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President Trump Tweets Special Counsel Robert Mueller Has Conflict of Interest Affecting Russia Probe; Interview with President Trump's Attorney Rudy Giuliani. Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired July 30, 2018 - 8:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RONAN FARROW, CONTRIBUTOR, "THE NEW YORKER": I think accountability here will mean potentially taking a hit in terms of the bottom line.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Ronan Farrow, thank you for your excellent reporting and always sharing it with us on NEW DAY. We really appreciate it.
FARROW: Thank you, Alisyn, good to be here.
CAMEROTA: We're following a lot of news, including a live interview with Rudy Giuliani, so let's get right to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: The man is a pathological manipulator and liar. These are tapes, I want you to hear them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's important we keep Rudy Giuliani's statements in context. This is just spin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My guess is that this is a rift that will continue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tweets are a sign of his mood. It is not a happy state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of a strategy to be the deflector in chief, the distorter.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we don't get border security, we'll have no choice, we'll close down the country.
REP. PAUL RYAN, (R) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: The president is willing to be patient. I said we can get that done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should we expect a September shutdown?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's hope not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need border security. We can't have open borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota on John Berman.
CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, July 30th, 8:00 in the east. How does that happen, all so fast. John Berman is off. David Gregory joins me. Great to have you.
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Great to be here. A lot to talk about. You're going to talk to Rudy Giuliani coming up here soon.
CAMEROTA: We have another busy soon. So President Trump continues to try to undermine Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation, the president lashing out in a series of tweets slamming Mueller as the special counsel begins the prosecution of his first case against the president's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort. That trial begins tomorrow.
GREGORY: Meanwhile the president's attorney, Rudy Giuliani, aforementioned, is attacking Michael Cohen. Giuliani praised Cohen as an honest lawyer, you might remember, just a few weeks ago. Now he's calling him a pathological manipulator who has lied his entire life. In just moments, as I mentioned, we will ask Giuliani to explain when he joins us right here on new day. Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Abby Phillip live at the White House this morning. Abby, good morning.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, David. After a weekend of furious tweets about special counsel Robert Mueller, President Trump and his allies are intensifying their attacks on the special counsel. But they are also intensifying their criticisms of Michael Cohen, the president's former personal lawyer, who is already signaled he's willing to talk to investigators.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIP: With Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation inching closer and closer to Trump's inner circle, the president ramping up attacks against the probe and directly targeting Mueller by name. In a series of tweets, the president accusing Mueller of having conflicts of interest, including an alleged contentious business relationship with Mr. Trump. The White House did not respond to CNN's request for information, but ethics experts from the Justice Department determined last year that Mueller's assignment is appropriate.
President Trump's latest criticism coming days after sources told CNN that the president's former lawyer Michael Cohen is prepared to tell Mueller that then candidate Trump knew in advance and approved the Trump Tower meeting with Russians promising dirt on Hillary Clinton months before the 2016 election. The president has repeatedly denied that he had any knowledge of the meeting.
Cohen also authorizing the release of a recording of a conversation with Mr. Trump discussing a potential payment to a Playboy model who claims she had an affair with him, something the president denies.
MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: I need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend David.
PHILLIP: President Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani telling CBS the tapes of 183 Cohen conversations exist but that only one captures a conversation with the president.
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: There are 12 others, maybe 11 or 12 others out of the 183 in which the president is discussed at any length by Cohen, mostly with reporters, all clearly corroborating what the president has said in detail in many of these tweets. So these are tapes I want you to read, I want you to hear them.
PHILLIP: Giuliani continuing to assail Cohen's character.
GIULIANI: The man is a pathological manipulator, liar.
PHILLIP: Despite repeatedly praising him.
GIULIANI: He doesn't have any incriminating evidence about the president or himself. The man is an honest, honorable lawyer.
PHILLIP: President Trump also taking to Twitter to again threaten a government shutdown if Congress does not fund his border wall and change the nation's immigration laws. The threat coming after the president met with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and House Speaker Paul Ryan last week to talk about government funding. After that meeting, both leaders down playing the possibility of a shutdown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're not worried about a government shutdown?
MITCH MCCONNELL, (R) SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: No, that's not going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP: Just moments ago, President Trump tweeting again this morning about the issue of immigration, saying that he needs funding for his border wall.
