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Giuliani Attacks Daniels; Arizona Officers Beat Unarmed Man; Eagles Player Focuses on Issues. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired June 07, 2018 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Of Ivanka Trump holding one of her children as Bee took on the Trump administration for separating immigrant children from their parents. Bee now says this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAMANTHA BEE: If you are worried about the death of civility, don't sweat it. I'm a comedian. People who hone their voices in basement bars while yelling back at drunk hecklers are definitely not paragons of civility. I am. I'm really sorry that I said that word. But, you know what, civility is just nice words. Maybe we should all worry a little bit more about the niceness of our actions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Samantha Bee's show airs on TBS, which, like CNN, is owned by Turner, which is a division of Time Warner.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Rudy Giuliani says he values certain women over others. And Stormy Daniels, he says, has no credibility because of her line of work. Just a few of the things the former mayor said. A lot to discuss there. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:35:02] CAMEROTA: President Trump's lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, making new controversial comments, this time about adult film star Stormy Daniels. Daniels says she had an affair with the president, as you know. The president denies that. So at this conference in Israel, Giuliani said that Daniels has no credibility because of her line of work.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S LAWYER: So, Stormy, you want to bring a case, let me cross examine you, because the business you are in entitles you to no degree of giving your credibility any -- any weight. And, secondly, it's funny to me how she could be damaged. She has no reputation. If you're going to sell your body for money, you just don't have a reputation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Joining us now to discuss, our CNN political analyst Kirsten Powers, and CNN chief political correspondent Dana Bash.
Kirsten, your reaction to Giuliani?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, I think this is unfortunately the way people used to talk about women who, you know, either were prostitutes, or were, you know, like Stormy Daniels, an adult film star, where it used to be, I guess, you know, it wasn't something that people used to say that -- say that they said they were raped or something. Someone would say, well, how could you be raped because you sell your body. It's so antiquated and outdated. It was unacceptable then. It's unacceptable now. And I feel like when I watch Rudy Giuliani doing this, it's just sort of -- it's like he's this dinosaur, you know, rearing its head and saying these things that are so out of step with where we are today.
And we -- I feel like we sort of saw similar comments with Bill Clinton, also whose another very entitled man who is still sort of trapped in the past. The difference, of course, is that Bill Clinton has now apologized for the things that he's said. I don't expect Rudy Giuliani will be apologizing for this.
BERMAN: Oh, no, not at all.
POWERS: Right.
BERMAN: I can't imagine he will because he said even more on that stage that I really do think give you a window into exactly what he thinks. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: (INAUDIBLE) when you look at Stormy Daniels, I know Donald Trump and look at his --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's respect (ph) him (ph).
GIULIANI: Look at his three wives, all right, beautiful women, classy women, women of great substance. Stormy Daniels?
So, I think she gets (ph) that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to respect on this stage everyone (ph).
GIULIANI: Yes, I respect porn stars. Don't you respect porn stars? Or do you think that porn stars --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I respect --
GIULIANI: Desecrate women? Do you think that porn stars don't respect women and therefore sell their bodies?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: You know, Kirsten, Rudy Giuliani's got a glass houses issue here though.
POWERS: Yes. Yes.
BERMAN: If he's going to appoint himself the morals police there, that's some pretty shaky ground.
POWERS: Well, he -- he and the person that he represents both have some pretty serious issues. And so for somebody like Rudy Giuliani, who famously, you know, openly cheated on his wife and then she found out that she was getting divorced in a press conference just doesn't really seem like he's in a -- in the position to be the moral arbiter of anything.
But, really, nobody should be doing this. That's the point.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.
POWER: It's just the way he's talking about her, you know, what reputation does she have or how could she be damaged is, you know, she's a person and if she -- and if -- if Stormy Daniels doesn't have integrity, he can make that case. But he -- it -- that -- her job is not proof of that. That's the point.
BASH: And you -- and you heard somebody off to the side saying on the stage, we respect women.
POWERS: Yes.
