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New Day

Calls Grow to Delay Kavanaugh Vote After Accuser Goes Public; 18 Dead, Hundreds Rescued as Flooding Worsens. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired September 17, 2018 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If the Judiciary Committee goes forward with this vote, it would be an insult to every woman in this country.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (D), MAINE: I was very surprised. I'm going to be talking with my colleagues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Kavanaugh has categorically denied the allegations. I think we'll confirm him before October.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're seeing epic flooding in North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what people are dealing with. A dire situation for people here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not seen the worst of the flooding. People need to heed the warning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is one for the record books.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Monday, September 17, 6 a.m. here in New York. Great to have you back here on terra firma with us.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It is great to be back, and man, is there a lot of news all of a sudden this morning.

CAMEROTA: There sure is, especially North Carolina, of course, but first, this morning the Supreme Court confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh has been thrown into uncertainty. There are calls to delay Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation vote after a woman comes forward, claiming that he sexually assaulted her more than three decades ago. She describes details of the alleged assault when the two were teenagers in high school.

Christine Blasey Ford says she feared for her life. "The Washington Post" reports, quote, "While his friend watched, she said Kavanaugh pinned her to a bed on her back and groped her over her clothes, grinding his body against hers and clumsily attempting to pull off her one-piece bathing suit and the clothing she wore over it. When she tried to scream, she said, he put his hand over her mouth." Quote, "I thought he might inadvertently kill me," she said.

Now, Ford is now a 51-year-old research psychologist in Northern California. Quote, "He was trying to attack me and remove my clothing."

BERMAN: Now the timeline of how this went public is crucial. Ford says she believes the assault happened in the summer of 1982. In 2012, she discussed the alleged attack in couples therapy with her husband. One year later she told her individual therapist about it.

In early July, once Kavanaugh's name was on a short list of Supreme Court contenders, but before he was actually nominated, Ford contacted "The Washington Post" through a tip line and reached out to her local member of Congress. After the nomination, Ford sent a letter to the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein.

CAMEROTA: OK. Then Ford then enlisted Debra Katz. She is a well- known Washington lawyer who works on sexual harassment cases, and on her attorney's advice, Ford took a polygraph test last month, administered by a former FBI agent, to try to prove that she is being truthful about her story.

Ford decided to come forward, she says, after several reporters had figured out her identity and started contacting her.

Kavanaugh denies all of these allegations. He says in a statement, quote, "I categorically and unequivocally deny this allegation. I did not do this back in high school or at any time."

Kavanaugh now faces his #MeToo test to reach the Supreme Court. Could his Supreme Court nomination suddenly be in jeopardy, and will President Trump defend Kavanaugh or try to discredit his accuser?

BERMAN: Obviously, the other major news this morning, the deadly and catastrophic flooding in the Carolinas. Florence is now a tropical depression. It is blamed for 18 deaths now, including a 3-month-old baby. Hundreds of people are still trapped by the rising floodwaters. More than 1,000 have already been rescued.

The floods have left some parts of North and South Carolina impassable and with more rain falling. Really, the worst is still to come.

CAMEROTA: OK. So we have so much to talk about. Let's begin with the Kavanaugh controversy.

Joining us now to discuss is CNN chief legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin; CNN senior political analyst John Avlon; and CNN legal analyst and Supreme Court biographer, Joan Biskupic.

OK, great to have all of you. Jeffrey, what do we do with this new information that we have?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's question No. 1. The vote in the Judiciary Committee is scheduled for Thursday, so there's not a lot of time to resolve at least the issue of what to do.

The initial question is does that vote get delayed while it's investigated? Does it get investigated just by the FBI in private, just by Judiciary Committee and its staffers, or are there more public hearings?

CAMEROTA: Should it be delayed, first question?

TOOBIN: You know, when I get elected to the Senate, I will answer that question.

It's very hard to imagine how any sort of credible explanation could take place between now and Thursday, since they are starting from absolute zero. So you know, what is so fascinating about this is that the cultural and political context. We are in the middle of a #MeToo movement. Twenty-seven years, ago Clarence Thomas was confirmed to the Supreme Court notwithstanding the testimony of Anita Hill.

