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What Happens To Russia Investigation If Rosenstein Is Ousted?; Brett Kavanaugh Gives Unprecedented Interview Ahead Of Hearing; President Trump To Tout Warmed Relations With North Korea In U.N. Speech; U.S. And South Korea Sign Revised Trade Agreement. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired September 25, 2018 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] ALBERTO GONZALES, DEAN, BELMONT UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF LAW, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: -- the future of the Department of Justice.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Do you think it would be a loss for the Russia investigation if Rosenstein either resigns or is removed?

GONZALES: Potentially, but I I think it's also quite possible that things will simply continue. That the person who steps in as the acting attorney general will simply continue the mandate set forth by Rod Rosenstein and Bob Mueller will be allowed to continue his investigation.

And I, for one, am in -- I'm in the side that believes that the investigation should be allowed to continue to conclusion. I think that there are facts here the American people deserve to know about what Russia did in connection with the 2016 election and what they -- what they continue to try to do in upcoming elections.

BERMAN: Do you think Congress needs to step in to protect the Russia investigation?

GONZALES: I'm not sure that Congress needs to step in at this time. Again, there's quite possible that the person that comes in if Rod leaves -- and I think that's far from certain -- that the person that comes in will continue the investigation under the current mandate.

BERMAN: And we just don't know. That is uncertain.

Let me ask you about this other area that is very in the news and that has to do with Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh and the interview he gave to Fox News last night. I don't know if you had a chance to see it. I'm sure by this point you've either heard about it or seen clips.

Just your general reaction.

GONZALES: Well, I know Brett and let me just say to your viewers I'm biased because Brett was one of my lawyers.

And all this has been very painful for me when I think about Brett and his family because everything that's been reported in terms of the accusations -- that's not consistent with what I know about Brett Kavanaugh, the man that I know. And, of course, I can't speak to what happened 36 years ago.

But I think this has been disappointing. I think everyone agrees that this man is well-qualified, and I think that anyone who has worked with Brett views him as a person of great character and integrity.

And I think Brett made the calculation that this was something that he needed to do -- to go on the air and just make sure that his views and his position were clearly understood by the American people.

BERMAN: You do acknowledge you don't know what happened 35 -- or than 36 years ago.

Do you think it's irrelevant? I mean, he has been accused of sexual assault now by two women, Christine Blasey Ford and Debbie Ramirez in "The New Yorker." That's a story that CNN can't corroborate.

But if those stories are true do you think they are relevant to his confirmation?

GONZALES: No. I think these kinds of accusations -- there ought to be some kind of examination of it. And again, I don't want to comment on the women.

I can say something about the Democrats in connection with this process because I have been the subject of attacks by Democrats for purely political reasons when I served as attorney general, so I know how this game works and I think a lot of it has to do with politics.

And I think some of it also has to do with respect to the Merrick Garland treatment --

BERMAN: For sure.

GONZALES: -- which I am on record saying that Merrick Garland was treated unfairly, even though I do agree that I think Neil Gorsuch is a great choice for the Supreme Court.

But I think there's a lot of politics involved here.

And I -- you know, I'm looking forward to the hearing. I think this is an opportunity for the American people to get a better understanding of actually what happened here and what's really important in moving forward with this nomination.

BERMAN: You brought up Merrick Garland. I think Democrats absolutely feel why should we give an inch here when Merrick Garland didn't even get a hearing when he was nominated, and all he was accused of was being appointed by President Obama.

You said you do think the matter needs to be looked into. What reason is there not to have the FBI go and ask a few questions at this point? It happened during the Clarence Thomas nominations.

GONZALES: Well, that's a decision to be made by the chairman of the Judiciary Committee. And as far as I know and as far as I understand --

BERMAN: But what do you think? But what do you think? You obviously have a tremendous amount of experience in this field.

Do you think that it would be helpful to have the FBI go ask some questions?

GONZALES: You know, I think for something that happened recently there may be an opportunity to learn facts.

But I don't know whether or not having the FBI involved here -- and I don't know enough about the situation to make this kind of judgment as to whether or not it would make sense. Is it a wise use of time for the FBI to go out and ask questions of the people that were involved?

We have statements from the people that have already been involved. I'm assuming that they would not change those statements in being questioned by the FBI.

I don't know whether or not we're going to gather any additional information for an incident that happened 36 years ago.

BERMAN: Alberto Gonzales, thanks for being with us. Really appreciate the chance to speak to you and also your honesty about where you sit given your relationships with the people involved. Thank you.

GONZALES: You bet -- thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

President Trump is set to address world leaders today at the United Nations. Last year, you'll remember, he made headlines by going after North Korea. What will happen this time?

