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Hurricane Tests Trump; Trump Signs Election Order; Pope Francis Meeting with Bishops; Florence Takes Aim at Carolinas; Starr Discusses Clinton Investigation. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired September 13, 2018 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00] ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hard time expressing empathy in situations like this. That he becomes fixated on this issue of praise of whether he's getting enough credit and he doesn't go to the next level, which is to say, putting that aside, what is happening to the people who are being affected by all of this.

And people around Trump have different views about whether or not this is because he doesn't care or because he just has trouble expressing it. But nevertheless, like everyone agrees that this is what we're seeing out here. This is the crux of the problem with how the president has dealt with natural disasters. That he talks about storms as if they're sporting events and talks about the response as if he's being graded by someone, who knows, and he talks less about things like comforting people and being there for people. He throws paper towels at people who are trying to get their lives together after a storm. And he creates these cringe-worthy moments that for people around him are hugely, hugely problematic.

It's not just style. I think that there is -- the function of the presidency. This is it. It is not just being the head of the executive branch. It is also about saying the right things, about showing people that you are the leader in this situation. That you're not just trying to get a pat on the back. And that's where he struggles.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Well, comforter in chief I mean is what it's been called in the past.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Yes.

CAMEROTA: And that is one of the responsibilities, or roles, at least historically, of the president, John, as you know. But this president, it's been written and I think we all see evidence, he just -- he -- he will never admit a mistake.

AVLON: No. That's an article of faith that goes back to advice Roy Cohn gave him in the '70s and '80s, never complain, never explain.

But, I mean, your point, the comforter in chief point is important. When the nation is dealing with a massive disaster, natural or man- made, that's the role the president plays as a way of uniting the nation. But that leadership requires empathy in those situations. And as Abby points out, there's an empathy gap here. You saw it in that tweet yesterday declaring a, you know, A-plus about

storm relief and attacking the mayor of San Juan, whereas the administration still has not fully come to grips with the nearly 3,000 who died.

And there's a real danger as this storm approaches. Not that the response won't be everything it could possibly be based on the hard work of people at FEMA, but as we saw after Katrina, if presidents go into self-congratulation mode, a heck of a job, Brownie, that kind of puffery grates because it's so opposite of the people's pain. And every instinct this president has is going to go into that.

CAMEROTA: That's such a great point. It's also opposite from what people see around them.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: From their own experience. From what we've all seen with our own eyes. And that's why -- I mean it's not only tone deaf, it's just -- it becomes crazy talk at some point.

OK, but there's other news that's happening, Abby, that I want to get to and other political news, because the president signed this executive order about election interference. So, let me read it. The executive order requires the intelligence community and other federal agencies to assess the extent of any foreign interference after every United States election.

All right, it's been pointed out that before would be better, not to just be reactive, OK? And, in fact, some lawmakers say that it doesn't go far enough. Here's what Marco Rubio and Chris Van Hollen say about this. Today's announcement by the administration recognizes the threat, but does not go far enough to address it. The United States can and must do more. Mandatory sanctions on anyone who attacks our electoral systems serve as the best deterrent.

So what's going on here, Abby? What's the story behind why the president felt compelled to sign this executive order?

PHILLIP: Right. Well, this is -- seems clear to be -- clearly to be an effort by the administration to demonstrate some kind of toughness on this issue of election interference. Going back to the op-ed writer that you mentioned earlier, there was something in there that I think rang true to a lot of people who both observed this White House and are in this administration, that sometimes there are parallel paths happening when it comes to some key issues.

And on Russia, that is the biggest of those issues. This is another case where the administration is barreling forward towards something that they think is important to demonstrate, to give them more political coverage so they can be more flexible in other areas.

But the president is kind of on the back end of it. Yes, he signed it, but he did it extremely quietly. The White House didn't even put out a photo of him signing this thing yesterday. They had a conference call with officials on, you know, some of them on background. Look, this is not something that the White House, if they wanted to do

this in a big way, they could have done it. They didn't. But that's because often the president is willing to sign these documents, but he's not willing to be the front man for it. And this is the dual Trump presidency, where the administration is trying to get more leverage in order to be more flexible on diplomacy. And in order to do that, they have to get tough on Russia. They recognize that and this is what they're trying to do.