[08:05:00] But later today he's going to have a press conference with the Italian prime minister where he's likely to get some questions about that and all of these other issues surrounding his administration. He'll also have what we call a pool spray this morning, a venue where reporters could potentially ask him questions. But just last week the administration tried to punish a reporter -- CNN reporter for asking questions in such a venue, so we will be looking carefully to see how they act today when he has that opportunity, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Abby, thank you very much. Joining us now is President Trump's attorney Rudy Giuliani. Mr. Mayor, thanks for being here.
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: So the president's most recent tweet about Robert Mueller says this, and it got our attention. "Is Robert Mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to President Trump, including the fact we had a very nasty and contentious business relationship?" What's he referring to?
GIULIANI: He's referring to a dispute which I imagine Mueller -- I imagine he disclosed it to Rosenstein when he appointed him because it would involve something that actually wasn't settled even to this day.
CAMEROTA: What is it?
GIULIANI: But that's up to the president and Mueller to describe. It's not part of my legal representation.
CAMEROTA: Hold on a second, Mr. Mayor. He's putting it out to the world in a tweet. Can we get some facts about it?
GIULIANI: Sure, you'll get plenty of facts.
CAMEROTA: When?
GIULIANI: He has to do it. I'm not going to do it. This is what they did to him. Cohen put out the tape with him. His lawyer, Cohen, put out a tape with him, just gave his description of it, and it went viral. "New York Times" printed it --
CAMEROTA: Yes, and you don't like that.
GIULIANI: And they didn't give any die tails. Why not give the rest of the details.
CAMEROTA: Let President Trump give the details. What does he mean? This is attention grabbing. What contentious business relationship?
GIULIANI: It's good it's attention grabbing.
CAMEROTA: Yes, but it's not good in terms of the facts, because --
GIULIANI: When you're getting beaten up by all kinds of anonymous tweets you know are coming from Lanny Davis and Cohen, and the press is actually for the first time actually acknowledging that you're not doing it, and you put out something like that, you have every right to say, OK, you explain it, Mueller, stand up and be a man.
CAMEROTA: Wait a minute, this doesn't make sense. How can the president make this claim and not support it?
GIULIANI: He doesn't have to.
CAMEROTA: Why is it up to Robert Mueller to have to support the president's tweet?
GIULIANI: Because he has the conflict not the president.
CAMEROTA: What's the conflict?
GIULIANI: I can't tell you. I'm not sure I know exactly what the conflict is. I have a good idea what it is. It's one that would have kept me out of the investigation.
CAMEROTA: What does that mean?
GIULIANI: What it means is I would have had had a personal interest, a personal dispute with the president of the United States before the investigation that really precluded me from -- maybe it explains why he hired 13 Democrats, why he hired a guy who donated --
CAMEROTA: You know that these guys also donated to Republicans, right?
GIULIANI: No way.
CAMEROTA: Yes. All sorts of contributions.
GIULIANI: It's not all sorts of contributions.
CAMEROTA: Republicans and Democrats.
GIULIANI: That is totally wrong.
CAMEROTA: I think I have a graphic somebody.
GIULIANI: Mueller hasn't contributed to a Republican. He worked for Obama and he worked for Republicans. We have a $36,000 guy, I don't know any prosecutor that donated a $36,000 to two parties.
CAMEROTA: So you're saying Mueller worked with Republicans and Democrats, yes?
GIULIANI: Yes, but he hired a completely biased staff. He hired a guy who was probably the most Justice Department prosecutor, Andrew Weissmann. You know who Andrew Weissmann is. He's a complete scoundrel.
CAMEROTA: Hold on a second, are you saying --
GIULIANI: Two cases refer to him of the court explaining that Weissmann was unethical.
CAMEROTA: One second.
GIULIANI: People should know in.
CAMEROTA: Well, look, I think people would like to know the facts, and that's what I'm trying to get to.
GIULIANI: They do.
CAMEROTA: Are you saying that the business conflict that Mueller and President Trump had, is that about his golf course?
GIULIANI: I'm not going to go any further.
CAMEROTA: Is that what you think?
GIULIANI: It's up to the president to describe it in further detail if he elects to do so. Or if Mueller would like to come out and explain why it's not a conflict, I invite Bob to do it.
CAMEROTA: We didn't --
GIULIANI: Let me finish. We waived the privilege when the whole thing came out because we're anxious to have you get the truth. So let's see if Mueller has the same impulse.