BASH: And that really is at -- at its core what this is about. This is about, you know, do they have any modicum of respect for people who, you know, might not have the kind of typical line of work, but, look, she's not a prostitute. And even if she were, she would deserve more respect in terms of the fact, as you said, Kirsten, that she is a person and just -- separate what she does for a living, she still has a right to argue right and wrong.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Of course. I mean --
BASH: And when she is wronged.
POWERS: Right.
CAMEROTA: I think that Rudy Giuliani's not alone. I'm sure that many people feel the way Rudy Giuliani does. But the difference is that he's the president's lawyer. And when he talks about credibility, I'm just curious, when he says that porn stars -- female porn stars desecrate women, I'm just curious, Kirsten, how he feels about men who have sex with porn stars --
POWERS: Right.
CAMEROTA: Sorry, married men. Married men who have sex with porn stars without using protection. Do they have credibility?
POWERS: Right. Yes. So what they would say is that, you know, Donald Trump never did that, right? That's their response to that.
But, look, this is something that we see all the time with the way that women are the ones that are demonized and the men who go to prostitutes or look at pornography. I mean look at -- Donald Trump proudly, you know, hung out at the Playboy mansion. And -- and so it's --
[06:40:03] CAMEROTA: Oh, there's more.
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: I mean, just to be clear, in terms of -- any time you have to -- by defending somebody you have to start with the sentence, just look at his three wives --
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: You know, when you say that Rudy Giuliani publicly humiliated his wife by publicly cheating on her --
POWERS: Yes.
CAMEROTA: Let's not forget 1988 and 1989.
POWERS: Right.
CAMEROTA: Anybody who was around New York, the front pages of "The New York Post" where --
POWERS: Right, (INAUDIBLE) --
CAMEROTA: Then Donald Trump seemed to be enjoying the public spectacle of cheating on Ivana with Marla Maples.
POWERS: Right.
BERMAN: I will also say, in the broad category of desecrating women, bragging about grabbing women, you know, by their genitals --
CAMEROTA: And there's that.
BERMAN: May fall into that category.
CAMEROTA: Yes. Right.
BASH: Yes.
BERMAN: The multiple accusations of sexual misconduct might fall into that category as well.
Look, you know, Rudy was asked, among other things, about what Melania makes of all this. He commented on that as well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI; I can't speak for Melania, except that --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you're -- you're personal friend. GIULIANI: I am. And I -- she believes in her husband. She knows it's
not true. I don't even think there's a slight suspicion that it's true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: I'm not going to speak for Melania, Dana Bash, but then he goes on to speak for Melania.
BASH: Yes, I mean --
BERMAN: Clearly Rudy Giuliani understands a lot more about women than I think (INAUDIBLE).
BASH: It seems to be. Maybe you should get some tips from him, John Berman, I don't know.
But, look, I think, at the end of the day, we have to remember that Melania, according to James Comey, Melania -- excuse me, the president said to him, can you at least tell Melania that what was in the dossier, allegations of things that he did, allegations of things that he did with prostitutes in Russia were not true. Can you at least tell my wife that?
I'm guessing that somebody who has a wife who believes him wouldn't be so worried to the point that they break protocol and ask the FBI director to tell his wife.
CAMEROTA: Yes, you know, and one more thing, Kirsten, we have to go, but I -- when Melania has spoken for herself, and I'm remembering an interview I think with Greta van Sustren right around the election, where Melania said, my husband is a grown-up. He makes his own decisions. And that, I think, telegraphed, I know who this man is.
BASH: Yes.
CAMEROTA: He makes his own decisions for what he does.
BASH: Exactly.
CAMEROTA: But, anyway, we have to go. Hold that thought, Kirsten.
BERMAN: Thanks, Kirsten.
CAMEROTA: Yes, thanks so much. We'll have, I'm sure, ample future opportunity to talk about all of this.
Thank you, ladies.
OK, meanwhile, this story.
Arizona police officers have been captured on video beating this unarmed man who was minding his own business at the moment. So what is behind this and what's their department saying about them?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:46:226] BERMAN: Four Mesa, Arizona, police officers are on paid administrative leave after surveillance video captured them beating an unarmed man. On Wednesday, police released additional body cam footage of this incident.
