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Trump Defends Order to Declassify Documents; Florida Senate Race; Smart's Kidnapper to be Freed; Ford Wants FBI Probe. Aired 8:30- 9a ET

Aired September 19, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That if he were FBI Director Wray or DNI Coats that perhaps this would be a demand that would be worth quitting over. What do you think?

DAVID KRIS, FORMER ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: Well, that's a very difficult question that each official has to answer for themselves. They have to figure out, you know, can they do more good than harm by remaining in place? Is it appropriate to remain in place? Do you have to resign over such an extreme demand? I don't envy them, that is for sure, and I -- and I don't like the situation they're being placed in. I don't think it's good for them and I don't think it's good for the country.

BERMAN: And just, very quickly, last question on this subject. Do you feel as if declassifying this, seeing those 20 pages of the redacted FISA or somehow seeing James Comey's texts on the Russia investigation, is that something that could threaten, in your mind, national security?

KRIS: Well, without having seen them, I think it certainly could. I have seen a lot of FISA applications in my day and they often include very sensitive intelligent sources and methods. And if you reveal those sources and methods, you can compromise them, you can lead to loss of intelligence. There are all kinds of harm that follow from declassifying FISA applications potentially. And it is also, I think, a dangerous precedent to start declassifying internal documents about ongoing investigations. That, too, has been a red line to the Department of Justice for a long time. So this is -- this is potentially very dangerous. We'll have to see what actually --

BERMAN: David, with your patience around forbearance here, we do have a little bit of breaking news.

An interview the president did that we're just catching wind of with Hill TV, and apparently he goes off at length, again, as he has in the past, on his Attorney General Jeff Sessions, whom he does not think is doing a good job. And in language I haven't seen quite before he says, I don't have an attorney general, he says. It's very sad. He actually goes on to say, I'm not happy at the border. I'm not happy with numerous things, not just this. I think he means the Russia investigation.

But he says I do not have an attorney general. KRIS: Yes.

BERMAN: He's been upset with Jeff Sessions since he recused himself from the Russia investigation.

KRIS: Well, look, I think that the president is a man of many words and many colorful words. What I think he seems to be saying there is that I personally don't have an attorney general who will serve and look out for my personal interests. And, indeed, that's correct and as it should be.

The attorney general is a public servant. The president has his private lawyers that he has defending him. The attorney general is not the president's personal lawyer, and the president would do well to remember that.

BERMAN: Yes, he criticizes Jeff Sessions' performance during his confirmation process, said he gave confusing answers, answers that should have been easily answered.

KRIS: Yes, well, you know, having been through the confirmation process myself, I can have some sympathy. I don't mean that I have a great brief to file for Jeff Sessions. But, again, if the president doesn't like Jeff Sessions, then he can remove him from office. But the attorney general is the head of the Justice Department and is a public servant. He is not a personal servant to the president of the United States in his individual capacity. So if the president doesn't like him, he can remove him. If he's prepared to pay the political price that that might entail. But he should not get confused that these cabinet officers are there to serve him personally.

BERMAN: David Kris, thank you for joining us. Thanks for waking up early from Seattle. Appreciate it.

KRIS: My pleasure.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John, now to this update. The woman who helped kidnap and abuse Elizabeth Smart is set to be freed from prison today. Why? A live report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:37:38] CAMEROTA: OK, now to the big Senate race in Florida. Republican Governor Rick Scott challenging incumbent Democratic Senator Bill Nelson in one of the most expensive and competitive races in the country.

CNN's Ryan Nobles is live in Orlando, Florida, with more.

What's the latest there, Ryan?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Alisyn, there's no doubt that these candidates in Florida would rather be talking about local issues. But there is so much happening in Washington. And this seat is so vital in determining who controls the Senate after the midterms, they really have no choice. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES (voice over): It's one of the hottest Senate races in the country. As a result, big issues in Washington quickly become front and center in Florida.

NOBLES (on camera): Do you believe Dr. Ford?

GOV. RICK SCOTT (R), FLORIDA: Well, I think we have to take her seriously. So I think it's -- I think it's important to hear and then we -- then if Judge Kavanaugh, who's got -- you know, he's got a good record -- has a very good record as a judge, we need to have him -- give him the same opportunity.