So this does not come out of nowhere, but the facts of the story are out of nowhere; and we don't know who's telling the truth.

BERMAN: In terms of the delay, Chuck Grassley, the chairman of the committee, does not seem inclined to delay. What we've heard, Joan, is that members of the committee staff, both Democrats and Republicans, what Grassley wants them to do is have them talk to both Kavanaugh and Ford today. We don't know what that means, exactly. We don't know if the Democrats will agree to it exactly. Where do you see this going?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN LEGAL ANALYST AND SUPREME COURT BIOGRAPHER: I think it's crucial that both of those individuals get a chance to talk to the senators, the senators get to hear them. Now, there's a question of, you know, do they talk to just staff or do they talk to the senators also?

But right now, we have Christine Ford, through her interview with "The Washington Post" and through her letter, both of which are public now, and we have that one general statement from Judge Kavanaugh. I think that he's going to -- both of them are going to have to, you know, in an individual way, make their cases known.

And that, I think, will unfold rapidly today, probably into tomorrow. But we had so little information about their credibility at this point, and the senators probably do, too, and that will be crucial.

You know, back in 1991, Anita Hill was a very good advocate for herself, and then Clarence Thomas came back firing on all cylinders, too, when they re-opened the hearings. And it was a -- it was a very compelling moment from both sides.

[06:05:16] I think what we're going to see is private -- or know about will be private moments as these two individuals and their surrogates make their cases known over probably the next 24 hours. And then I think it will be up to Senator Grassley, if he feels like he's still getting pressure, which I can't imagine that he won't still be getting pressure to delay, to either just do that or -- or fully re-open the hearings.

CAMEROTA: John, I think this is really fascinating stuff and really delicate stuff.

And I mean, so there's the procedural questions. There's the legal questions, and then there's just the kind of ethical questions of do we hold somebody responsible for what he may have done when he was a minor and stumbling drunk, to use her words, and in high school? Is that a career ruiner 35 years later?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's going to be one of the conversations we have as a country around this. This is going to be a teachable moment.

But I think part of the question is what is the precedent that's being set for Supreme Court justices or for any high office? Supreme Court is different than most other offices: it's a lifetime appointment. If someone is a judge on questions of right or wrong, questions of their character going into their past can apply.

But how much of it is a pattern of behavior, and how much of it is an isolated incident? How much is remembered differently by the two or arguably three people involved? And how much does that matter?

But I would say that folks who try to put the standard in place and the debates we're going to be having need to be conscious of the precedent that's being set, how it would apply to them or future nominees, beyond partisan considerations.

And it will be particularly fascinating to see how senators Collins and Murkowski handle these accusations as more details come out based on the questions that should be had in public.

TOOBIN: Alisyn, one of the questions that you raise is, you know, is what you do as a 17-year-old disqualifying? Can you say, as George W. Bush used to say, "When I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible"?

However, that's not what Brad [SIC] Kavanaugh is saying. Brad [SCI] Kavanaugh is saying -- Brett Kavanaugh -- "It didn't happen at all. There was no incident that took place."

Those defenses, you know, 17-year-olds do stupid things, and it didn't happen at all, those are two different defenses. And it will be interesting to see which one is used going forward.

BERMAN: Let me just read again what is alleged that he did, what Christine Ford has said he did. When she tried to scream, he put his hand over his [SIC] mouth: "I thought he might inadvertently kill me."

If one wants to dismiss that as when he was 17, when he was young and irresponsible, he was just young and irresponsible, I suppose they could make that case. But that's a significant statement, if true.

And Joan, you brought up the parallels with the Anita Hill hearing. I guess, what, 11 Democrats ultimately voted for Clarence Thomas. Two Republicans voted against. The political lines are much different now, to be sure.

I will say Jeff Flake, just to read one statement we haven't read yet. Jeff Flake, who is a Republican on the committee, he has publicly called for a delay of some sort. We don't know exactly how he wants that delay to happen, but he said, "I've made clear that I'm not comfortable moving ahead with the vote on Thursday if we have not heard her side of the story or explored this further. For me, we can't vote until we hear more."