Our Nick Watt has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Robert Johnson, leaning against that wall, says he was just tagging along with his buddy, who was trying to gather belongings from an ex-girlfriend. So, how did it go from talking on his phone to this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down, bro.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) down. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
WATT: Multiple punches and knees, according to cops, because he refuses an order to sit down. Officers had patted him down moments before. They knew he was unarmed before hitting him over and over.
BENJAMIN TAYLOR, ROBERT JOHNSON'S ATTORNEY: But they kept on and they kept on and they kept on and they kept on assaulting him and they didn't stop until he was knocked out.
CHIEF RAMON BATISTA, MESA POLICE DEPARTMENT: The level of force is troubling. Then they approach him. They try to force him down. And when he resists that, that -- that tension, the officers strike him several times and -- to get him to comply.
WATT: The local officers union, the Mesa Police Association, tells CNN that Johnson was not compliant and physically resisted what we feel was a lawful detention.
TAYLOR: They hog tie him. They drag him to the elevator door.
WATT: Johnson, with no criminal record we could find, wasn't actually a suspect in this operation. The suspect was his friend, there on the ground, Eric Reyes (ph). His ex-girlfriend had called 911 after Reyes allegedly tried to break into her apartment. He was charged with disorderly conduct and possession of drug paraphernalia. CNN was unable to reach him for comment.
Johnson was charged with disorderly conduct and hindering a prosecution. He pleaded not guilty.
TAYLOR: And the reason why they did that, to justify their actions for beating him up. WATT: Police released the officer's body cam video, but the incident
happened on May 23rd. The investigation only began May 30th when an alarmed citizen brought the security camera video from the apartment complex to the chief, who has now changed policy regarding punches to the head and face.
BATISTA: Hence forth, any strikes are only authorized in situations where a persons is actively fighting with us, actively taking a swing at us.
WATT: The three unnamed officers who struck Johnson, and a sergeant, are now on paid leave. The chief, who heard the audio on the body cam --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need a supervisor (ph).
WATT: Said this.
BATISTA: Certainly, at first glance, this looks like a mistake. And it doesn't look right. And it's my job, it's our job, to collectively investigate and find the answers to this.
WATT: Johnson's lawyer wants these officers charged and plans to sue.
TAYLOR: He's physically hurt. He's emotionally hurt. And this is going to affect him for the rest of his life.
WATT: Nick Watt, CNN, Mesa, Arizona.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA: OK, we have more to explore with this story. Why, with all of the negative attention on police officers who use excessive force, does this keep happening? Michael Eric Dyson has thoughts, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:53:42] BERMAN: Moments ago we told you about four Mesa, Arizona, officers on paid leave after surveillance video captured them beating an unarmed man. This is not the first controversy for this police department. And the timing of this is particularly interesting and poignant.
Joining us, Michael Eric Dyson, author of "What Truth Sounds Like: Robert F. Kennedy, James Baldwin and Our Unfinished Conversation about Race in America."
And what strikes me about this is, this is the discussion that many people in the Philadelphia Eagles, just to name a few, want to be having right now, to look at this and say, hey, you can't ignore this. Pay attention to this. Malcolm Jenkins yesterday on the Eagles actually held up a sign that said, you aren't listening. And this is happening in Mesa, Arizona.
MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, AUTHOR, "WHAT TRUTH SOUNDS LIKE": Right. Absolutely right. And that's a very sharp contrast you draw and an appropriate one here.
It is not about the flag. It is not about the anthem. It is not about disrespect for America. As Malcolm Jenkins said, we are true patriots. We believe in the beauty and the power of America, the idea that continues to lure us forward to build our nation to the best that it can become. But in the meantime, he is using his platform, his privilege, and his celebrity to focus an issue that the president of the United States should be focusing on and all good Americans -- good American of conscience should be focusing on here.
[06:55:10] And this proves again that despite all of the brouhaha, despite the noise, despite the news about this particular kind of incident being replayed again and again, it is not a deterrent to police people in Mesa who you would think, given the atmosphere, given the temperature that has been raised up, given the discourse that has been ratcheted up, we would be calm, we would be respectful of the fact that there's probably a security camera somewhere recording our particular behavior, and it does not discourage it.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
DYSON: That's why it's necessary to bring the power of celebrity to leverage what Malcolm Jenkins and his colleagues, Chris Long and many others do to make sure that this issue, as Colin Kaepernick insisted, is the primary issue about which these players are taking a knee or raising other forms of protest.