NOBLES (voice over): Governor Rick Scott, the GOP nominee for Senate, attempting to strike a balance on the controversy surrounding Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh.

SCOTT: Senator Feinstein had these allegations months ago. They should have been investigated months ago. So I think it's a slick trick right before there was going to be a vote. But you have to take it seriously.

NOBLES: The Kavanaugh controversy is just one example of how this competitive race is tied to the whims of Washington. Even though Florida is a state where local issues are very important, this seat, which could play a big role in determining who controlling the Senate, is vital to the national conversation. And that means dealing with the impact of President Trump.

SCOTT: If it's good for Florida, I'm going to, you know, agree with the president. If it's bad for Florida, I'm going to -- I'm going to oppose the president.

NOBLES: Scott's opponent, Democratic incumbent Bill Nelson, has worked hard to tie the governor to Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

NOBLES: Running an ad in Spanish targeting the state's large Hispanic population that only features pictures of the governor with the president. Florida Democrats believe no matter how hard he tries, Scott cannot escape the specter of Trump.

JUAN PENALOSA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Governor Scott is firmly on the side of Governor Scott and Donald Trump. I don't think that he has -- he has stood up to the president when it mattered.

SCOTT: Thank you, Mr. President.

NOBLES: Scott, who was once happy to appear by the president's side, has no plans to invite President Trump to Florida. But Scott said he would have no problem campaigning with the president whose approval ratings are better in the sunshine state than they are nationally. Scott, who recently broke with the president over the death toll in Puerto Rico from Hurricane Maria, insists voters will judge him on his record, not how he deals with Trump.

[08:40:11] SCOTT: I'm going to see if I can make Washington responsive. So -- but if you go around the state, it's local issues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's take advantage of that!

NOBLES: But there is evidence of Democratic energy on the ground in Florida. They are running candidates in ever congressional House district and have seen a big uptick in candidates in their state legislative races. State officials believe that will bring more Democratic voters to the polls, helping Nelson.

And Scott, who has kept up a rigorous campaign schedule, was met with a big group of protesters at an event in Naples as part of a lengthy bus tour across the state.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NOBLES: And they're also using these national issues to attack each other. During our interview yesterday with Governor Scott, he said that Senator Nelson was avoiding a meeting with Brett Kavanaugh. When we asked the Nelson campaign about that, Senator Nelson actually called me on the phone to rebut that claim, saying that he's tried to set up a meeting with Kavanaugh on four different occasions. Interestingly, though, John, neither Scott nor Kavanaugh will tell us whether they believe they should support Kavanaugh's nomination to the United States Supreme Court.

John.

BERMAN: All right, Ryan Nobles for us in Florida. Fascinating what gets you a phone call from a senator.

So one of the two people responsible for kidnapping Elizabeth Smart when she was a teenager in 2002 is set to be released today from prison. Smart says she fears for her safety and the well-being of the public now that Wanda Barzee is being freed. Our Scott McLean is live at the state prison in Draper, Utah, with the very latest here.

Scott.

SCOTT MCLEAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey, John. Seventy-two-year- old Wanda Barzee, she is set to walk out of this women's state prison at some point today. She was eligible for release as of midnight local time, though there are no signs so far that she's actually left. When she does, she will be on supervised release, meaning probation, for the next five years. She will likely live alone and she'll have a laundry list of conditions, including mental health treatment. But she won't have to wear an ankle monitor.

Now, she was originally scheduled for release in 2024 until the state parole board realized that it had actually miscalculated her sentence. This all caught Elizabeth Smart by surprise. She says that Barzee has not been taking part of her treatment and therapy inside of prison. She also says that she's still carrying around this book written by Brian David Mitchell, her husband, who actually kidnapped Smart at knife point back in 2002. This is what Smart said about Barzee last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH SMART, ABDUCTED AT 14: I do believe she's a threat. She is a woman who has six children and yet could conspire to kidnap a 14-year- old girl and not only sit next to her while being raped, but encourage her husband to continue to rape me. So do I believe that she is dangerous? Yes. But not just to me. I believe that she is a danger and a threat to any vulnerable person in our community, which is why our community should be worried.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCLEAN: And Barzee's lawyer said that her medical treatment inside of prison is private. She also said that there's no evidence that she's a threat. I did ask a correctional officer this morning about Barzee, who said she's pretty normal.

John. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Scott, thank you very much.

John, as you know, Elizabeth Smart is one of the most plain spoken, yet strong and impressive women I have ever interviewed.

BERMAN: Ever.

CAMEROTA: And so I take what she -- her warning to the community very seriously.

Our thanks there to our reporter.

Meanwhile, the woman accusing Judge Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault wants an FBI investigation before she will testify in front of the Senate. But Republicans do not seem inclined to change the timing. So, is her request reasonable? How will they make a decision without all the information? Our panel of experts, next.

BERMAN: But first in this week's "Turning Points," at age 50, Vivian Stancil did not know how to swim and she got a tough diagnosis that changed everything.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VIVIAN STANCIL, RETIRED TEACHER: When I was younger, for woman of color, swimming was taboo. At the age of 19, I was told that I had retinitis pigmentosa. I don't see anything.

Before I started to swim, I had depression, no motivation. I had high blood pressure and diabetes. I was 319 pounds.

A doctor told me I was going to die. So I start swimming. I was petrified. It wasn't as bad as I thought. And I asked my coach, could I do it again.

I lost over 100 pounds. I have won over 275 medals at the local and state level at the Senior Olympic Games.

GARRET SHIMKO, SWIM COACH, RIVERSIDE AQUATICS ASSOCIATION: For anyone who starts at that age, where Vivian is right now is incredible. It's just that constant drive that she has and she keeps pushing herself.

[08:45:04] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who's ready to swim? Is that why we're here?

STANCIL: My goal is to get every child in the Riverside area that don't know how to swim where they can learn how to survive without drowning. We are here for a purpose, to encourage one another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Christine Blasey Ford, the woman accusing Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault, says the FBI should investigate her claims before she agrees to testify before the Senate. But Republicans are pushing for a Monday hearing.

Joining us now, we have CNN political analysts Kirsten Powers and CNN political commentators Margaret Hoover and Alice Stewart.

Ladies, great to have you here for this investigation.

[08:50:02] So, Margaret, what do you think of Christine Blasey Ford's condition that she will testify, but first she would like the FBI to investigate it.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I can certainly understand her wanting the FBI to investigate. The timing of all of this, if you have an honest conversation about the timing, cannot be seen without screaming (INAUDIBLE) politics on everybody's part. Republicans have a reason for caring about timing. Democrats have a reason for caring about timing. Brett Kavanaugh has a reason for caring about timing. Christine Ford has a reason for caring about timing. All of these considerations have to be taken into consideration in conflicts (ph).

CAMEROTA: But isn't her reason that she wants to be prepared?

HOOVER: That's certainly fine, but that doesn't -- isn't taken in a vacuum, OK? She deserves absolute due process and fairness. So does Brett Kavanaugh. And Democrats, by the way, of course want to slow this down. They have every incentive to slow this down. They have, you know, Senate seats up in three states that they want to protect senators from having to take a vote on this. Republicans don't want to lose a day because every day gone by is a day that they could lose their nominee, and, by the way, they could also lose the president's support for their nominee. So all of these things need to be taken into consideration and not in a vacuum.

CAMEROTA: And so, Kirsten, does that mean that Christine Blasey Ford should show up on Monday and answer questions from lawmakers or no?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I don't think -- I wouldn't if I was here because I think the Republicans have made it pretty clear that they are just trying to check a box and they want to move on and they're not really interested in a real investigation. You have now two people that she has said were there. Now, they both have told, you know, the members of Congress that this didn't happen. But they should be put under oath and asked about this. I would think Republicans would want to do that if these people are going to exonerate Brett Kavanaugh. So I think that, at a minimum, should happen.

There should be an investigation. It's not true that the FBI doesn't investigate these things. They did it with Anita Hill. So Republicans need to stop saying that.