BISKUPIC: You know, that's exactly right. People forget that 11 Democrats crossed over to vote for Clarence Thomas at the time.

And these hearings for Brett Kavanaugh have been so partisan, and the Republican leadership has, you know, they put him on a fast track and withheld some documents. So there's already a bit of suspicion around this -- this nomination, you know, maybe because of him, maybe not because of him.

But we're in such a polarized atmosphere now along with the #MeToo atmosphere, and both of those of, you know, cut in both directions. You know, the math is still on the Republican side in the Senate. But we have yet to hear from Mitch McConnell. And as I said, you know, enough days between now and Thursday that probably we're going to have several different developments.

You know, back in 1991, we also had the racial implications. When Clarence Thomas testified in front of people, he called it a high-tech lynching. It will be interesting to see if Brett Kavanaugh, what kind of statement he comes forward with, or what he says publicly that we all know about that obviously wouldn't, put it in a racial realm but might bring in some things that John is just talking about, the fairness issue, or -- or other elements that have yet to come out.

He has very powerful surrogates working for him right now, and -- and we haven't heard from President Trump, but we know that White House counsel, Don McGahn, and other supporters in the administration are still with him.

[06:10:04] AVLON: Yes. Look, part of the challenge of this conversation is going to be that the president has his own problems in this arena.

The second issue will be, there will be -- if history is any guide -- some effort to question the character of this woman who's come forward. That would be despicable.

But there's also going to be the very real questions about the applicability of past standards and how you deal with high school problems that are imperfectly remembered.

And the Clarence Thomas is tricky, too, because while it's the closest we've got, at issue there was two adults. He was the supervisor at the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission. Anita Hill worked for him, and there was a pattern of harassment that she alleges --

CAMEROTA: Yes. I think that that's a good point. There was a pattern.

TOOBIN: And she was treated miserably by the Senate Judiciary Committee. And, you know, in the 27 years that have followed, every single piece of evidence that has come forward has suggested that she was telling the truth, and he was lying. So I mean, you know, again, I don't know which way that --

BERMAN: This is assault. I'm sorry. Also, the other comparison, though, is this is alleged assault.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: This is alleged assault. I don't know if you would call it attempted rape, but it's alleged a sexual assault. And if you're a remember of the Senate -- and it's not just Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski, and it's not just the women, Joni Ernst, Heidi Heitkamp on the Democratic side, they will have to answer these two questions. No. 1, do you believe the woman? And if the answer there is no, then it's an easy vote. If you don't believe her, it's an easy vote.

But if the answer is yes, I would like to hear them defend the notion that, sure, it was in high school, but this alleged assault isn't disqualifying for someone to sit on the Supreme Court for 35 years.

CAMEROTA: Well, I mean, I think that what John's point is is that, if it was an episode instead of a repeated pattern, and at the moment it sounds like we only have one person who -- sometimes these things, the floodgates open. But that's not what has happened yet. So it was an episode. If he was stumbling drunk and doesn't remember it, and he was a minor, what are we to do with it?

I just think that all of those things make it different than Clarence Thomas.

TOOBIN: And but the other thing is, you know, the way we make determinations, in our legal and, to a certain extent, political system, is we do investigations. And that's not just asking one person and asking the other.

You look at corroboration. You look at documentary evidence. You look at the peoples' characters. I mean, that is how a serious investigation is done. You can't do that by Thursday, especially since Wednesday is where, you know, you will not have a lot of action in Washington. I mean, it's just -- that's a big question, how and whether there is an investigation.

BERMAN: So Joan, I suspect you're going to hear Chuck Grassley saying, "We need to get this done." But my question to you is, you know, what's the rush? We had eight justices for nearly a year.

BISKUPIC: More than a year, for some 400 days.

Here's the other thing, and I'm glad you mentioned it, John, because think of the stakes here, the stakes for the Supreme Court. This is a lifetime appointment. And so many issues that hang in the balance have to do with women's

rights. So it's not just that we're in the #MeToo movement, and we have abortion rights, reproductive rights, all part of what a new Justice Kavanaugh would be ruling on. And that also plays into the context here.

