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Sekulow Wants Timeout; Calls Grow for Bishop's Resignation; Trump's Consequential Week. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired September 25, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:06] JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein will meet with President Trump on Thursday. The two are expected to discuss whether Rosenstein will remain on job after "The New York Times" reported that he secretly discussed recording President Trump and talked about removing him from office on the 25th Amendment.

Why does this matter? Well, Rod Rosenstein oversees the Russia investigation. He's Bob Mueller's boss.

So joining us now to discuss, CNN legal analyst, former Watergate special prosecutor, Richard Ben-Veniste.

Richard, thanks so much for being with us.

RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure. Good morning.

BERMAN: We were talking about what happens if Rod Rosenstein goes. Jay Sekulow, who is the private attorney for President Trump, he has a notion of what he would like to see happen, and that's that there be a pause to the Russia investigation.

Listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY SEKULOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S PERSONAL ATTORNEY: I think it's really important that there be a step back taken here and a review. And I think it's a review that has to be thorough and complete. And a review that has to include an investigation of what has transpired with all of these statements and all of these allegations going back to the Strzok and Page and Bruce Ohr and basically a time-out on this inquiry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: A time-out? Is that how it works?

BEN-VENISTE: Sure. Of course they don't like the concept of the train pulling into the station. Now that Mr. Mueller has secured the cooperation of Mr. Manafort after his conviction, Mr. Cohen and others, he's in the final laps, I think, of his investigation. The American public, I believe, when they reacted to the firing of

Archibald Cox in the Saturday Night Massacre, expressed the view that I think is quite general in the land, that you don't mess with an investigation by trying to derail it at the very moment that it is picking up steam and heading toward conclusion. You can't pick the person who conducts the investigation because you don't like the way things are going.

I think getting rid of Mr. Rosenstein at this point would cause a constitutional confrontation that Mr. Trump and certainly the country don't need. And so my advice would be to allow things to proceed as they have. Mr. Rosenstein has done absolutely nothing wrong. No one can point to anything that he has done.

BERMAN: Well, look, it --

BEN-VENISTE: That has been improper.

BERMAN: If you had a guy who worked for you reportedly suggest recording a conversation that you were having for the purpose of perhaps invoking the 25th Amendment to have you removed from office, would you want that guy working for you?

[08:35:00] BEN-VENISTE: Well, first of all, the allegations have been denied by Mr. Rosenstein. You have the chief of staff, when he was secretary of Homeland Security, supposedly involved in those discussions, if they existed. I don't think he is saying that he was there talking about removing the president. And I think the facts are quite unclear about that. But certainly nothing was actually done so far as any of the reporting.

So instead of allowing this investigation to conclude a pace, as it has been, Mr. Mueller has been absolutely pure in not leaking, and doing his job, and he's doing it methodically and in a timely manner and we should allow him to conclude his investigation.

Let's remember, what we are talking about here is a foreign power interfering in our electoral process. That is of the most seriousness to the way our country operates.

BERMAN: Do you see, Richard --

BEN-VENISTE: And the assertions of influence as a result of Russian interference are getting stronger, rather than weaker.

BERMAN: Richard, do you see any similarities between what could happen if Rosenstein is pushed out in the Saturday Night Massacre?

BEN-VENISTE: Sure. I mean, you -- you have the attorney general, who is recused, and so the solicitor general, as in Watergate, would then be put in the position of supervising the investigation. And this is a person whose views are very much akin to the president's in terms of executive authority.

Not only that, but his law firm, and I have no information about him personally, but his law firm was intimately involved in representing the Trump campaign. So that's another hurdle that would have to be overcome in connection with substituting him for Mr. Rosenstein at this point.

Let the investigation conclude to its logical end. I think that's what the country ought to have. And that's what the president ought to do. He ought to be hands off, let it conclude. If he's not worried about the conclusion about the ultimate facts, let it conclude.

In Watergate, the public realized that Nixon was involved in protecting himself because he had something to hide.

BERMAN: Richard --

BEN-VENISTE: If Mr. Trump doesn't have something to hide, let it conclude to its conclusion.

BERMAN: Richard Ben-Veniste, thanks so much for being with us.

BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.

BERMAN: Really appreciate it. It's very possible Rod Rosenstein stays on the job after Thursday.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Pope Francis is making a rare admission about the priest sex abuse scandal rocking the Catholic Church amid growing calls for resignation of a high profile catholic bishop in New York. We have all of the latest for you, next.