And I want to say about this idea that somehow the Democrats are doing something wrong by violating process. They say that that's not what happened. I don't want to argue about that.

I will say that even if that is what they're doing, there's nothing wrong with it. The Republicans changed the rules of the game. They cannot complain about process after what they did with Merrick Garland. You reap what you sow. So even if the Democrats are doing that, sorry, you should have thought about that before you basically stole a Supreme Court seat.

CAMEROTA: So, Alice, if the lawmakers only have Brett Kavanaugh's side, and we know already that he has issued a blanket denial, if that's all they have on Monday, can they move forward with the confirmation process?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it would be a very risky move to do so. That's why I think it's even more important that we hear from all sides. I think -- I can't imagine the pain and anguish Dr. Ford is going through, and we have to take that into consideration. But it is important for her to be able to tell exactly what happened and what she remembers. And we need to point out that Senate Grassley has made it clear, it doesn't matter the form or the venue, but we just need the information. He's offered to do it over the phone, in private, in public, with staff, in any way that she feels most comfortable. And we need to do so.

And I want to give her, her time. We need to hear from hear. She needs to be heard. She needs to be believed. But at this time, we have her story, and then we have Judge Kavanaugh, who unequivocally denies what she is saying. We have PJ Smith, who has come out late yesterday, who was named in her letter, who says he has no knowledge of such party, and we also have Mark Judge, who says he has no recollection of this.

So as it stands now, we have three people that say this didn't happen and Dr. Ford who says it did. So, in my view, it is in her best interest to get her story out there.

CAMEROTA: So -- but you mean she should show up on Monday?

STEWART: I don't care if it's Saturday, Sunday or Monday or when, I think she needs to tell her story. And I'm all for -- I was all for having this on Thursday. I'm all for having it on Monday.

CAMEROTA: Even without an investigation?

STEWART: But if we don't -- if we don't -- if we don't have the information --

CAMEROTA: So even before an investigation?

STEWART: If we don't have the information, I think we need to hold off until we get it. This is so critical. This is so important. This is a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court. And in my view it's more important to get it done right than to get it done right now.

CAMEROTA: Right, but therein lies the rub, Margaret, which is that we -- even if she testifies on Monday, and Brett Kavanaugh testifies on Monday, we still might not have all the information if the FBI doesn't investigate the other people who were there.

HOOVER: This is true. This has to be weighed in consideration with all of the other political forces at play. If there are a way for the investigate -- FBI to expedite an investigation to look at this very quickly so that they could move towards a vote quickly, that might be one way to do it.

CAMEROTA: They're not doing it at all. I mean they're --

HOOVER: Let me just -- let me just say, the way we're -- we just have to also be very careful here because of course we're in a matter of a course correction. This Me Too movement and Time's Up and women have been systemically repressed for centuries. And there is a -- there is a pendulum swinging the other way. And in that process, we -- I think it behooves all of us to be clear-eyed and careful as we move forward.

[08:55:06] And this is so steeped in politics, OK, that it -- all cooler heads must try to find a way to make sure that she has her time, but also make sure that Brett Kavanaugh has a fair hearing. And let's just -- I just want to raise one other point about Brett Kavanaugh. A man who I happen to know personally. I have met him. But I worked in the Bush White House. I know that he is of high integrity and character.

Do you remember what they said about Rob Porter because of the FBI investigations? This is the White House staff secretary who had a quote/unquote woman problem, OK?

CAMEROTA: What -- who said that?

HOOVER: That is what the chief of staff apparently had said about Rob Porter. Remember he had a woman problem quote/unquote. Brett Kavanaugh has had -- because of his FBI check, they knew that he had abuse of woman problems (ph). Brett Kavanaugh has had six FBI investigations over the course of his life. There would be some other semblance of some other degree of problem with women if this were a -- if this were a problem.

CAMEROTA: OK.

HOOVER: Consistently in Brett Kavanaugh's past. CAMEROTA: Kirsten, a few seconds left. Your final word.