So it's -- the rush -- there's already been such a rush, and I think, to restore some sort of credibility and integrity to the process, it would help Chairman Grassley to pull back and allow some sort of airing, investigation of these -- of this claim.

CAMEROTA: All right. Joan, Jeffrey, John, thank you very much.

We're going to try to get some answers for you ahead on NEW DAY. We are going to speak with the attorney for Kavanaugh's accuser. Her name is Debra Katz. So we'll find out -- she'll be able to fill in some of the blanks for us. We also have the Judiciary Committee -- Democratic Senator Dick Durbin.

BERMAN: Yes, I expect we'll know. I suspect we will know by 10 or 11 a.m. today if this thing will happen on Thursday, one way or the other. Chuck Grassley will come out definitively and say no, though, going forward or not. Pay attention very closely.

The other major story, Hurricane Florence, it is no longer a hurricane, now a tropical depression but dropping so much rain, more than 30 inches of rain. Unimaginable flooding and some of these rivers haven't crested yet. The worst may be yet to come. We have a live report next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:17:56] CAMEROTA: Eighteen people are dead, and the flooding is worsening as the remnants of Hurricane Florence continue to dump torrential rain in the Carolinas.

CNN's Erica Hill is live in hard-hit Fayetteville, North Carolina, with more. What's the situation there, Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Alisyn. Good morning.

You know, where we are today, we were actually hoping to be a little bit further down the road for you. But the flooding has only continued to inch forward.

The good news here, there's a break in the rain, but that has officials concerned, because they don't want anybody looking at this and saying, "Now is the time to go out. I don't have to worry about the flooding."

There has been nonstop rain, including northwest of us, that is coming into the Cape Fear River, and that is only adding to the anxiety for officials here as they wait for more flooding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HILL (voice-over): Rain measured in feet. River levels far above flood stage. Entire towns cut off. Florence pounding the Carolinas, leaving destruction and uncertainty in its wake.

GOV. ROY COOPER (D), NORTH CAROLINA: Floodwaters are still raging across parts of our state. And the risk to life is rising with the angry waters. This storm has never been more dangerous than it is right now.

HILL: Roads in and out of the city of Wilmington, home to nearly 120,000, impassable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For those residents that are trying to get back to Wilmington -- I know there are a lot of them -- we ask you not to come at this time. Every single road coming back into the city of Wilmington, the county of New Hanover, is impassable.

HILL: In many areas, the all-volunteer Cajun Navy stepping up to help along with teams from across the country, working with local officials and crews to answer calls for help. On Sunday more than 900 water rescues in North Carolina alone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As of this morning we have nine helicopters in the air and dozens of shallow-water boats out there assisting people.

HILL: After days of pounding rain, there is little relief in sight.

Lumberton, North Carolina, bracing after water seeps through a patched-up gap in a temporarily levee on Sunday afternoon. The Lumber River expected to crest today above 25 feet, inundating a city still recovering from Hurricane Matthew two years ago.

[06:20:13] The floodwaters engulfing entire neighborhoods and forcing closures on major interstate highways. Officials advising travelers to avoid driving through the state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have not seen the worst of the flooding. People will need to heed the warnings from their local emergency management, experts and stay on dry grounds.

HILL: In Fayetteville, residents in a one-mile radius of both the Little and Cape Fear Rivers are under evacuation orders, the mayor was clear: "This is not the time to be complacent."

(on camera): What's your biggest concern?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest concern is what we see behind this is that the pace in which this water moves is deadly.

HILL (voice-over): South Carolina residents anxious to get home, as well, facing long lines and questions about their future as rivers continue to swell.

Rescues throughout the weekend, ferrying people and pets to safety.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's up, buddy? HILL: Grateful residents moving to higher round. Some unsure when or if they will ever return home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: Of course, in some of the areas further south of us, that's where the water has begun to recede. What it is revealing, what is left behind is a monumental task of cleanup.

Here in Fayetteville, the Cape Fear River during Matthew was at 53 feet. The concerns this time around are that those numbers for this river later this week could crest in the 60-foot range or more. That increases the flooding area exponentially. The upside, officials tell me the technology is much better. They have learned a lot from Matthew.

