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Trump Slams Allies, Singles Out Germany to Start NATO Summit. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 11, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

[05:59:14] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Wednesday, July 11, 6 a.m. here in New York. And what a beginning to this day.

The breaking news unfolding before our eyes this morning. President Trump testing the limits of the most important alliance on earth, if not stepping past those limits. An absolutely blistering open to meetings with NATO leaders in Brussels. In the very first photo opportunity of the summit, the president demanded that NATO members spend more on defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States is paying far too much, and other countries are not paying enough. It's disproportionate and not fair to the taxpayers of the United States, and we're going to make it fair.

I think that these countries have to step it up, not over a ten-year period. They have to step it up immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, European leaders, they were braced for tough talk from the president, but the speed and the tone of this, it exceeds even their most anxious expectations, especially the rhetoric toward Germany.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So they were sitting at that table that you just saw with the cameras rolling, and the president accused Germany of being, quote, "held captive," end quote, by Russia because of a German-Russian energy deal. And this set off an unusual, tense exchange for the whole world to watch.

NATO, of course, has been one of the most important guards against Soviet expansion, communism and terrorism. And the intel community says this is exactly the kind of discord that Vladimir Putin wants.

But what about President Trump's position? Does he have a point? This is just the beginning of the president's European trip. He will be face to face with Germany's leader, Angela Merkel, and other European leaders very shortly. So of course, we will bring you that live.

But let's begin our coverage with Kaitlan Collins. She joins us live from the NATO summit in Brussels. Off to a rocky start, Kaitlan.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's a good way to put it, Alisyn. President Trump came out swinging this morning. And I should note that he hasn't even arrived at the NATO headquarters yet. That was just at the breakfast this morning when the president sat down, only minutes into his first event here in Brussels, when he started airing his complaints about defense spending in NATO, singling out Germany and proving every European leader's worst fear is coming true, that this is going to be a very hostile summit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that these countries have to step it up, not over a ten-year period. They have to step it up immediately.

COLLINS (voice-over): President Trump blasting America's top allies over defense spending at a breakfast kicking off this week's crucial NATO summit.

TRUMP: No other president brought it up like I bring it up. So something has to be done.

COLLINS: The president directing the brunt of his criticism at Germany, complaining that the U.S. is expected to defend Europe from Russia, despite Germany paying Russia billions for energy.

TRUMP: Germany is totally controlled by Russia, because they were getting between 60 to 70 percent of their energy from Russia in a new pipeline. And you tell me if that's appropriate, because I think it's not. Germany, as far as I'm concerned, is captive to Russia.

COLLINS: Germany's defense minister addressing criticism of their defense spending to CNN last night.

URSULA VON DER LEYEN, GERMAN DEFENSE MINISTER: This is a pipeline. This economic project started, I think, back in 2002 or '03, so way before Russia changed -- changed its behavior.

COLLINS: The head of NATO acknowledging that allies are starting to contribute more.

JENS STOLTENBERG, SECRETARY-GENERAL, NATO: Last year was the biggest increase in defense spending across Europe and Canada (ph) in a generation.

TRUMP: Why was that last year?

STOLTENBERG: It's also because of your leadership, and because of your message (ph).

COLLINS: But stressing to President Trump the importance of the alliance. STOLTENBERG: The strength of NATO is that, despite these differences,

we have always been able to unite around our core cause, to protect and defend each other, because we understand that we are stronger together.

COLLINS: The heated start to the summit coming after one senior European official told CNN that NATO members are preparing for the worst-case scenario, many leaders expressing fear that President Trump will follow through on the threat to pull U.S. military protection for countries who don't reach the 2 percent defense spending target, a goal they're supposed to hit by 2024.

DONALD TUSK, EUROPEAN COUNCIL PRESIDENT: America, appreciate your allies. After all, you don't have that many.

COLLINS: Ahead of a trip to the U.K. later this week and his first official summit with Vladimir Putin, President Trump also talking aim at British Prime Minister Theresa May over the ongoing revolt within her party, but not directing any tough talk toward Putin.

TRUMP: I have NATO. I have the U.K., which is, in somewhat, turmoil. And I have Putin. Frankly, Putin may be the easiest of them all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you say Vladimir Putin is a friend or foe?