Ian Bremmer -- he's here on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:38:19] CAMEROTA: OK. In just hours, President Trump will address world leaders at the United Nations General Assembly.

Now, last year, his speech became fiery. It took aim at North Korea. But since then his tone has radically changed, so let's compare and contrast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime.

If it is forced to defend itself or its allies we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea. I see tremendous enthusiasm on behalf of Chairman Kim for making a deal. The relationship is very good. In fact, in some ways, it's extraordinary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He went from singing "Rocket Man" to "Your Song" for those -- for those who know Elton John.

CAMEROTA: Who know Elton John and would like to hum along with us.

Joining us now is Ian Bremmer. He is the president of the Eurasia Group and author of "Us Vs. Them: The Failure of Globalism." Ian, great to see you.

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, TIME MAGAZINE, AUTHOR, "US VS. THEM: THE FAILURE OF GLOBALISM": Great to see you, guys.

CAMEROTA: OK. So since -- let's just talk about what's happened in that year with North Korea. Let's start there.

So the president and Kim Jong Un have become friendly. They've become pen pals.

In terms of denuclearization --

BREMMER: Yes.

CAMEROTA: -- or something substantial, what has happened in this past year?

BREMMER: Look, there has been one summit. It was historic and breakthrough. There has been an enormous amount of diplomatic engagement between the North Koreans and the Chinese -- and even more so, the South Koreans.

Before that speech, Kim Jong Un was seen as the most reclusive leader out there. Now he actually can talk to the press internationally -- real time without prep. So there has been an extraordinary change in the way all of us are thinking about North Korea.

Have we moved towards denuclearization? No. Have we moved towards reducing the tensions on the Peninsula, less concern about the South Korean economy, more capacity to actually spend time thinking about engaging in diplomacy? The answer is yes.

[07:40:14] And I do believe that there is more room for international engagement all around North Korea. The Americans are not going to be driving that conversation. It's overwhelmingly going to be China and South Korea, and that's part of the challenge.

BERMAN: We heard from former chairman Mike Rogers, formerly with the Intelligence Community, who said though that for more to happen between the U.S. and North Korea -- for the president to sit down for a second summit -- BREMMER: Yes.

BERMAN: -- you've got to get something concrete from the North Koreans in terms of denuclearization -- whatever that means.

And we've also heard from David Sanger who had a great piece in "The New York Times" yesterday. The concern this time around isn't that the president will be too hard and too fiery in his rhetoric, it's that he'll give away too much.

BREMMER: Right, and that's a concern of National Security adviser John Bolton and others.

I do think that the last meeting between Kim Jong Un and President Moon in South Korea -- the meeting was in Pyongyang -- did open the door for some concrete discussions, saying that they are prepared to allow international inspectors in as they dismantle an ICBM test site, as well as talking about the potential dismantling of active nuclear sites. They have been only building their nuclear weapons capability over the past few months.

Now, for Trump -- remember, the initial red line on North Korea was not about nukes. It was about ICBMs that could hit the American homeland -- the 48 in the continent.

If Kim Jong Un is prepared to say hey, I don't actually need ICBMs, and if you're willing to reduce sanctions or you're willing to step- by-step engage in sort of formally ending the war, recognition diplomatically of my regime, I can get there.

I think that is a deal that the South Koreans would like to see. They'd be happy to broker. Lord knows an embattled politically President Moon wants to show some wins here and he has a hard time doing it because of American sanctions.

So let's not pretend that there's nothing that can happen here. If you're only looking for denuclearization, Trump will fail like every American president has failed.

If you're willing to use that as an opportunity to move towards something in between, then Trump is going to have to back done. But he's also going to have to implement and execute on details, something he doesn't do not only well but really, at all. He'll have to let Pompeo and others actually move the needle for him.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about what to expect today.

BREMMER: Sure.

CAMEROTA: So it sounds like the president might be trying to use the same playbook from last year and see if it works with Iran. So here are the compare and contrast messages.

BREMMER: Sure.

CAMEROTA: In July, the president tweeted this to Iranian President Rouhani.

"NEVER EVER (in all capitals) threaten the United States again or you will suffer consequences the likes of which few throughout history have ever suffered before. We are no longer a country that will stand for your demented words of violence and death. Be cautious!"

Here's what he tweeted this morning.

"Despite requests, I have no plans to meet Iranian President Hassan Rouhani. Maybe someday in the future. I am sure he is an absolutely lovely man."

BREMMER: He'd love a summit with the Iranians.

CAMEROTA: President Trump would love a summit?

BREMMER: Absolutely.

CAMEROTA: To what end?

BREMMER: To show that he's the one guy that can actually engage with the Iranians in the same way he was with the North Koreans.