We're going to get a closer look at some of the damage as the sun comes up for you this morning. And I do want to point out, as well, Alisyn and John, President Trump is expected to be in the region here later this week.

BERMAN: All right. Erica Hill. Erica Hill, down in Fayetteville, thanks so much, Erica, for that report.

What a slow-motion disaster is unfolding, really, before our eyes. It wasn't just the hurricane and the surge but this rain just piling up in all those rivers.

CAMEROTA: Right. It's still happening. I mean, you're back. The worst appears to be over because of the correspondents aren't standing and, you know, being battered by the wind and the rain. But now, it's start -- all of the flooding is starting. And it could get even worse.

BERMAN: That's right. The rivers will crest, not for a few days.

Back with us, John Avlon; and now we're joined by CNN senior political reporter Nia-Malika Henderson; and CNN senior political analyst Ron Brownstein, senior editor at "The Atlantic."

Well, the president is going later this week. From what we can see so far, the federal and state response has been as good as it can be. We don't know until, obviously, some of the water goes down here.

But politically speaking, from the very beginning, before this storm even hit, the president injected an unbelievable amount of politics in this with his statement that 3,000 people didn't die in Puerto Rico, which was surprising that he chose to make that fight as this storm was bearing down on the Carolinas. More surprising that his FEMA administrator, Brock Long, chose to support what the president said.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, there's response after the fact and there's response before the fact. When we look at all of these record storms year after year, the idea of unilaterally disarming and dismantling all our efforts to deal with climate change is something that you really cannot ignore as part of this story. You're looking at the hurricanes of the east or wildfires in the west.

This may be the summer when we stop thinking about that as something in the future and something that is happening now. But on the question -- on the question of the deaths, to me, you know, wouldn't it be nice if there was an independent branch of government that could independently examine what happened in Puerto Rico, and give us an authoritative response --

CAMEROTA: This is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) talk. Ron, what could you be referring to?

BROWNSTEIN: Could it be -- could it be that Congress could have systematically examined what happened, why the public systems failed for so long in the aftermath of the hurricane, what the federal response was and what you can learn from it, but they have completely abdicated their responsibilities for any kind of oversight.

Paul Ryan, in a statement, I think, will be the epitaph on his tenure during the Trump years, said, you know, it's really no one -- it's really no one's fault about -- about Puerto Rico. And the fact that Congress has not stepped in to provide any real analysis of what happened is the reason why you can even begin to have this conversation from the president.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Here is Paul Ryan. We will hear him in his own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There is no reason to dispute these numbers, and it's a function of this is a devastating storm that hit an isolated island, and that's really no one's fault. That is just what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He's the master of saying two things at once. So he's saying there's no reason to dispute these numbers, President Trump.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL WRITER: Right.

CAMEROTA: So how dare you suggest that 3,000 people haven't -- weren't killed, but it's nobody's fault.

HENDERSON: Yes, on one hand pushing back on Trump's assertions about the death toll, but also essentially saying, "Trump, it's not really your fault. It's not the federal government's fault. It's not local and state government's fault," even though some of the folks in Puerto Rico have said, "Listen, it's everybody's fault. There were failures at every level."

[06:25:05] There were also failures. It was known, right, that Puerto Rico had weak infrastructure going in, so you would think, given that, the response would have been up to par, rather than these sort of excuses now, basically blaming the poor infrastructure on the poor response.

AVLON: And look, the president released this tweet storm on the day a new hurricane was bearing down, denying the official death toll and blaming it on partisan politics and Democrats.

The official death toll for a long time, as Al, you pointed out at the time, is 64. The now -- the most recent number, the George Washington study is nearly 3,000, roughly equivalent to the number of people we lost on 9/11. That gap is a scandal. There should be congressional inquiries.

And when Brock Long goes on TV this weekend and says, "Well, I don't really" -- quote, "I don't know why the studies were done." Well, the study, the George Washington study was done, because the government of Puerto Rico commissioned it to find out the real death toll.

CAMEROTA: Because so many in Puerto Rico were reporting that their loved ones had died as a result of the storm.

AVLON: Correct. Right. Correct.

CAMEROTA: And so that is very curious and troubling.