TRUMP: I really can't say right now. As far as I'm concerned, a competitor. A competitor.

U.S. NATO Ambassador Kay Bailey Hutchison acknowledging that Moscow welcomes the growing divisions between the U.S. and the European alliance, but attempting to downplay concerns.

KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO NATO: I think the discord is music to Putin's ears, but I do think that, coming from this summit, which is allied, strong, and is going to increase our deterrent capabilities. That is going to put President Trump in a very strong position with President Putin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Now John and Alisyn, Sarah Sanders, the press secretary, has confirmed that the president is going to have two one-on-one meetings here in Brussels this afternoon. One with the French president, Emanuel Macron, and another with the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. She says during that meeting with Merkel, we can expect the president to bring up those heated criticisms that we saw him airing during the breakfast this morning. There won't be any TV coverage of that event, but we will likely hear from the president on that again.

[06:05:14] Needless to say, John and Alisyn, we are just getting started.

BERMAN: That will be wicked comfortable. Kaitlan Collins for us at the NATO headquarters in Brussels. Kaitlan, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN military and diplomatic analyst, Rear Admiral John Kirby; and CNN chief international anchor, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, as we said, European leaders, they were expecting tension. They knew these were going to be tough meetings. But this was the breakfast before he even arrived at NATO headquarters. He went in there to send a message, the president did. And he did it clearly, and loudly, with the sharpest of sharp elbows.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: You know, it's even much more than that. It is unprecedented. It violates every norm of an alliance. Specifically, I'm talking about the word "captive" and "controlled by" when he refers to Germany and Angela Merkel being controlled by Vladimir Putin and Russia.

It is unprecedented language. It is a real threat to the alliance. It's a threat to the Democratic, liberal post-world war era that Harry Truman himself signed into being with the NATO declaration 70 years ago.

And that is what really worries the alliance right now. They are very, very nervous that this alliance, as well as the G-7, which we saw crumble in disarray back in June in Canada, are being put at threat by the United States right when they need to stand up to Russia, who obviously, President Putin or rather Trump is going to meet right on the heels of the NATO summit.

I conducted those two interviews with Ursula van der Leyen, the German defense minister and with the U.S. ambassador to NATO, the former senator, Kay Bailey Hutchison. They are also concerned.

You heard the German defense minister push back. This is not a side deal to NATO military spending, as President Trump declared. This was a 15-year-old pipeline treaty with the Russians, way before Russia annexed and invaded Ukraine and took over Crimea.

So it's apples and oranges what's going on, and it's a really, really tense moment. We'll wait to see precisely what comes out of it. Does President Trump leave in the same way that he left Canada, by pulling the U.S. signature off of the final communique? That is their worst fear in NATO right now.

CAMEROTA: OK. So Admiral Kirby, I think it is riveting to hear everything that Trump -- the case that he was making, President Trump was making to them, in part because I've never heard him speak so long. I mean, usually here at home, he says, "The U.S. is being taken advantage of. It's bad." But he really laid out his case, OK, in the most fulsome way that --

AMANPOUR: No, he didn't.

CAMEROTA: He laid out his case, Christiane, in the most fulsome way that we've ever heard President Trump talk. I mean, including at debates.

I'm not -- listen, you can say it was a compelling case or not, but he sat there and told them -- there were a few different points. No. 1, why are you saying -- if Russia is such a bad actor -- let's start with this one -- was his point. If Russia is such a bad actor, why are you dependent upon them for 60 to 70 percent of your energy.

AMANPOUR: They're not.

CAMEROTA: I understand. But listen, Admiral Kirby, explain what the response should have been to that.

REAR ADMIRAL JOHN KIRBY (RET.), CNN MILITARY AND DIPLOMATIC ANALYST: Well, I think -- to Christiane's point, I think if I was Jens Stoltenberg, I would make sure he understood that Germany's trade and energy sector has nothing to do with their commitments to NATO or the purpose of NATO, writ large.