CAMEROTA: Again, it's President Trump that brought up it up. I think it's incumbent upon President Trump to explain what he's talking about.
GIULIANI: It's Mueller who possibly hasn't disclosed the conflict.
CAMEROTA: Why didn't President Trump bring it up 14 months ago when Mueller was appointed?
GIULIANI: Because I think he was hoping that maybe it had passed Mueller by, maybe he had gotten over it. But it's quite obvious the extent of it. They haven't gotten back to us in 10 days over our recommendation of how to do an interview. I'm sure they are in bad faith about an interview at that point.
CAMEROTA: What does that mean? How do you know they're in bad faith? Tell me why.
GIULIANI: Because they don't get back to us.
CAMEROTA: So you've reached out --
GIULIANI: We wrote to them.
CAMEROTA: You wrote to them, and you gave your list of the things, of your conditions.
GIULIANI: Correct.
CAMEROTA: And you've heard --
GIULIANI: And we have done that several times, and they were very forthcoming, very willing to talk about it. Then when you get to the point of making a decision, they go off and do something. And then something happens. Cohen gets raided. The Horowitz report comes out and blasts the origins of the investigation. The Strzok report comes out and shows a guy who is off the wall who ran the original investigation, hates Trump, who claims he's not biased, but he hates him. And now we've got Cohen, we've got 183 hours of tape, you've only heard three hours of it.
[08:10:04] CAMEROTA: And I do want to get to Cohen in a second.
GIULIANI: I'm sorry, I made a mistake. Not 183 hours. Some are very short. We have 183 unique tape recordings.
CAMEROTA: Got it.
GIULIANI: Only one with the president of the United States. CAMEROTA: Only one of those you're saying is where the president
points -- hold on a second, only one of those has the president's voice on it?
GIULIANI: Only one has the president on it -- excuse me. There are about eight interruptions, like Michael, I'll see you at 2:00 or Mr. Trump, I'll see you at 4:00, or we'll have coffee. About eight of those.
CAMEROTA: OK. I will get to Cohen in a second. But a couple more things with Mueller. Are you still having negotiations with his team about the president sitting down?
GIULIANI: No. Not yet.
CAMEROTA: Those are done?
GIULIANI: I don't know what will happen after the latest statement by the president, and we haven't heard anything. I don't know why. They can write a report without him. They do not need President Trump -- they have two aspects to this, collusion, they have his side of the story, even this Russian meeting, I'm happy to tell them he wasn't there, he wasn't at the meeting.
CAMEROTA: How do you know that? How do you know the president didn't know?
GIULIANI: Because -- I'll tell you why I know. Because Cohen always goes too far. When you're lying, there's always a track. So he said there was a one on one meeting that Donald Jr. came in and told him about the meeting was about to take place. There are two witnesses that say it didn't happen.
CAMEROTA: The president and his son.
GIULIANI: Right --
CAMEROTA: But they have a self-interest in saying --
GIULIANI: And Cohen has a much bigger self-interest in saying the opposite in order to get a favor with Mueller. Also, in all these months, in all of these tapes, he never said it. And all of a sudden it appears now when he's maybe going to go to jail and he's singing for himself. Come on.
Let's go further. Two days before that he claims there's a big meeting with about five people. He was in the meeting. I've only been able to talk to three of the five people in the meeting. Three of the five tell me it didn't take place. All of them I think have been under oath on it, and the other two couldn't possibly reveal it because Mueller never asks us about it.
CAMEROTA: OK, again, I do want to get to Cohen in a second. I know you're very excited to talk about it.
GIULIANI: We are being aimed at by a luckily not a very artful liar, but a liar.
CAMEROTA: We're going to get to that. One more thing about Mueller. When is the last time you talked to the Mueller team?
GIULIANI: Me or --
CAMEROTA: The team.
GIULIANI: We talked to them probably 10 days -- I'm sorry, Jane made a few calls over the last week to see if we can get an answer.
CAMEROTA: Why would you want to allow your client, the president, to sit down with somebody who --
GIULIANI: Good question.
CAMEROTA: Are you saying that the Mueller investigation is not legitimate?
GIULIANI: Yes.
CAMEROTA: You do not believe it's legitimate?
GIULIANI: Correct.
CAMEROTA: Why would you let your client sit down with that person?