[06:35:00] CAMEROTA: Yes. OK, that's strange, John.

AVLON: Yes. When --

CAMEROTA: I mean the president likes credit.

AVLON: He likes to be the front man. Why is the one issue in which he doesn't want to be the front man and take the credit have to do with Russia and election meddling? And the pushback, by the way, the senators are giving is that this should be done mandatorily.

There was a quick moment, though, that's really important that I think got lost, which is Mike Rogers, former NSA for Donald Trump, at a conference earlier this week staid that he would brief President Trump on Russia and election meddling. And he said, without fully explaining it, the president would say something to the effect of, Mike, you know I'm in a different place than the reality of the briefing he was presenting on Russia and election meddling. That demands further scrutiny.

CAMEROTA: I'm glad that you're highlighting that.

John, Abby, thank you very much.

OK, other news as well.

At this hour, Pope Francis is meeting with U.S. bishops of the Catholic Church at the Vatican about the priest sex abuse scandal. The holy see also announcing that the pope will convene a summit in February with the presidents of every bishop's conference from around the world.

So CNN's Delia Gallagher has been following all of this for us. She is live in Rome.

Hi, Delia.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Hi to you, Alisyn.

That's right, as we speak, Pope Francis and the leadership of the U.S. Catholic's Bishops are meeting amid growing tension for U.S. bishops, the Vatican and indeed the pope himself to answer questions about what they knew and when regarding sexual abuse allegations against former Cardinal McCarrick. And this comes at a time when a new CNN poll is showing that Pope Francis' popularity in the United States is plummeting, and on the heels of news from Germany of a new report on clerical sex abuse there, citing some 3,766 cases reported in the years 1946 to 2014.

As you mentioned, Pope Francis has called for a global meeting of bishops from around the world to come to the Vatican in February to discuss the issue.

And the embattled archbishop of Washington, D.C., Cardinal Donald Wuerl, now saying he will come to the Vatican to offer his resignation to Pope Francis. There is no word yet, Alisyn, on when that meeting might take place.

CAMEROTA: OK, Delia Gallagher, thank you very much for the update from Rome.

All right, let's go back to Oak Island, North Carolina, where John Berman has gotten the plum assignment of being able the to thrashed and soaked for the next at least 48 hours as you monitor this hurricane that people are calling the storm of a lifetime because of all of its own sort of unique elements that are particularly harrowing.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, This is a beautiful island, Ali. It will not be beautiful for the next two days.

The sun starting to rise. The outer bands of Hurricane Florence beginning to strike the Carolina coast. We'll get a forecast just next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:41:49] BERMAN: This morning, Hurricane Florence is growing in size. And that is a huge issue in terms of the storm surge. It will have a big impact up and down the Carolina coast. The outer bands starting to hit the outer banks and some of the barrier islands here in North Carolina.

I want to go to Carolina Beach, a little north of where I am. CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam is live from there.

Derek.

DEREK VAN DAM, AMS METEOROLOGIST: John, first light in Carolina Beach. Mandatory curfew in place. And most people have gotten out of this region. And rightfully so because the highest point on this island that I'm located at is roughly about 30 feet. And the official forecast from the National Weather Service with storm surge is about 13 feet in this area. That means inundation of first level of the homes that land -- or that line up this landscape across the coastline here.

I want to pan just a little bit to my right. And you can see that the ocean is starting to get a little bit more churned up. We're starting to see some of that ocean water pushing onshore. We have just passed our low tide, which was about 4:30 this morning and we're working our way towards high tide at 11:00 this morning. And it will be interesting to see if that coincides with the strongest part of the storm, which will start impacting this region later tonight and as we head into the early morning hours of Friday.

Main threats here, of course, storm surge. We know that the potential for breaking heavy rainfall totals here, upwards of 24 to 30 inches of rain are possible along this coastline. And we've been told by authorities here that only about a thousand residents have remained and are going to bunker down. And it's also concerning that if they've chosen to ride out this storm, that they're not only putting their lives at risk, but they're also putting the lives of authorities or firefighters who have to potentially rescue them from this dangerous storm that's barreling towards the coast.