Look, Trump is trying to conflate his issues over trade and his beef with Europe and the E.U. with NATO. And he's using our military strength as the leverage to do that. That's what he's really up to here. And I also think, No. 2, that he's trying to hijack the agenda of this entire NATO summit to focus on this one issue, because to him, this issue gets to using military strength as some sort of -- some sort of axe over our NATO allies' heads.

BERMAN: Christiane, go ahead. You wanted to jump in.

AMANPOUR: No, look, the facts and figures don't add up. Yes, the president is raising this pipeline issue. It's got nothing to do with military spending, as Admiral Kirby has just said.

Plus, if you'd continued the conversation that I had with the German defense minister, she pointed out that, actually, they have a very diverse energy supply. There is diversity. They are not dependent on Russia.

And she pointed out the other correct fact that, ever since 2014, when Russia changed the rules of the game. Russia changed the rules of the game, let's say that again. Russia invaded another country and annexed it, changing the rules of the game. That was Angela Merkel who took the lead in standing up to Putin and became the leader of the western alliance in Europe, along with President Obama, and that is when they decided to up NATO's defense spending. It was then, at the summit in 2014, that they decided to up NATO's defense spending.

And let's just call a spade a spade. The president says it's unfair to the U.S. and to the taxpayers, but NATO's budget is determined on the size of each individual economy. That's why the U.S. spends more. The U.S. wants to spend more of domestic GDP on its own military.

Europe thought that Europe was safe after the collapse of the Soviet Union. It was after Russia changed the rules of the game that they realized they had to spend more. And Jens Stoltenberg told President Trump that that's exactly what they have been doing. Collectively 5.2 percent more since 2014 --

BERMAN: Right.

AMANPOUR: -- when they took the decision. And the rules say by 2024. Suddenly President Trump wants to change the rules. OK, that's his -- I guess his view. But NATO, the 29 members of NATO, said that "By 2024 we will achieve that target." And even the U.S. ambassador to NATO says that a hundred percent of all NATO members are moving in that direction.

BERMAN: Yes.

AMANPOUR: I mean, what more does the president want?

CAMEROTA: Well, you heard what he wanted. I mean, he said, Christiane, was "They can do it tomorrow. Why do we have to wait til 2024? They could do it tomorrow."

AMANPOUR: But why? But why?

CAMEROTA: In terms of -- because he's saying it's not just that the U.S.'s GDP is more. It's the percentage. Right? So what he's saying is why does the U.S. have to shoulder the burden of 4 percent of their GDP when Germany's paying, I think the number -- well, first of all, I don't even know if these numbers are right. He was saying 4.2. We can't find that.

AMANPOUR: Three point five.

CAMEROTA: Three point five, but he was using the number 4.2. And he was saying that Germany does 1 percent. And so that has stuck in his craw --

AMANPOUR: One point two.

CAMEROTA: Yes. I mean, I get it. He's not using specifics like you are, or nuance, for that matter, as you are.

AMANPOUR: I'm just talking about agreements, about treaties, agreements and plans. I mean, business plans exist for a reason, right?

CAMEROTA: Sure. Those are immaterial to him.

BERMAN: This is --

AMANPOUR: OK, fine.

BERMAN: And I don't want to make light of this, but this kind of diplomacy looks like Hulk smash. This looks like the Avengers, Hulk smash.

CAMEROTA: It's a different style, yes.

BERMAN: He is going -- I want to show you what John Kelly, the chief of staff, a lifetime Marine general, what he looked like during this breakfast meeting. Let's just watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Controlled by Russia with natural gas. So you tell me, is that appropriate? I've been complaining about this from the time I got in. And a new pipeline. And you tell me if that's appropriate, because I think it's not, and I think it's a very bad thing for NATO, and I don't think it should have happened. And I think we're going to talk to Germany about it. On top of that --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You see -- you see John Kelly there. You see Mike Pompeo, both sitting there stoically. Kay Bailey Hutchison. I'm not sure that they're down with this whole thing.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Stoically? Yes. I mean, look, John Kelly was one shot away from a spit take and a face palm, which he has face palmed in the past when the president speaks. And that's because John Kelly, like many career members of the military, have spent their lives strengthening international alliances that the U.S. leadership built in the wake of World War II, and President Trump seems determined, out of the gate, to undermine those alliances.