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[08:42:13] CAMEROTA: New this morning, Pope Francis acknowledging the Catholic Church's failings in dealing with the wide spread priest sex abuse scandals. Speaking in Estonia, the pope says the crisis is driving young people away from the church and things need to change.

This comes as another high-profile U.S. catholic bishop is under fire in Buffalo, New York, and there are growing calls for Bishop Richard Malone to resign for what some are calling his lies, cover up and deceit.

CNN's Rosa Flores has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In this rust belt city with deep catholic roots, Bishop Richard Malone has been a respected member of Buffalo's Catholic community since he arrived in 2012.

BISHOP RICHARD MALONE, CATHOLIC DIOCESE OF BUFFALO: I want to begin by --

FLORES: But questioning about the bishop's integrity began to surface in March when to come clean about a dark chapter in diocese history he released the names of 42 priests who allegedly abused children. MALONE: The Diocese of Buffalo is committed to correcting the mistakes

and sins of the past.

FLORES: But a trove of secret records, first reported on by WKBW, and independently obtained by CNN, casts serious doubt on that commitment. The document suggests Malone knew or should have known the number of accused priests s was not 42, but as many as 200.

DEACON PAUL SNYDER, ST. MARY'S CHURCH IN SWORMVILLE: That's a perversion of what Jesus calls us to do.

FLORES: Buffalo businessman Paul Snyder thought highly of Malone until he learned Father Robert Yetter (ph), the priest who ordained him deacon, was an alleged predator but was kept off that public list.

SNYDER: I felt betrayed by our priest. I felt betrayed by our bishop.

FLORES: Documents obtained by CNN show the diocese learned last year that Yetter had alleged been kissing, massaging and groping several teens.

"ROGER," ALLEGED SEXUAL ASSAULT VICTIM: I want to say nine, nine years old, nine, ten, it started.

FLORES: According to this survivor, a former altar boy we'll call Roger, Father Yetter groomed him, showered him with hugs and special attention, waiting until Roger was an adult before the priest made his move.

ROGER: He ended up approaching me and kind of just, you know, whipped it out and was -- wanted oral sex.

FLORES: Roger managed to escape. When another accuser made similar allegations against Yetter last year, documents show the diocese hardly took action. Malone even thanked Yetter in a January note for his, quote, faithful and effective ministry.

Despite all this, there will likely be no legal consequences for Malone.

FLORES (on camera): In the state of New York, is it a requirement for someone, like a bishop, to report that abuse is happening?

[08:45:05] JOHN FLYNN, ERIE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Not for clergy members. Teachers, child care workers, health care workers who work for children, et cetera, et cetera, is all -- a whole list. And, believe it or not, clergy is not on that list.

FLORES (voice over): CNN requested interviews with both the bishop and Father Yetter. Neither were made available. Yetter was placed on administrative leave last month and while Malone apologized for his, quote, errors in judgement, he said he was not going anywhere.

MALONE: The shepherd does not desert the flock.

FLORES: Snyder, the prominent Buffalonian and church benefactor, was outrage and not only began withholding his generous contributions, he broke his silence and used the pulpit to call on Malone to resign.

SNYDER: I think by being silent, our Catholic Church, our diocese in Buffalo and our Catholic Church worldwide, we have suffered mightily by being silent. And we can be silent no more.

Rosa Flores, CNN, Buffalo, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: We thank Rosa for staying on that story.

A meeting that could decide the fate of the Russia probe. A hearing that could decide the fate of a Supreme Court nomination. And in just a few minutes, a major speech at the United Nations with the whole world watching. Just a small slice of this really remarkable week. We're going to get "The Bottom Line," next.

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[08:50:25] CAMEROTA: President Trump has a consequential week ahead. The fate of Rod Rosenstein hangs in the balance, his embattled Supreme Court nominee will testify after his accuser before the Senate, and a big speech at the U.N. in just about an hour.

Let's get "The Bottom Line" on all of this with CNN political director David Chalian.

David, if I had a dime for every time I read the words consequential week, OK, in the past few years, I could take both you and John to lunch. So --

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It's not that you were wrong about the other weeks, Alisyn. This is a consequential presidency. And each week feels that there are great things of consequence in play. But there is no doubt that I think when you look at the totality of the last year and a half, this is one of those pretty big weeks for Trump's presidency.

CAMEROTA: This is top five for you because, as John has pointed out, it affects every branch of government. And, by the way, the international stage today.