John, back to you.

BERMAN: That's exactly right. Derek Van Dam up on Carolina Beach.

Derek, our thanks to you.

And as Derek was pointing out, this storm will hit for so long, people are going to have to withstand several high tide cycles. The surge will be an issue for 48 hours.

This hurricane, Hurricane Florence, is disrupting air travel. That's already started to happen. We know Charleston International Airport, it's closed. At least 800 flights have also been canceled in the southeast.

Let's give you a sense of where they've been canceled. American Airlines canceling more than 500 flights through Sunday. Meantime, United has suspended flights to and from airports in ports of North and South Carolina, as well.

That's just part of the issue here. What they want to do is get planes on the ground so that they can get them out again after the storm passes through.

Let's go back to Alisyn in New York.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, John, thank you very much.

There's other news, of course, but we'll get back to you shortly.

[06:44:38] So 20 years after the impeachment of Bill Clinton, the man who led the charge, Ken Starr, is out with a new memoir giving his side of the story and how that event informs what is happening today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: President Trump's attacks on Special Counsel Robert Mueller seem awfully familiar to another special prosecutor, Ken Starr. This week marks the 20th anniversary of the Starr report that led to the impeachment of President Clinton.

So, joining us now is Ken Starr. He is the author of the new book "Contempt: A Memoir of the Clinton Investigation."

Mr. Starr, great to have you here.

KEN STARR, LED INDEPENDENT COUNSEL INVESTIGATION ON PRESIDENT CLINTON: Hey, great to be here, Alisyn. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: It's been 20 years. What took you so long to write this?

STARR: Slow writer. Combination of circumstances. It was a milestone. And Hillary lost the election. And so I felt, given my own personal circumstances, it's sort of now or never. So I wanted to recall this.

CAMEROTA: But why -- you would not have written this had Hillary Clinton won the election?

STARR: It would have been a different set of circumstances. I'm an old-fashioned person who wants the president to succeed. I had no interest in raining on a parade. But I did think this was important to share the historical record, especially, as it turns out, it has lots of resonance, lots of echoes from yesteryear being heard right now.

CAMEROTA: It's deja vu all over again.

STARR: Yogi was right.

CAMEROTA: For you, I mean it sounds like in reading this, there are so many parallels. You felt besieged while you were the prosecutor by President Clinton's surrogates. You were under attack by them.

[06:50:05] So what do you think of the president and his surrogates now going after Robert Mueller?

STARR: Well, Alisyn, as I recount in the book, what we now see is, President Trump and the team, and he's got very able lawyers, have taken a page from the Clinton playbook. It was a constant assault, as you say, and it does, in fact, erode confidence in the administration of justice. If the prosecutor's totally under attack all the time, it's not good.

CAMEROTA: But President Clinton did not call it a witch hunt.

STARR: He may not have used those words, but I'll tell you, he unleashed very powerful hurricane-like forces. I mean it really was unrelenting, and it was also very personal. The Clinton White House went out, and I talk about this, went out after people on my staff and they were going to take them out. I don't mean physically, but they were going to take people out. I mean this -- this was -- as James Stewart said in his book about the whole situation in the wake of the death of Vincent Post Jr., this is blood sport. People play serious.

CAMEROTA: I remember. I mean Paul Begala, who was, of course, one of the president's advisers, went after you. Rahm Emanuel said thing. But do you think it's different now that President Trump himself is going after Robert Mueller and calling it a witch hunt? Bill Clinton didn't use those words.

STARR: Well --

CAMEROTA: The president didn't. Do you think it's different that the president of the United States is now doing this?

STARR: President Clinton had a different style. And there was no Twitter. So there was no social media. I wish the president would stop the tweeting. I wish he would stop the attacks. Again, it does not, to put it mildly, promote confidence in the administration of justice to do that.

But, we have who we have. And again, as I recount in the book, President Clinton just had a very different style. He was very charming, but I tell you, he also had a very, very aggressive campaign -- propaganda campaign that Howard Kurtz rightly called the spin cycle.