And the question is who benefits? Because the office he occupies is the office formerly known as leader of the free world. And he isn't acting that way.

CAMEROTA: OK, but John Kirby, this has long been a beef of President Trump's that you -- you hear him all of the time, the U.S. is being screwed over. And obviously, that's what some of his voters responded to. And so he just came with that message and just, out of the gate, he decided that that was going to be the top of the agenda.

How do you see it?

KIRBY: Yes, I think he's trying to -- as I said, I think he's trying to hijack the agenda for this summit. And to make this the single, most important issues that gets discussed.

But what worries me about that, Alisyn, is that there are a lot of good things going on in the alliance. They are transforming. They are standing up two new commands, one in the United States. They are pushing back on Russia with respect to Ukraine. NATO has been a partner and continues to be a partner in Afghanistan, Germany included.

So there are a lot of issues that -- that need to be discussed going forward, and I worry that the president, just focusing on this one thing, is going to waste everybody's time and efforts. And he's going to go to meet with Putin, not stronger but weaker.

BERMAN: Guys, stick around. We have a lot more to talk about, including who has been the big winner so far in this NATO summit. His name rhymes with Vladimir Putin. Actually, it is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:18:03] CAMEROTA: President Trump looking for some credit at the start of the NATO summit. Here's his fascinating back and forth with NATO's secretary general.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STOLTENBERG: The good news is that the allies have started to invest more in defense. After the age of cutting defense spending, they're started to add vehemence (ph) to defense spending. And last year was the biggest increase in that spending across Europe and Canada (ph) in a generation.

TRUMP: Why was that last year?

STOLTENBERG: It's also because of your leadership, because of your message (ph). And --

TRUMP: They won't write that.

STOLTENBERG: No --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Let's bring back CNN military diplomatic analyst, Rear Admiral John Kirby; and CNN chief international anchor Christiane Amanpour.

BERMAN: Well, let's talk about me.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: Let's talk about me.

CAMEROTA: I mean, that --

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Wasn't that fascinating, Christiane? Where you hear the secretary giving him kudos, and saying that this is the first time in a generation that they are stepping it up financially. And you hear President Trump wanting to codify that somehow and say, "And why is that? Isn't that because of me?"

AMANPOUR: Well, look, you know, that's the modus operandum. You've all been observing the president close up much more than I have for the last 18 months. That is his modus operandum: "It is about me. It is about me, and I've done it. And I've done it better, and I've done it in unprecedented way."

And you've seen Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary, who himself was the elected prime minister of Norway, knows a few things about politics, has taken a page out of the Macron book, i.e., flatter and try to appease and get -- you know, get ahead that way, which is what he did, and said, "Yes, Mr. President, it is also due to your leadership."

And to be frank, there is something to that, in that when President Trump goes on and on and on out it, it does enable Jens Stoltenberg to use that stick to bludgeon the other members of NATO to pony up more.

However, it doesn't mean to say that they're not already ponying up, which they are. Even the U.S. NATO ambassador told me yesterday that 100 percent of the 29 members of the alliance have been paying more since they agreed to pay more back in 2014. And they're on target to pay their required amount by 2024. Those are the rules of the game. Those are the ground rules. There has not been a summit to change those ground rules. There's not been, you know, a different sort of business plan for cost benefit analysis. That is the rule, and that's how they're playing it.

[06:20:30] AMANPOUR: And so one also has to remember what the president of the European Council said yesterday, Donald Tusk, in perfect English. "Mr. President, appreciate your allies. After all, you don't have very many right now." Now, that also is a dig. That is a dig. But he's stating a fact that this is not the most popular administration in the history of the world, and that, you know, E.U. remains an incredibly strong American ally. And it is spending more on defense than Russia is, than I think anybody but China. And the E.U. says it's doing it to underpin its alliance.

And let's also not forget that the first and only time since Harry Truman signed NATO into being 70 years ago, the first and only time that their collective defense declaration, known as Article V, has ever been invoked was on 9/11, in response to 9/11 and to the defense of the United States of America. Not the other way around.