But to be clear, the Americans are much more in the driver's seat with Iran than we ever were with the North Koreans.

When we pull out of North Korea and we say we're going to hurt them -- you know, sort of really hardening any discussions -- the Chinese are the ones that are providing all of the economics and support.

In the case of Iran, we pull out of the Iranian nuclear deal by ourselves -- and even though every other country -- every other country in the deal wants us to stay, they can't maintain their business with Iran because of our secondary sanctions. They really matter.

Even the Chinese have reduced their purchasing of Iranian crude as a consequence of American sanctions. They're working behind the scenes with us right now to say hey, can we get some waivers because we really don't want to get hurt by you guys.

The Iranians are now going to be down in November over a million barrels a day of production. Their economy is going to be in desperate recession and this is a real problem for the president. The hardliners in Iran are going to be winning.

So I don't expect to see a meeting between Trump and Rouhani on the sidelines this week, and I'd be really surprised to see movement to the near-term towards a summit.

BERMAN: Very quickly, the president speaks at about 10:15 today.

BREMMER: Yes.

BERMAN: What do you think one year later from Little Rocket Man? What do you think the rest of the world thinks of this president as he takes that stage?

BREMMER: Look, the rest of the world is not very happy about Trump, generally speaking, because he's a unilateralist, because he does a lot of things that they don't like on the Paris Climate Accord and on Iran and all the rest. And when he speaks at the U.N. that becomes very obvious. This is not sort of a uniter over the global stage.

The thing that I want everyone to watch for today -- it's not North Korea, it's not Iran, it's China --

BERMAN: Yes.

BREMMER: -- right?

I mean, he's going to have a meeting coming up at the end of November in Argentina with Xi Jinping and he has made very clear the only one who can do a deal with China is me, personally. So that's going to be the most important summit all year.

Not Putin in Helsinki, not North Koreans in Singapore. Several months later, neither of those mattered at all. Nothing actually happened.

[07:45:06] In the case of China, if that meeting goes well or badly the global markets are going to really respond. It really matters.

And so we really want to see how Trump sets that up today. What does he say about the Chinese on the stage at the U.N.?

CAMEROTA: Ian Bremmer, great to see you.

BREMMER: You, too.

BERMAN: You know what I want? I want to know what his coffee regimen is in the morning --

CAMEROTA: How much coffee do you drink?

BERMAN: -- because you come with so much energy.

BREMMER: Yes.

BERMAN: Where do you get the energy?

BREMMER: Well, I work out in the morning --

CAMEROTA: Oh, for the love of God.

BREMMER: -- and I'm sorry.

BERMAN: No one wants to hear that.

CAMEROTA: That's never going to happen here.

BERMAN: No one wants to hear that. All right, Ian Bremmer --

BREMMER: Yes, because you guys are up at like 5:00. BERMAN: Thanks for being --

CAMEROTA: Three.

BREMMER: I know.

BERMAN: So much energy.

CAMEROTA: We applaud you. Thanks for being here.

BERMAN: All right.

You're fired -- those words made famous by President Trump on "THE APPRENTICE." But if he says them to Rod Rosenstein what will the outcome of the Russia investigation be? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, time now for a CNN "Reality Check."

Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein sits down with President Trump on Thursday. He could offer to resign or perhaps he could be fired. The distinction matters a lot.

CAMEROTA: Or neither.

BERMAN: Or neither -- or neither. He could walk out with his job.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. He could get a promotion.

BERMAN: He could be promoted.

CAMEROTA: Be promoted.

BERMAN: Or he could get ice cream. All those things could happen.

CNN senior political analyst John Avlon joins us now with some of the distinctions there -- John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right.

The unlikely gold star scenario aside, rumors rocketed around Washington yesterday that Deputy Attorney Gen. Rod Rosenstein was on the chopping block. This was high octane speculation because as Rod Rosenstein goes, so goes the Russia investigation.

[07:50:12] And almost everyone was expecting a reprise of the president's favorite catchphrase.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You're fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Here's the thing. President Trump doesn't reportedly like to fire anyone directly. And with Trump away at the United Nations, it appears the deputy attorney general is safe, at least for today.

But, Rosenstein's got a Thursday morning meeting scheduled with the president and in this case there are huge implications based on whether Rosenstein resigns or gets fired.

A quick refresher. Rosenstein not only handles the day-to-day operations of the Justice Department, he's also the acting attorney general for the Russian investigation because Jeff Sessions recused himself.

It was Rosenstein's appointment of Robert Mueller that launched the Russia investigation. And most legal experts agree it is only Rosenstein who can fire Mueller to end that investigation, and we all know Trump would love nothing more.