GIULIANI: Maybe we have differing opinions within the group. We have after all five very, very good lawyers. We don't have five different opinions, but we have a split of opinion.
CAMEROTA: And some of them believe --
GIULIANI: And also we have a client -- we have a client, which you always have to consider, who is the president of the United States who wants to be heard.
CAMEROTA: Why would the president want to sit down with someone he has criticized --
GIULIANI: Maybe Mueller has allowed so many improper things to happen. He has so many prejudiced people with him that the president may change his mind. We haven't tested that.
CAMEROTA: If the president feels this strongly, why are you still negotiating the sit down?
GIULIANI: He doesn't feel that strongly. He feels, he has felt strongly about on some subject being willing to testify.
CAMEROTA: And is that over?
GIULIANI: I don't know. We haven't talked about that yet. I think it should be, but he's the client, not me.
CAMEROTA: You think the president still might have an interest in sitting down with Robert Mueller who has criticized via Twitter and elsewhere?
GIULIANI: What I think and what I know may be two different things. I think he shouldn't.
(LAUGHTER)
GIULIANI: I know how convinced he is that he didn't do anything wrong and wants to explain it, and I've seen other people get into trouble thinking that, innocent people.
CAMEROTA: Bob Mueller.
GIULIANI: I thought we were talking about Cohen.
CAMEROTA: Not yet. Bob Mueller, decorated Vietnam War vet, FBI director, highly respected among Congress, among Republicans, among Democrats. I think that you respected him.
GIULIANI: I know him for a long, long time.
CAMEROTA: Do you still respect him?
GIULIANI: We'll see. We'll see what happens.
CAMEROTA: Today do you respect Bob Mueller?
GIULIANI: I guess the judgment is out.
CAMEROTA: You don't know if you respect this man anymore who has all of these credentials that I just read?
GIULIANI: I don't respect credentials. I respect performance. I see a guy who is conducting an investigation, particularly the Russian collusion part, that is by now obviously. You only can investigate an innocent man so long. If the guy didn't commit the bank robbery and you think he did and you keep investigating him, you're going to do it forever. You're going to keep coming up with Cohens and Horowitz.
CAMEROTA: I understand, and we have due process, I understand all of that, but the investigation isn't done yet, and you know how long --
GIULIANI: Yes, it is. Of course it's done. If they are looking at his tweets, the investigation is done. We're going to do obstruction by tweet on a president of United States as an article of impeachment? Go read the law review articles about that. It's laughable. It's scary.
CAMEROTA: Paul Manafort's trial is starting tomorrow.
[08:15:00]
GIULIANI: Right. He has no information incrimination of the president, I know that for a fact. They can squeeze him. Paul Manafort does not know anything nor could it be possible he did. He was with him for four months. I was there when Paul Manafort was there. Paul Manafort was a brilliant gatherer of delegates. CAMEROTA: Gatherer of delegates. He was chairman --
GIULIANI: He was, but he really wasn't Jared and the sons and these other people were really running it but OK. But Paul --
CAMEROTA: But you're saying that Paul Manafort did not any have power in the campaign?
GIULIANI: I'm not saying that. He had a very discreet important area. He was never involved in intimate business relationships with Donald Trump. That just -- four months, they are not going to be colluding about Russians, which I'm not I don't even know if that's a crime, colluding about Russians. You start analyzing the crime. The hacking is the crime.
CAMEROTA: That certainly is the original problem yes.
GIULIANI: The president didn't hack?
CAMEROTA: Of course not. That's the original --
GIULIANI: He didn't pay them for hacking.
CAMEROTA: As you know, it has led other places the meeting with the Russians.
GIULIANI: If you got the hacked information from the Russians here at CNN and played it, would you be in jeopardy of going to jail? Of course, not.
CAMEROTA: The meeting with the Russians, how can you be sure if the president didn't know beforehand? You're saying it was a he said he said.
GIULIANI: Nobody can be sure of anything. A situation like this, you have two things that argue against Cohen. Three things. Then you get to the other meeting he says he was at that the president wasn't at, it's three or four on one. That's -- he also added -- or Lanny Davis added there was a meeting two days before, the meeting took place with Donald Jr., Jared, Manafort and two others, Gates and one more person.