BERMAN: One of the most really unique things about what we saw this morning is that Stoltenberg is one of the few friends that President Trump really has there. Stoltenberg has been agreeing with President Trump, and the president would not take "yes" for an answer from Stoltenberg today. He decided to go once -- hang on, Christiane. He started to say, go one step further and basically attack Germany for the Russia oil deal.

And John Avlon, I want to give you credit and let you tee this up. You suggest the Senate Intelligence Committee's report pointed to this level of acrimony here as something that is worth watching, and why?

AVLON: Yes, this -- if you go back, this is actually the intel community assessment in January of '17 that looked back at Russian meddling. And it asked -- it answered a very simple question: Why is Russian trying to influence the election? And saying, "In trying to influence the U.S. election, we assess that the Kremlin sought to advance a longstanding desire to undermine the U.S.-led liberal democratic order, the promotion of which Putin and other Russian leaders view as a threat to Russia and Putin's regime."

It's right there in black and white, folks. This is why the U.S. intelligence community unanimously believes that Putin tried to interfere in our election on Donald Trump's behalf, and it is happening right now. We're watching it happen.

CAMEROTA: OK. So Admiral Kirby, that -- so take that, John's position there, and add to it this, where President Trump is making the point that, again, about Germany being sort of tethered to Russia through this energy deal, and to my ears, it's some of the most critical sounding of Russia that he has been publicly.

So listen to this and give us your take. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Germany is a captive of Russia, because they supply -- they got rid of their coal plants. They got rid of their nuclear. They're getting so much of the oil and gas from Russia. I think it's something that NATO has to look at. I think it's very inappropriate. You and I agree that it's inappropriate. I don't know what you can do about it now, but it certainly doesn't seem to make sense that they pay billions to Russia, and now we have to defend them against Russia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What do you think about that tone, Admiral?

KIRBY: Well, I mean, totally inappropriate. I mean, No. 1, as Christiane pointed out earlier, it's just factually false. Yes, Germany is a net importer of their energy, but fully a third of it comes from renewables. And this was a deal that was put in place before Crimea, or invasion of Ukraine.

No. 2, there's nothing NATO can do about it. Nor should NATO do anything about it. The -- the trade and energy sector for Germany, as for all our European allies, has nothing to do with their commitments to NATO.

And No. 3, NATO is an alliance. And the president can whine and wank all he wants about what member nations are doing in their energy sector or what they're committing on defense spending, but it's an alliance. And you saw the United States Senate unanimously -- almost unanimously -- come up with a non-binding resolution that supports our participation in that alliance. The president can't dissolve our commitments.

CAMEROTA: Understood. But what about his tone? Do you think -- listen, this is -- as we have been reporting for the past year, he has taken an unusually conciliatory, for a U.S. president, tone towards Russia for this -- these 18 months, or longer, during the campaign.

Did you think that -- did you hear anything different? Or what did you think was his motive for saying something off message for him?

KIRBY: Off message for him, exactly. So look, I think there's some schizophrenia here in the Trump administration. If you look in the aggregate about what his national security team has done about Russia, you can say, I think, logically, that they have been very, very strong with their sanctions, with the kicking out of 60 diplomats and, in fact threatening more sanctions if, in fact, this Nord Stream 2 pipeline goes forward.

[06:25:08] They have been strong, I think, and aggressive against Russia. It's that President Trump himself -- and this gets back to John's point -- cannot bring himself to admit that he got any help in this election by Vladimir Putin.

Now, whether Putin has anything on him, I don't know, but he cannot bring himself to be tough on Putin, because he's concerned about the legitimacy of his own election.

BERMAN: All right. Christiane, Admiral Kirby, thanks so much. An important discussion. Again, these meetings going on all morning. We're going to keep our eye on them, because we've already seen some major developments.

Tomorrow I'm going to be in London as the president continues his tour through Europe. He'll be done with NATO, and tomorrow he'll start meeting with British Prime Minister Theresa May, who he has been going after and pointing out the political troubles she is in, in that country.

CAMEROTA: OK. Look forward to that.

Meanwhile, President Trump is readying new tariffs on China. How big are these? How will they affect you?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right. Breaking overnight, the Trump administration readying a new round of tariffs against Chinese goods.