CAMEROTA: Do you think that Robert Mueller's investigation is a witch hunt?

STARR: No, I don't. I have concerns and have express concerns about some of the people around Bob, but I have great confidence in Bob as a person of integrity.

CAMEROTA: Your concerns are what about the prosecutors and the team around them?

STARR: Their overt partisanship. You've got a First Amendment right. Don't get me wrong. But I'll tell you, when I was accused, as I was, by the Clinton White House and the Clinton surrogates of being a partisan Republican, I am a Republican, but I had a legal job to do, I brought in guardrails. I made sure that my deputy in charge of the Washington office, in addition to the Little Rock office, was a well- known Democrat. I brought --

CAMEROTA: So you asked people their party affiliation before you hired them?

STARR: No, absolutely not!

CAMEROTA: Then how did you know that he was a Democrat?

STARR: Because these are my friends. I lived in Washington, D.C., forever. So I knew that Mark Tuohy (ph) was a very prominent Democrat. It's just who he was. We were pals. So, in those days, we actually had friends in the other -- in the other party.

CAMEROTA: How quaint!

STARR: Yes. It was a different time.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, look, Robert Mueller is a -- I mean is a Republican. A well-known, lifelong Republican.

STARR: Absolutely. Yes.

CAMEROTA: So are you saying that if he has Democrats on his staff that they can't do the job?

STARR: No, not at all! You're -- I've -- that's an over-broad interpretation. It's when you look at some of the things that, as I understand, this is in the public domain, going to Hillary's party and so forth and the like and some of the -- and that's the problem with social media. We now know so much more about people. And so people need to take that into account. When I say the people, I think prosecutors have to, as we've seen with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page, this does not reflect well, this partisanship. They've got the right to do it, but it doesn't reflect well on the administration of justice.

CAMEROTA: You -- your opinion seems to differ from so many other legal scholars and experts that we've talked about in terms of whether a sitting president can be indicted. You believe he can.

STARR: I do.

CAMEROTA: Why?

STARR: Well, it's first principles. No one is above the rule of law. And I don't think that impeachment is all that it's cracked up to be. And Maxine Waters, with all respect, is absolutely wrong. And one of lessons from my book, Alisyn, is impeachment is hell. You need to find another way to resolve these issues. I mean impeachment is there. It's part of our Constitution. It's important. But we can overuse the constitutional tools, right? You can go to war. You can overuse the war power. So we need to be -- but in any event, first principles, the rule of law, no one is above the law and --

CAMEROTA: Yes. So when Rudy Giuliani says that they -- all you -- all Robert Mueller does is get to write a report, they cannot indict -- these are his words -- at least they acknowledged that to us. So it sounds like Robert Mueller has somehow told that to Rudy Giuliani, they acknowledge that to us, he says.

STARR: Well, I love Rudy and Rudy's got a tool in his toolbox that President Clinton didn't have. Robert Mueller is an officer of the Justice Department. I was an independent counsel under the statute. And the Justice Department policy is you cannot set -- you cannot indict a sitting president.

[06:55:07] CAMEROTA: But you believe that no one is above the law and that even with the findings, whatever Robert Mueller's findings are, that you think that President Trump could be indicted?

STARR: As a matter of constitutional law. But policy, I mean he's got to follow the policy.

CAMEROTA: The book again, "Contempt" by Ken Starr. Thanks so much for sharing your experience with us. Great to have you here in studio.

STARR: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: OK, so the sun is coming up right now along the Carolina coast and we can already see Florence's fury there in the Atlantic Ocean. It's getting a little bit more churned up. So we'll have the latest track, the rainfall, and the storm surge forecasts for you next. Look at that picture.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everything that people have feared is now starting to kick into action.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is going to be an enormous storm. It is going to be devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rainfall rates are going to be staggering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They expect much of this town to be underwater.

[07:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you stay here and try to ride out the storm, you're absolutely not going to be able to get rescued.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm worried about our home. I don't want to see it destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This storm is massive. It is much larger than Hugo was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you're on the coast, there's still time to