And, by the way, not only doing it symbolically. Malcolm Jenkins has been involved in serious negotiations behind the scenes to get public policy changed in light of the need for criminal justice reform.
CAMEROTA: I'm so glad you brought that up, Michael.
But, listen, just to drill down on that point, how do you explain, with the proliferation of security cameras, with the proliferation of cell phone cameras, why that isn't a deterrent? All of the negative attention, all of the awareness, all of the national media talking about police excessive force, they know that, at times, police officers get convicted for this stuff. Why isn't that changing what police officers do when they see a guy leaning against a wall minding his own business?
DYSON: Well, when you think about the (INAUDIBLE) power -- (INAUDIBLE) power corrupts -- power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely, well, they don't have absolute power, but they do have a level of, if you will, exoneration in advance. They have the belief and the knowledge that, for the most part, police people are, a, not even brought to bear before the bar of justice and, b, when they are, in those rare cases, they are rarely charged and then convicted.
And so given that record, you would think that, OK, that's a deterrent to a degree. It's not. Because what they understand is the likely case is a local prosecutor will not bring them to bear, will not bring them to justice, will not even convict them, will not see things the same way that others in the communities see it. And, as a result of that, they have a kind of impunity that is rather dangerous, because if the police people who are meant to uphold the law are constantly and egregiously offending the law and they are not held to account, they are the judge and jury on the spot. Whatever behavior they engage in is the exact judge -- is the behavior that they think is justified as a result of them possessing the law.
And let's be real here, we have a president of the United States of America who believes he's above the law. He's setting the tone as well for those who believe my actions by themselves define what is lawful. And, as a result of that, no other objective metric that can determine whether I am offending the law or not can be brought to bear against me. That's a dangerous thing in this country. It was already bad --
BERMAN: Well --
DYSON: Even prior to Mr. Trump's election --
BERMAN: These questions -- these questions about law enforcement, obviously, though --
DYSON: Let's be honest, the belief that that will come --
BERMAN: Yes, he questions about law enforcement, though --
DYSON: I'm sorry.
BERMAN: The questions about law enforcement in this specific issue, obviously, have been around since before President Trump took office. How he's choosing to address it --
DYSON: Oh, that's why I -- yes, of course.
BERMAN: You know, is an open question.
DYSON: But he -- wait a minute. But here's the thing. When we talk about rappers and violence, they didn't invent violence, but we talk about them glorifying it. We have a president who glorifies lawlessness. We have a president who glorifies the fact that he can define for himself, I can pardon myself. Here's a man who believes that his very body, his very idea, his very mind contains the definition of what is lawful. And I'm saying to you, that glorifies, or at least exacerbates a situation on the ground with police people in situations where they determine what is the judgment to be meted out and they do it immediately as judge, jury and executioner. And that is a dangerous thing.
That's why we need serious criminal justice reform and that's why need a Colin Kaepernick, a Michael Jenkins, a Michael Bennett, an Eric Reid, a Chris Long to stand up and stand out against this. And I hope Roger Goodell, in the offices of the National Football League, is looking at this and to rethink his own action in fining and punishing players who would date stand up and express -- or kneel and express their beliefs that this country is a country of laws and we should abide by those and we should protest injustice whenever we find it.
BERMAN: Michael Eric Dyson, thanks so much for being with us.
Notable, the AP reporting only two Eagles were actually going to go to the White House.
CAMEROTA: Is that right?
BERMAN: Two. Two.
CAMEROTA: That's different than the number that we had originally heard.
All right, thanks so much to our international viewers for watching. For you, CNN "TALK" is next. For our U.S. viewers, NEW DAY continues right now.
[07:00:02] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The United States and Canada will remain firm friends, whatever short term disagreements may occur.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seriously? Do you really believe that your NATO allies represent a national security threat to you?