So what happens if Rosenstein is out? Well, that depends almost entirely on this question. Did he jump or was he pushed?

Let me nerd out for a second here.

There's a law called the Federal Vacancies Reform Act of 1998 that says the president can move any of his Senate-confirmed appointees into a position that is vacant but only for 210 days. That's provided the position is open because the person holding it quote "dies, resigns or is otherwise unable to perform the functions and duties of the office." Note, it does not say fired.

The statute was designed to give the president flexibility but not to create vacancies by firing and then work around the sense advice and consent.

So if Rosenstein resigns Christmas could come early for President Trump. He would have a blank check to backfill this pivotal position -- basically anyone who has already been Senate-confirmed. There's a lot of people on that menu including Trump loyalists who could end the Russia investigation.

But, if Trump fires Rosenstein, a built-in succession plan would kick in at the Justice Department. In this case, that means Noel Francisco, the solicitor general, would take over.

Side note -- there's potential drama here, too. See, Francisco is a former partner at the law firm Jones Day, and Jones Day represents the Trump campaign in the Russia inquiry, which could represent a conflict of interest.

The bottom line, as you buckle up for a bumpy ride on Thursday, this otherwise arcane knowledge about the Federal Vacancies Reform Act can help cut you through some of the chaos.

And that's your "Reality Check".

BERMAN: The Vacancies Reform Act always helps us through chaos.

John Avlon, thanks very much.

CAMEROTA: As does your arcane knowledge --

AVLON: Oh, thank you.

CAMEROTA: -- of lots of things. Thank you, John.

AVLON: Take care, guys.

CAMEROTA: All right. So, the president celebrating a new trade deal with South Korea. Is it a good deal for U.S. consumers?

Christine Romans tells us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:56:55] CAMEROTA: OK, it's time for "CNN Money Now."

President Trump signing a revised trade agreement with South Korea, the first major trade deal he's finalized since taking office. What does this mean for all of us?

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us with more. Hi, Christine.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Hi, there, Alisyn.

Well, the president has signed his first trade deal with South Korean President Moon Jae-in on the sidelines of the U.N. Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It was a long time in coming and it's a basic redoing of the agreement that was done before, which was a very unfair agreement for the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMANS: It's really a revision, not an entirely new deal. It's meant to sell South Korea more U.S. cars, medicine, and Ag.

The U.S, last year, bought $23 billion more of South Korean goods than it sold, driven mainly by autos. Trump hates that deficit and wants South Koreans to buy more Chevys and Fords. Now, South Korea gets a break on U.S. steel tariffs.

This, just as other trade negotiations break down. China canceled planned trade talks and a senior Chinese official, overnight, said the U.S. is putting a knife to its neck, making it hard to negotiate in good faith. That knife is tariffs now on $250 billion in Chinese goods and the president has threatened another $276 billion.

It's meant to punish China for years of stealing technology and trade secrets and putting unfair barriers on U.S. business.

Now, the president, I am told Alisyn, wants nothing less than a reset of America's relationship with China -- a reset. The president is not concerned about higher prices for American consumers because of his trade taxes.

The feeling is the U.S. economy is strong, the stock market is near record highs. Now is the time for this president to crack down on China. He is not backing down -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Christine. Thank you very much for explaining all of that.

We're following a lot of news this morning so let's get right to it.

All right, good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Tuesday, September 25th, I'm told. It's 8:00 in the east. I'm also told that.

I will never take another day off. Look at how rusty I am.

BERMAN: No, you can't take a day off because everything falls apart.

CAMEROTA: So that was my fault -- what happened yesterday?

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK. Well, that's obvious.

The White House, who is facing these dual crises that cropped up yesterday -- and these are shaping up to be the most possibly consequential week of the presidency.

The future of embattled Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, the man who oversees Robert Mueller's Russia investigation, is now in limbo. What would that mean for Robert Mueller's probe?

After a day filled with drama and confusion, Rosenstein meets with President Trump in person on Thursday at the White House to learn his fate.

BERMAN: And, of course, Thursday is the day that Brett Kavanaugh will be in Washington, along with Christine Blasey Ford, who accuses him of sexual assault.

And there is a new development in the Supreme Court showdown. Moments ago, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said that President Trump is open to having the Senate hear from Deborah Ramirez. Now, Ramirez is the woman who told "The New Yorker" that Brett Kavanaugh put his genitals in her face in college, which Kavanaugh denies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS CHIEF ANCHOR: You said that everybody's voices should be heard. So does the president want Ms. Ramirez to appear before the Senate Judiciary Committee as well?

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Certainly, we would be open to that and that process could take place on Thursday. Again, the president's been clear -- let them speak. But let's also let Brett Kavanaugh speak and let's let him tell his side of the story.