CAMEROTA: And that's the real meeting. You're saying --
GIULIANI: That's a real meeting on another provable subject in which he would not --
CAMEROTA: The meeting just so I'm clear, the meeting with the Russians, who was in there?
GIULIANI: I have to -- Jared. It was with Donald Jr., Jared and two to three other people. I'm not sure of exactly who.
CAMEROTA: And --
GIULIANI: But the one who came --
CAMEROTA: And four Russians.
GIULIANI: The one who came in allegedly told the president about it was Donald, which Donald denies and president denies and there is no corroboration and Cohen never said this at any time up until now.
CAMEROTA: When Don Jr. made that day before the meeting and I think after calls to a blocked number. Was that the president?
GIULIANI: I don't know. This meeting that Cohen is talking about took place before the meeting with the Russians, but the other thing that's contradicted is Cohen also now says that he says too much that two days before he was participating in a meeting with roughly the same group of people but not the president, definitely not the president in which they were talking about the strategy of the meeting with the Russians. The people in that meeting deny it. The people who have been able to interview. People we have not interviewed have not said that about that meeting.
CAMEROTA: OK. There's my larger issue. What's in it for Michael Cohen to say the president knew about the meeting? Why is he lying about that?
GIULIANI: You have to be kidding me?
CAMEROTA: How does that help --
GIULIANI: He's the big fish. You don't give up -- what is Cohen going to do? You have a couple of taxi cab drivers and get him out of jail? The reason they have Manafort in solitary confinement because he'll give up Donald Trump or some Russian -- this is what judge said about Mueller, your hero there, Mueller's investigation.
Mueller is investigating Manafort taking a case they passed on, resurrecting it and trying to make it the crime of the century in order to squeeze him to testify. You know how easy it would be for Manafort to get out of it if he was a liar?
Just say I brought two Russians, no corroboration. What Cohen has done to himself and Lanny Davis has done is ruin his credibility before he shows up at the prosecutor's door. Do you think anybody will put him on the witness stand ever?
CAMEROTA: Well, look, here we go. You had said not two months ago that Michael Cohen was an honest and honorable man. Now you're saying he's a pathological liar? How is it?
GIULIANI: Well, that's about as unfair as you can say. How did I know he was a lawyer taping his client? You tell me a lawyer is taping his client, I have to say sorry, I made a mistake, unethical, scum bag, horrible person.
I never heard of taping without the client's consent and person like Cohen doing what he did to Chris Cuomo, coming into his office in this building and taking out his phone and putting it away and saying I'm not recording you and then recording him for two hours.
CAMEROTA: That was an off the record conversation. We don't comment on that.
GIULIANI: You don't have to comment. I have the transcript --
CAMEROTA: I'm saying we don't.
GIULIANI: By the way, he didn't put out first part of that tape. I had to go find the first part of that tape. He also cut off the last part of the tape with Trump which our expert says is doctored. You've got a really bad guy --
[08:20:14] CAMEROTA: You're spilling out a lot of stuff here.
GIULIANI: I know it's overwhelming.
CAMEROTA: Let's take a quick break and dive into all the Cohen stuff --
GIULIANI: I can be on all day if you want.
CAMEROTA: OK, let's do it. Clear the commercial break.
GIULIANI: Just need a little coffee.
CAMEROTA: We'll get you that. More with Rudy Giuliani next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: All right. We are back with President Trump's Attorney Rudy Giuliani. So, Mr. Mayor, let me just play for you the things that you have said about Michael Cohen who you're now going after in no uncertain terms --
GIULIANI: You mean before I knew he was taping his client?
CAMEROTA: Yes.
GIULIANI: (Inaudible) other people --
CAMEROTA: Correct.
GIULIANI: And lying?
CAMEROTA: Correct, listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: The man is an honest honorable lawyer. Michael is not going to lie. He's going to tell the truth. The man is a pathological manipulator, liar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: OK, which one is it?
GIULIANI: George Washington would have said that about Benedict Arnold at a certain point in time. What are you picking on me for saying he was an honest man when I didn't know he taped recorded conversations of his clients. He was shaking down people down for money. He was lying about things on a tape, manipulating or doctoring tapes. I didn't know any of that when I said it. George Washington didn't know that Benedict Arnold was a traitor.
CAMEROTA: Now what you are saying --
GIULIANI: He was man of no character.
CAMEROTA: He's a lifelong liar. How do you know?