CHALIAN: Yes. Exactly. I mean we -- we've got a potential constitutional crisis with the oversight of the Mueller probe, if a president whose being investigated somehow meddles in a way to tinker with the investigators and the investigation in some way. That -- that would be a huge problem. So we wait to see the outcome of that Thursday meeting with Rod Rosenstein.

We know that the thing that President Trump has cited that we've seen in polling, that we know to be true from his promises on the campaign trail and the reaction from crowds, the thing that unifies the Republican Party like nothing else in the Trump era is changing the direction of the Supreme Court and putting on conservative justices. That now hangs in the very balance in Trump's presence here. And as you said, you're talking about nuclear capabilities with North

Korea and seeing, you know, if we're in a new era with no testing and an actual ratcheting down and an actual promise to rid the peninsula of nuclear weapons, I think that -- or nuclear capability, I think that that is obviously of great importance. This all is happening in a 48-hour span here.

CAMEROTA: That's a compelling case.

BERMAN: He does make a compelling case. This is a consequential week, as you say.

CAMEROTA: It really is.

BERMAN: Look, the bottom line here -- and that's the title of this segment, David -- is that I do think we see the parameters of this Supreme Court battle. And I think that it's glaring how epic it is, because on the one hand you have the Democrats, they're -- they're not going to give up. They're not going to give up this argument. Yes, they may have legitimate questions about -- about what Brett Kavanaugh did in his past, and that's disqualifying, to be a Supreme Court justice. But why would they give up after what happened to Merrick Garland?

And on the Republican side, you have them -- and you pointed out -- that one of the main reasons Donald Trump won was his (INAUDIBLE) to the conservative cause for conservative Supreme Court justices, and that is so important to them and they're not about to give that up. And if they bail on Kavanaugh now, that could be in jeopardy. So you have these two intractable forces that I don't think are going to budge.

CHALIAN: Yes. And, John, I think your point also sort of lays out, this is no longer about somebody's qualifications for the court. I just think we're in a new era of these battle royals of Supreme Court confirmations, where it is this knockdown, drag out fight between the parties, win at all costs because the win itself matters.

Obviously, there's real world impact on how the court is shaped. But this seems to be less about that and more about digging in so much and not giving an inch. There's nothing where you see the parties trying to work together to some way of bringing the country around elevating someone to the highest court of the land. That is not happening at all.

CAMEROTA: David, in terms of Rod Rosenstein's fate, we have some new reporting from Jeff Zeleny, but it also seems that the president truly does not know what he plans to do on Thursday. I mean it sounds, if we take the president at his word, that he wants to get all the facts. I think that he said this to Geraldo yesterday, and he's going to, I think, have a heart to heart with Rod Rosenstein. I don't think that, as we sit here, we know what will happen Thursday.

CHALIAN: Yes. And we know that Sarah Sanders, the White House press secretary, this morning described their conversation yesterday as a -- they had a lengthy conversation. She also called it a good conversation and one where they really had agreed to continue it when he was back in Washington. I think that supports the notion that the president may not know how he wants to proceed here.

We do know, obviously, that many conservatives on The Hill, and his Fox News allies, like Sean Hannity, have really cautioned here for him to be very careful about getting rid of Rod Rosenstein, that that could really up end things for the president in a not advantageous way as it comes to this investigation. But I -- but I do think that the lengthy conversation that was described by the press secretary and the fact that another one's coming, I've never seen the president sort of publically muse in that way if he knew indeed where he wanted to end up.

[08:55:12] BERMAN: He just doesn't like to fire people in person. You know, so maybe that means Rosenstein stays, which could mean we have a Jeff Sessions and/or Rex Tillerson level of awkwardness in the administration for some time to come.

David, that is "The Bottom Line." Thanks very much.

CHALIAN: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: "The Good Stuff" is next.

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BERMAN: It is time now "The Good Stuff."

A community in southwest Ohio bands together to celebrate Christmas early in honor of two-year-old Brody Allen. More than 1,000 people gathered Sunday for a parade to honor the terminally ill boy who has tumors on his brain and spine. Brody is not expected to make it through Christmas, so Christmas came to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're grateful to everyone for coming out and just giving our family this huge hug.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Brody, of course, was the events grand marshal. I've got to say, so nice of that town to come together and give that young man a moment of joy.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, what an amazing town. I mean that everybody came together and dressed up. That is beautiful! What a community. I'm glad that we just highlighted them.

[09:00:06] All right, time now for CNN "NEWSROOM" with Jim Sciutto.

And we'll see you tomorrow.