I don't understand why they would do this. It seems like there are so many other area where the administration could focus attention this week having to do with the positive economic numbers, having to do with the trade fights that the president is waging, things that are much more favorable terrain for him, put the Democrats much more on the defensive. But instead he's focusing on this. It seems odd to me. I don't truly understand it. BERMAN: Jake Tapper, stick around. He's much more charming in

person.

CAMEROTA: Isn't he?

TAPPER: I'm bad on air?

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Just interpret it as you will.

TAPPER: Not good.

BERMAN: You're more charming in person. Great to have you here.

TAPPER: Not good on TV.

BERMAN: Stick around. We're going to talk to you again in a second.

TAPPER: You're going to need a charming Tapper in a second.

BERMAN: I keep on hearing there is one.

TAPPER: There is one.

BERMAN: Voters in the heartland sounding off about the Mueller investigation.

[08:15:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the Democrats were smart, they would start working with President Trump instead of trying to overturn the results of the election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, what will the 2020 candidates do? We will discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: It's not only President Trump who feels vindicated from Robert Mueller's report. Some of his supporters in the nation's heartland do as well.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is live in Harrison Township, Michigan, where he spoke to voters about the Russia investigation.

Tell us everything, Miguel.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the all-important Macomb County, Alisyn. Republicans here are emboldened, but even some Democrats saying perhaps it is time to move on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ (voice-over): In the heartland, conclusions of the Mueller report so far favor the president and his catch phrases are winning.

BRIAN PANNEBECKER, MICHIGAN VOTER: I make of it exactly what Donald Trump said it was. It was fake news. It was a witch hunt. It was a hoax all along.

As a matter of fact, I think they need to investigate the people that funded the fake dossier, because they're the real criminals in this.

MARQUEZ: Ford auto worker, Brian Pannebecker, is a huge Trump fan. He helped elect the presidents in this vote-rich county and says the report's filings gives the president a lift.

PANNEBECKER: If the Democrats were smart, they would start working with President Trump instead of trying to overturn the results of the election.

[08:20:04] MARQUEZ (on camera): And in your mind, if they do, they're only going to make him stronger in places like Macomb.

PANNEBECKER: Absolutely, because the guy didn't do anything wrong.

MARQUEZ (voice-over): Michigan and Macomb County are critical to the president's re-election. In 2016, he won the state by just 10,704 votes. Macomb County and suburban Detroit voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. It flipped for Trump big time. He won the county by more than 48,000 votes.

Even Democrats here say the report's findings won't help them win back Macomb County and the state.

HENRY YANEZ, STERLING HEIGHTS CITY COUNCIL: It was surprising that more wasn't revealed in this report.

MARQUEZ: Yanez, who has run for and held several political offices says his fellow Democrats need to investigate less and focus on policy.

YANEZ: I think Democrats really just need to work -- roll up their sleeves and get to work on issues important to the citizens of my city and my state.

MARQUEZ: There is hope for Democrats here. The midterms saw them rebound slightly. The county narrowly back, winning Democratic candidates in the Senate and governor's races.

JOHN SKANTZE, MICHIGAN VOTER: I was excited.

MARQUEZ: John Skantze, who retired from management in the auto industry, considers himself a moderate Republican. He voted for the president, but could be persuaded to support Joe Biden in 2020.

(on camera): Do you think that Mueller report and the summary helps the president?

SKANTZE: I think it helped him a lot. I think it helped him a lot. And it got rid of a big stigma with his following. (END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now there is one thing we discovered that both Democrats and Republicans agree on. There is one candidate out there for 2020 that's a long way away. There is one candidate that causes worry on the Republican side or causes hope on the Democratic side, a guy who hasn't even announced yet. Joe Biden seems to be very popular in places like Macomb County.

Back to you, guys.

BERMAN: All right. That's interesting. Miguel Marquez for us out in Michigan, appreciate it.

So what will the Democratic candidates for president do about all this?

Joining us now, Josh Green, national correspondent for "Bloomberg Businessweek and a CNN political analyst, and Jonathan Martin, national political correspondent for the "New York Times" and a CNN political analyst who is with us in person today.

CAMEROTA: Yes. So, there's Josh (ph).

BERMAN: So, Josh, you have to wait a second.

Jonathan, you know, it's very interesting, because the Democratic presidential candidates actually seem to have already decided how they are going to handle or were going to handle by and large the Russia investigation, which is I haven't heard much from them about it at all.

JONATHAN MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If you follow the weeks leading up to the Mueller report, this wouldn't surprise you that they would be focused on driving the message on basically economic fairness. It's been the core issue of most of the campaigns.

Yes, contrasting themselves with President Trump. Yes, referring to alleged corruption on the part of his administration. But this idea that somehow Russia or the Mueller probe was central to their campaigns is just not true. It was definitely more of a Washington conversation.