[08:25:06] GIULIANI: Because I see 183 unique tapes, 11 in substance in which I see him fooling, lying and deceiving everyone that he talked to.
CAMEROTA: Over the course of -- these tapes cover what time frame?
GIULIANI: Probably '16-'17. Maybe a little '18.
CAMEROTA: Who else is on these tapes? Who else do you hear --
GIULIANI: In each case it's a third party, one with the president and then mostly in our tapes reports, couple of cases there are people that are business people. But not people that -- mostly reports.
CAMEROTA: And the fact that --
GIULIANI: And none of them knew they were recorded, none.
CAMEROTA: The fact that President Trump for more than ten years worked closely with --
GIULIANI: Some executives, with fixer, this close confidant who you now says is a pathological liar and life-long liar, what does that say about the president's judgment?
GIULIANI: He made -- he turned out to have a close friend betray him like Brutus put the last knife into Caesar -- I think they both trusted those people. It happens in life, Alisyn, that you get double crossed -- I'm not going to mention them. I've had people that I work with under tremendous stress, remarkable people who turn out to be terrible disloyal and dishonest.
CAMEROTA: It seems like what happened was that Michael Cohen after he got in trouble -- after he was raided by the FBI and as you know the Southern District of New York is looking into some of his business dealings, it seems like he was sending out clues or sending up some flares and looking for some reinforcement or reassurance from his long-time boss, President Trump. And President Trump didn't do that. It seems like what would really help Michael Cohen is a pardon. Would President Trump now ever pardon Michael Cohen?
GIULIANI: I can't tell you whether he would pardon him. Obviously, he shouldn't pardon anybody during the investigation. I can't take away from the president nor would I the discretion to pardon anyone.
CAMEROTA: But would you do -- still a possibility, given all --
GIULIANI: It would be so unfair. First of all, I have said this a couple of times. Nobody should proceed on the assumption that President Trump is going to pardon them, nobody. They should make decisions about their lives based on the fact they got a deal with whatever the government is offering them or not offering them or how honest or dishonest they want to be. On the other hand, if the president believes in unjust situation happened, of course like any other president, he'll pardon them.
CAMEROTA: Given that you say he's a pathological liar and lifelong liar, can you say unequivocally the president will never pardon him?
GIULIANI: I cannot say that. If I said it, it wouldn't matter.
CAMEROTA: Why would the president --
GIULIANI: You're asking me. I wouldn't pardon him if he did that to me.
CAMEROTA: You suggested that this is really about Michael Cohen being in trouble with a taxicab --
GIULIANI: I don't know. He was very unusual subpoena was obtained. So, there's got to be an affidavit for that subpoena. In that affidavit, they list a number of crimes in the -- even in the warrant itself, they list a number of possible crimes, none of which would have to do with us, bank fraud, that relate to the taxicabs, I don't know what type of evidence they have for that.
Judging by Cohen's reaction, I assume he believes he's in trouble. He's not in trouble because of us because they can't prove any of these things. It has to be these other things. Also, we see all of this material but can't touch it. We figure there's something in there but this all -- that is all guesswork.
CAMEROTA: You're talking about the Michael Cohen having taped the president where they are talking about setting up an LLC to pay hash money to a Playboy model who alleged an affair with the president.
GIULIANI: Yes.
CAMEROTA: And you say --
GIULIANI: Sure, she had already been paid AMI had the rights and they were setting up a corporation to buy the rights back from AMI, that's correct.
CAMEROTA: Right. All of this, hush money to a Playboy model, allegations much marital affairs, setting up an LLC, buying the rights from a tabloid, isn't all of this unbecoming for a president of the United States?
GIULIANI: I don't know. You don't investigate a president for unbecoming conduct otherwise --
CAMEROTA: I mean, all of this stuff.
GIULIANI: I don't want to bring up other presidents but --
CAMEROTA: But you're going after Michael Cohen and denigrating his --
GIULIANI: I'm not going after --
CAMEROTA: We see all of the stuff that we're talking about, overarching issues.
GIULIANI: I'm not denigrating Michael Cohen's character. I have --
CAMEROTA: Called him a pathological liar.
GIULIANI: I've practiced law for a long time, if you tape record your client and lie to your client about it, you have no character. You forfeited your character. You forfeited your law license as far as I'm concerned.
CAMEROTA: Well, as far as you're concerned --