AVLON: The noble fact --

CAMEROTA: "I don't know why these studies were done." I mean, and just for the methodology, just so that people understand, these researchers went. They talked to doctors, health officials, funeral home directors, hospital directors, forensic pathologists. They did not count people who died of old age. That was not counted, President Trump, who tried to say that maybe some of these people you can't count everybody. They looked at the death records from the seven months prior for those six months, and saw a spike of 2,975 people.

HENDERSON: I mean, this kind of academic research, he's undertaken in a really nearly political fashion. Right? I mean, there are reviews, peer reviews and all sorts of things that go on when people look at the sort of large-scale deaths, and that's what went on here.

I mean, I think one of the things you obviously see is Donald Trump taking over the Republican Party, right? You know, Paul Ryan basically being mealy-mouthed in his response has to do with the fact that Donald Trump was mealy-mouthed and offensive in terms of the way he characterized the deaths.

The same thing with Brock Long, right? Donald Trump is his boss. He can't really come out and say that Donald Trump was wrong in terms of those death camps.

BROWNSTEIN: The Ryan -- the Ryan quote is just the perfect epitaph for just the way he's dealt with the entire presidency.

The momentary -- the momentary distress followed by instant absolution. That is his pattern.

(CROSSTALK) BERMAN: -- for years to come, instead of "Profiles in Courage," "Profiles in Paul Ryan." Which you have not to take a stand on an issue.

I want to go back to the Brett Kavanaugh nomination for one moment, because I am fascinated by what happens for particularly these Democratic senators. Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Donnelly. Joe Manchin, Claire McCaskill, these people in these red states, and their vote had been seen as difficult on the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh.

Is it easier now? Can they now look at this. We've got a reason to vote against him, or -- or Manchin and Heitkamp, for whom I think it was probably an easier yes vote than a lot of people are giving credit for. Are they now in a more difficult position?

HENDERSON: I think everybody at this point is in a more difficult position. If you have the Republicans on the one hand want to push this thing forward, that's probably a dangerous proposition. If they open this thing back up and have her testify, we'll figure out if she wants to testify. At some point, that's also a difficult proposition. And right, you've got those three Democrats, Manchin, Donnelly and Heitkamp, who did vote for Gorsuch and --

BROWNSTEIN: If she says she wants -- if her attorney says this morning that she wants to testify, how do you not give her her day in front of the American people. We're talking about a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court.

In the CNN poll before any of this happened, given the shadow of Donald Trump, Republicans are trailing among women, 60 to 36 in a generic ballot, particularly among college-educated white women, and they are facing, potentially, the widest deficit they have ever had in a mid-term election in exit polls.

Against that backdrop, can you really say that, if this woman is willing to testify, and you will not give her her day.

CAMEROTA: And what if she isn't?

BROWNSTEIN: That's a --

BERMAN: She has wanted to remain anonymous this whole time.

BROWNSTEIN: But she's not anonymous any longer.

BERMAN: They kept her name quiet. Dianne Feinstein said she kept her name quiet this whole time. Because you don't even --

CAMEROTA: And there are phone calls that lawmakers will be having with her. What if she just prefers to tell them privately on a phone call? Then how will the American public know?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, the FBI has been known to investigate questions like this before.

CAMEROTA: Again. You relying on history. BROWNSTEIN: Wouldn't it be useful -- wouldn't it be useful if there

was an actual agency that could do some of the things we are --

BERMAN: I don't know what's happened here, but what's happened here is FBI took this. They put the letter in the file. They sent it back to the White House and said this is part of Brett Kavanaugh's background, full stop. That's it.

BROWNSTEIN: People answer questions under oath, and it may be different than what they say to the press.

AVLON: Yes, but it's going to be very difficult to unring this bell. She has come forward finally, reluctantly, not her first choice. And I agree, that if she wants to testify, it's going to be very difficult.

Republicans are going to try to push this through politically, because they want to win before the midterms, but that win could come at the cost of even deepening the gender gap that exists, where very little credibility is.

And look, adolescents and alcohol. It's a complicated conversation. But this is -- but I don't think Republicans can sweep this under the rug where we are as a country. And I think that would have -- the political backlash would be far worse than whatever credit they'd get for pushing through the nomination.