I think there was some kind of liberal fantasy, to be honest that Santa Claus Mueller would come down the chimney with a package full of indictments. Even in the midterms last year, you rarely heard about it on the campaign trails. It was much more about, you know, integrity and policy like health care.

CAMEROTA: But, Josh, this, of course, isn't a surprise. All politics is local if you believe that adage. So the Mueller investigation is Russia. That's as far as from local as you can possibly get. So, people are focused on their own health care, their own paychecks, their own jobs in their own backyard.

JOSHUA GREEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No, I don't think we should at all. I mean, any candidate who spent time on the campaign trail in the midterms and in the early presidential primary states as I wrote my piece will tell you this is not a top of mind concern. Russia and Mueller are not a top of mind concern for ordinary voters. I think that's a reason why the Mueller report is disappointing as it was to a certain class of Democrats who is, as Jonathan mentioned were hoping for a Santa Claus basket full of indictments.

As disappointing as it was for them, I think it's actually may be good for Democrats. Had Mueller's report gone a little bit further or caused Democrats to feel obligated to try and impeach President Trump, that would have eclipsed every other issue for the next two years and including would have overshadowed the Democratic primary race. I think it would have divided the Democratic Party.

I think now with impeachment unlikely, the focus in 2020 instead is going to be on issues like health care, like education and like the fact that Obama's Justice Department just came out and said it wants to obliterate Obamacare.

[08:25:03] These are issues Democratic voters I have spoken to are talking about.

BERMAN: I just want to show you how little of a concern it is among primary voters here. Actually, this is all voters. CNN in a recent poll asked voters an open-ended question for the most important issues for your 2020 vote. They can list multiple answers if they wanted. Exactly zero people, Jonathan.

MARTIN: Yes, right.

BERMAN: Not zero percent.

CAMEROTA: Is that low?

BERMAN: Zero human beings listed Russia as their top issue. They could choose multiple issues here. That's almost statistically impossible.

MARTIN: The margin of error is zero. Exactly.

It's not surprising. I think Josh is right. I think, privately, there was some kind of relief from Democratic strategists. What they would say is now maybe some of the more hard-core activists won't push impeachment. Hopefully, some of the younger, more progressive members of Congress will let it go or temper demands for impeachment.

And the reason they are excited is impeachment is something a majority of the country doesn't want. And that important but small slice of voters in the middle certainly doesn't want to pursue impeachment. And they are more sympathetic to Democrats on most policy issues.

You know, if you think about ten years ago when there was a similar sort of investigation into bush, Nancy Pelosi at the time always said let's beat him, not impeach him. It's a similar moment now. They want to beat him at the ballot box, not pursue impeachment against him for a couple of reasons. First of all, they think it is a legit way to confront him and a unifying way that will win the middle of the country that doesn't want to pursuing taking the president out of the White House.

CAMEROTA: So, maybe this was a gift from Santa Claus, Josh, as you pointed out, I mean, for Democrats who have wanted to move on. To be clear, it's not as though the Democratic heads of the committees thought it was a winner to always have to talk about Russia and to have to talk about all of these kind of byzantine connections between, you know, that everybody in the Trump orbit and Russia. It was that they were tasked with it.

I mean, they had oversight responsibilities. They had to do it. Maybe they'll work their way around to feeling relieved about this.

GREEN: I think privately, many of them are. I mean, the issue with impeachment always is it was going to divide the Democratic Party. It will be much easier now for Democrats as a party for the eventual nominee to unify around a set of issues that bring the party together, you know, whether it is protecting Obamacare, whether that's something on jobs and the economy. Now, you have a presidential campaign to be run on issues in the context of a slowing economy, a president who is under water in his approval ratings, may get a bump from the Mueller report.

But long term, Trump has been under water including in states like Michigan that we just featured, they're probably going to decide the outcome of the 2020 election. So, this is by no means bad news for Democrats.

MARTIN: And just real fast, it's the president's conduct and temperament that voters don't like.

GREEN: Exactly.

MARTIN: It wasn't the question that he was some kind of a stooge to Vladimir Putin that drove voters in the midterm. It was unease with his tweets, with his constant, you know, incendiary attacks. That's what makes voters in the middle uneasy about it. Not some sort of conspiracy theory. It is hard to see that change.

BERMAN: Tone and corruption is something that voters always seems to see as a separate issue here. It'd be interesting to see if there's any impact on the Mueller investigation on that.

Jonathan Martin, great to have you in person.

MARTIN: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: Maybe you will actually come see us.

All right. A quick programming note. CNN will host a presidential town hall hosted by Don Lemon. That is tomorrow night at 10:00 p.m.

CAMEROTA: OK, an 11-year-old author is trying to inspire other young girls to speak up. You will recognize her name. And she's going to share her story, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)