POWERS: I mean there's not enough time to rebut everything that Margaret just said. So I mean I just -- I just take issue with almost everything that she just said. First of all, who doesn't have cool heads? Nobody's -- there's nothing -- it's not -- you don't have not a cool head if you think that there should be an investigation. If anything, the Republicans, this made up, like, we have to do this now thing, it's just a made up thing because that's a political decision. So every -- every -- everyone's making -- well, everyone --

HOOVER: It's a political decision to release this, to have this come down right now at the last minute. Let's also --

POWERS: Margaret, I just sat here and listened to you just go on and basically smear this woman and now I don't even have time to respond.

HOOVER: Dianne -- I am not smearing a woman and you know that.

POWERS: OK. I just got wrapped (ph), so --

HOOVER: Dianne Feinstein had this letter since July.

STEWART: It's also important the committee -- the committee didn't find the same --

POWERS: You just basically said you know him and he didn't do it. And that's irrelevant and you know that it's irrelevant. But I just thought that was (INAUDIBLE) response.

HOOVER: No, I was saying I know him to be a person of high integrity and character.

STEWART: The committee will --

POWERS: But what does that have to do anything? What does that mean? Because you know him, that that means he didn't do this? I mean I just want to say, I also am not saying that he did this. I don't know. I'm actually interested in getting the people who may have been in the room on the record and under oath, not just, you know, not just telling people that it didn't happen. And so I'm not actually saying that he definitely did it. I don't know. I'm inclined to believe her. But I don't think people who want to hear what she has to say and want an investigation don't have cool heads.

CAMEROTA: I'm unwrapping all of you at the moment and we have a little bit more time.

Alice, where do you fall on this?

STEWART: Look, the committee understands the significance of this, not just in the Me Too movement that we're in, but in the Supreme Court nominee process that we're in. They will give this the attention and the care and the respect and the reverence that it deserves in getting to the truth. In my view, this will be based on her memory of what happened more than three decades ago and members of the committee can find that out just as well as the FBI can.

POWERS: Right, but if it's so --

CAMEROTA: Can they?

STEWART: I think it's important to do so.

CAMEROTA: Can they, Alice? I mean you seem to have a lot more confidence in the members of the committee than some people do. I mean they are not, you know, career investigators. They're politicians.

STEWART: Right, but this is not a matter of going through evidence. This is a matter of going through her memory of what happened during that time. And they understand the significance of this. And many of them already understand we have to deal with this with caution, and we need to do it with the respect that it deserves. And they are committed to doing so. And it's important, as we said, Donald Trump tweeted something very true last night, that many people voted for him, myself included, specifically for the Supreme Court nominee.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

STEWART: And those members of the committee and senators up for re- election understand they have to get this right. Their base and the American people -- the American people want them to get it right.

CAMEROTA: Yes, but -- I understand that that's the goal, but I guess I just don't understand how, if it's her word against his word, the committee is going to have enough information to decide.

Kirsten, your thoughts?

POWERS: Yes, no, I think that's exactly rights. You just have two people telling stories, which is why there needs to be an investigation. And why -- what -- why don't Republicans want there to be an investigation. You have people who she says were there. They say that they weren't there. Just put them under oath and do some sort of an investigation.

I've said before, I think this is very difficult. This is very old memories. I think it's unlikely that we'll ever get an absolute, you know, be absolutely positive unless these people go under oath and tell a different story. That would definitely change things.

And so I just think we have to try. We have to send a message that we take these things very seriously. It's not just, oh, he was 17 and, you know, boys will be boys. This is a serious allegation. And, if true, he can't be on the Supreme Court. And I think that this is something that I don't -- I don't think the Republicans are taking seriously. I mean you have -- you have members on the Judiciary Committee saying like she's mixed up. I mean, that's not somebody who's giving her a fair hearing.

CAMEROTA: OK, final word. In our final seconds now.

STEWART: No, I do -- CAMEROTA: Sorry, Alice, I'm going to Margaret.

[08:59:51] HOOVER: No, I think it's entirely appropriate. I think this should be expedited, though, because, just keep in mind, I think the FBI can look at this and the FBI can look at this quickly because we all know every day this goes by this is -- this is also a Democrat -- the Democrats have every interest and every -- a new day going by to wake up and have a new excuse for a delay. So that has to be balanced in fairness